63 replies to this topic

[lucid]

We did such a good job with discussing increasing Resveratrol Bio-Availability, I was wondering why not dissuss similiar techniques in regard to curcumin where as it suffers from the same problems as Resveratrol, namesly: low water soluability in PH acidic and neutral solutions, quick metabolism, all resulting in low bio-availibility.

Curcumin is proven to be very effective in inducing apoptosis in cancer cells in vitro where we can bypass metabolism by introducing curcumin directly into a cell culture:

Polymeric nanoparticle-encapsulated curcumin ("nanocurcumin"): a novel strategy for human cancer therapy.Bisht S, Feldmann G, Soni S, Ravi R, Karikar C, Maitra A, Maitra A.The Sol Goldman Pancreatic Cancer Research Center, Department of Pathology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland, USA. sbisht1@jhmi.edu

BACKGROUND: Curcumin, a yellow polyphenol extracted from the rhizome of turmeric (Curcuma longa), has potent anti-cancer properties as demonstrated in a plethora of human cancer cell line and animal carcinogenesis models. Nevertheless, widespread clinical application of this relatively efficacious agent in cancer and other diseases has been limited due to poor aqueous solubility, and consequently, minimal systemic bioavailability. Nanoparticle-based drug delivery approaches have the potential for rendering hydrophobic agents like curcumin dispersible in aqueous media, thus circumventing the pitfalls of poor solubility. RESULTS: We have synthesized polymeric nanoparticle encapsulated formulation of curcumin - nanocurcumin - utilizing the micellar aggregates of cross-linked and random copolymers of N-isopropylacrylamide (NIPAAM), with N-vinyl-2-pyrrolidone (VP) and poly(ethyleneglycol)monoacrylate (PEG-A). Physico-chemical characterization of the polymeric nanoparticles by dynamic laser light scattering and transmission electron microscopy confirms a narrow size distribution in the 50 nm range. Nanocurcumin, unlike free curcumin, is readily dispersed in aqueous media. Nanocurcumin demonstrates comparable in vitro therapeutic efficacy to free curcumin against a panel of human pancreatic cancer cell lines, as assessed by cell viability and clonogenicity assays in soft agar. Further, nanocurcumin's mechanisms of action on pancreatic cancer cells mirror that of free curcumin, including induction of cellular apoptosis, blockade of nuclear factor kappa B (NFkappaB) activation, and downregulation of steady state levels of multiple pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-6, IL-8, and TNFalpha). CONCLUSION: Nanocurcumin provides an opportunity to expand the clinical repertoire of this efficacious agent by enabling ready aqueous dispersion. Future studies utilizing nanocurcumin are warranted in pre-clinical in vivo models of cancer and other diseases that might benefit from the effects of curcumin.

I was hoping that we could discuss how the techniques might help in improving curcumin bio-availibility. (I will also mention here that curcumin is implicated in possible altzheimers prevention and otherwise cognitive improvements so that it might be useful to those not interested in cancer prevention)

Ways to improve bio-availibility:

1: Co-supplementation with 20 mg of piperine (extracted from black pepper) significantly increased the absorption of curcumin by 2000%.
Peperine is what is used in the LEF brand enhanced curcumin, but it heavily interacts with other meds one may be taking, and I believe is generally frowned upon here.

2: Disolve in oil Curcumin is fully soluable in oil. Ideally we would want the smallest particles possible. Perhaps someone is more familiar with the mechanics of how something like curcumin would be 'disolved' in an oil. I'm not sure if it would disolve in a similiar manner as it would in ethanol, or whether a lipid emulsion would form where lipid droplets form around the drug. Either way, disolving in oil is a good way to go, however reducing particle size before hand may be important. This is probably the most practical method if you are going to put curcumin in a food dish.

3: Ethanol + PEG 3350 This should work just as well in curcumin as it does in resveratrol. Directions: Disolve curcumin in ethanol (everclear will do), then mix in a PEG3350 (miralax) and water solution.


4: DMSO Curcumin should dislove well in DMSO.

[health_nutty]

Some other ideas:

1) Use the whole root powder instead of an extract. Apparently there is some clinical research that shows that is the basis for lef's new turmeric formula:
http://search.lef.or...x...S curcumin

2) Dissolve in lecithin solution.

Probably the most effective way to take this supplement is in a curry dish. To make curry, you first dissolve the whole root turmeric powder in oil in a pan then add the rest of the food. As much as I love indian food, its not practical for me to do this every day.

I've been taking whole turmeric powder in a lecithin soy milk solution.

[stephen_b]

What happens in the digestive system to hydrophobic supplements like curcumin or resveratrol when you take them orally in oil? Does it come out of solution in the stomach and undo everything?

I've mixed 2 g of transresveratrol with about 4-6 grams of raw chocolate powder in a tablespoon of cod liver oil. Both seem to go down the hatch in solution, but I don't know what happens afterward.

I found a mention of curcumin at this site which states

Other substances which down-regulate NFkB, an item associated with inflammation and resistance to cell death, are curcumin (must be dissolved in oil to be absorbed well -- you can break open a capsule and dissolve in a few drops of olive oil -- or dissolve in peanut butter)and resveratrol, a naturally occuring phenolic fungicide in grapes (and wine).

Hmm, peanut butter might be another idea worth pursuing.

Stephen

[chennai01]

Life Extension claims that their new curcumin forumulation has greater bioavailability than Curcumin w/ Bioperine:

http://www.lef.org/m...curcumin_01.htm

Edited by chennai01, 11 December 2007 - 10:54 PM.

[luv2increase]

My response to this thread that more of something good in novel quantities isn't such a good thing. People have been getting excellent results with curcumin just how it is, in its extracted form. I take one Now Curcumin daily. I haven't had any problems and feel generally well.

[lucid]

My response to this thread that more of something good in novel quantities isn't such a good thing. People have been getting excellent results with curcumin just how it is, in its extracted form. I take one Now Curcumin daily. I haven't had any problems and feel generally well.

Well, especially for people with cancer: The idea is to achieve blood serum levels near those which induced apoptosis in 'in vitro' studies.

Life Extension claims that their new curcumin forumulation has greater bioavailability than Curcumin w/ Bioperine:

http://www.lef.org/m...curcumin_01.htm

Interesting, I can't find them explaining what bcm-95 is other than a 'novel curcumin delivery system'. Therefore it is likely something simple that we can do on our own.

Some other ideas:

1) Use the whole root powder instead of an extract. Apparently there is some clinical research that shows that is the basis for lef's new turmeric formula:
http://search.lef.or...x...S curcumin

2) Dissolve in lecithin solution.

Probably the most effective way to take this supplement is in a curry dish. To make curry, you first dissolve the whole root turmeric powder in oil in a pan then add the rest of the food. As much as I love indian food, its not practical for me to do this every day.

I've been taking whole turmeric powder in a lecithin soy milk solution.

Sounds good about taking it in curry dishes.
How does it taste in a soy milk? That doesn't sound too appetizing

[health_nutty]

Sounds good about taking it in curry dishes.
How does it taste in a soy milk? That doesn't sound too appetizing

Yes, it's more of a chugging drink than a sipping drink

[stephen_b]

I just mixed up a capsule of LEF's 'super bio curcumin' with a teaspoon of raw cocoa and a gram of resveratrol into a tablespoon of cod liver oil. It seemed to dissolve just fine.

Taste? Yummy, actually. Like chocolate, Mayan style.

Stephen

[niner]

For what it's worth, BCM-95 is a 95% curcuminoid extract product from Arjuna Natural Extracts Ltd. As for its content, they offer the following pure, unadulterated BS:

Biocurcumax™, the inventive product derived through an inventive process as part of process re-engineering. Biocurcumax™ is 100% Turmeric Extract .Biocurcumax™ offers a unique technique and concept to significantly enhance the bio-availability and thus the bio-activity retained for a longer period at an appreciably higher level as compared to conventional curcumin for enhanced efficacy, safety and usage convenience.

So that tells us exactly nothing. For very little extra info, see http://www.arjunanat...biocurcumax.htm

[lucid]

Hmmm. It's apparently patented, I haven't had any luck finding their patent though.

[health_nutty]

Hmmm. It's apparently patented, I haven't had any luck finding their patent though.

Quote from LEF article. This is why I'm just taking the whole root (see my method 1):

"How did the inventors of this patent-pending curcumin achieve this breakthrough? Rather than focusing on further purification of curcumin and curcuminoids derived from turmeric (usually marketed as “95% curcumin/curcuminoids”), the formulators went back to the “roots,” so to speak, reincorporating many of the components of raw turmeric root—which are normally removed during the extraction process—and greatly enhancing the bioavailability of active constituents in the process. In essence, this revolutionary reformulation relies on the inherent synergy of the turmeric rhizome’s natural components to dramatically enhance bioavailability."

[luv2increase]

I don't buy it, the LEF crap that is. I will continue taking my curcumin and resveratrol mixed in olive oil. My curcumin doesn't have the piperine in it either.

[krillin]

Quote from LEF article. This is why I'm just taking the whole root (see my method 1):

"How did the inventors of this patent-pending curcumin achieve this breakthrough? Rather than focusing on further purification of curcumin and curcuminoids derived from turmeric (usually marketed as “95% curcumin/curcuminoids”), the formulators went back to the “roots,” so to speak, reincorporating many of the components of raw turmeric root—which are normally removed during the extraction process—and greatly enhancing the bioavailability of active constituents in the process. In essence, this revolutionary reformulation relies on the inherent synergy of the turmeric rhizome’s natural components to dramatically enhance bioavailability."

I just had a funny thought. Puritan's Pride has a deceptive practice with several of their herbal products. For example, their Pomegranate Extract 250 is actually 50 mg extract plus 200 mg pomegranate seed. They do the same thing with curcumin: only 50 mg out of 500 is actual extract, but that might turn out to be better than pure extract!

[Brainbox]

How does it taste in a soy milk? That doesn't sound too appetizing

I put a heaping teaspoon of whole-root powder in my morning shake, it's noticeable that way, but not to bad.

[health_nutty]

How does it taste in a soy milk? That doesn't sound too appetizing

I put a heaping teaspoon of whole-root powder in my morning shake, it's noticeable that way, but not to bad.

What else do you put in your shake?

[Brainbox]

Depends.

Basis is whey / soy protein with oats.

Depending on taste I add fruits (berries, banana) or tomato puree with other veggies, all blended together. With the veggie alternative the curcumin is even a feature taste-wise.

Edit: I forgot the quarter teaspoon black pepper.

Edited by brainbox, 12 December 2007 - 10:42 PM.

[stephen_b]

Where are people getting their whole root powder?

Stephen

[Brainbox]

Groceries...

[krillin]

I put a heaping teaspoon of whole-root powder in my morning shake, it's noticeable that way, but not to bad.

A teaspoon sounds reasonable.

One teaspoon = 2.3 g.

Average dietary intake of turmeric in the Indian population may range between 2 to 2.5 grams

Southeast Asian J Trop Med Public Health. 2001 Mar;32(1):208-15.
Phase II clinical trial on effect of the long turmeric (Curcuma longa Linn) on healing of peptic ulcer.
Prucksunand C, Indrasukhsri B, Leethochawalit M, Hungspreugs K.
Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, Siriraj Hospital, Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand.

The study examined patients who had symptoms indicating peptic ulcer. Forty-five patients, 24 males and 21 females, aged between 16-60 years were included in the study. Twenty-five patients, 18 males and 7 females, were endoscoped, their ulcers located in the duodenal bulb and gastric (angulus). The ulcer sizes varied between 0.5 to 1.5 cm in diameter. Capsule-filled turmeric was given orally in the dose of 2 capsules (300 mg each) five times daily, one half to an hour before meals, at 16.00 hours and at bedtime continuously. The result after 4 weeks of treatment showed that ulcers were absent in 48% or 12 cases (DU 9 and GU 3). Eighteen cases (DU 13 and GU 5) had absence of ulcer after 8 weeks of treatment. Nineteen cases (76%) (DU 14 and GU 5) did not have ulcers after 12 weeks of treatment. The rest, 20 cases were not found to have ulcers and some were not endoscoped. They appeared to have erosions, gastritis and dyspepsia. They received turmeric capsules for 4 weeks of treatment. The abdominal pain and discomfort satisfactorily subsided in the first and second week. They could take normal foods instead of soft meals. Blood chemistry and hematology of all 54 patients had no significant changes in hematological system, liver and renal functions both before and after treatment.

PMID: 11485087

[technico]

I've been taking the standard drug store Turmeric 450mg - which also has 50mg of extract @95% curcuminoids for about 6 months.

To keep it down, I take it with my cinnamon 500mg, ginseng complex and an Omega complex. No problems with backflash.


it seems to be even gentler if I take the probiotic at least an hour before.

Nico

[health_nutty]

Yes, it's more of a chugging drink than a sipping drink

I just tried the following and it tastes great:

1 tablespoon of turmeric powder
1 teaspoon of cinnamon powder
1 cup of soy milk
1 tsp of lecithin

The cinnamon makes a huge difference.

[malbecman]

That's nice to know, plus cinnamon has its own health benefits. Thanks!

Yes, it's more of a chugging drink than a sipping drink

I just tried the following and it tastes great:

1 tablespoon of turmeric powder
1 teaspoon of cinnamon powder
1 cup of soy milk
1 tsp of lecithin

The cinnamon makes a huge difference.

[sUper GeNius]

I use NSI curcumin with Bioperine. I think that this is a potent anti-inflamatory agent. In an earlier post of mine, many months ago, (how do you find old posts?) I mentioned that I believed that I might have the beginnings of MS. I have happily discovered that heavy dosing for a few days during a time that I am having symptoms, this dosing seems to stop the progression cold. I might take 5 grams a day for three or four days.

[krillin]

I use NSI curcumin with Bioperine. I think that this is a potent anti-inflamatory agent. In an earlier post of mine, many months ago, (how do you find old posts?) I mentioned that I believed that I might have the beginnings of MS. I have happily discovered that heavy dosing for a few days during a time that I am having symptoms, this dosing seems to stop the progression cold. I might take 5 grams a day for three or four days.

I use Google Advanced Search to find old posts. Here's your old post.

[MP11]

Does cooking turmeric with high heat reduce denature it or ruin its beneficial properties?

[aikikai]

Question; In India, the people there have low numbers of cancer, mostly liver cancer, due to the daily intake of curry (curcumin). My question is if curcumin has extremely low bioavailability, then why does normal curcumin intake from food seem to be enough for health benefits? I don't see the reason to buy curcumin which is "bioavailability".

Edited by aikikai, 02 October 2008 - 04:59 PM.

[edward]

Question; In India, the people there have low numbers of cancer, mostly liver cancer, due to the daily intake of curry (curcumin). My question is if curcumin has extremely low bioavailability, then why does normal curcumin intake from food seem to be enough for health benefits? I don't see the reason to buy curcumin which is "bioavailability".

If you are taking in your curcumin in the form of curry you are ingesting it with a decent amount of fat in which a lot of the curcumin is already dissolved (curcumin is fat soluble and thus this will increase absorption), many other spices including peppers will be in your meal(so there will be some cytochrome p450 inhibition, and other enzymes, as these are metabolized, just like piperine leading to increased blood levels). So you are getting more than say taking the same amount of spice on an empty stomach in the form of a pill. The amount of other herbs and spices in the Indian diet probably contributes to cancer differences (along with many other things like less Krispy Kremes, Ho Hos, Big Gulps and Ding Dongs, greater physical activity etc etc.) its not all curcumin.

Edited by edward, 03 October 2008 - 03:30 AM.

[Mia K.]

I've been taking turmeric/curcumin in various forms since undergoing major knee surgery a couple of yrs ago: lef, Jarrow, NSI, Nature's Herbs namely; I've been changing up hoping to maximize the herbs' effectiveness.

Just received yesterday New Chapter's "Full-Spectrum Turmeric turmeric force" so this topic is quite timely for me. From the bottle (any typos mine):

...Turmericforce tm is the world's first and only supercritical full-spectrum extract. We take our full-spectrum turmeric, and without chemical solvents or heat stress, concentate radiant turmeric oils as much as 200:1. This is combined with a full-spectrum ethanolic extract that potency assures it for at least 11% of the full curcuminoid fractions. >P This is not a mere isolate of standardized turmeric, offering just one or more of the curcuminoids. This is turmeric's full healing glory.


Well! Now how could I pass up turmeric's "full healing glory" eh? An intriguing mix of science and pop-yoga lingo.

Any thoughts on this product, process? I've also read of an Ayurvedic "turmeric paste" made of simmering the kitchen-grade herb with water which is then used in various fat/oil containing preparations. Certainly economical if not gastronomic.

Thanks, all. (Oh, and as to the knee surgery for the curious --> I recommend you avoid race-walking in the rain, but if you insist Please avoid all slippery decorative tile. Read: O-U-C-H)

Best, MK

Edited by Mia K., 03 October 2008 - 01:02 PM.

[wayside]

Question; In India, the people there have low numbers of cancer, mostly liver cancer, due to the daily intake of curry (curcumin).

I always wonder how accurately statistics like this are reported from other countries.

[graatch]

Turmeric itself (the whole substance) isn't just curcumin; it contains some phenolic antioxidants (many of them awesome, like caffeic acid) which themselves often play around with various Cytochrome P450 enzymes.

Edited by graatch, 03 October 2008 - 08:43 PM.