61 replies to this topic

[tarbtl]

Hey guys,

Of all the stimulants I've used (I've tried most!) there is absolutely nothing that matches the anxiety and jitteriness that green tea gives me. It is absolutely unbearable.

I can pop 10mg of Adderall and go straight to sleep but green tea just messes me up real bad. I read about the health effects of green tea and hadn't used it in a long time so I bought some high quality AOR EGCG capsules and thought I'd give it a try. I took ONE cap, which supposedly has almost no caffeine and I am experiencing more anxiety than I ever have in weeks!

Another thing is L-Theanine does absolutely NOTHING in terms of relaxation for me. In fact, I've taken upwards of 1g in one go (on an empty stomach) and it caused the same effect as green tea. (anxiety)

What the heck could be causing this paradoxical reaction in me? I keep hearing such positive things from L-Theanine but I absolutely do NOT respond to it in any which way whatsoever...

In fact I'm making this post out of paranoia... I feel so jittery anxious and paranoid right now. I've never felt this terrible... god..

[Ghostrider]

Humm...really strange. Green tea does not really have any effect on me.

[eldar]

Another thing is L-Theanine does absolutely NOTHING in terms of relaxation for me. In fact, I've taken upwards of 1g in one go (on an empty stomach) and it caused the same effect as green tea. (anxiety)

What the heck could be causing this paradoxical reaction in me? I keep hearing such positive things from L-Theanine but I absolutely do NOT respond to it in any which way whatsoever...

In fact I'm making this post out of paranoia... I feel so jittery anxious and paranoid right now. I've never felt this terrible... god..

I haven't noticed any effect from green tea, but L-Theanine capsules cause the exact same thing for me. First time I tried it was with 400mg, which caused substantially elevated level of anxiety. I wasn't 100% certain that this was due to theanine, so I tried it again, this time with 200mg and the effect was the same, although a bit more subtle as would be expected with a lesser dose.

So it does puzzle me too how L-theanine is supposed to be a relaxing supplement [huh]


Another supplement that I have noticed causing somewhat increased anxiety is lecithin. I suppose this is due to phosphatidylcholine, but this is again a reaction not too commonly associated with this supplement(as far as I know). As I have very limited knowledge on brain chemistry, I have no idea if this could be in some way related to the effect experienced from l-theanine.(i.e do they have some common mechanisms/pathways in which they effect the brain.) Just thought I'd throw it out there if you or other people have experienced this as well.

[platypus]

I get calm mental clarity from green tea, it's lightyears better than caffeine that speeds me up too much and can give me a bit of anxiety. Green tea never did that to me..

[Alpha-Frequency]

L-Theanine can cause anxiety, yes..

[ikaros]

Some rare people have paradoxical reaction to GABA agonists, i.e. they inactivate GABA receptors instead of activating them.

[superpooper]

Sencha/Matcha green tea has as much caffeine as coffee from what I've read.

[salyavin]

I can believe it for matcha as you ingest the leaves, not so sure sencha would be as high.
I drink matcha and gyokuro and it sort of calms me, I've never felt anxiety.

[sutur]

i use half a handfull of gunpowder greentea on a liter of water in the morning and it gives me a kick far stronger that coffee, but not in an unpleasant way. plus i can drink it fast without getting mild stomchache like the one i sometimes get with coffee.

[REGIMEN]

Glancing off of what -ikaros- mentioned: someone I know who has schizophrenic tendencies (unruly "high dopamine type"...how scientific, I know) has a similarly anxiety-inducing response to theanine. Gabapentin also seemed to slow him down for about an hour but then it slingshotted him into a more developed manic state as it wore off.

In terms of Five Element Theory, green tea is cooling which I find can increase bloodflow to areas of the body that may have excess heat entrenched in them. It also is diuretic which (I'm not studied enough in TCM to explain properly) apart from caffeine can add something to the speed of mental activity (my guess is through more efficient coordination of organ systems that have less internal moisture and mucus to shuffle around...having said that your reaction may just be the Dampness reducing action of green tea may be dredging up old unmetabolized fat soluble chemicals or "toxins" on their way out of your system). A number of months ago I couldn't drink green tea (or any caffeinated drink) as it would induce malaise and sometimes also bring on a low level anxiety. I've been prescribed green tea (and green tea mixed with herbs) for certain segments of my treatment from a TCM practitioner along with other herbs and acupuncture. Works just fine now.

Go see some sort of doctor. If you can "pop Adderall before sleep" as casually as you state then you must have some means to a doctor.

[platypus]

I can believe it for matcha as you ingest the leaves, not so sure sencha would be as high.
I drink matcha and gyokuro and it sort of calms me, I've never felt anxiety.

Matcha calms me too, I love the stuff.

[wydell]

Does not green tea have caffeine? And does not caffeine give some people anxiety? I have seen at least one Matcha green tea brand state that one cup of its Matcha has the same amount of caffeine as a cup of coffee. I am sure that other types of green tea are reported to have less caffeine.

I think that the effects of caffeine differ from individual to individual. I usually have about two - four cups of a coffee cocoa combination with stevia and xylitol and and one to three cups of Matcha green tea daily. I subjectively feel a little edgy when the consumption of caffeinated drinks goes past a certain level.

[graatch]

What the heck could be causing this paradoxical reaction in me?

egcg = comt inhibitor = thermogenic, increase in norepinephrine

this is why green tea extract/egcg is sold in weight loss formulations.

I doubt the reaction you get from regular green tea (as opposed to an extract, standardized for egcg) would be as severe.

[tarbtl]

FWIW, I can take caffeine, ephedrine, amphetamines and wellbutrin in various amounts and it has absolutely no effect on anxiety.

In fact, the strangest case is Wellbutrin..which has eliminated my depression and anxiety and has given me confidence like nothing else.

Caffeine also is anxyolitic for me.

The only two things that cause anxiety for me are like I said.. green tea and obviously yohimbine... these two just seem "dirty".... I cringe at the thought of consuming them.

I'll try taking a cap of AOR's egcg with a meal a few times a week just for the health benefit and when the increased anxiety wont be an issue I suppose... what a shame... I bet I have one messssed up neurochemistry.

It would be interesting to make a mega-thread on various substances like phenibut, gaba, ecgc, caffeine, l-theanine, etc. etc. and make people rate them on a scale of 1-10 in terms of ephoria, anxiety, energy, motivation etc. etc. and find some common trends in people's neurochemistry. For instance, phenibut, the first time I took it, was the most euphoric high I have ever experienced in my life...

[graatch]

Strange indeed. Perhaps you have some very interesting COMT genes, eh?

[edward]

tarbtl, how much green tea do you take at one time, also what other plant based supplements do you take, that is supplements containing polyphenols, flavonoids etc etc.

I noticed something when I recently got a little to carried away with my enthusiasm for flavonoids , polyphenols and the like... When I take large amounts or even small amounts but many of these things at one time, things such as: green tea, grape seed, pycnogenol, ginseng, gingko, pomegrante etc etc really any plant based supplement standardized for a high level of bioactive compounds I will get anxiety and in general a "toxic feeling".

Personally I think it has to do with the fact that some people cannot process these chemicals as effectively as others (see the whole under-methylator theory). I have found that spreading out and or lowering the dosages helps alot. Also I have found that taking TMG (tri methyl glycine) as well as B-12, Folic Acid and B-6 a couple times a day, preferably when taking my plant based supplements works wonders, I mean the anxiety/toxic feeling goes away and the full benefits of these supplements are felt.

[TianZi]

I've taken about 350 mg of green tea twice daily (about 700 mg / day; 2 GNC green tea extract capsules twice daily plus small amounts of green tea in other compound supplements I take) for years, and do not feel jittery or otherwise suffer from anxiety from doing so. If I feel anything, it is a slight upswing in energy and mood.

What you are describing sounds like the effect of taking the old Ephedra "stack" pills.

[tomseys]

Just want to relate that I also get extreme anxiety from green tea and to a lesser extent from regular tea. I don't think it's the caffeine because I can get this effect from decaffeinated or low caffeine varieties...tea has other stuff happening like theobromine and thephilline and I think it has something to do with these. I generally try to avoid all the caffeine family related products like chocolate, tea, coffee and cola and when I am able to keep it going I feel very mood stable. Chocolate is another that can really screw me up mood wise, especially the next day... I avoid them all, they are completely unnecessary and very addictive.

[wydell]

I think that I may have had anxiety from Matcha green tea and coffee before. I stopped drinking Matcha due to this suspicion.

Just want to relate that I also get extreme anxiety from green tea and to a lesser extent from regular tea. I don't think it's the caffeine because I can get this effect from decaffeinated or low caffeine varieties...tea has other stuff happening like theobromine and thephilline and I think it has something to do with these. I generally try to avoid all the caffeine family related products like chocolate, tea, coffee and cola and when I am able to keep it going I feel very mood stable. Chocolate is another that can really screw me up mood wise, especially the next day... I avoid them all, they are completely unnecessary and very addictive.

[bigsend]

Just wanted to say that I too get maddening waves of anxiety from drinking green tea. Caffeine generally makes me feel ill at heart, but effects do seem to be worse with green tea than other caffeinated drinks. However if I combine the tea with piracetam, bacopa, or choline then I get a good focusing stack, and the anxiety transitions into clear focused energy. I drink green tea almost every day, and am trying to work through the anxiety by telling myself it is in my head, and breaking down my worries to simple defined problems that can be solved. It might be good training for a truly stressful day in the future. Be aware that anxiety and stress will tax your adrenals over time, and you might start putting weight around your gut. Don't drink too much tea at a time. Also, a hot shower helps ease anxiety bordering on panic.

[bgwithadd]

That's very interesting. Have you tried coca leaf tea? It's legal (In US anyway). I get a lot of calming from it, but also focus, but then theanine calms me quite a bit while green tea seems to do little. I'd be interested to see what taurine does to you, too.

[niner]

Green Tea can be powerful stuff. I started taking 600mg GTE for the purported physical benefits, and found that my motivation was way better. I didn't notice all that much of a mood change, but I just started accomplishing a lot more. It was kind of like when I would get to that tipping point where I decide to take a nap or clean out the garage, before I would take the nap and now I clean out the garage. It's consistent with the COMT inhibitor -> NE increase mentioned by graatch. It's kind of subtle in my case, but very effective; no trouble sleeping or anxiety issues either. Definitely a win for me. It will be nice when all this stuff gets mapped to our various SNPs and we can get a quick gene scan and have the computer spit out an optimized stack. For now it remains trial and error.

[debu]

That's very interesting. Have you tried coca leaf tea? It's legal (In US anyway). I get a lot of calming from it, but also focus, but then theanine calms me quite a bit while green tea seems to do little. I'd be interested to see what taurine does to you, too.

Where are you getting your coca tea now? My old seller (Windsor brand) is out on Amazon. Every regular site I find has a rather suspicious checkout... PM me or respond here anyone with a reputable source. thanks

[DREXX]

I get anxiety too from drinking green tea, I thought I was the only one. I am fine with coffee, caffeine pills, ephedrine but the green tea does it to me when I have more than a cup in a period of a few hours. It is worse when I alternate a coffee, a green tea, a coffee, etc...

[Neuronic]

Interesting, in the past green tea has always had a very high energizing effect on me, more than caffeine alone. However I haven't drunken it in several months and I have been drinking it for several days now and have been really lethargic and also much more anxious. The high level of sleepiness didn't start until I drank it.
I didn't really connect it because it never had made me sleepy. Could be coincidence of course.

I'm also taking nuvigil which was still working great until then, and last few days it seems like it suddenly had stopped working as much.
I drink very dark green tea, so maybe it's too much. I'm talking dark green here.
I will stop drinking the tea and write back if I feel more energetic.

[xzibit]

I also got wicked anxiety from theanine i took a few days ago. A 200mg cap, first time trying it, about an hour later i got a huge rush of anxiety bordering panic. It gradually faded, a few hours later my mood picked up sharply, then decreased again. A paradoxical reaction. It seems to act in waves, totally weird.
I did take my first phenibut the previous night which completely messed up my sleep. I never tried green tea and have no problem with caffeine. So much for anti-anxiety nootropics.
I guess theanine is not for everyone

[Solitude]

I'm surprised to see how common this is. I have a family member who gets quite significant anxiety and elevated heart rate from green tea - even one sip will do it, and the effect comes on quite quickly.

Black tea is no problem, coffee makes him jittery (from the caffeine), but it's not the same effect that green tea has.

[Xeno]

Echoing some of the above - drinking gyokuro (a tea used to make matcha,) or to a lesser extent, white tea, makes me feel like an absolute god. Calm, focused, alert, capable, and a host of other really good adjectives. Cheap green tea, by contrast, makes me want to just crawl out of my skin. It's like a 30 minute stim with several hours of hyperventilatory distress afterward. Pointless. For awhile I was spending $80 a month on gyokuro alone. If I had the cash right now, I still would. Gyokuro is naturally high in theanine anyway, but I would sometimes add powdered theanine to my expensive cup of tea. I'm willing to bet that's what it feels like to be Buddha.

Anyway, that's my tea-rant. If anyone's curious, I can put you on to my source for gyokuro.

[snow leopard]

strange, I take l-theanine supplements, around 200mg-400mg in the morning, and 100mg in the afternoon for GAD. really calms me down, however if I take to much say 600mg in one dose it can have the opposite effect for me.