312 replies to this topic

[Lazarus Long]

To expect the discussion of global war not to incite, or at least reflect the political factionalization of society at large is unrealistic.  

 

However we can agree to identify the issues together and through dialogue, as opposed to invective and personal attack, address them together. Reality is that people's perspectives and ideas reflect their place in the arguments, bringing their emotional attachment to the fore of discussion. People get angry at the views of others, This leads to personal attack. It works that way on the larger scale as well; think about it.

 

Nevertheless we each have our own perspective and a right to express it here.

 

Site leadership also has a responsibility to maintain "order," or better viewed as a "virtual sanctuary," where such discussion is not only encouraged but treated as protected speech.  People who digress into personal attacks on other "contributors" to the discussion should expect to be edited, and face restrictive censure over their conduct. 

 

Before I share my opinion again on this thread I would ask everyone to reflect on the rising angst within the discussion as an indicator of the veracity of the topic at any given period of discussion.

Edited by Lazarus Long, 12 August 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[xEva]

xEva are you living in the USA and support Russia? You should be very short-sighted person or you are russian, which can explain why you are so brainwashed. By supporting Russia you support crime and chaos, which will potentially destabilize world for the next half century and would not allow life extension science to progress. Moreover it can significantly slow down scientific and economical developement of the world.

Maecenas, you may want to check out the world's opinion as of Dec 2013 regarding the question of what is considered the greatest threat to peace in the world: It is USA, followed by Pakistan, China, North Korea, Israel and Iran. Russia did not even make the top 6.

 

Before you call someone brainwashed because their opinion differs from yours, consider that the most brainwashed person never doubts the veracity of his own opinions.

 

 

 

PS and thank you for showing this community the attitudes of a typical young Ukrainian   

Edited by xEva, 12 August 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[Maecenas]

xEva - you label people without knowing who they are.

As of now, I strongly believe, that the  greatest danger for the world peace comes from Russia. I repeat once more - Putin has adopted national-socialist ideology. Winston Churchill once said that fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists. That's exactly what we see right now in Russia.

I watch and read russian media daily. They claim that Europe and USA are the centres of moral and economical degradation, that Russia is a Third Rome, and russians are superior in all ways.  I don't see such propaganda in the western media.

It's normal nowadays in Russia to detain a person if he or she dresses the yellow blue clothes or has any symbols of Ukraine. Mass gatherings of people are not allowed. It's normal to portray Barack Obama as a monkey eating banana on the american embassy in Moscow. 

I've visited many countries in my life, I've seen many cultures and I also saw how much higher quality of  life, personal freedom and education are in the West. There is no alternitive for those things in Russia - it's underdeveloped country where average people strive to live like in the west, but corrupted government wants to recreate  the authoritarian political system. Americans and russians are the same people, but first have better sociopolitical system, which presents an inevitable future stage for any developing modern country. American philosopher Francis Fukuyama (the big enemy of transhumanism btw) called our time the end of history for that reason. 

I don't think differences  between nations andnational mentality exist, i consider them to be a set of biases. I speak several languages and I don't have any national identity. 

Edited by Maecenas, 12 August 2014 - 09:54 PM.

[xEva]

I am asking the moderators to please interfere. Why no one can post on topic here without Maecenas spamming the thread with personal insults and anti-Russian propaganda? There is plenty of that on MSM sites.



@Maecenas: that USA is the greatest threat to world peace is the world opinion. It's a fact. How is this unfriendly and what's there not to like?

And terribly sorry for labeling you Ukrainian. Your indignation says this must be an insult..   My sincere apologies! 

Edited by xEva, 12 August 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[redFishBlueFish]

xEva are you living in the USA and support Russia? You should be very short-sighted person or you are russian, which can explain why you are so brainwashed. By supporting Russia you support crime and chaos, which will potentially destabilize world for the next half century and would not allow life extension science to progress. Moreover it can significantly slow down scientific and economical developement of the world.

 

Most of the nootropic stuff on here comes out of Russia. lol. 

 

I tease this Russian girl I see everyday about various things to see how she answers. She absolutely hates Russia and tells me it's ran by the mafia, a/k/a old communist big wigs? She doesn't like Russia so much she started using a cowgirl accent and wearing cowgirl boots........ 

 

I want a modern Teddy Roosevelt in office. Give the senate the middle finger, give the status quo republicans the middle finger, same problem TR had in his time, give these grandstanding Russians the middle finger, and dump thousands of the USA troops in Ukraine. I didn't say start a war, just show support for Ukraine. Then proceed to round up all the Putin supporters and ship them off to Moscow in a steel container. Clothes and food included of course. 

 

I say no to WW3. Russia vs everyone? Is that what this would look like? Or would it be Russia, China, and Iran vs everyone? I'm confused who would be vs each other.

Edited by redFishBlueFish, 13 August 2014 - 01:48 AM.

[xEva]

Oh great. Now this thread is turned into a political debate. This is not the place for it. But since there are now  2 proponents of war with Russia here, I'd like to ask you, would-be-promoters of democracy: Given that over 80% of Russians approve of Putin, how democratic is it for Americans and Ukrainians to go there and insist that Russians should change their president? Especially considering that only ~40% of Americans now approve of Obama -- how would you like it if China, Russia and Arabs gang up and fix that problem for the US?
 
Also, if you, Maecenas and redFishBlueFish, promote the "regime change" in Russia, why would not you serve in the army rather than, as Maecenas said, planning to be out of the country at the first hint of danger to your life? Be the men and put your money where your mouth is!


Also, I'd like to know who is voting my posts as "dangerous, irresponsible" when they contain only the facts. Again: it is the fact that the world opinion considers the US the greatest threat to the peace in the world. Not liking the facts and trying to label them as "dangerous, irresponsible" and "unfriendly" is the hallmark of a person not on good terms with reality.

I know what an absolute waste of time it is trying to sway an opinion of a person who is utterly brainwashed by MSM and that's why I have not and will not engage in a political debate with you guys. Besides, again: THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL FORUM.

Edited by xEva, 13 August 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[redFishBlueFish]

Oh great. Now this thread is turned into a political debate. This is not the place for it. But since there are now  2 proponents of war with Russia here, I'd like to ask you, would-be-promoters of democracy: Given that over 80% of Russians approve of Putin, how democratic is it for Americans and Ukrainians to go there and insist that Russians should change their president? Especially considering that only ~40% of Americans now approve of Obama -- how would you like it if China, Russia and Arabs gang up and fix that problem for the US?
 
Also, if you, Maecenas and redFishBlueFish, promote the "regime change" in Russia, why would not you serve in the army rather than, as Maecenas said, planning to be out of the country at the first hint of danger to your life? Be the men and put your money where your mouth is!


Also, I'd like to know who is voting my posts as "dangerous, irresponsible" when they contain only the facts. Again: it is the fact that the world opinion considers the US the greatest threat to the peace in the world. Not liking the facts and trying to label them as "dangerous, irresponsible" and "unfriendly" is the hallmark of a person not on good terms with reality.

I know what an absolute waste of time it is trying to sway an opinion of a person who is utterly brainwashed by MSM and that's why I have not and will not engage in a political debate with you guys. Besides, again: THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL FORUM.

 

I'm confused where I promoted "regime change" anywhere for Russia. I referenced a Russian girl, from Russia, and you automatically think I want regime change? I can barely get my clothes washed, let alone figure out the dynamics of leadership change in a country, even the CIA can't figure that out, ie. Iran. I'd like to know where you are pulling 80% though.

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

 

I'm confused where I promoted "regime change" anywhere for Russia.

 

 

"I want a modern Teddy Roosevelt in office. Give the senate the middle finger, give the status quo republicans the middle finger, same problem TR had in his time, give these grandstanding Russians the middle finger, and dump thousands of the USA troops in Ukraine. I didn't say start a war, just show support for Ukraine. Then proceed to round up all the Putin supporters and ship them off to Moscow in a steel container. "

 

"I say no to WW3. "

Maybe, but you will acheive ti.

[redFishBlueFish]

 

 

 

I'm confused where I promoted "regime change" anywhere for Russia.

 

 

"I want a modern Teddy Roosevelt in office. Give the senate the middle finger, give the status quo republicans the middle finger, same problem TR had in his time, give these grandstanding Russians the middle finger, and dump thousands of the USA troops in Ukraine. I didn't say start a war, just show support for Ukraine. Then proceed to round up all the Putin supporters and ship them off to Moscow in a steel container. "

 

"I say no to WW3. "

Maybe, but you will acheive ti.

 

 

Sorry, but TR and earlier presidents did the same thing against the many European nations back in the late 19th and early 20th century. TR let navel ships just sit around Venezuela to "observe" Spain and others trying to grandstand. Hell we sent our own generals into Venezuela to assist in the battle vs Spain. Russia would be the only one that would initiate the war here, not the USA.

 

Look up the Monroe Doctrine as an example of what can be done without war.

Edited by redFishBlueFish, 13 August 2014 - 06:41 AM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

.... russian media daily ... claim that Europe and USA are the centres of moral and economical degradation, that Russia is a Third Rome, and russians are superior in all ways.  

 

I am also familiar with some of the russian media, even though, I do not watch them daily.

 

Will you pleace cite where you saw,that "Russia is a Third Rome" in the russian media? The russian medias really are saying, that USA and Europe are the centers of economical degradation, and they really are also saying, that Russia is growing its economy (if this is wat you mean by "russians are superior in all ways"). I haven't however met the idea of the Third Rome in the russian medias.

 

You understand, when you cite it, and when you say: here - in this russian media they are talking about Russia as the Third Rome, then it will be more easy for you to prove it.

 

Otherwise, it sounds like written from someone with political biases.

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

 

 

 

I'm confused where I promoted "regime change" anywhere for Russia.

 

 

"I want a modern Teddy Roosevelt in office. Give the senate the middle finger, give the status quo republicans the middle finger, same problem TR had in his time, give these grandstanding Russians the middle finger, and dump thousands of the USA troops in Ukraine. I didn't say start a war, just show support for Ukraine. Then proceed to round up all the Putin supporters and ship them off to Moscow in a steel container. "

 

"I say no to WW3. "

Maybe, but you will acheive ti.

 

 

Sorry, but TR and earlier presidents did the same thing against the many European nations back in the late 19th and early 20th century. TR let navel ships just sit around Venezuela to "observe" Spain and others trying to grandstand. Hell we sent our own generals into Venezuela to assist in the battle vs Spain. Russia would be the only one that would initiate the war here, not the USA.

 

Look up the Monroe Doctrine as an example of what can be done without war.

 

 

Man, you sound like someone, who really want to sacrifise his immortality in a third world war.

[Kalliste]

I've been spending time on Rense and Prisonplanet for 12 years. Not a week passes without someone Calling it WW3. It never happens.

The existence of nuclear weapons is a great thing, if not for them I suspect we would be well into WW5 by now.

If Mexico or Canada was teaming up with Russia to build Russian military bases along the American border I suspect the response from Washington would be hysterical. Russian actions in Ukraine are quite understandable.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 13 August 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Maecenas]

 

.... russian media daily ... claim that Europe and USA are the centres of moral and economical degradation, that Russia is a Third Rome, and russians are superior in all ways.  

 

I am also familiar with some of the russian media, even though, I do not watch them daily.

 

Will you pleace cite where you saw,that "Russia is a Third Rome" in the russian media? The russian medias really are saying, that USA and Europe are the centers of economical degradation, and they really are also saying, that Russia is growing its economy (if this is wat you mean by "russians are superior in all ways"). I haven't however met the idea of the Third Rome in the russian medias.

 

You understand, when you cite it, and when you say: here - in this russian media they are talking about Russia as the Third Rome, then it will be more easy for you to prove it.

 

Otherwise, it sounds like written from someone with political biases.

 

Former KGB agent and now the head of the Russian orthodox church patriarch Kirill about the concept of Moscow as the Third Rome:

 

Dmitriy Kiselev the host of the main russian news "Vesti Nedeli" says that americans prefer Putin to Obama, and claims that Russia can make radioactive ashes out of the USA 

 

Putin - the west will soon collapse 

 

Famous russian politologist, philosopher, Putin's advisor  and ideologist Alexandr Dugin ( he is a strong russian nazi)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toPU3a4ZL68

 

Barack Obama mocked on  american embassy in Moscow  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iPnao3zqU  

 

About  russian cultural figures and itelligentsia which is divided into two parts - those  who support and don't support Putin's politics, the second are proclaimed enemies   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3dD05sDYT0

 

'Код Кирилла' documentary series is a nazi propaganda claiming superiority of russians, their orthodox christianity and their right to rule over other slavs. It is regularly shown on the main russian channels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPvajFX00BA

 

russians detainув for ukrainian symbols https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKRTHsiYW1U

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoJH3kSYGpM

 

 

 

Russian media is full of lies, they provoke war and murder, there is almost no fact there which is not  turned around. What they are doing right now is creating a propaganda, which has a goal of making Ukraine a part of Russia by all means. Those journalists are responsible for the deaths of thousands of people right now in Ukraine. 

Edited by Maecenas, 13 August 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[Lazarus Long]

The attached map describes arms sales and it really does say it all, well it "mostly" does.  More than a few other nations are in the war business.  Isn't it a fact that the French deal to sell arms to the Russians is still going through?

 

In fact they're not the only European country doing so.

 

Actually the profiteers of death are salivating everywhere over the return to a cold war status. You can call it "Cold War 3" if you want, or maybe just the "Great Cold War". Not to be confused with the last "Great War" which began almost exactly a century ago with the "guns of autumn."

 

Our steady march back from detente is all about profits and proxies.

 

I long ago predicted "WW3 would be a Third World War" but the history of colonialism made that prediction too easy.

 

Yes.  WW3 started a while ago and most of you here shouldn't be too surprised; it's your conventional ideas about war that are really obsolete.  The idea of direct nation state nuclear confrontation is not nearly the threat that conventional confrontation is and history is filled with vast proof of that proposition.  

 

The prime strategy of hegemonic powers has always been to pit the tribes against one another till they face extinction or assimilation. The asymmetric action of rogue non-state identifiable terrorist organizations (or tribes as the military identifies them) just adds another layer of "fire and forget" plausible deniability, which could make the limited use of nuclear, biological, chemical, and not soon to be forgotten, AI weapons, even more likely, not less because they won't be deterred through MAD diplomacy the way Nation State confrontation is.

 

The US killed over 3 million directly in Vietnam and indirectly contributed to the deaths of many millions more in Cambodia, Laos etc.  That was just SE Asia.  Our combatants were simultaneously active in multiple parts of Africa, Asia and Latin America during the last Cold War and this time it is going to be even more chaotic; not to mention that the Russians were often just as bad as us if not worse, even to their own people.

 

You don't suspect that the Novo Soviet is trying for a little bit of payback over Afghanistan with ISAL, ISIS or whatever the caliphate minded call themselves this week. Do you? 

Attached Files

•  This_Map_Of_US_And RU.gif   298.49KB   0 downloads

Edited by Lazarus Long, 14 August 2014 - 05:05 AM.

[Lazarus Long]

i guess I should have added this link to the above map attachment.

 

http://finance.yahoo...-140503590.html

[Danail Bulgaria]

 

 

.... russian media daily ... claim that Europe and USA are the centres of moral and economical degradation, that Russia is a Third Rome, and russians are superior in all ways.  

 

 

.....

Will you pleace cite where you saw,that "Russia is a Third Rome" in the russian media?

....

Former KGB agent and now the head of the Russian orthodox church patriarch Kirill about the concept of Moscow as the Third Rome:

<youtube video cited - look the original post>

 

Dmitriy Kiselev the host of the main russian news "Vesti Nedeli" says that americans prefer Putin to Obama, and claims that Russia can make radioactive ashes out of the USA <youtube video cited - look the original post>

 

Putin - the west will soon collapse 

<youtube video cited - look the original post>

 

Famous russian politologist, philosopher, Putin's advisor  and ideologist Alexandr Dugin ( he is a strong russian nazi)

<youtube video cited - look the original post>

Barack Obama mocked on  american embassy in Moscow <youtube video cited - look the original post> 

 

About  russian cultural figures and itelligentsia which is divided into two parts - those  who support and don't support Putin's politics, the second are proclaimed enemies <youtube video cited - look the original post>

 

'Код Кирилла' documentary series is a nazi propaganda claiming superiority of russians, their orthodox christianity and their right to rule over other slavs. It is regularly shown on the main russian channels

<youtube video cited - look the original post>

russians detainув for ukrainian symbols 

<two videos cited - look the original post>

 

Russian media is full of lies, they provoke war and murder, there is almost no fact there which is not  turned around. What they are doing right now is creating a propaganda, which has a goal of making Ukraine a part of Russia by all means. Those journalists are responsible for the deaths of thousands of people right now in Ukraine. 

 

 

"Russian media is full of lies, they provoke war and murder, there is almost no fact there which is not  turned around."

So, afterall you didn't see the term "Third Rome"on the russian media, but you say, that the russian media claims it daily.

I watched each of the videos, that you provided, rewinded some parts of them several times to be sure what is it all about, and I can say that even in these videos there is not contained even the slightest idea, that the Russians want to build the fashist Third Rome.
 

The first video represents the view of the orthodox church in Russia for its independence. The third Rome, for which patriarch Kirill is talking about, has nothing to do with the fashist "Third Rome". In order to be understood, I have to make some brief background on the subject. In the 15th and the 16th century there were two big religious centers for the orthodox christianity - Konstantinopol and Rome. After they were destroyed, these centers stopped to exist. From this point until now the russian orthodox church pretends to be independent from the other orthodox churches. It wants to become its own religious center by itself, that is simmilar to the one, that has been Rome. The methods for the Kirill's third rome to become true are "sympathy between all the people", "spiritual life", "to be avoided wars", "including cold wars", "union of the entire russian church". "This is the way for Moscow to become again the sprirtual center ... for the entire russian orthodox church". So, you either misunderstood it, or you are using it as a cheeky and an artifitali propagand.

 

The second video really says that US people think, that Putin is a greated leader than Obama (if this is what you mean by "americans prefer Putin to Obama"), and really claims that Russia can make radioactive ashes out of the USA. But my question was where you saw the term "Third Rome". If Russia has the potential to destroy the USA, this still does not mean, that it is building a "Third Rome". On the simmilar way we may say, that USA is building a Third Rome, because it has the potential to destroy the entire world.

 

The third video Putin is not talking, that the west will collapse soon, but is talking that Russia economics is rising.

Nevermind. I think, that russian propaganda afterall is saying, that the west economy will collapse soon.

Maybe you have prestructured in your mind the information from the video about the western collapse as a result from the rising of the russian's economy?

You know what? Many people, including americans believe, that the wester economy will not hold on. So... all who say, that the western economy will collapse is a third reich or something?

 

"Famous russian politologist, philosopher, Putin's advisor  and ideologist Alexandr Dugin ( he is a strong russian nazi)"

This video is showing absolutely the opposite - it says, that after the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine has been governed by anti - russian fashists, who proceed still being there.

 

"Barack Obama mocked on  american embassy in Moscow"

Yes, the video shows exactly that - Obama mocked, not showing who exactly mocks him - russians or pro - western and ukrainian provocators.

 

"'Код Кирилла' documentary series is a nazi propaganda claiming superiority of russians, their orthodox christianity and their right to rule over other slavs. It is regularly shown on the main russian channels"

Absolutely not. Kod Kirila documentary is representing the histry of the slavic alphabet and the several unsuccessfull attempts it to be destroyed as a part of of different plans for the destruction of the slavic population. No "nazi propaganda", no "claiming superiority of russians", nor to their orthodox christianity, nor to "their right to rule over other slavs".

 

"russians detainув for ukrainian symbols"

Yes, those two videos show exactly that. Several people, walking in Russia singing pro ukrainian songs and showing ukraininan symbols were arrested by the police.

This is the only trueth, that you showed. Stll the term "Third Rome" does not exist there.

[xEva]

Thanks seivtcho you beat me to it. Though I did not look beyond the first 3 links. I figured the guy does not understand Russian. He must be from Galicia, cause most Central and East Ukrainians speak Russian or at least understand it very well.  
 
Apparently he does not know that the last March poll of Americans showed that they thought that Putin was a better statesman than Obama. Maecenas thought it was Russian propaganda lol. And don't know if you understood that they said that the animation showing how "Russia can turn the US into ashes" was taken from a conspiracy site. It showed how, supposedly, in case of complete destruction of Russia and its command, the system will unleash the weapons  automatically. They said they hoped that the system (the reality of which is far from certain) will act as deterrent of the US aggression against Russia.
 

Re Patriarch Cyril, indeed what he's talking about is that after the fall of Constantinople and Rome becoming Catholic, Moscow became the center of Orthodox Christianity, and that's what was meant by the 3rd Rome. In any rate, in Russia, the state is separated from the church and whatever the mainstream or marginal sects may be saying is irrelevant.

It's different when Obama claims that the US is an exceptional nation, endowed by God with exceptional mission to save the world (ex. see Obama's last May speech at cadets graduation). This position is eerily similar to the central tenet of Judaism, which is fine for a religion but is really crazy for the foreign policy of a modern state.


And the video of Putin was from the international business summit in summer 2013. I'm sure one can find its transcript and translation, if interested. He says that Russian debt is ~5%, while it is 90%-100% for the EU and US. He also says that, should the western economy collapse, this will negatively impact the Russian economy -- i.e. Putin does not want the western world economy to collapse.


I did not look at other links. Don't know why Maecenas posted them, since this is the en-speaking forum and most people don't understand ru and thus unable to judge for themselves.

Edited by xEva, 14 August 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[Maecenas]

I haven't said anything about FASCIST Third Rome. I am sorry, that you haven't understood what I was trying to tell you.

xEva - Вы уж точно не понимаете ни слова по-русски. Я разговариваю на многих языках и русский - один из трех моих родных языков. Я был воспитан в семье с польскими, немецкими, русскими и украинскими корнями, и кому как не мне из первых уст знать, что такое уважение к другим национальностям. Тон Вашего разговора унижает национальное достоинство украинцев, Вы используете множество шовинистических стереотипов и мне очень жаль, что  такие радикально правые взгляды здесь присутствуют. Все, в чем я пытаюсь Вас здесь убедить - это разница между двумя типами обществ - замкнутым, которым является Россия, и открытым - в котором живут западные европейцы и жители США и Канады.

 

[xEva]

I long ago predicted "WW3 would be a Third World War" but the history of colonialism made that prediction too easy.

Yes. WW3 started a while ago and most of you here shouldn't be too surprised; it's your conventional ideas about war that are really obsolete. The idea of direct nation state nuclear confrontation is not nearly the threat that conventional confrontation is and history is filled with vast proof of that proposition.

Not sure I understand this:

I long ago predicted "WW3 would be a Third World War"

a typo?

Regarding the rest, are you saying that ww3 has already begun? Cause if it is limited to them bombing the "third world countries", as a spoiled Merikan, I am not too worried (I know).

PS
oh I got it! You mean ww3 will concern only the "third world countries". sorry for being slow

Edited by xEva, 14 August 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[xEva]

I haven't said anything about FASCIST Third Rome. I am sorry, that you haven't understood what I was trying to tell you.
xEva - Вы уж точно не понимаете ни слова по-русски. Я разговариваю на многих языках и русский - один из трех моих родных языков. Я был воспитан в семье с польскими, немецкими, русскими и украинскими корнями, и кому как не мне из первых уст знать, что такое уважение к другим национальностям. Тон Вашего разговора унижает национальное достоинство украинцев, Вы используете множество шовинистических стереотипов и мне очень жаль, что  такие радикально правые взгляды здесь присутствуют. Все, в чем я пытаюсь Вас здесь убедить - это разница между двумя типами обществ - замкнутым, которым является Россия, и открытым - в котором живут западные европейцы и жители США и Канады.

oh! so you're saying that you understood what was said in the videos you posted and yet, despite of that, you intentionally misrepresented their content -?

And since you've never lived in Russia, what is your source of info about its 'openness'? And why compare it to USA and Canada, if you have a much better example close home:
 

VIENNA, 12 August 2014 – OSCE Representative on Freedom of the Media Dunja Mijatović expressed her concern about a draft law on sanctions registered in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine on 8 August and approved in the first reading today.

The draft law allows authorities to prohibit or restrict television and radio channel retransmission; restrict or terminate media activities, including on the Internet; restrict or prohibit the production or distribution of printed materials; and restrict or terminate telecommunication services and public telecommunications network usage.

In any rate, your position is perfectly clear. You believe it's "in the interest of humanity" for the US to start a war with Russia, and in support for it you keep spamming this thread with anti-Russian propaganda. You also made it clear that you personally are not planning to take part in the hostilities. I have a surprise for you: neither anyone on this site! So, for whom is all this warmongering spam?

There is no need for you to continue in the same vein. Please update us when you position changes

[Maecenas]

Why do you twist my words - where did I say it's in the interest of humanity  for the USA to start war with Russia? How can you possibly know that I've never lived in Russia and that I am not a russian citizen? I haven't misrepresented any video - in  the first one Kirill is speaking about the concept of the Third Rome. Since seivtcho asked me to cite where I saw the Russia called as the Third Rome in russian media - i sent him a link. 

P.S. It seems you like personal accusations. Please try to avoid name calling and stick with analyzing things.

Edited by Maecenas, 14 August 2014 - 09:05 PM.

[Lazarus Long]

Yes Eva, WW3 began after 9/11 as a Third World War.  Consider it our Lusitania moment.

 

The mistake most people make is to buy into the Hollywood hyped stereotype of bilateral Mutually Assured Destruction.  That idea isn’t just soooo 20^th Century; it’s from the 19^th, if not simply Roman.

 

There are many aspects to this age of proxy war we have entered however, don’t become too complacent inside our western citadel “Green Zone”. While WW3 began as a Third World War and will continue to be primarily fought there, it will also become a kind of global riot and asymmetric warfare will not leave major urban centers unscathed.

 

The real terror of our age will come through a crisis of chaos and the loss of personal liberty to the mantra of security in response.  Sadly all too many will blithely trade freedom for security.

 

WW3 is more like the “30 Years War” or worse, The Hundred Year War.  People like me were ignored in ’03 when we warned about creating conditions for generational conflict.  That is what’s coming; something more akin to a series of modern Punic Wars than a Final Crusade and ironically including many of the same players.  Think of WW3 as the “never ending war.”

 

The “Third Rome” theme goes back to Catherine 2^nd and is a very Romanov dream.  It was “Catherine the Great” that destroyed and assimilated Poland, seized for centuries the Crimean Peninsula and wholly assimilated many of the Baltic States, including Ukraine.  Putin has wet dreams of being a modern Potemkin but he lacks the guiding mind (not to mention body) of a Catherine to imagine things on a truly grand scale.  In the long run Putin may become his own worst enemy in the Stalinist tradition.  However that could be a really long run.

 

[Kalliste]

I don't like the idea that you can redefine WW3 to suit whatever you wish. In that case WW2 never ended since we have had a near constant background noise of pathetic conflicts around the world since 1950's.

More likely, you started paying attention to global geopolitics in 2003 and have ever since so this is a case of confirmation/selection-bias on your part.

 

 

Me personally, I'm not going to call it WW3 until I see serious action. Large scale mechanized warfare, long range bombing, submarine battles, carriers launching airstrikes and so on.

In fact, since I live near a large oil-processing facility that is going to be among the hottest items to crash chances are I'm never going to know it started since my city is going to be hit by at least four titanic hammer-blows by medium range Russian cruisemissiles carrying hundreds of kilotons of warheads within hours of hostilities commencing.

 

I will concede that we might be living in some period of buildup before the war takes place, such as 1904-1914, 1930-1939, but we don't know that for sure. Certainly the world has been in a lot more trouble (Cuban missiles crisis) without WW3 igniting.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 15 August 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[Lazarus Long]

I realize that I am about to undertake an exercise in contradicting the very advice that I shall begin with, nevertheless I have been remiss in being too glib on this subject due to the nature of how replies are acceptable in fora such as ours and the personal manner that too many replies are made.  This is a subject of global importance and requires diplomacy and tact in order to keep the inevitable rancor of partisanship from maiming the discussion itself.  

 

"Peace is not made between friends but between enemies".

 

In order to achieve a peaceful conclusion to the very conflict I have suggested is already underway it is thus necessary to encourage and engage in discussion both the ideas and the individuals of various protagonists.

 

Before I dissect the replies to my comments and elaborate on my POVI will introduce a little background.  Let's look at chapter 2 of Sun Tzu's "Art of War".

 

 

 

2. Waging War

 

Ts`ao Kung has the note: "He who wishes to fight must first count the cost," which prepares us for the discovery that the subject of the chapter is not what we might expect from the title, but is primarily a consideration of ways and means.

 

1

Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war, where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots, as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them a thousand LI, the expenditure at home and at the front, including entertainment of guests, small items such as glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor, will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day. Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

 

[Note #1

The "swift chariots" were lightly built and, according to Chang Yu, used for the attack; the "heavy chariots" were heavier, and designed for purposes of defense. Li Ch`uan, it is true, says that the latter were light, but this seems hardly probable. It is interesting to note the analogies between early Chinese warfare and that of the Homeric Greeks. In each case, the war-chariot was the important factor, forming as it did the nucleus round which was grouped a certain number of foot-soldiers. With regard to the numbers given here, we are informed that each swift chariot was accompanied by 75 footmen, and each heavy chariot by 25 footmen, so that the whole army would be divided up into a thousand battalions, each consisting of two chariots and a hundred men.]

 

[note #2.

78 modern LI go to a mile. The length may have varied slightly since Sun Tzu's time.]

 

The definition of WW3 that I apply first is that of a "Global Conflict", and one that does not preclude the presence of non state actors but will likely include BOTH state and non state protagonists.

 

Second, it involves advanced industrialized warfare applying all the most sophisticated technologies of the period in which it occurs, not merely weapons of mass destruction.

 

Third, the myth of "officiality" is strictly a state function but is nevertheless subject to both contemporary and historical revisionism.  Historians rarely feel bound by the past to measure the origins and chronology of conflict in the same manner as those which fight the battles and more often than not, find themselves in conflict with officialdom.

 

Fourth, it is also a myth that has been perpetrated largely by media but also as a by-product of the "Mutually Assured Destruction" policy that underwrote the last great "Cold War", that WW3 is inevitably a "15 minute nuclear hot war.  

 

Ok we can make that a 2 week war that uses chemical agents and maybe a month or two if biological.  Oh wait minute, I guess they call that WWZ now.

 

Is it ever Ok to joke about mass death?

 

 

 

#2

When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.

 

#3

Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.

 

#4

Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

 

#5

Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

 

#6

There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.

 

#7

It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on. 

 

One must carefully read subsections 2 through 7 to appreciate the strategy of  Fundamentalist Terrorist groups in conflict against the Progressive States today, but also the underlying conflict of interest for an industrialized state that has given socioeconomic control over to the Military Industrial Establishment.  

 

In fact, we will return to this topic but failing to appreciate the importance of these axioms of war can lead to the failure of large scale states locked in asymmetric conflict with much smaller protagonists.

 

In many respects the 30 Years War and the Napoleonic Wars can be seen as some of the first truly global modern conflicts but are not called "World Wars", just as many of the antebellum antecedents to WW1 include the Boer, Zulu, Sino Russo, and Opium Wars that involved large State actors utilising proxies for their conflicts, as well as their own troops in the conflicts.  Many of these conflicts also overlap the fall of colonialism and the rise if the modern struggle for national identity, even though some of these identities are "invented" as in the case of the break up of the Ottoman Empire after WW1.

Edited by Lazarus Long, 02 September 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[Avatar of Horus]

Michael: "It's started. There isn't much time."

Is WW3 coming soon?
Has it started?

According to Pope Francis, it may have:
Pope Francis warns on 'piecemeal World War III'
BBC News 13 September 2014
http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-29190890
A "piecemeal" World War III may have already begun with the current spate of crimes, massacres and destruction, Pope Francis has warned.
 
"Even today, after the second failure of another world war, perhaps one can speak of a third war, one fought piecemeal, with crimes, massacres, destruction," he said.

[Area-1255]

World War III is right around the corner....

And in regards to Russia - they will be involved in waging a cyber war of all sorts. 

Consider the mob and other organizations for example - then consider the techonology.

There is a lot that will be at play, and technology is far more complex than 10 years ago.

I would worry about power plants being shut off by viruses before a bomb blows one up.

[Danail Bulgaria]

I don't know about cyberwar, but global destruction weapons may be involved at some point if things go out of control.

[xEva]

Phew! The war scare seems over. No more Ukrainian TV for me! At the time, they were all wound up and ready to march on Moscow to depose Putin.   ..backed by the Mericans of course.  

 

And so I changed my mind and updated my vote accordingly.  The vote distribution went back to what it was back in Jul-Aug . About 20 votes that were cast since then were 50-50, which and did not affect the existing tally of 30-70 in favor of 'no'. I guess, it's good news  

 

 

[Thew]

No. For as long as UN is there.

[Ark]

China vs Russia