312 replies to this topic

[Galaxyshock]

Finland definitely has a history with Russia. But you guys gave them so much trouble in 1939 I really doubt they want a second helping of that in addition to the trouble that Ukraine is giving them.

 

It really would be great if Putin was deposed soon, one way or the other.

 

We gave them hell alright. What I'm also concerned about is if Putin is indeed desposed, who's going to step in charge. If it's somebody more or less "mentally unstable", can we expect anything better. Then there's the China-Taiwan situation. I don't want to be painting horror pictures, but I guess some concern is undestandable in times like these. 

[Daniel Cooper]

If Putin is deposed - it would be because the Kremlin upper echelon has decided that the war in Ukraine was a huge mistake and it needs to be shut down (they would of course like to lock in some of the territory gains they've made).  I don't think you'll see war hawks/crazier people than Putin take over. 

 

But, who knows - nothing is impossible.

 

 

 

 

[Galaxyshock]

I believe there's evil in this world that comes alive in a widescale conflict. How we react to it is the key. The west has remained in unity when it comes to the war in Ukraine, and it has put the attacker to difficult situation. I'm not saying everything russian is evil or something - it's not the people's fault. A friend of mine studied years in Saint Petersburg and has nothing but good to say about russian culture. It's when the people in charge start to follow their greed for power that bad things happen. North Korea is another player that is hard to predict with the missile launchs and all.

[Daniel Cooper]

I believe there's evil in this world that comes alive in a widescale conflict. How we react to it is the key. The west has remained in unity when it comes to the war in Ukraine, and it has put the attacker to difficult situation. I'm not saying everything russian is evil or something - it's not the people's fault. A friend of mine studied years in Saint Petersburg and has nothing but good to say about russian culture. It's when the people in charge start to follow their greed for power that bad things happen. North Korea is another player that is hard to predict with the missile launchs and all.

 

I've met a number of Russians and have generally found them to be gregarious and intelligent people.

 

They just have a lousy track record in the people that end up governing them.

 

I watched in sadness back in the 1990s as the Russian nation wasn't willing to endure some temporary hardship in the move from communism to something approaching capitalism and instead chose to turn to a "strong man" that promised quick fixes rather than stick with democracy. And they are paying the consequences for that decision to this day.

 

And the way they tried to transition to capitalism was a bad joke. They basically ended up with two classes of people owning almost all of the major formerly state industries of any importance - former communist bosses/KGB types, and organized crime bosses. Those were there only two groups with the power and the capital to pull off taking over these state run businesses, most of which were purchased for pennies on the dollar.  And the whole thing has been mired in corruption and crime up to and including false imprisonments and assassinations ever since. 

 

I really wonder if Russia will ever get it's act together. I see no evidence for it so far.

[geo12the]

I've met a number of Russians and have generally found them to be gregarious and intelligent people.

 

They just have a lousy track record in the people that end up governing them.

 

I watched in sadness back in the 1990s as the Russian nation wasn't willing to endure some temporary hardship in the move from communism to something approaching capitalism and instead chose to turn to a "strong man" that promised quick fixes rather than stick with democracy. And they are paying the consequences for that decision to this day.

 

And the way they tried to transition to capitalism was a bad joke. They basically ended up with two classes of people owning almost all of the major formerly state industries of any importance - former communist bosses/KGB types, and organized crime bosses. Those were there only two groups with the power and the capital to pull off taking over these state run businesses, most of which were purchased for pennies on the dollar.  And the whole thing has been mired in corruption and crime up to and including false imprisonments and assassinations ever since. 

 

I really wonder if Russia will ever get it's act together. I see no evidence for it so far.

 

Russians like all people are good people. I have a wonderful Russian born and raised friend who I've known for 20+ years and she is super empathetic and smart.  As you point out it's the people who govern them who are the issue. It's pretty much the same situation in China now- You got a tyrannical leader who controls all media, feeds people distorted propaganda and lies and quashes dissent. And they are licking their chops to invade Taiwan like Putin tried to invade Ukraine. That is one reason the outcome of Ukraine is so important. If Putin fails, and it’s looking like he is failing, it will dissuade the Chinese from trying to take over Taiwan. 

I think the transition from communism to capitalism in Russia was amiss because the leader at the time was an alcoholic who by all accounts was inebriated most of the time. They will get their act together if they manage to get rid of their current douchebag leader and someone with more common sense takes over. 

Edited by geo12the, 21 June 2023 - 10:24 PM.

[smithx]

This simulation of what would happen as a result of nuclear war just came out.

 

TL/DW: 99% of everyone in the northern hemisphere dies of starvation if they don't die from the bombs or fires.

 

(Via Nature magazine).

 

The production details:

Here are the resources used in the video. These papers and data sources present the most cutting-edge science we have on nuclear war and its effects:

Nuclear arsenal data:
Hans Kristensen (Federation of American Scientists); The video shows 3,641 of 11,133 US and Russian warheads used, and none from the UK, France, China, India, Pakistan, China, Israel or North Korea.

Nuclear target model:
Prof. Sharon Weiner (American University) & Dr. Moritz Kütt (IFSH Hamburg)

Ballistic missile trajectories calculations:
Prof. Anthony Aguirre (UCSC) & Prof. Tegmark (MIT); In reality, MIRVs of course separate only long after launch.

Electromagnetic pulse modeling:
U.S. Army unclassified report AD-A178230 (1994)

Blast modeling:
Prof. Alex Wellerstein, Stevens Inst. of Technology, https:/www.nukemap.org
Samuel Glasstone and Philip J. Dolan: "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons", published by U.S. Dept. of Defense & Dept. of Energy; Although the video mainly shows ground bursts to simplify visualization, most urban strikes are likely to instead be airbursts to destroy a greater area.

Atmospheric modeling of global smoke spread and lofting:
Dr. Charles G. Bardeen (National Center for Atmospheric Research) assuming 150 megatons of black carbon smoke

Smoke modeling methodology:
Joshua Coupe, Charles G. Bardeen, Alan Robock & Owen B. Toon 2019, J. of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, 124, 8522-8543
Owen B. Toon, Charles G. Bardeen, Alan Robock, Lili Zia, Hans Kristensen, Matthew McKinzie, R. Peterson, Cheryl S. Harrison, Nicole.Lovenduski & Richard P. Turco 2019, Science Advances 5: eaay5478

Nuclear winter temperature modeling:.
Alan Robock, Luke Oman & Georgiy L. Stenchikov 2007, J. Of Geophysical Research 112, D13107

Famine modeling:
Lili Xia, Alan Robock, Kim Scherrer, Cheryl Harrison, Benjamin Bodirsky, Isabelle Reindl, Jonas Jägermeyr, Charles Bardeen, Owen B. Toon & Ryan Heneghan 2022, Nature Food, 3, 586-596. https://www.nature.c...ticles/s4301...

[Galaxyshock]

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

- Albert Einstein

[pamojja]

In central Europe at least now is the best opportunity to take potasium iodide prevention tablets, for being prepared if Saporischschja blows up. Worse to come

Edited by pamojja, 07 July 2023 - 03:00 PM.

[Avatar of Horus]

Ukraine, according to a secret document sent by Kyiv to its western allies, appeals for long-range missiles to attack Iran and Syria

 

for missile strikes on the drone production plants of Iran, Syria, as well as on a potential production site in the Russian Federation.

 

The document goes on: "The above may be carried out by the Ukrainian defence forces if partners provide the necessary means of destruction."

 

Wed 27 Sep 2023

https://www.theguard...a-killer-drones

[Galaxyshock]

War in Israel now.

 

Also, they suspect Russia was behind the recent leak in the Balticconnector gas pipeline between Finland and Estonia.

 

More to come?

[adamh]

It seems the pipeline rupture was caused by a chinese ship whose anchor was dragging. They found the anchor and a chinese ship that passed by was missing one anchor. Not airtight proof but sounds likely. There was a groove dragged through the seafloor where the line was cut. The nordstream pipeline was blown up by biden, btw

 

You guys think putin is nuts? He is the least emotional, least impulsive leader I've seen in a while. He invaded ukraine because russian speaking people in the donetsk and lugansk regions were getting shelled by zelensky's forces. They say that some 14,000 civilians were killed in that way from 2012 to 2022. He had a peace deal signed by zelensky in april 2022 but then Z tore it up and decided to fight it out. Bad decision.

 

Ukraine has been shelling the zaparozhia nuke plant since the beginning trying to create a disaster so the world would step in and save them from defeat. 

[adamh]

WW3 is more likely now than ever before. Idiot biden sending troops and battlegroups to the area, demands $14 billion to hand to them. Don't they have enough bombs, planes, tanks and so on to go against a ragtag militia? Why should the long suffering us taxpayer have to give them even more?

 

Defeating hamas is harder than they thought and now iran and lebanon are talking about taking part. All the arab world is outraged at the war crimes and genocide done by the arrogant isrealis. Yes, what they are doing is textbook  war crimes and genocide and changing the definition in wikipedia is not going to get them off the hook

 

Virtually the whole world is calling for a cease fire but nut n yahoo knows that once the war ends, his career is ended. Many blame him for oct 7 and some believe it was carried out with help from isreali govt to create an incident to justify eliminating the palestinians. So nut n yahoo will try to keep this going as long as possible

 

What happens if arab nations take sides? Is usa going to take on the whole world? It will be nuclear if it gets to that point. We are watching a slow motion trainwreck with a retard in the white house and no one even knows who is making the decisions. Biden can barely decide what to have for dinner. 

[geo12the]

 

 

You guys think putin is nuts? He is the least emotional, least impulsive leader I've seen in a while. He invaded ukraine because russian speaking people in the donetsk and lugansk regions were getting shelled by zelensky's forces. They say that some 14,000 civilians were killed in that way from 2012 to 2022. He had a peace deal signed by zelensky in april 2022 but then Z tore it up and decided to fight it out. Bad decision.

 

 

 

Putin is the same guy whose enemies all mysteriously die in plane crashes, falling out of windows and poisonings. Let's look at his record:

 

Yevgeny Prigozhin (2023): The leader of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group who staged a brief mutiny in June, was among 10 people who died when a private plane crashed outside Moscow.

 

Ravil Maganov (2022). Head of Russian oil giant that criticized Ukraine war dies after reportedly falling from hospital window.

 

Alexander Litvinenko (2006): A former officer of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) and a critic of Putin, Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium-210, a radioactive isotope, in London. The UK inquiry into his death concluded that Litvinenko's murder was likely carried out with the approval of the FSB and probably sanctioned by Putin.

 

Sergei and Yulia Skripal (2018): Sergei Skripal, a former Russian military officer and double agent for the UK's intelligence services, and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with Novichok, a nerve agent, in Salisbury, England. The UK government accused Russia of being behind the attack, which the Kremlin has denied.

 

Pyotr Verzilov (2018): A Russian-Canadian artist and activist, Verzilov, associated with the protest group Pussy Riot, suffered suspected poisoning and was treated in Berlin. He suggested the attack was retaliation for his investigation into the deaths of Russian journalists in the Central African Republic.

 

Alexei Navalny (2020): A Russian opposition leader and critic of Putin, Navalny was poisoned with a Novichok nerve agent and fell into a coma while on a flight in Russia. He was later medically evacuated to Germany for treatment. Navalny accused Putin of ordering his poisoning, which the Kremlin denied. He is now held in a Russian jail. 

 

Karina Tsurkan (2018): A former executive at Inter RAO (a Russian state-controlled energy company), Tsurkan was accused of spying for Romania. While she was not poisoned abroad, her case is often discussed alongside others due to alleged forced sedation with psychotropic substances during her detention in Russia.

 

Vladimir Kara-Murza (2015 and 2017): A Russian opposition politician who fell into a coma twice after suspected poisonings. He claimed that he was targeted for his political activities.

 

Alexander Perepilichnyy (2012): A Russian businessman who died in Surrey, UK, after collapsing while jogging. Although a definitive cause of death was not established, there was speculation about possible poisoning due to his involvement in exposing corruption in Russia.

 

Putin is the same guy who stifles freedom in Russia.  Independent television stations and newspapers have been brought under the control of state-owned enterprises or oligarchs loyal to the Kremlin. Laws have been passed to limit foreign ownership of media and to shut down media outlets under the guise of national security. There are all kinds of laws against free speech and free expression in Russia. He has created an environment where open dissent is dangerous and often comes with severe consequences and opposition is marginalized and critical voices are silenced.

 

None of his actions are ones that will create a vibrant and successful Russia. So to divert attention he spins narratives about how Russia is persecuted by the west and starts wars with his neighbors to try and make Russians rally around the flag at home.    

 

So to answer your question "You guys think putin is nuts?" I will say hell yes.

[geo12the]

 

 

What happens if arab nations take sides? Is usa going to take on the whole world? It will be nuclear if it gets to that point. We are watching a slow motion trainwreck with a retard in the white house and no one even knows who is making the decisions. Biden can barely decide what to have for dinner. 

 

The Israeli-Palestinian situation has been a disaster for ages and every few years it flares up. There are no easy solutions.  While I have been critical of Biden and his administration, he has been strong on foreign policy and I think he has done a great job in supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression and threading the needle in the Isreal-Palistine mess. 

[adamh]

@geo12the, yes no doubt some of those deaths were ordered by putin. Most of what you posted was "assumed.. accused.. believed to.." and so on. Enemies of the state often get liquidated but does that make putin nuts or ruthlessly rational? Do you think the usa, britain and other countries don't kill people who get in their way? We kill people in other countries without judicial oversight, just for example, osama bin ladin. He and people defending him were shot down because everyone "knew" he was up to no good. That is just a small tip of the iceberg of what goes on every year.

 

Now lets turn to the freedom of speech angle. Did you know the media in the us and in many western countries is controlled by a few oligarchs? Were you aware that they constantly put out propaganda, whatever is the official narrative. They ignore or massively spin anything that goes against the story they are peddling. ABC, cbs, nbc, cnn, bbc, and many others all seem to march in lockstep. You don't find that strange? If you are buying what they peddle, then no you won't find it odd at all.

 

There are laws in every country against aiding the enemy, revealing state secrets, etc and so on. We have them, they have them, the russians may enforce theirs more severely than we do but there is no real difference

 

You said:

"Laws have been passed to limit foreign ownership of media and to shut down media outlets under the guise of national security. "

 

Boy I wish they would pass some laws like that here. Also some laws against buying up our farmland, land close to military bases and so on. I would like to see thousands of chinese and other countries spies tossed out of here pretending to be students and so on.

 

Prigozhin had many enemies, I find it hard to believe putin would off him in such an obvious way that would bring suspicion on himself. He would wait another 6 months and then an incident in africa perhaps. How many has biden ordered killed? We know of quite a few.

[geo12the]

Interesting video on Russian history:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=4gMrVgIf120

[geo12the]

@geo12the, yes no doubt some of those deaths were ordered by putin. Most of what you posted was "assumed.. accused.. believed to.." and so on. Enemies of the state often get liquidated but does that make putin nuts or ruthlessly rational? Do you think the usa, britain and other countries don't kill people who get in their way? We kill people in other countries without judicial oversight, just for example, osama bin ladin. He and people defending him were shot down because everyone "knew" he was up to no good. That is just a small tip of the iceberg of what goes on every year.

 

Now lets turn to the freedom of speech angle. Did you know the media in the us and in many western countries is controlled by a few oligarchs? Were you aware that they constantly put out propaganda, whatever is the official narrative. They ignore or massively spin anything that goes against the story they are peddling. ABC, cbs, nbc, cnn, bbc, and many others all seem to march in lockstep. You don't find that strange? If you are buying what they peddle, then no you won't find it odd at all.

 

 

 

"Do you think the usa, britain and other countries don't kill people who get in their way?" - This is pretty much the nonsense Trump said and it's false equivalency to say the killing of Bin laden is the same as Putin killing his political enemies. 

 

Media controlled by oligarchs is conspiracy theory stuff. You can get very divergent views. Do you really think that FOX news and MSNBC march in lockstep?  People here can say whatever they want without fear of going to jail like is the case uin Russia and China. That is what makes our country great. Freedom spurs innovation and prosperity. That is why the US is the leader of the world when it comes to science and technology. Now some want to make us more like Russia and instal an orange Putin. When that happens you can kiss freedom and prosperity goodby.  

[adamh]

The video was intersting, provided some history along with a huge dose of propaganda. They took advantage of the native people. Have you ever studied history? All major cultures pushed aside the small indigenous groups. The usa did it, china, europe, africa, and all others. I'm not saying its good to push around other groups but its human nature and has happened throughout history. Those people are russian citizens and get paid for their pelts and their work. The video falsely suggested they were slaves.

 

Then it says russia is responsible for the problems in eastern ukraine??? That is one of the most blatant pieces of propaganda I've seen in a while. Ukraine and the european cosigners broke minsk 1 and minsk 2 which would have settled the problems. The maidan coup in 2014 overthrew yukashenko the democratically elected leader. Since then they have shelled and bombed the donest and lugansk russian speaking areas of ukraine killing a reported 14,000 civilians. Then they made a troop buildup on the borders with those areas and began shelling harder, the plan was to invade and just kill or drive off the russian speakers from the area. Then putin went in, can you blame him?

 

I know you don't like hearing the facts because they go against the lying major media's narrative. All this can be proven but you of course will say its just right wing propaganda even when it comes from liberal sources.

 

You said:

""Do you think the usa, britain and other countries don't kill people who get in their way?" - This is pretty much the nonsense Trump said and it's false equivalency to say the killing of Bin laden is the same as Putin killing his political enemies. "

 

Nonsense? You seem to be extremely naive if you don't think usa and virtually every country kills those it sees as being its enemies and not all of it involves a judge and courtroom. Of course you don't believe that but what about all the bombing and droning obama did? Surely you heard about that? It was not done in wartime it was illegal, it was terrorism which most countries engage in including ours. Our killing of our political enemies like bin laden IS equivalent to putin doing the same

[geo12the]

The video was intersting, provided some history along with a huge dose of propaganda. They took advantage of the native people. Have you ever studied history? All major cultures pushed aside the small indigenous groups. The usa did it, china, europe, africa, and all others. I'm not saying its good to push around other groups but its human nature and has happened throughout history. Those people are russian citizens and get paid for their pelts and their work. The video falsely suggested they were slaves.

 

Then it says russia is responsible for the problems in eastern ukraine??? That is one of the most blatant pieces of propaganda I've seen in a while. Ukraine and the european cosigners broke minsk 1 and minsk 2 which would have settled the problems. The maidan coup in 2014 overthrew yukashenko the democratically elected leader. Since then they have shelled and bombed the donest and lugansk russian speaking areas of ukraine killing a reported 14,000 civilians. Then they made a troop buildup on the borders with those areas and began shelling harder, the plan was to invade and just kill or drive off the russian speakers from the area. Then putin went in, can you blame him?

 

I know you don't like hearing the facts because they go against the lying major media's narrative. All this can be proven but you of course will say its just right wing propaganda even when it comes from liberal sources.

 

You said:

""Do you think the usa, britain and other countries don't kill people who get in their way?" - This is pretty much the nonsense Trump said and it's false equivalency to say the killing of Bin laden is the same as Putin killing his political enemies. "

 

Nonsense? You seem to be extremely naive if you don't think usa and virtually every country kills those it sees as being its enemies and not all of it involves a judge and courtroom. Of course you don't believe that but what about all the bombing and droning obama did? Surely you heard about that? It was not done in wartime it was illegal, it was terrorism which most countries engage in including ours. Our killing of our political enemies like bin laden IS equivalent to putin doing the same

 

There is a lot to unpack here:

 

The Maidan Revolution was a popular movement, involving mass protests and civil unrest. It's viewed as a coup only by Russian sympathizers.

 

Minsk agreements: Lack of full implementation and continued violations are attributed to multiple parties.

 

Putin was the one who fomented the turmoil in eastern Ukraine to use as an excuse for the invasion. It's pretty transparent.

 

Fact is the major media are not lying about this conflict. If you look at the big picture: Maidan revolution, Minsk agreements the breakaway republics, yes the situation is highly complex and the Russians spin the narrative to suit their worldview but this does not take away from the fact that it's clear case of Russian imperialism and hegemony against one of it's neighbors.   Let's not forget Russia has also started wars with Georgia. It has a history of saber rattling and starting wars with former Soviet republics who it views as getting too close to the west. Instead of focusing on making Russia strong, Putin has treated the former Soviet republics as chess pieces to smack down when they don't bow down to Russia. I don't blame Ukraine or Georgia for wanting to forge an independent path and not be vassal countries of Russia . Do you seriously think the countries under Putin's thumb, for example Belarus and Kazakhstan etc.,  will ever truly be prosperous? Let alone free? I would not hold my breath.

 

Yes every country kills it's enemies like we did to Bin Laden. The difference between the US and Russia is that the US president does not kill members of the opposing political party, suffocate the media and free speech and assassinate journalists and dissident citizens. Polonium, nerve poison in Britain, Russian politicians who cross Putin dropping like flies. The killing of enemies is one area where Putin wins. It's one area where he is better than the US. Congratulations!  Putin is a thin skinned out of control maniac murderer obsessed with his distorted view of history and still seething at the dissolution of the Soviet Union.  

 

The Russian people are the ones who suffer most under this maniac. Hot off the presses, the latest casualty is Aleksandra Skochilenko. Sentenced to 7 years in prison for putting anti-war stickers on food! Pathetic. Read more here.

[adamh]

There is a lot to unpack here:

 

The Maidan Revolution was a popular movement, involving mass protests and civil unrest. It's viewed as a coup only by Russian sympathizers.

 

Minsk agreements: Lack of full implementation and continued violations are attributed to multiple parties.

 

Putin was the one who fomented the turmoil in eastern Ukraine to use as an excuse for the invasion. It's pretty transparent.

 

Fact is the major media are not lying about this conflict. If you look at the big picture: Maidan revolution, Minsk agreements the breakaway republics, yes the situation is highly complex and the Russians spin the narrative to suit their worldview but this does not take away from the fact that it's clear case of Russian imperialism and hegemony against one of it's neighbors.   Let's not forget Russia has also started wars with Georgia. It has a history of saber rattling and starting wars with former Soviet republics who it views as getting too close to the west. Instead of focusing on making Russia strong, Putin has treated the former Soviet republics as chess pieces to smack down when they don't bow down to Russia. I don't blame Ukraine or Georgia for wanting to forge an independent path and not be vassal countries of Russia . Do you seriously think the countries under Putin's thumb, for example Belarus and Kazakhstan etc.,  will ever truly be prosperous? Let alone free? I would not hold my breath.

 

Yes every country kills it's enemies like we did to Bin Laden. The difference between the US and Russia is that the US president does not kill members of the opposing political party, suffocate the media and free speech and assassinate journalists and dissident citizens. Polonium, nerve poison in Britain, Russian politicians who cross Putin dropping like flies. The killing of enemies is one area where Putin wins. It's one area where he is better than the US. Congratulations!  Putin is a thin skinned out of control maniac murderer obsessed with his distorted view of history and still seething at the dissolution of the Soviet Union.  

 

The Russian people are the ones who suffer most under this maniac. Hot off the presses, the latest casualty is Aleksandra Skochilenko. Sentenced to 7 years in prison for putting anti-war stickers on food! Pathetic. Read more here.

 

"The Maidan Revolution was a popular movement, involving mass protests and civil unrest. It's viewed as a coup only by Russian sympathizers."

 

They shot at the russian speakers, this is not a popular movement. The democratically elected president yanukovych was overthrown and the zelensky govt ended up in power. Here is a link for you https://www.theguard...r-kiev-conflict

 

"The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all"

 

"Fact is the major media are not lying about this conflict."

 

They are lying, they keep saying russia is losing and ukraine is winning. That is demonstrably false, even the top uke general zaluzhny said ukraine can't win and are in fact losing. Do you still think uke is winning? lol

 

" assassinate journalists and dissident citizens"

 

 BTW have you followed the body count with the clintons? The reporter who broke the story about hillary meeting with that govt official on the tarmac which so embarassed the dems, he ended up dead mysteriously. Along with over 100 other suspicious deaths reputed to the clintons. Why do you think its a joke to say "have evidence that will convict hillary" because it could be death sentence

 

You gloss over the minsk agreements, why? Those were binding treaties that ukraine signed and guaranteed by germany and others. They were protecting the minority rights of russian speakers and they were violated. Not just their rights but their lives were taken away by constant artillery shelling and other violations. But thats all good right?

[geo12the]

 

 

 BTW have you followed the body count with the clintons? 

 

Oh dear we are entering Qanon territory here. This is no credible evidence and this has been debunked. Just because you don't like the Clintons, doesn't mean they are killers like Putin. 

[adamh]

Oh dear we are entering Qanon territory here. This is no credible evidence and this has been debunked. Just because you don't like the Clintons, doesn't mean they are killers like Putin. 

 

There is lots of credible evidence, Just because you are a dedicated liberal does not mean the media tells the truth when it claims to have "debunked" something, it means they are likely covering it up

 

I wrote a long post but deleted it, there is no point in discussing things like this with you

[geo12the]

There is lots of credible evidence, Just because you are a dedicated liberal does not mean the media tells the truth when it claims to have "debunked" something, it means they are likely covering it up

 

I wrote a long post but deleted it, there is no point in discussing things like this with you

 

I am not liberal. Not a progressive. Not a Democrat. I am very pro fiscal responsibility, pro-small business, pro-capitalism, anti-regulation, libertarian on social issues. I am for reality. The problem with today's right wingers is that they make up reality to align with their inner beliefs. Their candidate loses an election so it must be stolen. They hate certain politicians so they must be killers. They just make up stuff they want to hear and it gets repeated in the echo chambers so much they believe it's true. Much as I find the left terrible on actual policy issues and clueless, the right is seriously out of touch with reality. There is no evidence the Clinton's killed all these people just as there was no Pizzagate and Pelosi's husband was not in a relationship with the psycho who attacked him and Trump f'n lost the election.

[geo12the]

the truth when it claims to have "debunked" something, it means they are likely covering it up

 

I wrote a long post but deleted it, there is no point in discussing things like this with you

 

So is FOX news the liberal media? Is OAN the liberal media?  Why haven't they covered this? Or the Republicans? If there is credible evidence the Clinton's are killers why aren't Republicans demanding justice? Are they also Liberal?  Isn't it possible that maybe, just maybe, it's not true? Back to WW3, it's sad to me that there are Americans who like Putin more than their opposing political party. People have become so polarized by slanted news sources and conspiracy theories that they prefer this foreign maniac to people they think of as their political enemies back home. It's truly sad. We may not always agree but we have the freedom to disagree, unlike in Russia. You assumed that just because I challenged you on Putin and don't buy the Clintons are killers story I must be a liberal. But I am just looking for truth. I don't think truth lies in political rabbit holes people go down. 

[Galaxyshock]

A lot of speculation about possible conflict between NATO and Russia in the next 5 to 10 years in the news recently. A Danish military expert speculates that Russia could try to invade Finnish Lapland as means of testing the unity of NATO - are we willing to sacrifice a mostly uninhabitated area in order to avoid World War 3? Also, it's been discussed that if Trump is elected, the United States could even leave NATO leading to loss of the "nuclear umbrella". Then again, Europe should take more responsibility of our own defense I feel.

[Galaxyshock]

A Danish military expert speculates that Russia could try to invade Finnish Lapland as means of testing the unity of NATO - are we willing to sacrifice a mostly uninhabitated area in order to avoid World War 3?

 

Then again what would the excuse for such an invasion be? To save the reindeers from nazis? I guess there would be "better" targets to test NATO and its Article 5.

[Galaxyshock]

Bring it:

 

[adamh]

I laugh at all the feedback saying I'm "ill informed" ha, if you really think so then give some proof or at least a little evidence besides saying "everyone knows" that putin is evil and so on? I strongly think that feedback should not be anonymous. If you are too afraid to back up your statements and debate them, then why hide and snipe at people?

 

The facts are that minsk 1 and 2 were binding treaties that ukraine as well as other european countries signed like germany and france and they did not honor their agreements, they didn't do as promised they broke the agreements completely. Is there solid proof the west was behind the maidan coup? There is a lot of circumstantial evidence but nothing beyond a doubt. We can look at the evidence but no, because "everyone knows"

 

So why is it people are so sure that putin killed all those people? Because "people just know" is the answer I get. The clintons have a body count that last I heard was over 60 people who had offended the clintons or had some dirt on them and died under mysterious circumstances. Lots of unsolved killings and plane crashes and so on. So geo12the is certain the clintons did nothing wrong and usa doesn't kill people overseas despite obama bragging about doing it. He is also "certain" putin did all the things he is accused of. The cia has a long sordid history of fomenting revolutions, installing puppet governments, and... assassinations. Deny it if you dare, I will bring up iran and many many others.

 

I would agree most of the enemies of the russian state that died probably were liquidated, some put in prison. So what? You think if putin was deposed russia would quit the war, give back territories, put putin on trial etc like some fools are demanding. They actually put forward a "peace conference" and invited putin. However the conference would be to discuss zelensky's plan which required russia to totally capitulate, give putin over to the west to stand trial and a lot of other non starters that russia is not going to even consider

 

If putin died, most likely medvedev would become leader, he was president in the past. You think he will be easier to deal with? Anyone who thinks that knows nothing of putin. He has been the bad cop to putins relatively good cop. He has been straining at the leash to progress the war faster. 

 

I have actually put time into studying these things. I do not go by what the major media says and if you don't think they lie a lot and push propaganda, well, just go on thinking that. I have studied the history, the texts of these agreements the history of the war. Dispute what I say with facts if you dare but no, most will hide and snipe from cover. Lets have a little discussion of history vs history fables and what evidence can you muster?

 

Fox news is semi-liberal media. They support the democrat and liberal position, they attack conservatives. They are slightly less liberal than the "mainstream" cbs, nbc, abc, cnn, etc etc etc. They are token opposition. I would start a thread discussing the evidence behind clinton murders, usa killings, and so on but no one has shown the slightest sign of being willing or able to carry on an honest debate. Nope, all we hear is "we just know" and ill informed opinions

[adamh]

Is ww3 about to start? I think it has started already, it just hasn't gotten to the point that nukes are flying, not yet. We are in the prewar stage of ww3, war has not been declared but non nuke missiles and bombs are flying. Countries are being invaded and genocide is being committed by isreal which is planning to invade lebanon right now. Brain dead biden and his warhawk crew are adding fuel to the fire by sending more and more bombs and weapons to isreal. USA is now complicit in genocide, the court at the hague has more or less come out and said it but it will become official in short time

 

All biden had to do was say "we are not sending any more military aide until you stop killing civilians and make a lasting cease fire" Bingo, bombing stops, missiles quit flying, planes and tanks quit shooting because no more bombs and ammo. But no, he is afraid he will lose political support and he is a spineless weasel who only cares about reelection

 

WW3 and the annihilation it will bring can still be stopped but action must be taken now. We are headed right into greater and greater conflict and no one is stopping it, not the dems or gop. I just hope that the cool heads who may still remain in government will step forward and stop the idiot if he wakes up one day and says "we are going to use a small nuke just to show we mean business, that will do it"

[pamojja]

All western NATO states invest in the defeat of Russia. Only further eastern China and weaker southern States remain for the most part neutral. Though at the moment more or less still a proxy war, If that wouldn't escalate to world war 3, then no other conflict could. Russia can't accept defeat.

 

The 2 nukes after World War 2 wasn't what made WWs. But investment of so many Governments.

 

Edited by pamojja, 16 March 2024 - 02:35 PM.