54 replies to this topic

[ortcloud]

@narcisstic

I'm a more scientific person and like evidence-based medicine. Sure, you can say Carnosine + Pfaffia + Goji Berries will lower blood pressure as effective as Betablockers, ACE-inhibitors, Diuretics... - and that without side effects. Problem is, you can't prove it. Another guy could say "Take Resveratrol + Lipoic Acid + Silymarin", this will cure your liver cancer. Problem is, he can't prove it and he is most probably wrong.

I am a scientific evidenced based person too, but stop and think about what that really means. You want some proof of numbers or some type
of verifiable evidence, right ? Well since we are talking about blood pressure, you can test that yourself to see what is working or isnt. Sometimes
for some things large double placebo studies arent necessary in some types of situations. On the other hand they are, if you are going to try to
sell me on some type of supplement or drug that will prevent my from getting cancer in 40 years down the road, I am going to need some convincing evidence before I commit time and money before I take it faithfully for 40 years not really knowing if it will have any effect, definitely. Also, I agree with the cancer issue, not because you say if he cant prove it he is wrong, but because time is of the essence and to put faith in something that hopefully it will work is gambling especially if you are not integrating it with conventional.
But things that are less critical and things that are self evident and short term verifiable are a different story. Blood pressure is different than cancer, there are second chances with the things you try to control blood pressure. If you take something and you check your blood pressure and it doesnt work you can try something else but if it goes down then you have your science and proof. There arent too many things like this that you can have the tools to measure the numbers and the science but this is one of them. Blood sugar would be another. So things that would effect these things you would know whether something you are trying works or not. Heck it woudnt even matter if it was placebo or not, if your blood pressure is down, it is down, period.

So my point is that science evidence based approach is fine, you may just want to expand your approach and definition of your data points used
as your evidence to ascertain efficacy.

Edited by ortcloud, 13 January 2008 - 11:05 PM.

[health_nutty]

Whatever approach you try, get a home BP monitor so you can tell how effective it is. Try supplement A for a week or two and see if it makes a difference. Try one change at a time so you can tell what works and what doesn't. The "nice" thing about high BP is it is extremely easy to monitor.

[rfarris]

...would not case any or minimum side effects...

How do you know that? Are you making this up?

[dehbleh]

Hey there,

I was just been reading the thread and would like to share some of my experiences, as I too had the same diagnosis when I was 21. After being referred and deferred to numerous cardiologists, I was led to believe my hypertension was due to a heart defect called ARVD (and that's a total different story right there). However, it was only 2 months ago I found out this was not the case, according to my doctor I was just "unlucky" to have the two diseases.

After doing a whole heap of reading, research and experimentation with supplements (sometimes with detrimental consequences), I now feel I'm starting to get this thing under control. BP is down to 110/60 as opposed to 160/80. However, as a result of late diagnosis, I now have further complications precipitated by my Hypertension (which ties in with my next point).

.....don't forget your kidneys.....

What many have said about cutting your supplements is correct. Too many of the wrong kinds of supplements will overburden your kidneys very fast. When your kidneys have too much work, guess what? They send out what's known as the Angiotensin-Converting Enzyme and this will cause the following:

* Vasoconstriction (narrowing of blood vessels), which may lead to increased blood pressure and hypertension
* Ventricular remodeling of the heart, which may lead to ventricular hypertrophy and CHF
* Stimulate the adrenal cortex to release aldosterone, a hormone that acts on kidney tubules to retain sodium and chloride ions and excrete potassium. Sodium is a "water-holding" molecule, so water is also retained, which leads to increased blood volume, hence an increase in blood pressure.
* Stimulate the posterior pituitary into releasing vasopressin (also known as anti-diuretic hormone (ADH)) which also acts on the kidneys to increase water retention.

Think of it as a viscous cycle. You start off with Hypertension and this eventually damages your kidneys to the extent where they can no longer filter all the waste that comes from food, supplements, liquids etc..
Now your kidneys need to work harder and when this happens they release the Angiotensin-Converting Enzyme and this increases your blood pressure, further contributing to eventual kidney damage and heart failure.

My advice for you is:

Clean up your diet (yeah yeah, I know. It's the most boring one)
===========
- Not so many carbohydrates. If you do have them, make sure everything has a low glycemic index!
- Change your protein source. Rather than your traditional red meats, eat more chicken or dairy-protein (such as eggs, cheese and milk). These are not perfect but are better assimilated by your digestive system and once again, far easier on your kidneys. Don't forget vegetable proteins as well.
- Limit salt intake. Water retention is not cool. Your heart & kidneys will both thank you big time by following this one.
- Opt for more beneficial fats (Omega 3's)
- More greens. Just try and get used to them, you will save yourself a lot of heart ache (literally) by eating more green vegetables. Celery is a extremely good with dips and the like.

Keep your supplement list simple!
====================
An example which many people advocate is:
- Good quality multivitamin with no iron
- Generous amount of fish oil (6000mg a day helped me)
- Time-release Vitamin C
- Optional: Extra Magnesium

Exercise
=====
- A good 15-30min walk a day is all you need and it is one of the fastest (not to mention healthiest) anti-hypertensives there is.

TAKE YOUR MEDS
===========
I know, beta-blockers suck. They cause side effects like:
- Depleting your body of CoEnzyme-Q10
- Increasing risk of type 2 diabetes
- Nightmares
- Lethargy
- Brain fog
- Circulation problems

But you know what? they will save your life and prevent your kidneys from getting totally raped by your over-active heart. If I was on these meds just a couple of years earlier I would not have the kidney damage I do today (oh and did I mention kidney damage is PERMANENT!!). Nootropics for me are now totally out of the question. I can't even take 400mg of Piracetam without my kidneys swelling to the size of a small balloon.

Just be careful son, I'm only 23 and will most likely need a kidney transplant in less than a decades time.

[unbreakable]

Shouldn't you be prescribed an ACE-inhibitor instead of (or additional to) your Beta-Blocker if your kidneys are damaged? Or are you already taking one? What is your creatinine, BUN? You may consider taking NAC, Silymarin and Coenzyme Q10 for renoprotection.

[baudfox]

Thank you everyone for the advice!

I've been taking cocoa for the past week, and at first it seemed to have a HUGE effect on my blood-pressure, bringing it down to about 130/70. However it's now gone back up to it's usual high.
Yesterday I was prescribed beta-blockers, so I'll start taking them and see what sort of effect they have.

[Krell]

The Kuna indians in Panama are reported to have very low BP even at advanced ages due to ingestion of many cups of cocoa per day, made from home made cocoa powder that is processed in a very primitive manner compared to commercially available cocoa. Kuna who move to big cities drink more processed cocoa and do not get the same health benefits. Search pubmed for "kuna cocoa" or see

http://www.news.harv...2/01-cocoa.html

This subject is discussed in some detail in the new book "The Red Wine Diet" by UK researcher Roger Corder.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/1583332901

Corder identifies polyphenols, especially procyanidins, as the source of this relaxation effect on blood vessel lining, and other beneficial effects. He also found that wines from the southwest of France, as well as certain regions of Sicily, Sardinia, and Crete contain higher levels of procyanidins because the wines are processed in a "primitive" manner that involves fermentation over several weeks with the grape skins and seeds. He claims that procyanidins, not resveratrol, is the solution to the "French Paradox". Most high volume "modern" wines do not have much procyanidin content because their contact time with skins and seeds are short. Corder published a 2007 Nature paper on his wine research.

Corder suggests that you need 250-500mg/day procyanidins to get the blood vessel benefits, and only a few obscure wines can give you that in 2-3 glasses (look for French wines from Madiran region, especially). His recommended wines tend to be very tannic and not very drinkable without food. Unfortunately it is not easy or inexpensive to obtain the wines that Corder recommends. I did manage to find a local source for a Madiran at about $12 per bottle, and if this wine is similar to Corder's it might have +120mg/glass. So it would cost me about $6/day to get near Corder's recommended procyanidin input by just drinking this wine. The most available wine that Corder rates is "Turning Leaf Cabernet" at ~45mg/glass. Give it a try to see the tannic taste of these wines.

Corder has made in vitro measurements to check on the effect of other sources of procyanidins, and he recommends the folloowing foods as equivalent to a glass of a good procyanidin (~60mg/glass) wine :

2 tbl/15 gms Cocoa powder (not Dutch processed)
1tsp/3 gms cinnamon
1/2 cup/40gm walnuts
1/2 cup/55gm raspberries
1 cup/110gm strawberries
1 cup blackberries
1/2 cup/55gm cranberries
1 apple (Granny Smith and Red Delicious are higher)
(see book for others)

By Corder's figures, a smoothie with most of the above ingredients would be equivalent to ~7 glasses of his good 60mg
procyanidin wine, or a total of 420mg. So that would take care of his recommended 250-500 mg/day. The Kuna indians are reported to take in about 600 mg procyanidins per day. Other studies suggest that there is a lower cutoff effect so that ingestion below 150-200 mg/day has little or no effect. One problem with Corder's food equilalents is that the USDA online tables of food procyanidin content are generally much higher than Corder's. I tried to email Corder about this but have not received a reply.

I have found that I can not take more than 15 mg of cocoa powder at one dose without getting caffine type jitters. Also I need something to sweeten it, so I add whey protein powder sweetened with sucralose to my smoothie.

Currently I make a morning smoothie with most of the above ingredients plus 2 cups of skim milk for liquid and 30 grams of vanilla protein powder with sucralose for sweetening and protein. Then I drink 1/3 of this at each meal since the Kuna and wine ingesting of procyanidins seems to be distributed over the day. I recently increased the cocoa powder to +25 grams since I am not getting over 15gms in each meal. I generally buy the cheapest components: Hersheys or Nestle cocoa power, Walmart protein powder, frozen berries, etc.

I also generally drink a glass or two (or three!) of medium procyanidin content red wine each day. Corder suggests that Cablernet Savignon is generally higher than other varieties, and as a general rule look for wine descriptions like "concentrated fruit flavors, with great acidity and a fine, full tannic finish, good aging potential".

[dehbleh]

Shouldn't you be prescribed an ACE-inhibitor instead of (or additional to) your Beta-Blocker if your kidneys are damaged? Or are you already taking one? What is your creatinine, BUN? You may consider taking NAC, Silymarin and Coenzyme Q10 for renoprotection.

Hey there. Currently I take a combination of Metoprolorol 50mg (beta-blocker) and Perindopril Arginine 2.5mg (ACE-inhibitor). At this stage I'm receiving 2 out of 3 available therapies. It's still on the lowest dosage and last thing left would be a diuretic which is probably unnecessary at this stage. My BP on standard prescription drug therapy alone was hovering around 130/75, now with dietary/supplement changes I have managed to get it down to a healthy 110/55.

I have tried NOW Foods Coenzyme Q10 Powder (28 Grams) and took that for about 1.5 months at 600mg twice a day mixed with 1000mg fish oil. I noticed a further reduction in blood pressure whilst taking it but the cost is an issue. Maybe if I was reaping all my BP lowering benefits solely from this supplement, only then would I justify its expense.

[tham]

Hey there. Currently I take a combination of Metoprolorol 50mg
(beta-blocker) and Perindopril Arginine 2.5mg (ACE-inhibitor).

I'd suggest you talk to your doctor about substituting, or
adding your ACE inhibitor with an ARB, or angiotensin II,
type 1 (AT1) receptor blocker.

Angiotensin II blockers have certain advantages over, or
synergism with, ACE inhibitors in protecting and supporting
the kidneys in hypertension and heart failure, as well as
preventing remodelling of the heart in cardiomyopathy with
its associated congestive heart failure. This is particularly
true of candesartan (Atacand). Reduction of mortality in these
patients was evident based on the large CHARM (Candesartan
in Heart failure: Assessment of Reduction in Mortality and
Morbidity) study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


A few years ago, after extensive research on Medline, I played
doctor and switched my father, a cardiomyopathy and congestive
heart failure patient, from his prescribed ACE inhibitor, ramipril
(Tritace), to the angiotensin II blocker, candesartan. I did it
slowly though, titrating the dosage of candesartan up, starting
from 2 mg daily to a minimum of 16 mg, while tapering off the
dosage of ramipril.

He improved, judging from the reduction in leg edema which
is typical of insufficiently controlled heart failure patients and
which was evident when he was on ramipril.

However, he went back to his doctor, who placed him on the
older and not so impressive angiotensin II blocker, irbesartan
(Approvel). So much for this son's exercise in treating heart
failure then.

Bear in mind though, that both ACE inhibitors and angiotensin
II blockers can cause hyperkalemia, so serum potassium must
be monitored.

One big advantage of candesartan in protecting both the
kidneys and heart is that it apparently blocks NFKappaB
and associated oxidation/glycation pathways.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.aafp.org/...600ap/3140.html


Secondly, I think it is quite important to take a glandular, in
line with the principle of "eating an organ to support an organ".
Glandular therapy has extensively and long been used in
European and Mexican alternative treatment centers.

Solaray's product looks quite good :

http://www.betterlif...sp?prod_id=3261

Edited by tham, 24 January 2008 - 07:31 AM.

[sUper GeNius]

Hey there. Currently I take a combination of Metoprolorol 50mg
(beta-blocker) and Perindopril Arginine 2.5mg (ACE-inhibitor).

I'd suggest you talk to your doctor about substituting, or
adding your ACE inhibitor with an ARB, or angiotension II,
type 1 (AT1) receptor blocker.

Angiotensin II blockers have certain advantages over, or
synergism with, ACE inhibitors in protecting and supporting
the kidneys in hypertension and heart failure, as well as
preventing remodelling of the heart in cardiomyopathy with
its associated congestive heart failure. This is particularly
true of candesartan (Atacand). Reduction of mortality in these
patients was evident based on the large CHARM (Candesartan
in Heart failure: Assessment of Reduction in Mortality and
Morbidity) study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


A few years ago, after extensive research on Medline, I played
doctor and switched my father, a cardiomyopathy and congestive
heart failure patient, from his precribed ACE inhibitor, ramipril
(Tritace), to the angiotensin II blocker, candesartan. I did it
slowly though, titrating the dosage of candesartan up, starting
from 2 mg daily to a minimum of 16 mg, while tapering off the
dosage of ramipril.

He improved, judging from the reduction in leg edema which
is typical of insufficiently controlled heart failure patients and
which was evident when he was on ramipril.

However, he went back to his doctor, who placed him on the
older and not so impressive angiotensin II blocker, irbesartan
(Approvel). So much for this son's exercise in treating heart
failure then.

Bear in mind though, that both ACE inhibitors and angiotensin
II blockers can cause hyperkalemia, so serum potassium must
be monitored.

One big advantage of candesartan in protecting both the
kidneys and heart is that it apparently blocks NFKappaB
and associated oxidation/glycation pathways.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.aafp.org/...600ap/3140.html


Secondly, I think it is quite important to take a glandular, in
line with the principle of "eating an organ to support an organ".
Glandular therapy has extensively and long been used in
European and Mexican alternative treatment centers.

Solaray's product looks quite good :

http://www.betterlif...sp?prod_id=3261

Tham,

I take 5mg of ramipril along with diazide, my BP is well controlled, and I expect to be able to eliminate the BP meds as I continue to lose weight and add exercise, (I am lazy,) to my regimen.

One thing I read recently is that ramipril, and certain other meds like it, can cross the blood-brain barrier. In this article it was mentioned that taking one of the BP meds that cross the BB barrier may be beneficial in preventing dementia, Alzheimers, and a few other maladies.

Something to think about I guess.

Edit: This is what I read I believe:
http://www.scienceda...70505164641.htm

Edited by FuLL meMbeR, 23 January 2008 - 08:33 PM.

[tham]

Tham,

I take 5mg of ramipril along with diazide, my BP is well controlled, and I expect to be able to eliminate the BP meds as I continue to lose weight and add exercise, (I am lazy,) to my regimen.

One thing I read recently is that ramipril, and certain other meds like it, can cross the blood-brain barrier. In this article it was mentioned that taking one of the BP meds that cross the BB barrier may be beneficial in preventing dementia, Alzheimers, and a few other maladies.

Something to think about I guess.

Edit: This is what I read I believe:
http://www.scienceda...70505164641.htm

Thank you for the good info, Full Member.

Yes, I guess this adds ACE inhibitors to nonselective
NSAIDS/selective Cox-2 inhibitors and statins as potential
drugs in the prevention and treatment of Alzheimer's and
other aging dementias.

It is noted that the renin-angiotensin system also has
implications in the brain, which explains the activity of ACE
inhibitors in preventing Alzhemier's and other senile
degenerative disorders.

Within this system, the angiotensin II receptor is partcularly
implicated, and drugs that block this receptor such as
candesartan also has effectiveness on these diseases.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


This study shows the prototype angiotensin II blocker, losartan
(Cozaar), to be far more effective than ACE inhibitors in slowing
down cognitive decline in dementias :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


And I am quite taken aback from your profile that you are going
to be 100 soon ? You must be the only centenarian amongst the
members here ! You are certainly living proof that life extension
works. Might you like to share your supplement regimen ?

Happy 100th Birthday in advance !

Edited by tham, 24 January 2008 - 06:08 PM.

[narcissistic]

Well FuLL meMneR investigation things with scientific approach is probably the only way of really knowing anything, to day everything evolves around this method; if it’s not scientific it’s naturally not interesting. And no one with any education can be stupid agnafe to do any thing witch isn’t based on seines.

To start with what, or what methods, becomes scientific? Naturally what’s profitable. Scientific studies are extremely expensive. And are basically financed by shareholders, shareholders that are expecting there moony to grow. This excludes very thing but patentable drugs. And this is what people with different illnesses in the end are presented to. To days medicine isn’t at first based and ruled by seines, but profit.

And more interesting can every thing be put in to a scientific perspective? Every one knows how extremely complex it is to analyse data in order to determine risk factors (Or different behaviours leading to different consequences.) its almost impossible. The only places wear this method actually is applicative is in laboratories witch only 1 or 2 different factors effecting the result. In the complexity of real life this approach that we call science doesn’t work.

At worst the believe in seines it can be some thing really dull. If one likes to ironies Physicians often say: would you like to get shoot in the head or the leg? We have more scientific studies abbot what happens when some one get shoot in the head so we strongly advise you to do that.

I have no idée how physicians can prescribe antidepressiv drugs to the masses, with out losing their credibility, when 5-HT and SAM-e has proven to be equally effective. Or what possible cold motivate the use of synthetic L-dopa (one of the grate gifts given by science to the western world). At least it’s profitable and weary favourable for every on involved but the patient. This today’s medicine.

Edited by narcissistic, 27 January 2008 - 02:56 AM.

[niner]

Thank you for the good info, Full Member.
...
And I am quite taken aback from your profile that you are going
to be 100 soon ? You must be the only centenarian amongst the
members here ! You are certainly living proof that life extension
works. Might you like to share your supplement regimen ?

Happy 100th Birthday in advance !

Tham, FuLL meMbeR is not 99. I know him; he's at least 110. He lies about his age in order to pick up girls.

[sUper GeNius]

Thank you for the good info, Full Member.
...
And I am quite taken aback from your profile that you are going
to be 100 soon ? You must be the only centenarian amongst the
members here ! You are certainly living proof that life extension
works. Might you like to share your supplement regimen ?

Happy 100th Birthday in advance !

Tham, FuLL meMbeR is not 99. I know him; he's at least 110. He lies about his age in order to pick up girls.

Hey, I wanna be a Navigator! Time to change name again...

[christines]

Regular exercise produces antihypertensive effect. All forms of exercise seem to be effective. Green tea also produces blood pressure lowering effect and has several cardiovascular health benefits.
Also, you may try to eliminate several risk factors for high blood pressure.

[sablystone]

One should be careful about assuming it's just "white coat" hypertension. "White coat" hypertensives tend to spike with alot of other stressors. Most of us don't sit around all day "relaxed" so we can keep our BP down. Blood pressure ought to be fairly normal/stable with most of our daily activities, unless pulse rate is increased from more rigorous activities.

[rws1023]

PS: Prescription drugs are not always bad. Take for example the combined alpha/betablocker carvedilol. It can effectively lower blood pressure, has a favourable side-effect profile and some of it's metabolites are extremely potent antioxidants.

yes i am on Carvedilol and Losartan.

another thing that you might wanna try is "Horny Goat Weed" standardized for at least 10% Icariins, it's EXCELLENT for libido AND lowering blood pressure.

[tintinet]

Get a check up, pronto. You could have renal artery stenosis or metabolic cause for hypertension (adrenal).

If you end up with essential hypertension, then pursue supplements, and at least evaluate and consider prescription meds for therapy, as well as other methods mentioned above.

Edited by tintinet, 21 March 2008 - 09:14 PM.

[lucid]

Sodium and Potassium haven't been mentioned. So I will mention them and then post a little more about a new meditation study in a quality journal.

Sodium (salt) raises your blood pressure:
A reduction in daily salt by 3g (the average american consumes between 2.5-5g of salt) results in about a 5 mm Hg drop in blood pressure (7mg Hg in those with > 170 mm Hg natural BP):

By how much does dietary salt reduction lower blood pressure? III--Analysis of data from trials of salt reduction.

OBJECTIVE--To determine whether the reduction in blood pressure achieved in trials of dietary salt reduction is quantitatively consistent with estimates derived from blood pressure and sodium intake in different populations, and, if so, to estimate the impact of reducing dietary salt on mortality from stroke and ischaemic heart disease. DESIGN--Analysis of the results of 68 crossover trials and 10 randomised controlled trials of dietary salt reduction. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE--Comparison of observed reductions in systolic blood pressure for each trial with predicted values calculated from between population analysis.
RESULTS--In the 45 trials in which salt reduction lasted four weeks or less the observed reductions in blood pressure were less than those predicted, with the difference between observed and predicted reductions being greatest in the trials of shortest duration. In the 33 trials lasting five weeks or longer the predicted reductions in individual trials closely matched a wide range of observed reductions. This applied for all age groups and for people with both high and normal levels of blood pressure. In people aged 50-59 years a reduction in daily sodium intake of 50 mmol (about 3 g of salt), attainable by moderate dietary salt reduction would, after a few weeks, lower systolic blood pressure by an average of 5 mm Hg, and by 7 mm Hg in those with high blood pressure (170 mm Hg); diastolic blood pressure would be lowered by about half as much. It is estimated that such a reduction in salt intake by a whole Western population would reduce the incidence of stroke by 22% and of ischaemic heart disease by 16% [corrected]. CONCLUSIONS--The results from the trials support the estimates from the observational data in the accompanying two papers. The effect of universal moderate dietary salt reduction on mortality from stroke and ischaemic heart disease would be substantial--larger, indeed, than could be achieved by fully implementing recommended policy for treating high blood pressure with drugs. However, reduction also in the amount of salt added to processed foods would lower blood pressure by at least twice as much and prevent some 75,000 [corrected] deaths a year in Britain as well as much disability.

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=1669188


Potassium improves blood pressure:
A dietary increase in potassium improves systolic and diastolic blood pressure by (-)3.11 and (-)1.97 respectively.

Effects of oral potassium on blood pressure. Meta-analysis of randomized controlled clinical trials

OBJECTIVE: To assess the effects of supplementation with oral potassium on blood pressure in humans. DESIGN: Meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. DATA SOURCES: English-language articles published before July 1995. STUDY SELECTION: Thirty-three randomized controlled trials (2609 participants) in which potassium supplementation was the only difference between the intervention and control conditions. DATA EXTRACTION: Using a standardized protocol, 2 of us independently abstracted information on sample size, duration, study design, potassium dose, participant characteristics, and treatment results. RESULTS: By means of a random-effects model, findings from individual trials were pooled, after results for each trial were weighted by the inverse of its variance. An extreme effect of potassium in lowering blood pressure was noted in 1 trial. After exclusion of this trial, potassium supplementation was associated with a significant reduction in mean (95% confidence interval) systolic and diastolic blood pressure of -3.11 mm Hg (-1.91 to -4.31 mm Hg) and -1.97 mm Hg (-0.52 to -3.42 mm Hg), respectively. Effects of treatment appeared to be enhanced in studies in which participants were concurrently exposed to a high intake of sodium. CONCLUSIONS: Our results support the premise that low potassium intake may play an important role in the genesis of high blood pressure. Increased potassium intake should be considered as a recommendation for prevention and treatment of hypertension, especially in those who are unable to reduce their intake of sodium.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9168293

Some quality high potassium foods: Almonds, Shitake Mushrooms, Lima Beans, Kale, Sweet Potato, lots more.
A much better and fuller list: http://www.umassmed....ryPotassium.pdf


Transcendental Meditation improves Blood Pressure:
TM lowers systolic and diastolic blood pressure by (-)5.0 and (-)2.8 respectively.

Stress Reduction Programs in Patients with Elevated Blood Pressure: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis.

Substantial evidence indicates that psychosocial stress contributes to hypertension and cardiovascular disease (CVD). Previous meta-analyses of stress reduction and high blood pressure (BP) were outdated and/or methodologically limited. Therefore, we conducted an updated systematic review of the published literature and identified 107 studies on stress reduction and BP. Seventeen trials with 23 treatment comparisons and 960 participants with elevated BP met criteria for well-designed randomized controlled trials and were replicated within intervention categories. Meta-analysis was used to calculate BP changes for biofeedback, -0.8/-2.0 mm Hg (P = NS); relaxation-assisted biofeedback, +4.3/+2.4 mm Hg (P = NS); progressive muscle relaxation, -1.9/-1.4 mm Hg (P = NS); stress management training, -2.3/-1.3 mm (P = NS); and the Transcendental Meditation program, -5.0/-2.8 mm Hg (P = 0.002/0.02). Available evidence indicates that among stress reduction approaches, the Transcendental Meditation program is associated with significant reductions in BP. Related data suggest improvements in other CVD risk factors and clinical outcomes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum
Also, these TM studies are with novices who haven't practiced particularly long, it is reasonable to expect better BP scores as your ability to meditate improves.

Edited by lucid, 10 April 2008 - 12:14 AM.

[Lurker]

What was said above, minimize sodium in your diet. Sodium is pretty prevelent in fastfood and most packaged goods at the store, so it takes a good amount of awareness.

[beaver]

Hello,

let me add a few thoughts.
Removing a high bp is the question what causes high bp.
Nobody answered to this question and therefore the replies are not satisfying.
In my opinion it does not make a great difference if a medical doctor wants you to
eat bp pills for the rest of your life which is something like administering a disease and at the same time refusing to cure anything or if you propose to do the same thing with herbals or alternate meds for the rest of your life. Do you smell the trap?

BP pills have some disadvantages. They do not protect you from heart attack or apoplexy.
And they have side effects like causing an erectile dysfunction, for example.

In my opinion it is a better idea to remove the causes for high bp.

Medical doctors have a word for everything and 90-95% of their diagnoses use the word "essential hypertonia" which I like to tranlate as "I have no idea where high bp comes from".
But the reasons are known and can simply be removed.

I am not talking of stenosis which needs to be higher than 70% to have an effect on bp.
A stenosis can be detected by echocardiograpy, for example, and the treatment is different.

The behaviour of a stenosis is different to an "essential" hypertonia. At awakening time the bp
is at lowest point and bp will increase over the day due to stress and physical activity.
A stenosis is always there and the lowest point of bp in the morning will not be really low.

If you like you can do a little breathing control while measuring bp and how low you can get.
A reducing 20-30 points systolic should be possible.
The little exercise goes this way:
breathe in slowly and count to 4, stop breathing and count to 1, breathe out slowly and count to
8. After 2 minutes the difference systolic minus diastolic should be under 30 and you will get tired
due to the low bp. This is a good point to stop.

A high bp due to a stenosis will not be very impressed by a breathing control.

Ok, let us spot down 2 out of several possible reasons which are already known.

1. Daily high sugar intake as a life style has a side effect by inhibiting the blood flow.
Sugar is found within the artery walls as polysaccharides which have the bad behavior to bind additional water molecules. This causes a hardening of artery walls and inhibits blood flow.
One thing you can notice is cold hands and cold feet.
The hidden sugar depot in artery walls do not follow the glucose level in blood in the same way.
In order to empty the hidden reservoir you have to stay away from sugar for minimum 3 weeks.
But sugar comes in different ways like sweet drinks, ketchup. So it is a matter of self control
and breaking habits if you can detect sugar from food and remove it.

2. Blood is a fluid with a viscosity. The haematokrit should be around 40% (protein to total fluid).
This value should be controlled. A value of 50 or above is more than unhealthy. The viscosity decides how easy blood can travel within smallest arteries.
It is your turn to control the total protein intake of the day which should be low, for
example 55 grams a day.
Counting protein intake the key element in fighting high bp.
If you want to eat fruits and vegetables there is no really limit but when things come to protein
you have to use a weight scale for the next 6 weeks.
During high bp and related diseases it does not make much sense to waste the low protein intake
to dairy products and meat. Only raw seeds make sense and they are reliable in their behaviour.
I prefer spelt, quinoa and amaranth and the ingredients are known and safe.

The result will be a drop in bp after 2 weeks of around 10-20 points systolic and after 3 weeks
around 20-30 points systolic. The diastolic value will also drop but not the same value, maybe
10-15 points
I tested this for 6 weeks and it works.
I am 60 years and I came down from 160/100 at day to 105/68 in the morning.
BP is not a matter of age but a matter of food.

If you are on bp pills I suggest to keep them a few days and reduce them by cutting pills
under the control of a bp meter. If you keep them at full dosis they will make you very tired
which is a sign for being overmedicated.

I agree to the idea that omega-3 increases HDL which makes a stenosis unlikely in the future.

[malbecman]

Hi Krell,

As someone who has worked in the CA wine industry and has a degree in Enology somewhere in my foggy past (before becoming a more hard core scientist), let me step in a bit if I may:

Procyanodins or proanthocyandins are the most common antioxidants type compounds found in many plants. These compounds include such monomers as catechin and epicatechin which eventually polymerize to the long chain oligomeric proanthocyandins. All of these compounds have varying degrees of antioxidant capabilities (usually indicated by their ORAC score) as well as in vitro and in vivo effects. Epicatechin is the most prevalent anthocyanin in cocoa powder, esp raw cocoa powder as you said and appears to be the compound most likely responsible for bp lowering.

Also see:

http://en.wikipedia....roanthocyanidin

As an aside, the reason most wines nowadays do not have long skin contact time and lower anthocyanin content is because that is what sells best. Its also less expensive to a wine maker if they do not have to tie up their tanks for 2-3 weeks for an extended maceration (skin contact). Its a sad fact but most wine is consumed within 48 hours of purchase-Most people do not want to buy a "big" tannic wine and wait for it to age and mellow/become drinkable. Think about sweet White Zinfandel-its still one of the biggest sellers out there. I used to help make it in 50,000 gallon batches. When you do a citric acid add to a lot that size, its time to bring in the forklift with the 50lb bags of citric. FYI, it its the loss of the catechin and epicatechin monomers as they polymerize over time in the wine that leads to the decrease in astringency and makes the wine taste "better".



edit for clarity

The Kuna indians in Panama are reported to have very low BP even at advanced ages due to ingestion of many cups of cocoa per day, made from home made cocoa powder that is processed in a very primitive manner compared to commercially available cocoa. Kuna who move to big cities drink more processed cocoa and do not get the same health benefits. Search pubmed for "kuna cocoa" or see

http://www.news.harv...2/01-cocoa.html

This subject is discussed in some detail in the new book "The Red Wine Diet" by UK researcher Roger Corder.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/1583332901

Corder identifies polyphenols, especially procyanidins, as the source of this relaxation effect on blood vessel lining, and other beneficial effects. He also found that wines from the southwest of France, as well as certain regions of Sicily, Sardinia, and Crete contain higher levels of procyanidins because the wines are processed in a "primitive" manner that involves fermentation over several weeks with the grape skins and seeds. He claims that procyanidins, not resveratrol, is the solution to the "French Paradox". Most high volume "modern" wines do not have much procyanidin content because their contact time with skins and seeds are short. Corder published a 2007 Nature paper on his wine research.

Corder suggests that you need 250-500mg/day procyanidins to get the blood vessel benefits, and only a few obscure wines can give you that in 2-3 glasses (look for French wines from Madiran region, especially). His recommended wines tend to be very tannic and not very drinkable without food. Unfortunately it is not easy or inexpensive to obtain the wines that Corder recommends. I did manage to find a local source for a Madiran at about $12 per bottle, and if this wine is similar to Corder's it might have +120mg/glass. So it would cost me about $6/day to get near Corder's recommended procyanidin input by just drinking this wine. The most available wine that Corder rates is "Turning Leaf Cabernet" at ~45mg/glass. Give it a try to see the tannic taste of these wines.

Corder has made in vitro measurements to check on the effect of other sources of procyanidins, and he recommends the folloowing foods as equivalent to a glass of a good procyanidin (~60mg/glass) wine :

2 tbl/15 gms Cocoa powder (not Dutch processed)
1tsp/3 gms cinnamon
1/2 cup/40gm walnuts
1/2 cup/55gm raspberries
1 cup/110gm strawberries
1 cup blackberries
1/2 cup/55gm cranberries
1 apple (Granny Smith and Red Delicious are higher)
(see book for others)

By Corder's figures, a smoothie with most of the above ingredients would be equivalent to ~7 glasses of his good 60mg
procyanidin wine, or a total of 420mg. So that would take care of his recommended 250-500 mg/day. The Kuna indians are reported to take in about 600 mg procyanidins per day. Other studies suggest that there is a lower cutoff effect so that ingestion below 150-200 mg/day has little or no effect. One problem with Corder's food equilalents is that the USDA online tables of food procyanidin content are generally much higher than Corder's. I tried to email Corder about this but have not received a reply.

I have found that I can not take more than 15 mg of cocoa powder at one dose without getting caffine type jitters. Also I need something to sweeten it, so I add whey protein powder sweetened with sucralose to my smoothie.

Currently I make a morning smoothie with most of the above ingredients plus 2 cups of skim milk for liquid and 30 grams of vanilla protein powder with sucralose for sweetening and protein. Then I drink 1/3 of this at each meal since the Kuna and wine ingesting of procyanidins seems to be distributed over the day. I recently increased the cocoa powder to +25 grams since I am not getting over 15gms in each meal. I generally buy the cheapest components: Hersheys or Nestle cocoa power, Walmart protein powder, frozen berries, etc.

I also generally drink a glass or two (or three!) of medium procyanidin content red wine each day. Corder suggests that Cablernet Savignon is generally higher than other varieties, and as a general rule look for wine descriptions like "concentrated fruit flavors, with great acidity and a fine, full tannic finish, good aging potential".

Edited by malbecman, 10 April 2008 - 04:38 PM.

[shuffleup]

I found a good Cotes Du Rhone called Parallele 45. Any idea on the procyanodin content?

[forever freedom]

Not that i know much about supplements, but Inderal is good both for lowering anxiety and lowering blood pressure. And it's also very cheap.

[drlarryvon]

I am looking for a product that carries these ingredients:

Ingredients arjuna extract 500.0 mg indian elecampane extract 350.0 mg niacin 290.0 mg inositol hexanicotinate 270.0 mg astragalus 200.0 mg bromelain 170.0 mg magnesium 100.0 mg

Anyone can help?? Thanks