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Astragalus, Astragaloside IV


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#691 DeadMeat

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:49 PM

Can you provide the telomere lengths?


Attached File  purslaneTelomerase.bmp   1.61MB   261 downloads
More wierdness. I didn't notice that here and in figure 4 they call lane 3, 4, 5 PHAS-fed at 10, 5 and 2.5 mg/(kg day), respectively. While in figure 1 and 2 and everywhere in the text it is 2.5, 5, 10 mg/(kg day).



Three-month-old SD male mice (The Laboratory Animal Center, Tongji Medical College, Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Wuhan, China) were randomly divided into five groups. Groups 2–5 of mice received daily subcutaneous injection of d-gal (Sigma–Aldrich, MO, USA) at dose of 50 mg/(kg day) for 8 weeks, and group 1 served as vehicle control with injection of PBS only. Then the groups 3–5 of d-gal-treated mice received PHAS at doses of 2.5, 5 and 10 mg/(kg day), respectively, for another 2 weeks. Meanwhile, another group of d-gal-treated mice and the group 1 control were given distilled water (dH2O/0.1% Tween-80) without PHAS



#692 okok

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:15 PM

wiki: summer purslane (portulaca oleracea). would this be the one?
if so: indian herb: Punarva (Punarnava?) -> boerhaavia from himalaya healthcare. http://www.himalayah...s/punarnava.htm
anyone know if this is relevant?

#693 ampaynz1

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:55 PM

There is a new video that aired Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 1:00:00 PM that some might find interesting and it is titled: "Telomerase and the Consequences of Telomere Dysfunction" delivered by Nobel prize winner Carol Greider.
National Human Genome Research Institute Division of Intramural Research
The Seventh Annual Jeffrey M. Trent Lectureship in Cancer Research
Carol Greider, Ph.D.
Daniel Nathans Professor and Director, Department of Molecular Biology and Medicine The Johns Hopkins Institute for Basic Biomedical Sciences
2009 Nobel Laureate in Physiology or Medicine
60 minutes lecture presentation + lengthy introduction
watch at http://videocast.nih....asp?File=15554
You could also download it to watch offline using HiDownload program or etc. at rtsp://128.231.124.102:554/special/trent011910.rm?cloakport=8080,554
176.58MB 320x240 real streamAir date:

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#694 Suzudo

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 07:49 PM

Hello

Almost certainly the Article is purslane Portulaca oleracea. This plant has been eaten all over the earth since prehistoric times. So that is found in various places on the planet since before the arrival of Europeans
.And food in the form of salads, boiled ...

It tastes a little salty and acidic. And it is expensive to kill with several herbicides except linuron

Therefore
If you spend long life Ostensibly. That feature would have been discovered and exploited for many millennia

When extending the telomeres may have some relevant things to be known

The PHAS How was prepared?


In Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases:

http://www.ars-grin....farmacy2.pl?783

Chemicals can be found in: Portulaca oleracea L. (Portulacaceae) - Purslane, Portulaca. In scientific name

And there are many books about portulaca:

http://books.google....u...aca&f=false

http://books.google....1...aca&f=false

It seems to contain saponins
Does anyone know which saponins?

The Web has articles on extraccón of saponins from portulaca:

http://www.monografi...oleracea2.shtml


Of the molecules listed in public databases on the Internet about Portulaca, highlight:

Alpa-tocopherol:
http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=D024502

And
tocopherols:
http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=D024505

With interactions with P53 and TP53

And very potent antioxidant

The P53 gene is the regulator of cellular repair or apoptosis in case of serious injury
Whether it may or may not activate telomerase

The interaction of these molecules with the P53

Is leess than the molecule sysntetic of Rhoche laborarories: Nutlin 3:

http://ctd.mdibl.org...amp;bq=nutlin-3

Roche Laboratories for chemotherapy activating the p53 gene when no errors

But it is interesting.

There is in other substances such as portulaca

http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=C011015

or

http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=C025473


Several molecules appear to interact with the BAX gene

http://www.genecards...isp.pl?gene=BAX

relation to the P53 gene and plus pro-apoptosis activity or anti-.apoptosis

Other molecules act as androgen hormone receptors. Bringing the raw abuse portulaca UNGRADED substances can be problematic.

Which molecule would activate telomerase is on or activated?

At least contains potent antioxidants that can combine with other
and contains no synthetic activators P53

I wanted to point this out:

http://www.expasy.ch...s.pl?what=cells

if the information in this website is of interest because it contains information nourished

Shilima khemen

#695 GreenPower

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 07:56 PM

Reduced telomerase activity in human T lymphocytes exposed to cortisol.
Jenny Choi, Steven R. Fauce, and Rita B. Effros

Discussion
The major finding of this study is that exposure to a major stress hormone is associated with the down-regulation of telomerase activity in activated human T lymphocytes. Importantly, the effect of hydrocortisone was observed not only during primary stimulation but also during subsequent stimulation of previously activated T cells. If cortisol exposure in vivo exerts the same effect as we observed in vitro, our data provide a potential mechanism for the reported association between psychological stress and shortened telomeres (Epel et al., 2004; Epel et al., 2006; Damjanovic et al., 2007). Glucocorticoids (GC) have been documented to attenuate T cell receptor signaling and to suppress cellular immunity (Van Laethem et al., 2001). The present study extends this work by demonstrating an important downstream outcome of one of the major GC hormones is the blunting of telomerase activity in human T lymphocytes. Although our study did not examine the long-term outcome of reduced telomerase, we have shown the converse, namely that enhanced telomerase activity retards telomere loss and extends proliferative potential of virus-specific T cells (Dagarag et al., 2004).

Full article: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2386249/

#696 unglued

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:08 PM

All of us taking Astragaloside IV pills (or TA-65, for that matter) have been hoping, among other things, that Geron's in vitro results will hold up in a whole animal and that the chemical will still work when ingested orally, but there's been no animal research reported so far.

At Geron's quarterly earnings conference call this morning (webcast available for replay from sometime today through March 28), one of the analysts asked about telomerase activation research, near the end of the Q&A session. Dr. Okarma said that there was in fact some news: they've been doing animal tests, and the oral availability in species they've tested their drug candidate in has been unreliable or something (sorry, didn't catch the exact word), but that their chemists have figured out a way to alter it to work across all the species they've tested, and they're hoping to move forward with an IND for human study eventually. (He mentioned a specific disease that telomerase activation could be a treatment for, one I hadn't heard mentioned before.) I suppose there will be a formal announcement within a few months when results are published and then later when they receive an IND.

In the long term it's good news that the science is making progress, but from a current supplement-taking point of view, my interpretation of this is that the naturally occurring chemicals mentioned in their patent don't work in some of the species they tested and therefore seem less likely to work in humans than they did before this data.

#697 GreenPower

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 07:56 AM

All of us taking Astragaloside IV pills (or TA-65, for that matter) have been hoping, among other things, that Geron's in vitro results will hold up in a whole animal and that the chemical will still work when ingested orally, but there's been no animal research reported so far.

At Geron's quarterly earnings conference call this morning (webcast available for replay from sometime today through March 28), one of the analysts asked about telomerase activation research, near the end of the Q&A session. Dr. Okarma said that there was in fact some news: they've been doing animal tests, and the oral availability in species they've tested their drug candidate in has been unreliable or something (sorry, didn't catch the exact word), but that their chemists have figured out a way to alter it to work across all the species they've tested, and they're hoping to move forward with an IND for human study eventually. (He mentioned a specific disease that telomerase activation could be a treatment for, one I hadn't heard mentioned before.) I suppose there will be a formal announcement within a few months when results are published and then later when they receive an IND.

In the long term it's good news that the science is making progress, but from a current supplement-taking point of view, my interpretation of this is that the naturally occurring chemicals mentioned in their patent don't work in some of the species they tested and therefore seem less likely to work in humans than they did before this data.


I think the word you missed was "variable". Here's my attempt in writing down the first part of what they said:

Question) What about, I would be amiss, if I didn't ask about the Telomerase activating program in the far east. Could you go over the stats of that program?

Answer) Yeah, we're hoping actually to have some news about that one in the near future. We have generated an orally activated version of the original molecule that was discovered from an analysis of a traditional medicine library. That molecule, while very active in up-regulating telomerase in so called telomerase competent cells, which pretty much means adult stem cells in the body, was variably orally available between different animal species, making an IND submission difficult. So our chemists went to work and have come up with a chemically derivatised version of that original molecule which is very well absorbed orally in all of the species that we have tested it in. That compound is now finishing pilot toxicology in a primate study, and assuming that it comes out clean, which we will know in a month or so, then we will have what we believe to be an IND candidate of an orally taken telomerase activator. We will obviously give a lot of more details about this program if the animal studies are positive. The initial indication for this compound will be.... etc, etc.

I think this give us the following facts.
1. There's a program for this new compound in the far east.
2. Geron has "multiple" collaborators working with this new compound.
3. The new compound up-regulates telomerase in animals quite well, although they can't yet for sure say if it's toxic or not.
4. The new compound is a derivative of the old compound they found in the initial study a couple of years ago .

Just my speculations, but they didn't say anything about the oral availability of the old compound (probably referring to TAT2/Cycloastragenol) in humans, just that they couldn't use the results of orally giving it to animals to justify an IND - because the results varied between species.

#698 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 08:56 PM

Quick Question:

Should I assume similar accuracy from these two methods?

From the UCLA Study (Cycloastragenol):
Telomerase activity for all experiments was determined by the telomeric repeat amplification protocol (TRAP), using the reagents, protocol, and calculation details provided in the TRAPeze kit (Millipore; Cat. no. S7710). The amplified TRAP reaction products were separated on an 8% polyacrylamide gel, and the resulting bands were probed and analyzed using Packard InstantImager software. Telomerase activity for all samples was calculated for 10,000 cell-equivalents, according to the TRAPeze kit formula for “Total Product Generated.”

From the Purslane Mouse Study (at doses of 2.5, 5, 10 mg/(kg day))
,: The telomerase activity was measured using a PCR-TRAP ELISA kit (Roche, USA) according to the manufacturer’s description with some modifications. For the TRAP reaction, 2 μg protein was added to 25 μL of reaction mixture with the appropriate amount of sterile water to create a final volume of 50 μL. Hybridization and the ELISA reaction were carried out following the manufacturer’s instructions.


In regards to the plant used, here is what is stated (For the DIY crowd...):

The purslane herb was collected from the Department of Agent, Wuhan No.1 Hospital, Wuhan, China (herbarium no. 220-155-06). An aqueous extract of the purslane herb was boiled in the traditional way. Briefly, herbs were minced and steeped in boiling water in a proportion of 1:10 (w/v) for 3 h. This was repeated two additional times and boiled for 3 h. After boiling, the resulting crude extract was filtered and the filtered extract was evaporated to dryness under reduced pressure at 40 °C and a yield of 24–28% (w/w) was obtained. The dried powder was kept at 4 °C for future use.


What I find interesting is a comment from the Purslane study below:

Our previous research also indicates that the doses of PHAS used might be achieved through ingestion of the herb in humans was 0.810 mg/kg, and did not induce any detrimental effects (Yu Nancai et al., 2006).


Last but not least... if you are into mexican food these are called 'Verdolagas', and some people really know how to cook with them:
http://chanfles.com/...agas/index.html


Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 02 March 2010 - 09:14 PM.


#699 niner

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 10:06 PM

Should I assume similar accuracy from these two methods?

From the UCLA Study (Cycloastragenol):
Telomerase activity for all experiments was determined by the telomeric repeat amplification protocol (TRAP), using the reagents, protocol, and calculation details provided in the TRAPeze kit (Millipore; Cat. no. S7710). The amplified TRAP reaction products were separated on an 8% polyacrylamide gel, and the resulting bands were probed and analyzed using Packard InstantImager software. Telomerase activity for all samples was calculated for 10,000 cell-equivalents, according to the TRAPeze kit formula for “Total Product Generated.”

From the Purslane Mouse Study (at doses of 2.5, 5, 10 mg/(kg day))
,: The telomerase activity was measured using a PCR-TRAP ELISA kit (Roche, USA) according to the manufacturer’s description with some modifications. For the TRAP reaction, 2 μg protein was added to 25 μL of reaction mixture with the appropriate amount of sterile water to create a final volume of 50 μL. Hybridization and the ELISA reaction were carried out following the manufacturer’s instructions.

It sounds like they are both pretty sensitive.

1. Because the TRAPEZE® XL Telomerase Detection Kit detects the activity of telomerase, a RNase sensitive ribonucleoprotein, and not merely the presence of the RNA or protein components of telomerase, the assay requires enzymatically active cell or tissue samples. Furthermore, due to the sensitivity of the TRAPEZE® XL Kit assay, which can detect telomerase activity in a very small number of cells, a special laboratory setup and significant precautions are required to prevent PCR carry-over contamination and RNase contamination. These precautions are discussed in detail in Sec. V. Appendix, Laboratory Setup and Precautions and TRAPeze® XL Telomerase Detection Kit Station Setup (Area 1).
2. For Research Use Only. Not for use in diagnostic procedures.


Roche Elisa Kit docs.

Is purslane the new astrogaloside?

#700 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 04:18 PM

Is purslane the new astrogaloside?


I don't know, I have sent the study to our scientist in California to see what he thinks.

At this point we appear to know that:

1- Folate and B12 deficiencies may be an issue as men get older (http://www.ncbi.nlm....8?dopt=Abstract)
2- Telomere length appears to be preserved with aerobic exercise (http://www.ncbi.nlm....5?dopt=Abstract)
3- Some folks have better genes to keep telomere length (http://www.ncbi.nlm....1?dopt=Abstract)
4- Green Tea might help limit Telomere shortnening a bit (or long telomeres cause increased green tea consumption as Maxwatt wrote in another post) (http://www.ncbi.nlm....m&ordinalpos=20)

That last one is interesting, as green tea is supposed to inhibit telomerase, so I find it interesting.

Of course I put out a newsletter with this stuff every month, so many of you already have read these things.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 03 March 2010 - 04:20 PM.


#701 peteo

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 06:58 PM

So after reading the very long thread, the conclusion I get is the current Astral Fruit does not seem to do any thing. Am I correct?

#702 bsm

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 07:58 PM

So after reading the very long thread, the conclusion I get is the current Astral Fruit does not seem to do any thing. Am I correct?


We don't know because consumer labs do not have the technology to accurately detect yearly telomere attrition. Consumer labs use some type of fluorescent analysis on a sample as a whole and compare that to a known sample to approximate the length. They repeat this process many times on the same sample until they figure out the average.

I'm no biology major but I don't think individual cells are analyzed making the accuracy go down even more. Even if individual cells of the same type were analyzed, I believe the variation between telomeres can be +- 200-500 base pairs and humans lose between 30-50 base pairs per year.
I think we would need to find cells with the lowest telomere length and use that for the average to see if any supplement is working.

I am waiting for consumer nano measurements to measure base pairs for individual cells.

The researchers noted that they have incorporated similar nanocantilevers into optically accessible nanochannels within a microfluidic device, and suggest that such a device could be used to detect individual DNA molecules of predefined sequence. If so, such a device could eliminate the need for PCR amplification for detection of defined DNA sequences, and thus simplify methods used to screen for specific gene sequences and mutations.


http://nano.cancer.g...2005-06-06e.asp

Edited by bsm, 09 March 2010 - 08:13 PM.


#703 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 08:41 PM

peteo,

Astral Fruit-C has not been tested to make a difference yet by Repeat Diagnostics of Canada, only the older Astragaloside IV based product has. And even then, it appears that the differences seen were within the error rate of the equipment. So could it have stopped my telomere's from shrinking? Sure, however because of the error rate in the equipment I cannot make a definite or certain statement to that fact.

Does that mean it didn't do anything?
Of course not, the aim is to slow telomere attrition and possibly lengthen it. Because telomerase appears to work on the smaller telomere's over the longer one's it certainly can be an aspect that can make it difficult in testing as well.

The last test shown, simply shows the last test completed on my cells using Astragaloside IV at 100mg. I have yet to do another test using Astral Fruit-C. Since the main ingredient in Astral Fruit-C is more soluble and considered the better activator, I am hoping my next test may provide results above the error rate of the equipment that is available to test telomere length.

Also, Consumer Labs outsources their supplement testing... and they do not test human plasma only supplements at this time.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 09 March 2010 - 08:43 PM.


#704 peteo

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 09:13 PM

peteo,

Astral Fruit-C has not been tested to make a difference yet by Repeat Diagnostics of Canada, only the older Astragaloside IV based product has. And even then, it appears that the differences seen were within the error rate of the equipment. So could it have stopped my telomere's from shrinking? Sure, however because of the error rate in the equipment I cannot make a definite or certain statement to that fact.

Does that mean it didn't do anything?
Of course not, the aim is to slow telomere attrition and possibly lengthen it. Because telomerase appears to work on the smaller telomere's over the longer one's it certainly can be an aspect that can make it difficult in testing as well.

The last test shown, simply shows the last test completed on my cells using Astragaloside IV at 100mg. I have yet to do another test using Astral Fruit-C. Since the main ingredient in Astral Fruit-C is more soluble and considered the better activator, I am hoping my next test may provide results above the error rate of the equipment that is available to test telomere length.

Also, Consumer Labs outsources their supplement testing... and they do not test human plasma only supplements at this time.

Cheers
A


When do you think the tests will be complete? As of now is the Astral Fruit-C being sold have the same ingredients as the one you are using?

#705 GreenPower

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 01:41 PM

We don't know because consumer labs do not have the technology to accurately detect yearly telomere attrition. Consumer labs use some type of fluorescent analysis on a sample as a whole and compare that to a known sample to approximate the length. They repeat this process many times on the same sample until they figure out the average.

I'm no biology major but I don't think individual cells are analyzed making the accuracy go down even more. Even if individual cells of the same type were analyzed, I believe the variation between telomeres can be +- 200-500 base pairs and humans lose between 30-50 base pairs per year.
I think we would need to find cells with the lowest telomere length and use that for the average to see if any supplement is working.

I wouldn't really classify the Canadian lab as a "consumer lab". However, because we're only getting the Median Telomere Length from the chromosomes of the different types of cells from the this lab, I think it's very important we also make them to present the Standard Deviation as well. This gives an estimate on the distribution of the data points. If/when you do their tests and they don't include it, please mail them back and ask for the exact standard deviations.

#706 stephen_b

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:02 PM

consumerlabs.com

They do testing on supplements. They also have a questionable business model, IMO.

#707 tintinet

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:50 PM

consumerlabs.com

They do testing on supplements. They also have a questionable business model, IMO.



IIRC, consumerlab.com doesn't actually do any of its own testing and contracts other laboratories to test supplements for them.

Very questionable business model, I agree.

#708 Ironman-Adam

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 01:30 AM

I have a few questions regarding the compatability of various supplements with Astragalus associated telomerase activators - beyond the shortlist of inhibitors already identified and discussed.

Firstly, are the anti-glycation agents Carnosine (as well as Pyridoxamine and Benfotiamine) compatible with Cycloastragenol and Astragalosides - or even beneficial to their action? I've seen brief mention that some of these anti-glycation agents may also be Telomerase activators, despite the observation that many potent anti-oxidants appear to inhibit Telomerase.

Can anyone comment on potential complementary or antagonistic action?

#709 Michael

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 12:41 AM

are the anti-glycation agents Carnosine (as well as Pyridoxamine and Benfotiamine) compatible with Cycloastragenol and Astragalosides ...

Can anyone comment on potential complementary or antagonistic action?

No, but I can point you at evidence of the possible " Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxamine??) Neurotoxicity, Impaired Synaptic Density, Ultrastructural Damage" (see thread of that name, linked, and also my comments on that thread); and the possible cancer-permissive effect of benfotiamine.

I've quit both, myself ...

#710 Recortes

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 12:49 PM

I strongly recommend everyone interested in Telomerase activators to read the review by Vince Giuliano

http://anti-agingfir...they-really-do/


Bottom line: much publicity, not many scientific studies.


« Induced pluripotent stem cells – second-rate stem cells so far | What does resveratrol do? »
Telomerase activators – what do they really do?

Astragalus-based dietary supplements that are known to activate the expression of telomerase have been on the market for several years now. However, there appears to be a significant difference between what these supplements are widely publicized to do and what published scientific research says they actually do. Specifically, the promotion and press coverage often implies that such supplements will extend the lengths of telomeres in people who take them and thus confer longevity benefits. However, there appears to be virtually no clinical research evidence to support such claims. On the other hand, research does suggest that at least one of the supplements can provide several important health benefits. In this blog post I seek to penetrate through the thick layers of commercial and PR fog about such supplements and get down to what is actually known about their actions.

History

During the 1990s and early 2000s, Geron, a small biotech company, was a leader in research relating to telomeres and telomerase. Few scientists and no other significant biotech or pharmaceutical company paid much attention to telomeres or telomerase back then. Based on its research, Geron applied for 279 patents related to telomeres or telomerase. One of the major areas of research concern to Geron then was telomere activation as an approach to disease prevention and longevity. The company discovered that certain extracts of the astragalus plant had a capability to activate the expression of telomerase in certain cell types, at least under test-tube conditions.

From the Geron web site: “Geron, in collaboration with the Biotechnology Research Institute (BRC), a company established by the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST), began screening for telomerase activators in early 2000. The source of material for the screen was natural product extracts from traditional Chinese medicines. In the course of the screening, several extracts were discovered that reproducibly up-regulated the low, basal level of telomerase in human skin cells. With analysis of the extract and further testing, one compound in the extracts was identified as a key telomerase activator. It was capable of activating telomerase in other human cells types (e.g., lymphocyte immune cells) at very low concentrations. Another compound, a derivative of the first, was also present in the extract but at lower concentrations and was also found to possess similar telomerase activating properties. These molecules are currently under development for the treatment of degenerative diseases. Other small molecule activators discovered during the course of the research may also be developed for certain disease indications.”


The research resulted in Geron applying for a patent on telomerase activators which was finally issued just a few months ago. Filed 06/23/2004, the patent is called Compositions and Methods for Increasing Telomerase Activity. Since publication 05/15/2008, the patent application can be read by anyone and the descriptions found there still provide much of the scientific rationale for people taking astragalus-based telomerase-activator supplements. The patent application introduction states “The present invention relates to methods and compositions for increasing telomerase activity in cells. Such compositions include pharmaceutical, including topical, and nutraceutical formulations. The methods and compositions are useful for treating diseases subject to treatment by an increase in telomerase activity in cells or tissue of a patient, such as, for example, HIV infection, various degenerative diseases, and acute or chronic skin aliments. They are also useful for enhancing replicative capacity of cells in culture, as in ex vivo cell therapy and proliferation of stem cells.”


Geron subsequently shifted its focus to other areas of research including embryonic stem cell therapies and developing drugs that turn telomerase off in cancer cells. As far as I can tell, Geron is currently pursuing telomere activation mainly via a subsidiary and marketing licensing agreements. Geron is the majority owner of TA Therapeutics, a Hong Kong subsidiary which is focusing on telomerase activation for organ renewal and prolonging the lives of AIDS patients. A US company, TA Sciences, has licensed one telomerase-activator extract from Geron called TA-65 in 2002, a nutraceutical it has been marketing it to the public for over three years now.


Of the Geron-researched telomerase-activating products, two in particular have received the most attention: TA-65 being marketed to the public by TA Sciences and TAT2 under investigation as part of drug development by TA Therapeutics. Both formulations are carefully guarded proprietary secrets of the companies involved. I suspect the two substances are either highly related or identical. There has been much speculation as to what TA-65 consists of, particularly in online longevity-related forums(ref)(ref). Based on reading the Geron patent, it appears that a number of astragalus membranaceus extracts exhibit varying degrees of capability to promote the expression of telomerase(ref). One extract mentioned in the patent is astragaloside IV, and another extract with roughly ten times the activation potency is cycloastragenol, and there are others as well. Based on careful reading of the patent and the dosage originally suggested by TA sciences the best informed guess is that TA-65 and TAT2 are cycloastragenol, but this is only a guess.

TA Sciences is an active marketing company and any search on Google related to telomerase will often produce prominent advertising related to TA-65 and its health and longevity benefits. TA-65 does not come cheap. When the company first started marketing it, it was available only as part of a “Patton Protocol” package with cost of $25,000 for the first year. (Noel Patton is the founder of TA Sciences.) Now, the Patton Protocol is offered in either an a-la-cart mode or as a full package. The cost of six months of the protocol including the TA-65, some other supplements, a visit to a doctor and a number of diagnostic tests is $6,725. Cost of a six-month supply of TA-65 alone is $4,000. It is interesting that when it was originally marketed the daily dosage of TA-65 was 5 mg and the daily dosage has been increased now to 100mg, by a factor of 20. This has led to speculation that the substance may not be pure cycloastragenol which is very expensive to produce.

Besides TA-65 available from TA sciences, based on the information in the Geron patent other companies have started to market both astragaloside IV and cycloastragenol as telomerase activator supplements(ref)(rev). These supplements are being sold considerably cheaper than TA-65 with cost of a 30-day supply typically running up to $80. One such company, Revgenetics, decided to discontinue its cycloastragenol product line when the Geron patent was finally issued and sell of its existing stock at discount, charging $25 for a bottle which contains 30 5mg pills.

The concept of telomerase activation

A responsible formulation of the telomerase activation hypothesis is that through systemic intermittent activation of telomerase, specifically in stem and progenitor cells, it may be possible to delay shortening of telomeres and therefore delay the onset of multiple disease and degenerative processes associated with cell senescence. A very informative 2007 PowerPoint Presentation by Joseph M. Raffaele MD (an affiliate of TA Sciences) states the scientific rationale for telomerase activation and lays out results of a small clinical trial of TA-65. There is general consensus that too-short telomeres lead to cell senescence leading to the diseases and symptoms of aging. However, it must be pointed out that many factors affect telomere length, that many complex factors both known and yet-unknown promote or delay the onset of cell senescence, and that telomerase activation does more than affect the lengths of telomeres. For example, the protein TAp63 strongly affects senescence of stem cells(ref). I return to this important point later.

Research on telomerase activators

So, what research exists on the effects of telomerase activators beyond that which went into the patent? I will review research here that involves any of the four activator substances mentioned (TA-65, TAT2, Astragaloside IV, Cycloastragenol) recognizing that what is true for one activator may not be valid for another. With one exception, I will confine myself to publications in established journals or reputable online research publishers and will avoid ungrounded assertions in press releases or opinions stated in blogs.

· A small human trial was conducted in 2005 of TA-41, a precursor of TA-65, I believe sponsored by TA Sciences. This trial is described in a page on the TA Sciences web site and in the aforementioned PowerPoint Presentation. The trial was a 24-week double-blind, placebo-controlled study involving 36 male subjects between 60 and 85 years of age, a relatively short trial with scale far smaller than typical Phase III FDA-approved trials. TA-65 is the presumed major metabolite of TA-41. “ — subjects consumed 2 or 4 tablets daily of a placebo control substance (placebo groups) for 12 weeks or 2 or 4 tablets daily of a TA-65 precursor molecule (TA-41) for 12 weeks (product groups). The product tablets each contained 10 mg of TA-41 (an Astragalus extract) along with other botanical extracts and excipients. — The 12 week placebo or product use period was followed by a further 12 week follow-up period.” My impression is that the experimental design of the study and the treatment of statistical measures were handled quite responsibly. Nonetheless, because of the small sample size, statistical significance of the results is relatively crude. The study treated .2 as the p-value for statistical significance though in larger studies .05 or even .01 are typical values. The major benefits observed among those taking the products were “1. Apparent improvement in certain immune system measures, 2. Apparent improvement in eye sight, 3. Apparent improvement in certain sexual function measures, and 4. Apparent improvement in certain skin properties(ref).” No significant adverse events were identified. Detailed discussion and diagrams of results can be found on the TA Sciences web page for the study and in the PowerPoint presentation. To my knowledge the results of this 2005 study have never been published in an established scientific journal. Nonetheless the study seems to have been well done and I tend to take it seriously.

· Dr. Raffaele reports in his 2007 PowerPoint Presentation that “preliminary results of 16 patients o TA-65 for 3 months show an increase of mean lymphocyte telomere length.” I have seen no further or subsequent details.

· To my knowledge, there have been no further studies relating actual user experience of those taking TA-65 though by this time there should be considerable experience to report. Those taking TA-65 as part of the Patton Protocol have had extensive measurements of aging-related biomarkers and their telomere lengths. I would love to see the data derived from this user cohort laid out.

· The 2008 study report Telomerase-based pharmacologic enhancement of antiviral function of human CD8+ T lymphocytes looked at exposing lymphocyte cells from HIV-infected donors to TAT2. “ — , during aging and chronic HIV-1 infection, there are high proportions of dysfunctional CD8(+) CTL with short telomeres, suggesting that telomerase is limiting. The present study shows that exposure of CD8(+) T lymphocytes from HIV-infected human donors to a small molecule telomerase activator (TAT2) modestly retards telomere shortening, increases proliferative potential, and, importantly, enhances cytokine/chemokine production and antiviral activity. The enhanced antiviral effects were abrogated in the presence of a potent and specific telomerase inhibitor, suggesting that TAT2 acts primarily through telomerase activation.” The study suggests a possible health benefit for HIV-infected individuals, individuals who experience an extraordinary high rate of telomere shortening in immune cells due to the disease. This benefit would have to be verified in clinical tests. This study says nothing about telomere lengthening. This study was co-authored by Rita Effros, a leading researcher in the role of telomeres in HIV infections. This study, by the way, referred to the experimental substance both as TAT2 and as cycloastragenol.

· A 2005 study Telomerase Therapeutics for Degenerative Diseases describes possible benefits of telomerase activation but provides no experimental results. There are numerous studies pointing to telomere shortening as an important process contributing to the advance of HIV and studies like this 2010 one looking at telomerase activity and replicative senescence in human CD8 T lymphocytes, but none of those studies are directly concerned with telomerase activation.

· The 2009 publication Cycloastragenol extends T cell proliferation by increasing telomerase activity covers another in-vitro study reporting “Naturally, there is a great deal of interest in finding inducers of telomerase that may help delay the onset of cellular aging. There are various nutraceuticals that claim to both increase the health of individuals and delay the onset of cellular aging. We tested the nutraceuticals resveratrol and cycloastragenol for their ability to enhance T cell functions in vitro. In this study we evaluated the effect of these compounds on cellular proliferative capacity, levels of telomerase activity, surface markers and cytokine secretion of human CD4 and CD8 T cells. Our results show that cycloastragenol moderately increase telomerase activity and proliferative capacity of both CD4 and CD8 T cells. These preliminary results suggest that nutraceuticals inhibit the onset of CD4 and CD8 cellular senescence.” Like in the previously-discussed study the effect was moderate, outside the body, and the study said nothing about extending telomeres.

Of the telomerase activators mentioned, perhaps the one best covered in the research literature is astragaloside IV. As I state in my treatise; “Astragaloside IV has been systematically studied for its medicinal properties only recently, mostly in Chinese and European research centers. It is an antiinflammatory, antifibrotic and antioxidant. It is known to have vasodilation and cardioprotective properties. It is neuroprotective and can protect the myocardium against ischemia/reperfusion injury. There are no reported negative side effects. Yet, my impression is that much is yet to be learned about this substance. Specifically, there appears to be little if any research available in the public domain relating astragaloside IV’s medicinal properties to its ability to induce telomerase expression.”

Research publications related to Astragaloside IV include the 2002 publication Effects of astragaloside IV on myocardial calcium transport and cardiac function in ischemic rats, the 2004 publication Astragaloside IV protects against ischemic brain injury in a murine model of transient focal ischemia, the 2009 publication Effects of Astragaloside IV on heart failure in rats, the 2009 publication Astragaloside IV attenuates cerebral ischemia–reperfusion-induced increase in permeability of the blood-brain barrier in rats, the 2008 report Astragaloside IV inhibits spontaneous synaptic transmission and synchronized Ca2+ oscillations on hippocampal neurons, the 2006 report Effects of astragaloside IV on pathogenesis of metabolic syndrome in vitro, and Effect of astragaloside IV on hepatic glucose-regulating enzymes in diabetic mice induced by a high-fat diet and streptozotocin, and the 2006 publication Astragaloside IV from Astragalus membranaceus Shows Cardioprotection during Myocardial Ischemia in vivo and in vitro. While these and many other research publications relate to potentially beneficial effects of Astragaloside IV, none relate to or even mentions the substance’s role as a telomerase activator. Of course, some or all of the reported benefits could ultimately be due to telomerase activation.

Other than the study cited above, the only discussions of cycloastragenol health activities seem to be in longevity blogs chewing over the same material covered here. It is a relatively unfamiliar substance. As for astragaloside IV, cycloastragenol suppliers appear to be in China. Purchasing either of these supplements from a US company, it is good to be on a lookout for independent laboratory verification of contents and purity.

Observation 1: When it comes to telomerase activation, the contrast between what is reported as “research” in the general and commercial literature and what is reported in the filtered scientific research literature is singularly stark. Pubmed.org is the definitive National Library of Medicine database of medical and related scientific research, containing millions of literature abstracts covering virtually every article in every research publications worldwide. The following lists the number of items retrieved using Google and using Pubmed in response to the given query.

Query Found in Google Found in Pubmed

TA-65 + telomerase 21,100 7 (all irrelevant)

TAT2 + telomerase 4,510 1 (cited here)

astragaloside + telomerase 7,200 0

cycloastragenol + telomerase 1,820 1 (cited here)

Observation 2: Published studies suggests that telomerase activation may have a positive effect on the immune function, though this conjecture based on lab cell-level studies must be confirmed via large-scale human studies. How much affect using what activator and under what conditions are as yet not established. There is also research strongly suggesting important potential health benefits from taking astragaloside IV in particular, and possibly also from taking TAT2 (likely to be the same thing). How telomerase activation relates to the beneficial effects of these substances, however, remains mostly unstudied.

Observation 3: The case for specifically taking TA-65 is mainly based on propriety information provided by TA sciences and doctors offering TA-65 as a treatment, and by the original research done by Geron. The most compelling positive information is that derived from the 2005 human trial sponsored by TA Sciences. While TA-65 has an immense standing in the popular literature I have had trouble finding any mention of it in the published scientific literature. In fact, if a query about TA-65 is made in PubMed, part of the reply is “The following term was not found in PubMed: TA-65.”

Observation 4: I remind readers that there are research studies establishing that there are other interventions that result in longer telomeres besides taking the telomerase activators discussed here. See the January 2010 blog entry Vitamins, supplements and telomerase – upregulation or downregulation? And also see my blog entries Exercise, telomerase and telomeres, Timely telomerase tidbits, Breakthrough telomere research finding, and Telomere and telomerase writings.

Observation 5: In the scientific literature I have found no published research whatsoever that establishes that any of the telomerase activators mentioned actually extends telomeres. The closest the literature comes are statements like “moderately increases telomerase activity, ” “modestly retards telomere shortening,” and “inhibit the onset of CD4 and CD8 cellular senescence.” And these statements are based on cell-level studies with results that may or may not be applicable in live humans. It is interesting that the TA Sciences web site does not now make the claim that TA-65 actually extends telomeres. Unfortunately, however, the claim keeps popping up in news stories and some blog postings about the activator substances.

Observation 6: What telomerase activators actually do in humans remains a mystery as far as the published scientific literature is concerned, and what the two proprietary activators consist of still remains a mystery as well. I keep awaiting more trustworthy published information.

Back to the science of telomeres and telomerase

For those familiar with the great complexities of telomere biology and pathways affecting telomere length management, it should not be surprising that is not so simple as “take a telomerase activator and get longer telomeres.” Whether telomeres get longer or shorter or stay the same is determined not only by the presence of telomerase but also by interactions involving many signaling paths and activation cofactors. “Telomere transcription is regulated by several mechanisms: developmental status, telomere length, cellular stress, tumour stage and chromatin structure(ref).” Presence of a telomerase activator is only one factor in driving telomere lengths. The literature related to telomerase and telomeres is extremely extensive and I have barely touched on it here. What is largely missing is literature specifically related to the astragalus-based telomerase activators.

Further, telomerase has other activities besides telomere length maintenance. Activating the TERT telomerase component may have other positive effects without making telomeres longer. These positive effects can include promoting cellular and organismal survival(ref) and increasing the rate of differentiation of quiescent adult stem cells(ref). So, in principle at least, a telomerase activator could convey health benefits independently of affecting telomere lengths. We just don’t know the extent to which this happens in humans in response to the astragalus-based supplements.

Personal experience

My personal experience with telomerase activators may be untypical. I started taking a large dose of astragalus extract in July 2007 with the intention of telomerase activation, switched to astragaloside IV 50mg a day in August 2008. As of mid-December 2009, I switched to taking a 5mg cycloastragenol capsule together with a simple astragalus-extract pill which may possibly increase bioavailability. On February 14 2010, I upped the daily cycloastragenol dose to 10mg. So I have been on some kind of telomerase activator or the other for close to three years now. What is the effect? I don’t know, especially because of all the other anti-aging supplements I have been taking and anti-aging lifestyle patterns I have been observing. If I use the criteria mentioned in the TA Sciences trial, I can personally comment that now at the age of 80:

1. Immune system measures: I seem to have as good or possibly better resistance to infections or viruses as ever.

2. Eye sight: Distance vision acuity in both eyes is excellent though I require corrective lenses for reading and close-up vision. My last eye exam showed no progression of druzen or signs of macular degeneration.

3. Sexual function measures: No decline in desire, perhaps even a bothersome increase. Performance and satisfaction enhanced by sildenafil seems OK.

4. Certain skin properties: Quality and texture of skin for my age are excellent.

5. Hair: And I add one other thing I have been monitoring, which is hair. About a year ago I wrote in my treatise “I have noticed a few small effects so far. The light patina of grey hairs on my mostly-bald scalp seems to me to be a bit thicker with a few black hairs as well. I have been nearly bald for over 30 years. It is known that in animal models at least, conditional telomerase induction causes proliferation of hair follicle stem cells (ref). It remains to be seen whether I will see more or darker hair as I continue with telomerase activation. Also there seems to be some increase in my sexual libido but this may be a subjective impression. I also do not know if my daily schedule of alternating taking the telomerase activator with the other supplements with a few hours of separation is effective or whether I would be better off alternating every other day or even every other week.” Since then there are many more grey hairs but not black ones. I am no longer absolutely bald. The grey hairs seem to keep coming back but very slowly.

I am planning to stay with the cycloastragenol supplements until my supply runs out in 3 months or so. I am not sure what I am going to do for telomerase activation after then. I keep waiting for the “shoe to drop” with more definitive research results becoming available as I have been waiting for three years now. I think it is ridiculous that we are still relying on 2005 test data from 36 people who were on an activator for only two weeks when now many people have been on such activators for three years or more and have been subjected to systematic age-biomarker and telomere length testing.

#711 GreenPower

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 08:36 PM

I think it is ridiculous that we are still relying on 2005 test data from 36 people who were on an activator for only two weeks when now many people have been on such activators for three years or more and have been subjected to systematic age-biomarker and telomere length testing.


I agree. After all these years they should have collected lots of data. If the results were positive, there should be no reason not to make it public.

Last Friday I ended my six month period on Cyklostragenol 5mg, and are waiting for the air traffic to start again so I can send my blood sample to the canadian lab. This time I've also added a couple of other tests, one being testosterone. I want to see if there's a connection between my level of testosterone and the additional hair growth I too have experienced.

#712 bocor

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 08:48 PM

Green power.....what kind of hair growth did you notice?Was it from previously bald areas on your head? or body hair growth?And how long into Cycloastragenol did it start?Ive heard of Astragaloside 4 doing this but havent yet heard about cycloastragenol doing it yet.I just started A4 until im reasonably sure Cyclo will grow hair.Im looking to regrow some hair i lost in temple area a few years ago from mpb.thx

#713 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 08:51 PM

If it is true that they have increased the dose to 100mg, it certainly makes it seem like the last 5 years where a bit wasteful for their customers.
How positive am I that the telomerase activator works? I am in the same shoes as GreenPower...except I am not done with my 6 month regimen.

A

#714 Ironman-Adam

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:14 PM

are the anti-glycation agents Carnosine (as well as Pyridoxamine and Benfotiamine) compatible with Cycloastragenol and Astragalosides ...

Can anyone comment on potential complementary or antagonistic action?

No, but I can point you at evidence of the possible " Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxamine??) Neurotoxicity, Impaired Synaptic Density, Ultrastructural Damage" (see thread of that name, linked, and also my comments on that thread); and the possible cancer-permissive effect of benfotiamine.

I've quit both, myself ...


Interesting, Michael - thanks for the info. Considering the (thankfully reversible) cognitive damage widely associated with daily B6 doses in excess of 50 - 100 mg, I've adjusted my combined intake of all varieties appropriately.

And regarding Telomerase inhibitors, I've now compiled a more comprehensive list of substances to avoid whilst cycling on Astragalosides and Cycloastragenol:

Resveratrol
Quercetin
Melatonin
Curcumin (turmeric)
Green Tea (& other teas)
Soy
Allicin (garlic & onions)
Silymarin (milk thistle)
Cocoa (chocolate)

Polyphenols & Flavanoids
(fruit & veg antioxidants)

Vitamin E
Retinoic Acid (vitamin A)
EPA (fish oils)
Red Ginseng (& ginsenoside Rh2)
Green Marine Algae
Seaweed

Incidentally it seems the Telomerase activators Cycloastragenol, Astragaloside IV, Astragenol, and Ginsenoside Rh1 work in synergy with all the natural byproducts of healthy exercise - Testosterone, HGH, and Nirtic Oxide, which is a bonus.

Adam

Edited by Ironman-Adam, 20 April 2010 - 09:18 PM.


#715 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:20 PM

As a quick followup on the Geron patents:

Geron (Ie: Calvin Harley's) Skin Cream Patent Using Cycloastragenol Has Been Rejected By Patent Office (Yes, this is a Final Rejection.. Ouch):
http://appft.uspto.g...cycloastragenol

Geron (Ie: Calvin Harley's) High Purity Patent Using Cycloastragenol Has Been Accepted for Publication By Patent Office:
http://appft.uspto.g...cycloastragenol


Luckily, we provide unique formulation with Astragalus that has a measurable amount of Cycloastragenol, not the purified ingredient in the patent. Having said that I think we may start making a cream soon, as I find that quite important... and add a new telomerase activator (after we verify it) to the mix.

Cheers
A

#716 chrono

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:46 PM

Luckily, we provide unique formulation with Astragalus that has a measurable amount of Cycloastragenol, not the purified ingredient in the patent.

Just to clarify, are you now planning on continuing production of your cycloastragenol product?

EDIT:

(I think a little subtle product discussion should be excused, considering this is such a 'catch all' Astragaloside thread...)

LOL. Have you read this whole thread? I think we passed the "subtle" point a few hundred posts ago :|w

And regarding fish oil, I think discontinuing this for ½-¾ of the year (or whatever your cycle is) is a questionable trade-off for something that's still unproven. Anthony—any chance Dr. V might comment on this, or test it the next time he has some cultures going?

Edited by chrono, 20 April 2010 - 09:59 PM.


#717 Ironman-Adam

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:48 PM

As a quick followup on the Geron patents:

Geron (Ie: Calvin Harley's) Skin Cream Patent Using Cycloastragenol Has Been Rejected By Patent Office (Yes, this is a Final Rejection.. Ouch):
http://appft.uspto.g...cycloastragenol

Geron (Ie: Calvin Harley's) High Purity Patent Using Cycloastragenol Has Been Accepted for Publication By Patent Office:
http://appft.uspto.g...cycloastragenol


Luckily, we provide unique formulation with Astragalus that has a measurable amount of Cycloastragenol, not the purified ingredient in the patent. Having said that I think we may start making a cream soon, as I find that quite important... and add a new telomerase activator (after we verify it) to the mix.

Cheers
A

So it appears the Geron patent specifies only independantly selected isolates (and compounds of said isolates). I guess that makes sense, considering it should be hard to patent a herbal extract. For those who find monopoly by patent distasteful, I believe incorporating elements of the whole herb is more beneficial for absorbtion in any case.

So does that mean you'll now continue long term supply of your excellent Cycloastragenol formulation Anthony...? (I think a little subtle product discussion should be excused, considering this is such a 'catch all' Astragaloside thread...)

And on the topic of cream, I've actually been having a punt at topical application by opening a few capsules and making a 'home brew' preparation with a few other complimentary ingredients. I'm not sure how optimistic I'm being firstly about solution and secondly absorbtion, but as an inveterate early adopter, I think a little self testing holds definite promise!

Edit: Chrono - great minds think alike...! It seems you have quite a fan club, Mr Loera.

Edited by Ironman-Adam, 20 April 2010 - 09:54 PM.


#718 Ironman-Adam

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:11 PM

And regarding fish oil, I think discontinuing this for ½-¾ of the year (or whatever your cycle is) is a questionable trade-off for something that's still unproven. Anthony—any chance Dr. V might comment on this, or test it the next time he has some cultures going?

Indeed, I find myself giving consideration to this aspect most days... Abandoning a large part of my supplement regimen for a few months at a time is quite a big deal - although it appears current thinking is actually leaning towards periodically cycling off antioxidants et al to give your body chance to feel the stress, and respond accordingly (in a positive manner, one hopes...)

I currently tend toward the protocol of an increasing dose over 3 months, then back on to Resveratrol, fish oils, and all the other good stuff for an equal period - but I wonder if a shorter cycle might be more beneficial in providing a more frequent flush of these proven nutrients? However, I then wonder if I'm giving Telomerase a sufficiently long run up at my Telomeres...

#719 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:27 PM

Chronos,

we are still reformulating our product, however we will continue to use an Astragalus extract with measurable amounts of cycloastragenol along with a surprise or two. Give me 1-2 months to get the new formulation going.


A

#720 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 10:57 PM

And regarding fish oil, I think discontinuing this for ½-¾ of the year (or whatever your cycle is) is a questionable trade-off for something that's still unproven. Anthony—any chance Dr. V might comment on this, or test it the next time he has some cultures going?



Testing Fish oil / Omega-3 ?
Personally, I am also starting to think one needs to start/keep taking these in some form or another. As for testing it, well at the present time Dr. V is tasked to check an ingredient we have selected. It is possible it may have higher or lower telomerase activity than Cycloastragenol in plasma, I have asked him to simply provide me preliminary data before proceeding to green light the new formulation. If he has enough donor blood, I may ask him to consider other ingredients, and ask him to look at study you mentioned.

A




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