280 replies to this topic

[krillin]

I wouldn't feel quite as safe taking animal feed purchased from some guy on ebay vs. a regular supplement purchased from iherb.

Especially since they're selling it in ziplock bags.

[niner]

Especially since they're selling it in ziplock bags.

I just bought 200 grams of synthetic resveratrol that came in a ziploc bag.

[malbecman]

Hmm, pretty intriguing, actually. As a former card-carrying toxicologist most of the tox. studies shown in the Epicor pdf look very thorough and safe (as much as one can believe self-published studies from a company). I'd love to see more in vivo human stuff although I'm sure that will be coming and I see no reason not to start supplementing this now if someone was so inclined.....

[malbecman]

Best price for Epicor seems to be Swansons Health Products (there is a list of suppliers on the Embria web link provided by nameless).

http://www.swansonvi...e=../lnd/EpiCor

You get 30X500mg capsules for $9.99 There is also some testimony and pics from the Diamond V mill employees.

Many of the other suppliers on the Embria supplier list are asking like $50-60 for 60 capsules!!!!

[malbecman]

Hey inawe,

I could not pull up the reference you posted on Pubmed by the authors or title. Do you have any more info on it??

I could only find 1 paper published in a peer reviewed magazine, which I posted earlier in this thread.

Edit:

Ok, I found it on the Elsevier website. Still not sure why I could not pull it up on Pubmed but I got the PDF now so I"m happy....

[kdelucero]

Check out Dr. David G. Williams' article in Alternatives for the Health Conscious Individual, September 2007 issue. He has researched the animal form called Diamond V XPC or Diamond V XPC Green / Organic version. He claims there's no reason to pay the big $ for Epicor when the animal version is virtually the same, maybe a bit less potent.

I started taking the Diamond V XPC about two weeks ago, orally, not snorted. No ill effects...curious to see if I get thru the winter with fewer or no colds or illness.

Diamond V is a bit harder to get ahold of and is only sold in 50# bags, so Ebay has become a good place for people who have access to the yeast supplement to sell in smaller quantities. I actually purchased some in pharmaceutal grade bottles with child proof lids, not zip locs like someone mentioned below.

[resveratrol]

He claims there's no reason to pay the big $ for Epicor when the animal version is virtually the same, maybe a bit less potent.

From watching the video, it appears they specially tweaked Epicor as a supplement for human consumption.

Given that it's fairly cheap already, and taking animal feed seems a bit inconvenient (and as you state, Diamond V XPC is harder to get a hold of), and there may be important differences between Epicor and Diamond V XPC, I think I'll prefer the Epicor form unless I'm given a good reason not to.

[maxwatt]

It's likely any brewer's yeast powder would be equally effective, no?

[krillin]

I actually purchased some in pharmaceutal grade bottles with child proof lids, not zip locs like someone mentioned below.

Were they sealed by the manufacturer? If not, you have no way of knowing what you're buying.

[tbow]

So does anyone know who carries the animal product diamond V XPC? Can you get it from any veterian? Having been in the ranching business for previous years I am having diffulculty in finding this now that i have moved to a new area.

[browser]

I actually purchased some in pharmaceutal grade bottles with child proof lids, not zip locs like someone mentioned below.

Were they sealed by the manufacturer? If not, you have no way of knowing what you're buying.

Well, I took the punge and bought 5 pounds via eBay from Ft. Collins, item #220163472395. I like the fact that this is coming from Ft. Collins, CO. That's an agricultural / livestock area. Heavy on organic farming and livestock. Yes, it's possible I'm going to receive 5 pounds of dirt, but since the stuff is cheap animal feed, why go through the bother? I plan to take about 1 tsp mixed into my morning juice. I know what yeast tastes like and I'll expect this to smell and taste like yeast plus grain and molasses. I suspect I'm taking a lot less risk here than I was when I was eating Chinese gogi berries right out of the sealed package. I have only had the flu once in my life (about 7 years ago) and rarely get colds. Because schools and hospitals are being closed down and disinfected in my area because of outbreaks and even deaths from MRSA (a junior high school student recently caught the flu and had undetected MRSA, which resulted in going from being full of vim and vigor to dead in one day from pneumonia), I think eating this stuff is worth a shot.

[browser]

So does anyone know who carries the animal product diamond V XPC? Can you get it from any veterian? Having been in the ranching business for previous years I am having diffulculty in finding this now that i have moved to a new area. 

P.O. Box 74570, Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52407-4570
Phone:(800)373-7234
email:diamondv@diamondv.com
www.diamondv.com

www.diamondv.com/products/profiles/Product_Profile_XPC_6-06.pdf

[browser]

I took my first teaspoon full of the V XPC and I am still alive. I expected a different taste than what I got (just put the teaspoon full into my mouth). My first reaction was salty sawdust. It took a while to chew the stuff and get it down. I had expected it to taste and have a mouth feel of yeast. I thought about the statement "you don't really know what you're getting" and then I started to taste the molasses and remembered that this was fermented grain, including the ferment. Obviously grain isn't going to melt in your mouth. I could detect nuances of different grains. Considering how much trouble I had getting into the jar, it being taped shut, taped over then shrink wrapped, I /might not/ be getting the real thing but the packaging definitely makes me want to think otherwise. I do wonder how Diamond feels about the seller reproducing it's label and placing it on the bottle.

[browser]

I am convinced I got the real thing from the guy in Ft. Collins, CO. via eBay and despite the nasty taste that I haven't found a way to disguise, I'm happy to have this stuff. I took my first dose yesterday afternoon, a heaping teaspoon of the stuff all by itself. I threw caution to the wind and mixed a larger amount into my evening meal. I've got two things to report. First, the growth of my beard (I'm clean shaven) increased tremendously. I had to spend lots of extra time shaving this morning. I've noticed this sort of thing before when I've taken maybe 5 grams of LEF RNA powder the day before. The second thing is a bit more delicate to convey here in this open forum. Let's just say it has to do with a chronic infection many males are prone to. I'm looking forward to seeing the doctor and having my PSA checked. It's been elevated for years (tests for cancer all come back negative), and treatment with 6 different antibiotics and anti-fungals both alone and in tandem only helped the situation a little so the doctor had given up on treating me with pills and I'm not interested in invasive techniques. What a surprise I woke up to this morning! Obviously I'm now taking the stuff in tablespoon quantities for the time being, something which would be a bit hard to do if I had bought capsules of Epicor. I know that people are always worried about taking too much selenium. But if one looks at the amount of selenium in this stuff reported by Diamond, one would have to eat about 1/2 a pound a day to start getting near toxic selenium levels.

BTW, I've been taking many supplements for years. Supplements such as Kyolic 1,000 mg. tablets, LEF mix tablets, pine bark extract capsules. About the only thing I haven't started yet is resveratrol. I'm waiting for market forces to make resveratrol a lot cheaper and for people to figure out exactly how to take it. All the experiments and debate I've read on ImmInst about vodka, peg, slurries, with and without quercetin don't inspire confidence in me that we really know enough about how to take this stuff yet and I have better things to do than to relive my college and grad school organic chemistry lab exercises in my kitchen.

With immune system enhancement one of the big areas of study and enthusiasm in the life extension/life enhancement community, I'm not worried whether or not Diamond will get a cease and desist against the people reselling their product to humans or copying its label to put on the containers. By the time my 5 pounds are gone, there will probably be a slew of even more exciting products available. My LDN runs out in a week. Excellent timing.

[Mind]

thanks for the update browser. Always good to hear first hand reports about the all around experience.

[tintinet]

The Ebay seller states Epicor's dose of 500 mg per day is 1/8th tsp., so why are you taking a full teaspoon?

[inawe]

The Ebay seller states Epicor's dose of 500 mg per day is 1/8th tsp., so why are you taking a full teaspoon?

.

It's not Epicor. He's taking Diamond V XPC which is an animal feed. This reminds me of something I read some time ago.
In a dairy farm (I think it was in Scotland) a guy was eating animal feed. Turns out it contained cow's hormones and one day he was raped by a bull.

[tintinet]

I know he's taking Diamond V XPC, acquired via Ebay. My question remains: if the recommended dose of Epicor (identical to Diamond V XPC, no?) is 500 mg or 1/8 tsp. per day, why is browser taking a full teaspoon at a time?

[rabagley]

if the recommended dose of Epicor (identical to Diamond V XPC, no?)

Not identical. Epicor is described as a concentration of Diamond V XPC. So a quadrupling (or more) of dose seems fairly reasonable.

[browser]

I know he's taking Diamond V XPC, acquired via Ebay. My question remains: if the recommended dose of Epicor (identical to Diamond V XPC, no?) is 500 mg or 1/8 tsp. per day, why is browser taking a full teaspoon at a time?

Because studies show it to not be toxic.


I happened to have had a chronic male infection which did not respond to conventional treatment (which is typical, actually). The study on Epicor, which I believe to be nothing but V XPC, show it to be in itself anti-bacterial (but had no effect on MRSA), anti-fungal and anti-viral, etc.. The trace elements are low enough that I can't get toxicity by taking it in higher quantities unless I get to taking a 1/2 pound a day.

I take LEF Mix Tablets. They contain many times the government guideline RDAs on many things and contains things for which there are no RDAs (though in doses much lower than people take when they target one of these supplements specifically). I really doubt that this stuff works like Low Dose Naltrexone, where one must take a specific low dose in order to gain the immune system balance intended.

Hell, man, this is food. Look at how many people here are taking resveratrol in quantities found in an vat of wine. Now if this were something like R-ALA, Carnosine or ALCAR, I'd be very careful on the dosing, starting at 1/4 of the maintenance dose and working up to the generally advised dosage. Obviously resveratrol is an isolate, so if I took it as in isolation, I'd follow the accepted scale up from rats to humans.

There is no RDA for RNA yet Benjamin Frank, MD did some very significant experiments and make some significant treatments with high doses of RNA and vegetable juices. I don't have a Uric Acid problem so I took large doses as Dr. Frank prescribed many times over the years. The result is a body, face, energy level, level of health and attitude that fool everyone, including my doctor, about what my chronological age really is. While my mother and father (I'm an only child) were doctoring because of heart, insulin and other problems, except for a broken finger and septum (from fending off a mugger) and the chronic infection in my medical history, I don't have any of the problems people half my age are doctoring for. BTW, both the broken finger and nasal surgery healed in record time. Not record time for someone in that age group, record time period.

Further, I am a long term practitioner of the Transcendental Meditation Technique. I have developed a keen sense of what agrees with me and what doesn't. Despite the taste which I've finally learned to mask with grapefruit juice (I take no drugs except the LDN which is running out this week and glucophage (for life extension purposes), this stuff agrees with me.

BTW, I'm not taking a teaspoon of V XPC a day. I'm taking tablespoons full of it several times a day. Eventually I'll probably cut back but for now I'm on a mission. All the symptoms point in the direction that my next blood work will show my PSA within normal range, for the first time in a decade.

I suspect the "recommended" dosage of Epicor of 500 mg. a day is because commercial interests want this their product to have a "magical" property to it, 500 mg. is as much as will it into an OO capsule and they want to come in under the radar of the FDA. Since I've got 5 pounds of the stuff, what the heck? Once again, the stuff's food, not an isolate.

[rabagley]

BTW, I'm not taking a teaspoon of V XPC a day. I'm taking tablespoons full of it several times a day.

Heh. Excellent that you're trying such a large dose (you hinted as much in an earlier post).

I was thinking I might try mixing a heaping tablespoon into a cup of plain yogurt, adding some blueberries (or whatever I have around) for some sweetness and flavor. I'm really curious to get a list of "hiding" foods you've tried and the results.

BTW. I just put my bid on eBay from the same seller you describe, so I'm now waiting with tapping fingers for the stuff to arrive.

[browser]

Heh.  Excellent that you're trying such a large dose (you hinted as much in an earlier post).

I was thinking I might try mixing a heaping tablespoon into a cup of plain yogurt, adding some blueberries (or whatever I have around) for some sweetness and flavor.  I'm really curious to get a list of "hiding" foods you've tried and the results.

BTW.  I just put my bid on eBay from the same seller you describe, so I'm now waiting with tapping fingers for the stuff to arrive.

I've tried the Green Glop I get in the produce section of Wal-Mart. That works rather well, as does grapefruit juice. V8 doesn't help. Since I stir Hershey's Baking Cocoa into my morning coffee, the cocoa idea is out, though it might be a good idea. Since I think of Euell Gibbons everytime I take the stuff, I'm thinking that it would go good with a bowl of All Brand. The All Brand might help cover up the remains of molasses when the sugar's taken out, which I suspect accounts for the stuff's nasty taste.

BTW, my only connection to eBay, this stuff and the guy in Fort Collins who sold it to me is that I bought it from him, I love the mountains I used to love to go into north of Ft. Collins and that fact that that university town is /not/ the snooty city Boulder is.

Here's a new development that further excites me. I've been suffering from acne from an unknown source. Perhaps it came in when I started take Tribulus in the evening some months ago. It's been a real pain, literally. Well, I get to relax on Saturday mornings and just showered and shaved. I don't use a wash cloth, figuring that's why God gave us hands. I was very surprised to find not a single trace of acne. Gone. Acne, of course, is an infection, and V XPC/Epicor fight infections were told.

[browser]

I have no financial interest in this product. I exchanged emails with the seller on eBay about his using the Diamond logo on his containers and also shared with him the justifiable fear people have about buying something not in its original container. For what it's worth, here's his reply:

Thank you for your feedback. It is indeed the real Diamond V XPC product. If Diamond V ever tells me to not put the sticker on the container I will. I think I am ok just due to the fact I am not claiming the product or trademark as a product or service of my own. It just makes it easier to identify the 2 different products I am repackaging. If I need to in the future I will use the same stickers with just the name and weight on them. That would be cheaper for me anyway, using just black ink.

Now I had already purchased the regular product before I saw he was also selling the organic version. I'd be willing to bet that Diamond is selling one product in two different sets of packaging but has to pay extra for inspections and special handling. Since I don't eat organic bread, rice, oatmeal or drink organic wine or spirits, I'm not all that concerned about eating non-organic pig feed additive.

With regards to the question of concealing the taste. I have seen recipes on the Internet for adding V XPC/Epicor to super healthy muffin mix. Perhaps this stuff has been pasturized. Since there's no indication on anything I've read about heat sensitivity, I don't know if baking this stuff would be a good idea. I think that pumpkin pile filling would make an ideal cover for the taste but by now I'm taking it mixed in water and am used to the taste.

Edited by browser, 04 November 2007 - 09:46 PM.

[tintinet]

Ordered some of the organic version. Will report experience.

[inawe]

I'd like to see a COA from an independent lab, yet I don't know that I'd take any unless I knew more about the source/suppliers and/or had independent testing of their product performed.
Ordered some of the organic version. Will report experience.

Have you seen a COA for Diamond V XPC?

[tintinet]

More or less.

[senseix]

1. How many grams are you guys taking to start with?
2. How many do you plan on taking in the long term?

[tintinet]

Epicor, reportely the same product, packaged for human supplementation, recommends 500 mg a day, IIRC.

I'll probably start higher (maybe 1 gram/day), and trend towards the 500 mg/day.

[senseix]

Ok, i'm thinking of doing 1gram in the am and 1gram in the pm, as if you look at those charts they give life stock much more per day even the birds so i'm thinking to start at that level for a bit then drop down to 1gram per day. Now since i'm not use to measuring powder on the gram level, am i going to have to use a scale each time to measure out the right amounts or is there an easier way for this?

[rabagley]

A few details that may help with your dosing. Diamond V XPC is not Epicor. Diamond V XPC has all of the ingredients of Epicor as well as chopped grains (unknown exact composition) and possibly a few other things besides. None of it is silage or other sources of indigestable fiber. What I have heard indicates that the concentration factor is about 4x. To get 500mg of the same stuff in Epicor, you'll need 2g of Diamond V XPC.

2g is about 1/2 tsp, though you should check to see how close that is by measuring a larger amount to whatever accuracy you can with the scales you've got and dividing back. (24 tsp = 1 cup may be useful for the conversion) And if you want a cheap and fairly accurate scale, eBay has got hundreds of 0.1 gram accurate scales for under $20 shipped. I bought a milligram scale for $40 that compares very closely to the analytical scale at my sister's lab.

Personally, I'll be following browser's example and will be eating this stuff by the heaping tablespoonful. I figure 1.5 tbsp in a cup of yogurt with some whole fruit should make for an immune-boosting breakfast. 5lbs cost me $33, including shipping. At that rate (5g/day Epicor equivalent), 5lbs will last me about three months. If I can talk my wife into joining me, it will be economical to buy a 50lb bag from the feed supply store and freeze it in 5lb quantities.