197 replies to this topic

[TianZi]

Differences between D2 and D3 as described in the article are easily confirmed by researching this on the internet, as I'm sure you'll agree if you do so.

d2 raises serum 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D exactly the same as d3... only difference is d3 keeps serum levels elevated for 2 weeks after supplementation is stopped, wheres as d2 produces a rapid decrease.
http://www.nutraingr...-ergocalciferol

although i would recommend sticking with d3

the high calcium + D thing was discussed in the supplement forum, and generally agreed that this was probably due more to the high amounts of calcium rather than vitamin D. you cant look at a study like this that uses multiple nutrients and doesnt keep proper controls & make the assumption that it must be the vitamin D causing the problem. the proper form of supplemental calcium, adequate amounts of resistance exercise, k2, magnesium & other nutrients are needed as well to make sure calcium is deposited into bones and not into soft tissue.


there are referenced levels for serum D... most people are brought into optimal levels by 1000iu daily, as confirmed by blood tests. the key is confirming through bloodwork what amount of supplementation brings you within desires levels.

I believe you are agreeing that D3 is much more potent than D2, which was the point being made in the article.

An increasing number of experts are concerned about some negatives associated with Vitamin D supplementation at non-toxic levels, although there doesn't yet seem to be a consensus. It seems that calcium deposits on soft tissues, and problems resulting therefrom, tops this list. Although a recent study concluded such deposits in the heart don't seem to lead to increased risk of adverse incidents such as heart attacks, the Duke / UNC study regarding lesions on the brain is disturbing. I'm not sure what other studies are floating about regarding calcium deposits on soft tissue resulting from Vitamin D ingestion, as this is largely a non-issue for me.

It would seem most logical at this point to keep an open mind on this issue and consider obtaining more of your Vitamin D needs from sunlight (without burning), and less from supplementation. The best we can do is make an informed decision based on the facts available.

[ajnast4r]

I believe you are agreeing that D3 is much more potent than D2, which was the point being made in the article.

i didnt say that... i like d3 because its cheaper and more natural. but d2 is a viable option if you so choose it

It seems that calcium deposits on soft tissues, and problems resulting therefrom, tops this list. Although a recent study concluded such deposits in the heart don't seem to lead to increased risk of adverse incidents such as heart attacks, the Duke / UNC study regarding lesions on the brain is disturbing.

i mean did you just completely ignore what i said or what?


this debate is going nowhere, and is starting to hijack this thread. theres an active thread on vitamin D going on in the supplement forum, so lets continue this there.

Edited by ajnast4r, 15 January 2008 - 02:28 PM.

[TianZi]

I believe you are agreeing that D3 is much more potent than D2, which was the point being made in the article.

i didnt say that... i like d3 because its cheaper and more natural. but d2 is a viable option if you so choose it

It seems that calcium deposits on soft tissues, and problems resulting therefrom, tops this list. Although a recent study concluded such deposits in the heart don't seem to lead to increased risk of adverse incidents such as heart attacks, the Duke / UNC study regarding lesions on the brain is disturbing.

i mean did you just completely ignore what i said or what?


this debate is going nowhere, and is starting to hijack this thread. theres an active thread on vitamin D going on in the supplement forum, so lets continue this there.

The article you cited leads to a website run by a "captive" news media organization servicing the supplement industry. The study mentioned in the article is certainly interesting, but, if the conclusions reached in that study were correctly represented in the article, such conclusions at present seem to directly conflict with years of research and many earlier studies comparing D2 and D3.

Most importantly, that study apparently did not measure against ingested D2 the potency / effectiveness of self-produced Vitamin D3 following exposure to the sun, which I've argued, as supported by the opinions of experts, is the best source of Vitamin D (assuming the availability of sufficiently "bright" sunlight, and provided you don't burn youself in the process). Levels of ingested D2 and D3 do not self-regulate as do levels of self-produced D3.

The topic I've been discussing here is directly relevant to the pros and cons of using skin care products containing some form of sun block, which is consistently discussed in this thread. What had been missing from this thread was any discussion as to whether use of such products on a daily basis in an effort to protect the cosmetic appearance of the skin may lead to far more serious health risks than they prevent. The BBC, Reuters, Associated Press, NBC News, etc. articles linked in my first post in this thread directly address this issue, especially when read as a whole.

With that said, I believe this topic would be best served by its own thread on this forum, since it has grown beyond the bounds I'd anticipated. If an administrator would be so kind as to move my posts in this thread and the replies to them to a new thread entitled "Limited Regular Unprotected Sun Exposure May Be Essential to Long-Term Good Health", I'd be obliged. Otherwise, we can continue the discussion here.

Edited by TianZi, 16 January 2008 - 02:01 PM.

[Eva Victoria]

Hi all,

I realize this has been touched upon in many different threads, but I thought it'd be useful to overview some of the anti-aging supplements that improve skin in one thread. Here are some that come to mind:

1. silicon: increases skin elasticity on a dose of of 1-3g; also improves hair and nail thickness
2. oral isotretinoin: on a low dose (e.g., 5-15 mg a day) improves skin texture, reduces pore size, "minimizes" wrinkles; also used for acne and neoplastic disorders (e.g., sebacious hyperplasia) -- during intake skin is more sensitive to sun, however!

"minimizes" wrinkles? I would love to see this report!!!
It is only used in the treatement of Nodular Acne (and Acne in Rosacea!) Has horrible side effects!!! It only inhibits/shuts down the oil producing glands in the skin permanently. And hence wrinkles have nothing to do with oil-production of the skin I do not see the connection!
PLS READ THIS!
http://www.rocheusa....accutane/pi.pdf
http://www.fda.gov/c...opage/accutane/

3. retin-a: shown to reverse signs of photoaging when used topically; won't see results for 4-6 months though -- downside is that it makes skin more photosensitive, however!
4. forskolin: an oral dose will increase production of melatonin, thus preventing sunburn (does this protect the skin from UVA though??)
5. green tea and glisodin: both may protect against UVA damage

WRONG! White-tea has protecting abilities against UVB induced Erythema. Green-tea has healing properties of already burnt skin.

6. caffeine and aerobic exercise: may protect against UVA damage
No clinical trials to back up this statement.

ANY OTHER SUPPLEMENTS/SUGGESTIONS? Also, any supplements that improve wound healing or collagen production?

Finally while we're at it here are some laser/surgical treatments (minimally invasive and "permanent"):
1. Smoothbeam laser: 3-4 treatments slightly remove/reduce wrinkels and scars by stimulating collagen production; also removes acne long-term (e.g., 6-12 months)
2. Fraxel laser: 3-4 treatments remove/reduce wrinkles, scars by 50% (more effective than smoothbeam); may also remove acne

Best,
efosse

[Eva Victoria]

Retinol gets converted into skin to retinaldehyde and from that to all-trans retinoic acid (tretinoin). So retinol is MUCH much weaker than the prescription tretinoin against photoaging. Skip the expensive and unreliable commercial retinol and go for the prescription retinoids like Retin-A and Tazorac/Avage (tazarotene).

Retinoids increase collagen, repairs photodamage, evens out skin tone and can even protect against further wrinkling.

But a sunscreen protects better against wrinkling than a prescription retinoid. Best thing is to use both. Prevent with sunscreen and repair the daily damage that got through with a retinoid nightly.

Fredrik, I think this is good advice. I would caution that for some people, particularly fair skinned types, tretinoin may cause inflammation and can induce an eczema condition.

The retinoid induced dermatitis is only transient. When the skin is retinized no redness is visible, unless you up the dose or frequency again. Tretinoin does not induce inflammation in the dermal layer, on the contrary the retinoids are anti-inflammatory.

Tretinoin inhibits AP-1, a MMP promoter. The MMPs (collagenase, elastase) degrade the skin and the imperfect repair that ensues causes microscarring, also called wrinkles. So tretinoin inhibits the enzymatic degradation of healthy collagen.

When you start using a retinoid, go slowly, with the weakest one every third day. Just a pea-size glob of cream 20-30 minutes after washing (to decrease absorption). After 6-8 weeks when no redness or flaking is visible you can start using it every other day.

I have used tretinoin for the past 10 years and none of the other unproven anti-aging topicals comes near it in efficiency. Retinoids minimizes pores, evens out skin tone, prevents wrinkles and sagging and makes skin soft and plump. It´s the best thing anyone can do for their face, after sunscreen.

Hi Fredrik!
Like your answers but here I have to contradict you :(
"When the skin is retinized no redness is visible, unless you up the dose or frequency again."
Is actually not correct. It can actually redden your skin even after many years of usage of the same strenght. And it is not recommended for people with history of Eczema either :(

Otherwise I agree with you it is the nr 1 miracle drug after sunscreens!

[donjoe]

[Moved post to more appropriate thread.]

Edited by donjoe, 08 February 2008 - 08:15 AM.

[mitkat]

I am not a vegetarian. Anyway, this vegan probably gets enough protein. Mac Danzig is also probably top 20 in the world in MMA in the 155 pound division.


http://video.google....8...h&plindex=1

On his website it says: "Mac places a rear naked choke early in the first round on Tommy Speer to become the TUF6 CHAMPION!!!!" I don´t know what a REAR NAKED CHOKE is but it sounds both terrifying and vaguely exciting at the same time.

And he´s too muscly (so you can exhale now Mitkat, I still think you´re cuter ) but at least this fighting guy is a vegan and that´s HOT!

http://www.macdanzig.net/

YES! LOL How did I miss this??

[wydell]

So if you guys are interested in Mac Danzig, he is fighting tomorrow on TV ( on the U.S. Cable Station SPIKE - show starts at 8PM EST, though that fight will either be the last or next to last fight of the show). He is fighting against a tough opponent - Clay Guida.

Since I am heterosexual, I am kind of interested in the fight for the fighting per se. But hey, I recognize that folks have other interests.

I am not a vegetarian. Anyway, this vegan probably gets enough protein. Mac Danzig is also probably top 20 in the world in MMA in the 155 pound division.


http://video.google....8...h&plindex=1

On his website it says: "Mac places a rear naked choke early in the first round on Tommy Speer to become the TUF6 CHAMPION!!!!" I don´t know what a REAR NAKED CHOKE is but it sounds both terrifying and vaguely exciting at the same time.

And he´s too muscly (so you can exhale now Mitkat, I still think you´re cuter ) but at least this fighting guy is a vegan and that´s HOT!

http://www.macdanzig.net/

YES! LOL How did I miss this??

Edited by wydell, 17 September 2008 - 05:32 AM.

[Ben]

Since I am heterosexual, I am kind of interested in the fight for the fighting per se. But hey, I recognize that folks have other interests.

As I hetrosexual myself I find it difficult to watch the UFC. It looks so much like gay porn.

I'm glad you enjoy it though for the... ah... fighting

More of a boxing man myself the guys don't grope and rub each other up in that sport. Though, once again, each to his own.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 18 September 2008 - 01:17 PM.

[Fredrik]

Since I am heterosexual, I am kind of interested in the fight for the fighting per se. But hey, I recognize that folks have other interests.

As I hetrosexual myself I find it difficult to watch the UFC. It looks so much like gay porn.

I'm glad you enjoy it though for the... ah... fighting

More of a boxing man myself the guys don't grope and rub each other up in that sport. Though, once again, each to his own.

Wasn´t wrestling originally invented by the ancient greeks just so that men could grope and rub against each other? I think it became a sport after. When beer is involved, some drunk guys get so cuddly and wants to wrestle, I think it´s in our nature to hug.

Straight men are so cute sometimes, trying to balance their perception of being "manly" with the need for intimacy between men. It seems easier for women, correct me if I´m wrong, they can be much more physically close without "fear" of any sexual innuendos. Women don´t have to get drunk and wrestle, if they absolutely don´t want to that is.

Edited by Fredrik, 18 September 2008 - 03:42 PM.

[Juicy]

This thread was amazing. I would like to see a update on what Frederik and his followers are using currently I am sure things changed since 2008. I would like to know what people think about

 

GHK-Copper Peptides

Matrxyl 3000

Sirtuin

EGF

[Qowpel]

This thread was amazing. I would like to see a update on what Frederik and his followers are using currently I am sure things changed since 2008. I would like to know what people think about

 

GHK-Copper Peptides

Matrxyl 3000

Sirtuin

EGF

I can say that hyaluronic acid certainly has effects (oral at least 100 mg a day)....

Using topical coconut oil daily topically before going to bed has seemed to keep my skin almost permanently moisturizedand it is extremely cheap.

 

Floraglo lutein at least 20 mg a day increase skin hydration by roughly 56%

pycnogenol always seems to improve my skin a bit

great lakes gelatin makes the skin appear a bit better too.

WHITE TEA AND GREEN TEA AT ABOUT 6 cups a day. Cheap and noticeable results but only if diet is low un glycation in my experience......

r lipoic acid at least 100 mg a day helps as well.

 

 

Most oticeable resuts here though? All of thoe together REALLY help the ski out AND do NOT forget to increase magnesium AND manganese intake as these two are VERY much needed for the synthesis of hyaluronic acid......

 

Seriously though try out cocnut oil topically it is DIRT cheap and I think the reason it has imroved my skin is because of the Monolaurin in it. It is super cheap as well and will last you literally years from one jar. It is fantastic at removing sunscreen as well.

 

Make sure you are using biosil buddy, that has some science behind it nd always improves my skin a bit. All of the above together, for me turn the clock back about 3 - 4 years. Nice huh.

 

Make sure you also are using Skinceuticals ce ferulic serum. reat stuff with science to back it. A great preventative. Keep in mind to use sunscreen everyday as NONE of these supplements would EVER come close to making up for the sun's rays each day on your skin....

 

Lastly, try  using tomato paste at 5 teaspoons a day with 10 grams of olive oil every day. This stuff is great because it increases your natural sun protection a bit AND increases procollagen levels in the skin. Also gives a subtle "tan"........use of this with some beta carotene gives you a natural year round glowy tan if you keep at it.

 

Good luck man

[Juicy]

Skinceuticals CE  + F Acid.. is expensive.. Do it yourself man

 

" 

Key Ingredient 1

15% L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C): Neutralizes damaging free radicals and protects against oxidative stress.

Key Ingredient 2

1% alpha tocopherol (vitamin E): Neutralizes free radicals and replenishes skin’s lipids.

Key Ingredient 3

0.5% Ferulic acid: This plant-based antioxidant neutralizes free radicals.

 

"

 

There you go!

[bosharpe]

 

This thread was amazing. I would like to see a update on what Frederik and his followers are using currently I am sure things changed since 2008. I would like to know what people think about

 

GHK-Copper Peptides

Matrxyl 3000

Sirtuin

EGF

I can say that hyaluronic acid certainly has effects (oral at least 100 mg a day)....

Using topical coconut oil daily topically before going to bed has seemed to keep my skin almost permanently moisturizedand it is extremely cheap.

 

Floraglo lutein at least 20 mg a day increase skin hydration by roughly 56%

pycnogenol always seems to improve my skin a bit

great lakes gelatin makes the skin appear a bit better too.

WHITE TEA AND GREEN TEA AT ABOUT 6 cups a day. Cheap and noticeable results but only if diet is low un glycation in my experience......

r lipoic acid at least 100 mg a day helps as well.

 

 

Most oticeable resuts here though? All of thoe together REALLY help the ski out AND do NOT forget to increase magnesium AND manganese intake as these two are VERY much needed for the synthesis of hyaluronic acid......

 

Seriously though try out cocnut oil topically it is DIRT cheap and I think the reason it has imroved my skin is because of the Monolaurin in it. It is super cheap as well and will last you literally years from one jar. It is fantastic at removing sunscreen as well.

 

Make sure you are using biosil buddy, that has some science behind it nd always improves my skin a bit. All of the above together, for me turn the clock back about 3 - 4 years. Nice huh.

 

Make sure you also are using Skinceuticals ce ferulic serum. reat stuff with science to back it. A great preventative. Keep in mind to use sunscreen everyday as NONE of these supplements would EVER come close to making up for the sun's rays each day on your skin....

 

Lastly, try  using tomato paste at 5 teaspoons a day with 10 grams of olive oil every day. This stuff is great because it increases your natural sun protection a bit AND increases procollagen levels in the skin. Also gives a subtle "tan"........use of this with some beta carotene gives you a natural year round glowy tan if you keep at it.

 

Good luck man

 

I usually add Garlic puree (about a teaspoon) and mix it up with the Tomato paste and oil. It tastes like Pizza base or pesto or something. Really good with eggs in the morning.

 

Qowpel - Have you ever take L Carnosine for glycation? Or C60 oo?

 

Skinceuticals CE  + F Acid.. is expensive.. Do it yourself man

 

" 

Key Ingredient 1

15% L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C): Neutralizes damaging free radicals and protects against oxidative stress.

Key Ingredient 2

1% alpha tocopherol (vitamin E): Neutralizes free radicals and replenishes skin’s lipids.

Key Ingredient 3

0.5% Ferulic acid: This plant-based antioxidant neutralizes free radicals.

 

"

 

There you go!

I'm about to diy this myself. bought the lotion crafter CE Ferulic kit from their website. They claim it's the same recipe as the  Skinceuticals  brand.

[mustardseed41]

 

 

This thread was amazing. I would like to see a update on what Frederik and his followers are using currently I am sure things changed since 2008. I would like to know what people think about

 

GHK-Copper Peptides

Matrxyl 3000

Sirtuin

EGF

I can say that hyaluronic acid certainly has effects (oral at least 100 mg a day)....

Using topical coconut oil daily topically before going to bed has seemed to keep my skin almost permanently moisturizedand it is extremely cheap.

 

Floraglo lutein at least 20 mg a day increase skin hydration by roughly 56%

pycnogenol always seems to improve my skin a bit

great lakes gelatin makes the skin appear a bit better too.

WHITE TEA AND GREEN TEA AT ABOUT 6 cups a day. Cheap and noticeable results but only if diet is low un glycation in my experience......

r lipoic acid at least 100 mg a day helps as well.

 

 

Most oticeable resuts here though? All of thoe together REALLY help the ski out AND do NOT forget to increase magnesium AND manganese intake as these two are VERY much needed for the synthesis of hyaluronic acid......

 

Seriously though try out cocnut oil topically it is DIRT cheap and I think the reason it has imroved my skin is because of the Monolaurin in it. It is super cheap as well and will last you literally years from one jar. It is fantastic at removing sunscreen as well.

 

Make sure you are using biosil buddy, that has some science behind it nd always improves my skin a bit. All of the above together, for me turn the clock back about 3 - 4 years. Nice huh.

 

Make sure you also are using Skinceuticals ce ferulic serum. reat stuff with science to back it. A great preventative. Keep in mind to use sunscreen everyday as NONE of these supplements would EVER come close to making up for the sun's rays each day on your skin....

 

Lastly, try  using tomato paste at 5 teaspoons a day with 10 grams of olive oil every day. This stuff is great because it increases your natural sun protection a bit AND increases procollagen levels in the skin. Also gives a subtle "tan"........use of this with some beta carotene gives you a natural year round glowy tan if you keep at it.

 

Good luck man

 

I usually add Garlic puree (about a teaspoon) and mix it up with the Tomato paste and oil. It tastes like Pizza base or pesto or something. Really good with eggs in the morning.

 

Qowpel - Have you ever take L Carnosine for glycation? Or C60 oo?

 

Skinceuticals CE  + F Acid.. is expensive.. Do it yourself man

 

" 

Key Ingredient 1

15% L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C): Neutralizes damaging free radicals and protects against oxidative stress.

Key Ingredient 2

1% alpha tocopherol (vitamin E): Neutralizes free radicals and replenishes skin’s lipids.

Key Ingredient 3

0.5% Ferulic acid: This plant-based antioxidant neutralizes free radicals.

 

"

 

There you go!

I'm about to diy this myself. bought the lotion crafter CE Ferulic kit from their website. They claim it's the same recipe as the  Skinceuticals  brand.

 

 

I've used that kit a few times. Good stuff.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

My eyewateringly expensive dermatologist recommends only Skinceauticals vitamin C, Retin A, and an eye cream from an obscure European brand (for dark circles). She is also hot on collagen taken orally apparently it DOES make it through to the skin. Get it from bone broth, collagen drinks (expensive and you need a fair amount), collagen capsules or I've just bought protein/collagen shakes to have for breakfast. She also recommends physical sunscreens (Jan Marini and Skinceauticals)

Then there's beta carotene to give your skin a nice colour, hyuralonic acid taken as a supplement/drinks and I've just bought some DMAE which I'll be interested to see if it works. I've tried every cream known to man and none made a difference apart from Retin a.

[aribadabar]

 I've tried every cream known to man and none made a difference apart from Retin a.

 

Have you tried the MitoQ serum?

[re_mute]

My eyewateringly expensive dermatologist recommends only Skinceauticals vitamin C, Retin A, and an eye cream from an obscure European brand (for dark circles). She is also hot on collagen taken orally apparently it DOES make it through to the skin. Get it from bone broth, collagen drinks (expensive and you need a fair amount), collagen capsules or I've just bought protein/collagen shakes to have for breakfast. She also recommends physical sunscreens (Jan Marini and Skinceauticals)

Then there's beta carotene to give your skin a nice colour, hyuralonic acid taken as a supplement/drinks and I've just bought some DMAE which I'll be interested to see if it works. I've tried every cream known to man and none made a difference apart from Retin a.

 "and an eye cream from an obscure European brand (for dark circles). "

 

do you happen to remember the name of the brand?