124 replies to this topic

[wootwoot]

I recently picked up some deprenyl and I am very happy with it. I have tried various nootropics before including piracetam, aniracetam, ortho mind, and vinpocetin. I never had any luck with these nootropics but with deprenyl I finally get positive results. I am more focused and sharper. I am not affected by brain fog and it is easier to motivate me. Are there any bad consequences of supplementing with this daily? If so what can I do to minimize the negative effects?

[zoolander]

That's good to hear wootwoot. Whilst deprenyl does fit under the definition of a nootropic remember that it is a potent pharmaceutical.

In healthy people it is best to stick with low dosages. Between the ages of 30-40 years of age it's recommended at 1 mg/day 3-5 times per week with healthy individuals. I would not go any higher than this. At higher dosages you generally just get a more speedy effect that tends to leave you a scattered and not as focused. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that more is better with deprenyl because it's not.

I also recommend that you watch your blood pressure very closely and if possible inform your GP about what you are doing. Take a month break every 3-4 months from deprenyl.

The most important thing to keep in mind here is that you are taking a pharmaceutical and not a supplement or nootropic. There is a huge difference. If you play around with your dopmaine system too much you could end up in a pretty nasty situation.

[Rags847]

From LEF (discussing a study where Parkinson patients were given Deprenyl and L-Dopa):


Was The Dose Of Deprenyl Too High?
One explanation for the excess mortality in the patients receiving deprenyl and L-Dopa in the British study may be that the 10 mg/day of deprenyl they received may have been too high when combined with L-Dopa. Here are some findings that suggest this:

• Studies have shown that a daily dose of 10 mg of deprenyl a day enhances dopamine transmission in the brain by an average of 40-50% ³²
• Deprenyl also appears to inhibit pre-synaptic dopamine receptors, thus increasing the synthesis of dopamine in the brain ³³
• Treatment with L-Dopa, which is converted into dopamine, also elevates dopamine levels in the brain via a different mechanism.³⁴
• Dopamine is known to cause toxic oxidative stress in the process of being degraded into its metabolites. ^35-36

It could be that the combination of deprenyl and L-Dopa in the absence of very many functioning dopaminergic neurons, results in an excessive amount of dopamine in the brain, which becomes toxic to substantia nigra neurons, and which, in turn, leads to the further dysfunction of the remaining neurons, thus hastening disability and death.


Evidence For The Toxicity Of Dopamine
Dopamine is one of the most important substances in the brain. It is an essential neurotransmitter that regulates movement, coordination, sex drive, and other critical functions. The lack of it causes Parkinson's Disease, which leads to disability, cognitive decline, and death. However, an excess of dopamine can also be harmful.

Researchers have found that one of the byproducts of dopamine metabolism is hydrogen peroxide, which is relatively inert and not toxic to cells.³⁷ However, damage occurs when hydrogen peroxide interacts with the reduced forms of iron and copper, which causes it to decompose to highly damaging hydroxyl free radicals,³⁸ which react with almost every molecular species found in living cells. Such reactions can cause breakage of single- and double-stranded DNA, chemical alteration of purine and pyrimidine DNA bases, and membrane disinte- gration. These events, in turn, lead to damage to the mitochondrial energy system, and excessive release of degradative enzymes, leading to the crippling of cell function and, eventually, to cell death. ³⁹

Although there is not yet proof that this type of damage causes the loss of dopaminergic neurons in Parkinson's disease, there is evidence in animals and humans supporting the concept. This includes abnormally high iron deposits and abnormally low levels of reduced glutathione in the brains of Parkinson's patients as well as significant increases in the secondary products of lipid peroxidation, and a 10-fold increase in lipid hydroperoxides in the substantia nigra of Parkinson's patients.³⁹

Edited by Rags847, 16 December 2007 - 09:47 PM.

[zoolander]

That for that info Rags

[randomthoughts]

since this has been mentioned i just wanted to confirm the fact that denepryl (selegiline) is NOT available online without a prescription correct?

[FunkOdyssey]

It is readily available online without a prescription.

[Rags847]

It is readily available online without a prescription.

But not legally, right?

[luv2increase]

It is readily available online without a prescription.

But not legally, right?

Yes, legally. It is not a scheduled substance in the United States. I believe that it is only scheduled in Japan. You are aloud, I think, to ship in a three months supply at the most from out of the country into the U.S.

[randomthoughts]

interesting, later today i might try to find some shops... here's another question...

MAOIs are typically not advised to be taken with a lot of other antidepressents and medications... and you must let those meds clear from your system over 2 weeks before you start an MAOI. Because selegiline is selective to MAO-A in low doses... is it ok to take with or shortly after stopping other medications?

[luv2increase]

interesting, later today i might try to find some shops... here's another question...

MAOIs are typically not advised to be taken with a lot of other antidepressents and medications... and you must let those meds clear from your system over 2 weeks before you start an MAOI. Because selegiline is selective to MAO-A in low doses... is it ok to take with or shortly after stopping other medications?

Here is what you are looking for. Btw, deprenyl inhibits MAO-B (deals with dopamine) in low dosages (2.5mg a day I think), and it only inhibits MAO-A (deals with serotonin) in dosages over 10mg a day. You have to remember though, deprenyl will build up in your system over time. This means that even at 1mg a day for an extended period of time will eventually start to inhibit MAO-B. I believe this to be true when taking it at 5-10mg a day for it eventually inhibiting MAO-A. You have to be careful is all I'm basically trying to say. At higher dosages you have to watch out with tyramine rich foods. The link provided lists all foods to watch out from if take for than 10mg daily.

Also, when dealing with life-extension, deprenyl in dosages too low to inhibit MAO-B, still is found to have profound benefits to the health of the brain. This is what my primary interest is with deprenyl.


In one study, they find when combined with low dose (I believe 250mg daily) of l-phenylalanine, it proved to be a very effective anti-depressant.

Adapted from K. I. Shulman, S. E. Walker, Psychiatric Annals 2001; 31:378-384

Use With Other Drugs Affecting Monoamine Activity

Serious, sometimes fatal, central nervous system (CNS) toxicity referred to as the "serotonin syndrome" has been reported with the combination of non-selective MAOIs with certain other drugs, including tricyclic or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor antidepressants, amphetamines, meperidine, or pentazocine. Serotonin syndrome is characterized by signs and symptoms that may include hyperthermia, rigidity, myoclonus, autonomic instability with rapid fluctuations of the vital signs, and mental status changes that include extreme agitation progressing to delirium and coma. Similar less severe syndromes have been reported in a few patients receiving a combination of oral selegiline with one of these agents.

Therefore, Emsam (selegiline transdermal system) should not be used in combination with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs, e.g., fluoxetine, sertraline, paroxetine); dual serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs, e.g., venlafaxine and duloxetine); tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs, e.g., imipramine and amitriptyline); oral selegiline or other MAOIs (e.g., isocarboxazid, phenelzine, and tranylcypromine); mirtazapine; bupropion hydrochloride; meperidine and analgesic agents such as tramadol, methadone, and propoxyphene; the antitussive agent dextromethorphan; or St. John's wort because of the risk of life-threatening adverse reactions. Also, Emsam should not be used with sympathomimetic amines, including amphetamines as well as cold products and weight-reducing preparations that contain vasoconstrictors (e.g., pseudoephedrine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, and ephedrine). (See CONTRAINDICATIONS.)

Concomitant use of Emsam with buspirone hydrochloride is not advised since several cases of elevated blood pressure have been reported in patients taking MAOIs who were then given buspirone HCl.

After stopping treatment with SSRIs; SNRIs; TCAs; MAOIs; meperidine and analgesics such as tramadol, methadone, and propoxyphene; dextromethorphan; St. John's wort; mirtazapine; bupropion HCl; or buspirone HCl, a time period equal to 4 - 5 half-lives (approximately 1 week) of the drug or any active metabolite should elapse before starting therapy with Emsam. Because of the long half-life of fluoxetine and its active metabolite, at least 5 weeks should elapse between discontinuation of fluoxetine and initiation of treatment with Emsam. At least 2 weeks should elapse after stopping Emsam before starting therapy with buspirone HCl or a drug that is contraindicated with Emsam.

If you would like to learn more about selegiline:
www.drugs.com/pro/emsam.html


How old are you? Here is a chart of the dosage of deprenyl for life-extension from http://www.smart-pub...se/deprenyl.php
Other cites confer with the recommendations of this site.

Age Dosage
30-35 1mg twice a week
35-40 1mg every other day
40-45 1mg every day
45-50 2mg every day
50-55 3mg every day
55-60 4mg every day
60-65 5mg every day
65-70 6mg every day
70-75 8mg every day
75-80 9mg every day
80 plus 10mg every day

In one article Dr. Knoll, the creator of deprenyl, said that he recommends that everyone from sexual maturity take 1mg a day for the rest of their life.

Edited by luv2increase, 17 December 2007 - 09:02 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I was able to reduce my dose of bupropion from 300mg to 150mg daily by combining it with 2.5mg of deprenyl. Despite the fact that this combination is officially contraindicated in most texts on either drug, it really works like a charm (for me, I'm not suggesting anyone should attempt this). Bupropion at 300mg can be excessively NA boosting... 150mg along with a modest amount of deprenyl seems to provide a more balanced noradrenergic / dopaminergic agent combo. I've also noticed that 2.5mg of deprenyl does not turn me into an aggressive, impatient a**hole the way 5mg does. Either that, or the bupropion is preventing it.

[randomthoughts]

good information guys, I found at least one site that sells it, nubrain.com, although it just says Denepryl and not what brand it is... not sure how important that is.

[edward]

I personally really like Deprenyl as I have stated before, though I have had much better results with the Liquid Citrate. Here is a link to where I last ordered liquid deprenyl citrate. At 1 mg per day (what I take) this little bottle lasts a long time. The supplier is in the UK and shipping to the US was rather quick (around 10 days). http://www.amygdalin.co.uk/cat5_1.htm

[luv2increase]

Here is another good one. It is selegiline citrate as well.

http://cytopharmaonl...om/cyprenil.asp

[krillin]

good information guys, I found at least one site that sells it, nubrain.com, although it just says Denepryl and not what brand it is... not sure how important that is.

They sent me Ratiopharm. I made it through all of 2.5 mg over 3 days before it turned me into a total prick.

[zoolander]

Because selegiline is selective to MAO-A in low doses

WRONG!

Here is what you are looking for. Btw, deprenyl inhibits MAO-B (deals with dopamine) in low dosages (2.5mg a day I think), and it only inhibits MAO-A (deals with serotonin) in dosages over 10mg a day. You have to remember though, deprenyl will build up in your system over time. This means that even at 1mg a day for an extended period of time will eventually start to inhibit MAO-B. I believe this to be true when taking it at 5-10mg a day for it eventually inhibiting MAO-A. You have to be careful is all I'm basically trying to say. At higher dosages you have to watch out with tyramine rich foods. The link provided lists all foods to watch out from if take for than 10mg daily.

Also, when dealing with life-extension, deprenyl in dosages too low to inhibit MAO-B, still is found to have profound benefits to the health of the brain. This is what my primary interest is with deprenyl.


In one study, they find when combined with low dose (I believe 250mg daily) of l-phenylalanine, it proved to be a very effective anti-depressant.

Thank you Aaron. You searched elsewhere but if you had of searched here within the forums you would have found that I've said the above on more than a few occasions. Phenylalanine is great to stack with deprenyl. You must be careful with this one but very low dose deprenyl and chocamine/cocoa is pretty amazing if you find the right dose for you that isn't overly speedy.

[wootwoot]

These pills are all 5mg how am I supposed to break them down to 1mg. I have been taking 5mg some days and 10mg other days. Are there any other nootropics that work in the same way as deprenyl that I may be interested in taking?

[Ghostrider]

These pills are all 5mg how am I supposed to break them down to 1mg. I have been taking 5mg some days and 10mg other days. Are there any other nootropics that work in the same way as deprenyl that I may be interested in taking?

I looked into Deprenyl about a year ago and came across some article that had some very negative things to say about it, it was related to long-term brain damage and pro-aging effects. I can't find the article, but I think it was referenced on the betterhumans forums. Anyhow, that turned me off as well as the fact that I could not find a dealer that I could trust. Humm, that sounded kinda bad.

[daimewaku]

Deprenyl is GREAT! I found taking 5mg with 5mg of inderal helps give me the ability to give speeches and presentations like I've never done before.

[edward]

These pills are all 5mg how am I supposed to break them down to 1mg. I have been taking 5mg some days and 10mg other days. Are there any other nootropics that work in the same way as deprenyl that I may be interested in taking?

Another reason to get the liquid, easy dosing. When I had the tablets getting a daily dose was a matter of first breaking the 5 mg tablet into 4ths (if its scored then its easier if not score them yourself before cutting) using a razor blade (or pill splitter but I think a razor blade is easier). This will give you 1.25 mg per 1/4. Even if they are not equally split then you know that if you only split one pill at a time and take the 1/4 fragments over a period of 4 days you will be getting roughly 5mg minus the deprenyl powder lost. When I had the tabs I was younger and so I broke a tablet into 4ths and took a "fragment" every other day.

Sounds fun huh. (get the liquid)

Personally 5 mg one day and 10 mg the next day even if once a week is not a great way to take this product.

[graatch]

I don't see why it would be so hard to actually examine the study showing increased mortality, comparing the selegiline patients to the regulars and trying to peg on what kind of deaths the gap falls. This would be informative, I think.

[Ghostrider]

These pills are all 5mg how am I supposed to break them down to 1mg. I have been taking 5mg some days and 10mg other days. Are there any other nootropics that work in the same way as deprenyl that I may be interested in taking?

I looked into Deprenyl about a year ago and came across some article that had some very negative things to say about it, it was related to long-term brain damage and pro-aging effects. I can't find the article, but I think it was referenced on the betterhumans forums. Anyhow, that turned me off as well as the fact that I could not find a dealer that I could trust. Humm, that sounded kinda bad.

I've looked at the research on deprenyl and overall it looks pretty positive. I'll try some as soon as I find a good place for it.

Even if the results are positive overall (in case that article that I read was actually garbage), do you have a source (to buy Deprenyl) that you can trust? And why would you trust that source? I looked around...there is no AOR Deprenyl product.

Edited by Ghostrider, 20 December 2007 - 02:59 AM.

[luv2increase]

These pills are all 5mg how am I supposed to break them down to 1mg. I have been taking 5mg some days and 10mg other days. Are there any other nootropics that work in the same way as deprenyl that I may be interested in taking?

I looked into Deprenyl about a year ago and came across some article that had some very negative things to say about it, it was related to long-term brain damage and pro-aging effects. I can't find the article, but I think it was referenced on the betterhumans forums. Anyhow, that turned me off as well as the fact that I could not find a dealer that I could trust. Humm, that sounded kinda bad.

I've looked at the research on deprenyl and overall it looks pretty positive. I'll try some as soon as I find a good place for it.

Even if the results are positive overall (in case that article that I read was actually garbage), do you have a source (to buy Deprenyl) that you can trust? And why would you trust that source? I looked around...there is no AOR Deprenyl product.

Are you serious? Look at the makers of selegiline. They are pharmaceutical companies. It isn't like they are mom and pop shops doing it.

[Chris11]

These pills are all 5mg how am I supposed to break them down to 1mg. I have been taking 5mg some days and 10mg other days. Are there any other nootropics that work in the same way as deprenyl that I may be interested in taking?

I looked into Deprenyl about a year ago and came across some article that had some very negative things to say about it, it was related to long-term brain damage and pro-aging effects. I can't find the article, but I think it was referenced on the betterhumans forums. Anyhow, that turned me off as well as the fact that I could not find a dealer that I could trust. Humm, that sounded kinda bad.

I've looked at the research on deprenyl and overall it looks pretty positive. I'll try some as soon as I find a good place for it.

Even if the results are positive overall (in case that article that I read was actually garbage), do you have a source (to buy Deprenyl) that you can trust? And why would you trust that source? I looked around...there is no AOR Deprenyl product.

Found a great source with alot of feedback. I'll be trying this in 1-2 weeks. Thanks guys

[Chris11]

Hi folks newbie here, good thing I was passing through to see this thread, you may want to read the below link before ordering. I started taking Cyprenil 5 days ago and I'm discontinuing it immediately.

http://www.liquid-de.../cytopharma.htm

[luv2increase]

Hi folks newbie here, good thing I was passing through to see this thread, you may want to read the below link before ordering. I started taking Cyprenil 5 days ago and I'm discontinuing it immediately.

http://www.liquid-de.../cytopharma.htm

Are you serious? There is no sources for his information. It is a scam site. It was probably written up by the competition which is the other maker of selegiline citrate.



A word of advice for you chris11; don't always believe what you read, especially if it isn't backed up. The writer of that article didn't post any evidence to back his rantings. That is a big red flag. It is bogus.

[tarbtl]

I was able to reduce my dose of bupropion from 300mg to 150mg daily by combining it with 2.5mg of deprenyl. Despite the fact that this combination is officially contraindicated in most texts on either drug, it really works like a charm (for me, I'm not suggesting anyone should attempt this). Bupropion at 300mg can be excessively NA boosting... 150mg along with a modest amount of deprenyl seems to provide a more balanced noradrenergic / dopaminergic agent combo. I've also noticed that 2.5mg of deprenyl does not turn me into an aggressive, impatient a**hole the way 5mg does. Either that, or the bupropion is preventing it.

I'm also interested in doing this. But I think I'd stay at 300mg and just take 1mg deprenyl EOD. However, from everything I've read, the results could be disastrous. We also don't know if it could substantially increase the risk of seizure, since no research has been done. Do you have any problems with BP? Mine is chronically elevated.

[Chris11]

Hi folks newbie here, good thing I was passing through to see this thread, you may want to read the below link before ordering. I started taking Cyprenil 5 days ago and I'm discontinuing it immediately.

http://www.liquid-de.../cytopharma.htm

Are you serious? There is no sources for his information. It is a scam site. It was probably written up by the competition which is the other maker of selegiline citrate.



A word of advice for you chris11; don't always believe what you read, especially if it isn't backed up. The writer of that article didn't post any evidence to back his rantings. That is a big red flag. It is bogus.


I've actually researched this product quite thoroughly although apparently not thoroughly enough. Does anyone here know who Dr. Dean Ward is? He's the author of Smart drugs, a very reputable authority on these types of medications and Discovery(the company that you claim is bogus) was where he used to obtain his Deprenyl. I've offered another link below that he authored, read it through especially regarding his 4th reason for sticking with this company. As for the stuff I've ordered, I'm seriously considering sending it to a lab for confirmation regarding whether it's citrate or hydrochloride. Remember just because it's liquid doesn't mean it's citrate.
http://www.smart-pub...se/deprenyl.php