37 replies to this topic

[luv2increase]

BPAP aka R-(-)-1-(benzofuran-2-yl)-2-propylaminopentane

I am on a quest of halting every facet of the aging process. I believe a multi-faceted approach is absolutely necessary in successfully doing so. I also believe that right now, the power to do so is in our grasps, right in front of us, yet we are blind to see it and the long-term clinical studies aren't possible to authenticate the ability to halt aging.

I am theorizing that with this combination and an aggressive anti-oxidant, supplementation regimen alongside an exercise program which is not too conducive to overtraining, a life-style devoid of body defiling activies, proper rest, an all organic, balanced diet, meditation, period juice fasting, infrared sauna utilization, good relationship or marriage, and an overall positive outlook on life can live up to 250 years old or there round about.

Back to the original question. Anyone with any experience with BPAP mixed with selegiline of any form?

PPAP sounds interesting as well. Maybe a low-dose combination of deprenyl, BPAP, and PPAP?
http://www3.intersci...n...=1&SRETRY=0

An interesting note on deprenyl and ALS:
http://www.informawo...14069749~db=all

Another interesting one on deprenyl and methamphetamine:


Here are some interesting links:

http://www.smart-pub...s/MOM-knoll.php

http://www.springerl...p15230653454r6/

http://www.sciencedi...4559741904ed80c

http://www.sciencedi...513168020a8f983

http://www.sciencedi...7b28eb074462040

http://www.sciencedi...85a8214d2e8e757

http://www.sciencedi...a6a05d2a797990e

http://www.sciencedi...475bf5516705ebf

http://www.sciencedi...2ae9de44b20d5c0

http://www.ncbi.nlm....;indexed=google

http://www.sciencedi...ddcfdb8fbde8565


There are many more. Go to pubmed or google scholar to learn more. Happy reading.

[tintinet]

BPAP aka R-(-)-1-(benzofuran-2-yl)-2-propylaminopentane

I am on a quest of halting every facet of the aging process. I believe a multi-faceted approach is absolutely necessary in successfully doing so. I also believe that right now, the power to do so is in our grasps, right in front of us, yet we are blind to see it and the long-term clinical studies aren't possible to authenticate the ability to halt aging.

I am theorizing that with this combination and an aggressive anti-oxidant, supplementation regimen alongside an exercise program which is not too conducive to overtraining, a life-style devoid of body defiling activies, proper rest, an all organic, balanced diet, meditation, period juice fasting, infrared sauna utilization, good relationship or marriage, and an overall positive outlook on life can live up to 250 years old or there round about.

Back to the original question. Anyone with any experience with BPAP mixed with selegiline of any form?

PPAP sounds interesting as well. Maybe a low-dose combination of deprenyl, BPAP, and PPAP?
http://www3.intersci...n...=1&SRETRY=0

An interesting note on deprenyl and ALS:
http://www.informawo...14069749~db=all

Another interesting one on deprenyl and methamphetamine:


Here are some interesting links:

http://www.smart-pub...s/MOM-knoll.php

http://www.springerl...p15230653454r6/

http://www.sciencedi...4559741904ed80c

http://www.sciencedi...513168020a8f983

http://www.sciencedi...7b28eb074462040

http://www.sciencedi...85a8214d2e8e757

http://www.sciencedi...a6a05d2a797990e

http://www.sciencedi...475bf5516705ebf

http://www.sciencedi...2ae9de44b20d5c0

http://www.ncbi.nlm....;indexed=google

http://www.sciencedi...ddcfdb8fbde8565


There are many more. Go to pubmed or google scholar to learn more. Happy reading.

I've been taking low dose selegeline/deprenyl for years. Got some BPAP in my cupboard, but I've been too lazy, thus far, to mix it up. The few individuals of whom I know who claim to be taking BPAP, AFAIK, have switched from deprenyl to BPAP, but I haven't heard of anyone claiming to be using both simultaneously.

Edited by tintinet, 14 December 2007 - 02:46 AM.

[luv2increase]

From all the information that I have gathered thus far has made me believe that it is definitely better to combine the two. Also, to use the two indefinitely from the point of sexual maturation.

Edited by luv2increase, 14 December 2007 - 04:04 AM.

[luv2increase]

Here are two links with a lot of good information on l-deprenyl.


http://www.smart-dru...-deprenylJS.htm
http://www.deprenyl.net/

[Shepard]

I am theorizing that with this combination and an aggressive anti-oxidant, supplementation regimen alongside an exercise program which is not too conducive to overtraining, a life-style devoid of body defiling activies, proper rest, an all organic, balanced diet, meditation, period juice fasting, infrared sauna utilization, good relationship or marriage, and an overall positive outlook on life can live up to 250 years old or there round about.

Why'd you decide to stop at 250? If we're throwing stuff together and dreaming, might as well dream big.

[luv2increase]

I am theorizing that with this combination and an aggressive anti-oxidant, supplementation regimen alongside an exercise program which is not too conducive to overtraining, a life-style devoid of body defiling activies, proper rest, an all organic, balanced diet, meditation, period juice fasting, infrared sauna utilization, good relationship or marriage, and an overall positive outlook on life can live up to 250 years old or there round about.

Why'd you decide to stop at 250? If we're throwing stuff together and dreaming, might as well dream big.

I am going off the substances that we have available to us as of this moment in time. Sure, within those 250 years, better chemicals will be synthesized. According to Dr. Knoll, it all has to do with "slowing the age-related decay of the mesencephalic enhancer regulation". I don't believe we have powerful enough stuff yet to accomplish this indefinitely. Yet, with deprenyl combined with BPAP at the 'optimal' dosages along with the regimen above, 250 could probably be possible. That is, is if the person starts the regimen close to the age of sexual maturation. I'm 24 now, so I figure I'm close enough.

[zoolander]

Aaron, if your taking deprenyl at the moment then I advise you back off on the dose big guy because your tripping. Did you say 250 years of age? I'm with Shep. Where did you get that number from? If you are theorizing then how you suppose that we will live until 250. What not 3-fiddy??

[luv2increase]

Aaron, if your taking deprenyl at the moment then I advise you back off on the dose big guy because your tripping. 250. What not 3-fiddy??

lol

[zoolander]

Give me 3-fiddy. 3-f.i.d.d.y

[krillin]

Give me 3-fiddy. 3-f.i.d.d.y

I ain't giving you no treefiddy you #$%& Loch Ness monster! Get your own #$%& money!

[zoolander]

Tree fiddy

[luv2increase]

I found a source for BPAP. I figure at 20mcg a day, which would equate to two drops from a dropper from the 30ml solution containing 8mg of BPAP that it comes in, it would last 150 days. It would cost $150. So that is $1 a day obviously. Not bad. I don't think that you would want to go too far above this dosage, especially if you are taking deprenyl concurrently.

Edited by luv2increase, 16 December 2007 - 08:37 AM.

[zoolander]

Please be careful Aaron. You are playing with fire if you ask me. You initially discussed putting together the best regime to maximize you chance of living to 250. Don't forget to add harm minimisation into that regime. If you are considering pushing the boundries of how long you can live with these pharmaceuticals know that the research is not all that conclusive.

[stephen_b]

I've attached a paper titled "Use Of The Synthetic Enhancer Substances (-)-Deprenyl And (-)-Bpap In Major Depression" that I found on the net.

From the published interview with Knoll, Knoll makes this response to a question posed him about mixed results at replicating the maximum lifespan enhancements seen in animals given deprenyl:

Our finding that deprenyl prolongs life was corroborated in mice, in rats, in hamsters, and in dogs. Nevertheless, variation in the extent of the prolongation of life between the longevity studies performed in different laboratories was unusually high. The reason for this variation is now clear. A bell-shaped concentration effect curve is characteristic to the enhancer effect of the synthetic mesencephalic enhancer substances. Thus, there is an optimal dose for the enhancer effect. ... We know now that 0.01 milligrams per kilogram of deprenyl is sufficient to exert an enhancer effect. Thus the 0.5 milligrams per kilogram dose was obviously enormously high, and this explains why Kitani and colleagues found no sign of the significant extension in the longest survival which appeared in our studies and in the Milgram et al. study.

Everything has an inverted U-shaped response, and deprenyl is not a selective inhibitor of MAO-b at higher doses, perhaps accounting for the variable results at higher dosages in animals.

BPAP, along with being more active at smaller doses then deprenyl, has no MAO inhibition at all and results in no amphetamine being created. My hope with BPAP is that the lack of MAO inhibition translates to less uncertainty in finding the sweet spot of the U-curve and greater safety, as Knoll suggests. Longevity studies would be nice too.

StephenB

Attached Files

•  0404_KOZL5.pdf   152.31KB   75 downloads

[OneScrewLoose]

U know, you gave me a lot of shit for a regimen I had a couple months ago, and you give other people shit too. And then you go and do this. Argue all the research you want, but you are still playing with fire. It seems just a little hypocritical.

And, why the hell do you want to live so long? This life to me feels like I'm just passing through something in the steps of existence. Are you a materialist (philosophically)? I wouldn't want to live that long.

It seems to me anyway, that a lot of the life-extension people on this forum will receive has already been spent researching supps, taking supps, and working for the money to buy the supps. Seems to all even out in the end to me.

[StrangeAeons]

The antidepressant potential for this thing is truly next-gen; the idea of selectively augmenting only those pathways which are being stimulated is very fascinating; The implication is that it would be less likely to cause erratic mood swings or personality shifts; on the other hand use in the psychotic or even prodromal psychotic could potentiate the signalling of, well... disaster. It's a little difficult to figure out exactly how it will be different from traditional antidepressants, especially the MAOI's.

Regardless, I've never been all that sold on selegiline for longevity, and if a single doctor initiates a life extension regimen consisting of only one thing, it triggers all kinds of red flags in my head. In the case of selegiline, you're either taking it for noot/mood effects or you're taking it for longevity. The doses for longevity are unlikely to have that much of an effect on your experience; the paper cited about implies you would have to weigh ~220lbs. to justify a 1mg/day dose of deprenyl for LE.
As per BPAP and LE: I think the speculation over this stuff is ridiculous; there's all this speculation about the stuff being a wonder drug, but I don't see a single thing here talking about what actually happens when you give this stuff to people. A lot of things can look like wonder drugs until something you couldn't predict happens and things go terribly wrong. That's why we perform drug trials in people, and not in vitro.

Edited by PetaKiaRose, 27 January 2009 - 06:12 AM.

[stephen_b]

OneScrewLoose, who are you talking to? Sounds like you hit a rough patch -- sorry about that.

[StrangeAeons]

OneScrewLoose, who are you talking to? Sounds like you hit a rough patch -- sorry about that.

If you've seen enough of Luv2Increase's posts it's pretty obvious that he's calling the dude a hypocrite. L2I can be a bit of a douchebag to those he considers n00bs, even if they happen to know what they're talking about.

EDIT:
OneScrewLoose, I should mention that we're at the ImmInst, so critiquing the quest for longevity is really discussed more extensively in the Philosophy & Immortalism forum; but it sounds like you're pretty depressed right now. I think if you manage to find the solutions you're looking for here in terms of your mood (something I'm dealing with quite a bit myself) you'll find the general prospect of holding on to life for as long as possible much more appealing.
I just don't think the particular method espoused here is a remotely good idea.

Edited by PetaKiaRose, 27 January 2009 - 07:30 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

OneScrewLoose, who are you talking to? Sounds like you hit a rough patch -- sorry about that.

If you've seen enough of Luv2Increase's posts it's pretty obvious that he's calling the dude a hypocrite. L2I can be a bit of a douchebag to those he considers n00bs, even if they happen to know what they're talking about.

EDIT:
OneScrewLoose, I should mention that we're at the ImmInst, so critiquing the quest for longevity is really discussed more extensively in the Philosophy & Immortalism forum; but it sounds like you're pretty depressed right now. I think if you manage to find the solutions you're looking for here in terms of your mood (something I'm dealing with quite a bit myself) you'll find the general prospect of holding on to life for as long as possible much more appealing.
I just don't think the particular method espoused here is a remotely good idea.

I am a little depressed. I used to be extremely depressed, but meditation really helped with that. Now it's mostly the underlying anxiety I'm dealing with.

My desire of not living forever/for so long doesn't have to do with a desire to die/being depressed. It's just that through the way I see the world, I feel this life is the beginning of existence, not the end of it. I can't prove it, but it just makes sense to me (maybe I'll go to the philosophy forum and explain why, if you're curious). So my fear isn't death, I could drop dead at sixty for all I care. My fear is not living a worthy life in between, as I believe what we do now effects what's next. I don't know what constitutes "worthy" either, but I think that's why we're here. Also, I'm not religious, these are just musings and ideas.

I will be looking into "life extension" regimens though, but only because often life extension supps and supps for general health seem to go hand-in-hand. I do want to be as healthy as possible while I am alive.

[mikeinnaples]

If you've seen enough of Luv2Increase's posts it's pretty obvious that he's calling the dude a hypocrite. L2I can be a bit of a douchebag to those he considers n00bs, even if they happen to know what they're talking about.

I dont post nearly as much as I read, but I concur with this. Luv2Increase is pretty much a douchebag to other people most of the time.

[stephen_b]

This was a resurrected thread. Douchebag or no (and yes I'm familiar with his posting 'style'), the last time luv2increase posted in it was 2007. For my part, I'd value some discussion of deprenyl and BPAP.

[StrangeAeons]

Well for one, I would avoid synergistic interactions in my regimen with substances that have yet to be combined and studied in a clinical setting, much less a substance that appears to have no data in humans whatsoever. Right now BPAP's value is highly theoretical; some people here like being human test tubes, but it's hardly in the spirit of life-extension. Even if the stuff does have life extension properties, it's likely only through 1 or 2 aspects of SENS, or a genetic component; diminished all-cause mortality seems a little unlikely.

[stephen_b]

Those are good points, yet BPAP is at least potentially safer than deprenyl, partly since it isn't an MAO inhibitor. The question is at what point does the potential benefits of an intervention outweigh its risks? For myself, I've choosen to take 1 mg of deprenyl citrate per day. I haven't decided to take BPAP yet, but I'm certainly keeping an eye on it.

BTW, I found the full text of this paper, "(-)1-(Benzofuran-2-yl)-2-propylaminopentane, [(-)BPAP], a selective enhancer of the impulse propagation mediated release of catecholamines and serotonin in the brain", published online.

StephenB

[luv2increase]

This was a resurrected thread. Douchebag or no (and yes I'm familiar with his posting 'style'), the last time luv2increase posted in it was 2007. For my part, I'd value some discussion of deprenyl and BPAP.

Wow. I am surprised by the antics here. I haven't posted since right before the Presidential Election, and I have people calling me a douchbag in a thread that I haven't posted in since 2007. A thread that I had high hopes would lead to some life-extending discussions. Instead, I just happen to browse the forums today and see this. I am in shock and awe by the immaturity exhibited here by a few members. Really, if you want to live a long time, I would sincerely hope that you would learn to live by the saying, "love thy neighbor".

Thanks for your post stephen_b. It was the only logical one posted since the last post in 07.


Ok, instead of turning my thread from long ago where nothing negative whatsoever was written, let's get back to the true heart of the discussion as stephen_b pointed out.


Does anyone know of anyone who has taken BPAP in conjunction with Selegiline or by itself? I don't think we can get a clear understanding in the least without a hint of anecdotal feedback. As PeteKiaRose pointed out,

A lot of things can look like wonder drugs until something you couldn't predict happens and things go terribly wrong. That's why we perform drug trials in people, and not in vitro.

; we should not indulge in this substance until we know for certain nothing negative is going to occur in our bodies from the drug itself or combination.

[StrangeAeons]

alright, alright, you're outraged and we're immature; I was just trying to put OneScrewLoose's anger into context.
Anyways, this book by Dr. Knoll has a whole bunch of data on (-)BPAP; it's a lot of information, so I haven't looked over it just yet. I'm guessing you got access to it from a chemical research supplier, as it doesn't look like it's for sale. If you know of a source, sharing would help as I may potentially be interested. If this is supposed to be superior to selegiline I would argue anybody trying this stuff should switch off the selegiline and onto BPAP; and like I said earlier, titrating the dose for neuroprotection is different than titrating it for mood benefits.
While we're mentioning selegiline alternatives, I recently came acrost Ladostigil, which looks pretty interesting to me as it combines an MAO-B Inhibitor with an AChE Inhibitor. Promising profile for senile dementia and as a neuroprotective, but I imagine like Hup-A there are some concerns over being used in younger people. This drug appears to have a little more experimental data on it, though it doesn't hold quite the same promise. It also appears to be available from a sketchy Chinese synth outfit.

[stephen_b]

If this is supposed to be superior to selegiline I would argue anybody trying this stuff should switch off the selegiline and onto BPAP; and like I said earlier, titrating the dose for neuroprotection is different than titrating it for mood benefits.

I fully agree.

StephenB

[bgwithadd]

ANyone know what the rationale for this was? More dopamine somehow equals life extension? It's pretty certain that the MAO effects of deprenyl are not what makes it good for life extension.

[StrangeAeons]

Look at the journal articles in the OP; it appears much more complex. It protects against apoptosis stimulated by endogenous neurotoxins, increases BDNF, spares L-Dopa, and appears to act as an "enhancer", -- i.e. it potentiates only those pathways which are being signaled, selectively.

[bgwithadd]

hmm, that would be interesting. I think I'll wait for the ampakines to come along or for someone to test this thoroughly in humans, though.

[tjcbs]

So after 3+ years do we have ANY experience reports on this yet??