2189 replies to this topic

[chrono]

Testing Fish oil / Omega-3 ?
Personally, I am also starting to think one needs to start/keep taking these in some form or another. As for testing it...

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the possible telemorase inhibition property it shows in some circumstances, and was wondering if it might interfere in the same was resveratrol seemed to. That page at Vince's blog has a slew of studies, so I'll paste the relevant one here:

Polyunsaturated fatty acids inhibit telomerase activity in DLD-1 human colorectal adenocarcinoma cells: a dual mechanism approach.

As high telomerase activity is detected in most cancer cells, telomerase represents a promising cancer therapeutic target. We investigated the inhibitory effect of various fatty acids on telomerase, with particular emphasis on those with antitumor properties, such as eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). To evaluate the direct effect of fatty acids on telomerase, cell lysates of DLD-1 human colorectal adenocarcinoma cells were mixed with sample fatty acids, and the telomerase activity was determined. Saturated fatty acids and trans-fatty acids showed very weak or no inhibition of telomerase. In contrast, cis-unsaturated fatty acids significantly inhibited the enzyme, and the inhibitory potency was elevated with an increase in the number of double bonds. Accordingly, polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs), like EPA and DHA, appeared to be powerful telomerase inhibitors. To assess the transcriptional effect, DLD-1 cells were cultured in the presence of sample fatty acids, and telomerase activity and gene expression were subsequently evaluated. Culturing DLD-1 cells with either EPA or DHA resulted in a remarkable decrease in telomerase activity. EPA and DHA inhibited telomerase by down-regulating human telomerase reverse transcriptase (hTERT) and c-myc expression via protein kinase C inhibition. These results indicate that PUFAs can directly inhibit the enzymatic activity of telomerase as well as modulate the telomerase at the transcriptional level.

PMID: 16216547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The recent longitudinal study showed a 32% decrease in the odds of telomere shortening over 5 years. So I suppose cancerous cells may be the only kind in which it displays an inhibitory response, but isn't this what can be concluded about resveratrol from the literature as well?

Since fish oil is near the top of a lot of people's no-brainer supplement list, having a more specific answer about how it might interact with the astragalus compounds would be pretty valuable.

Edited by chrono, 20 April 2010 - 11:51 PM.

[lily liu-kingtiger]

Checking out sources for Astragaloside IV

Hi,Edward. I am in china and know the cheapest/best source of different specification of Astragaloside IV.Also Cycloastragenol too.
If you are still interested in,please fee free to contact me.

[Lallante]

Every time I read this topic I read "Astroglide".

Dirty mind I guess...

[mikeinnaples]

Checking out sources for Astragaloside IV

Hi,Edward. I am in china and know the cheapest/best source of different specification of Astragaloside IV.Also Cycloastragenol too.
If you are still interested in,please fee free to contact me.

Unfortunately ...your said it yourself, you are in China. Anything from China is suspect until proven otherwise.

[chrono]

Unfortunately ...your said it yourself, you are in China. Anything from China is suspect until proven otherwise.

haha, if I was Chinese, I might take that the wrong way But when it comes to export chemicals, you're right.

Out of curiosity, do we know any labs that could assay astrogaloside IV at a non-prohibitive price?

Edited by chrono, 21 April 2010 - 12:16 PM.

[lily liu-kingtiger]

Unfortunately ...your said it yourself, you are in China. Anything from China is suspect until proven otherwise.

haha, if I was Chinese, I might take that the wrong way But when it comes to export chemicals, you're right.

Out of curiosity, do we know any labs that could assay astrogaloside IV at a non-prohibitive price?

Hi, all. Facts speak louder than words. If you are official company, I can send astragaloside IV/ Cycloastragenol to you first. And you can pay after proven the quality.

[stephen_b]

If you are official company, I can send

Forum rules on commercial posts.

[bsm]

consumerlabs.com

They do testing on supplements. They also have a questionable business model, IMO.

Is there a better place for testing supplements? I am going to start taking purslane supplements from Natural Plantation but I've never heard of Natural Plantation before I found them with google.

Edited by bsm, 26 April 2010 - 08:14 PM.

[Suzudo]

Hello


Journal of Experimental Biology, 16 april 2010 : “Chitosan produces potent neuroprotection and physiological recovery following traumatic spinal cord injury.”

[unglued]

Astral Fruit-C has not been tested to make a difference yet by Repeat Diagnostics of Canada, only the older Astragaloside IV based product has. And even then, it appears that the differences seen were within the error rate of the equipment. So could it have stopped my telomere's from shrinking? Sure, however because of the error rate in the equipment I cannot make a definite or certain statement to that fact.

I prefer to put it a different and starker way: Anthony second test showed him being about 15 years older than he was 6 months before, plus or minus about 15 years. There's room in that error range for the optimistic hypothesis that he stopped aging during those six months, but obviously there's also room for the hypothesis that it did nothing at all, or that it did the opposite of what we want. We may never know, since his next test will be after switching to Astral Fruit-C.

[ken_akiba]

http://anti-agingfir...they-really-do/
http://greenwood.s5.com/home.html

Their names are different but I was wondering that many of their posts read very similar. Are they same person?
I have been following the latter but he added no new materials almost a year now. Is anyone in contact with him?

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Unglued, I do hate the error rate for the test. I switched to see if the new formulation with a more soluble substance and UCLA tested ingredient, provide better results. I am leaning that they will, as the in vitro preliminary tests that Dr. V did, were pretty good. But of course... that was a petri dish with human blood cells, not a human.

Hi ken_akiba, Greenwood has posted here, and yes they are different people.

Cheers
A

[ken_akiba]

Hi Unglued, I do hate the error rate for the test. I switched to see if the new formulation with a more soluble substance and UCLA tested ingredient, provide better results. I am leaning that they will, as the in vitro preliminary tests that Dr. V did, were pretty good. But of course... that was a petri dish with human blood cells, not a human.

Hi ken_akiba, Greenwood has posted here, and yes they are different people.

Cheers
A

Thank you for that. So I take it that you personally know these people? But I have to mention that some of their posts are... nearly identical.
And when was Greenwood's last post here and what is his username? I'd love to read what he has to say in this forum.

Thanks.

[chrono]

I prefer to put it a different and starker way: Anthony second test showed him being about 15 years older than he was 6 months before, plus or minus about 15 years. There's room in that error range for the optimistic hypothesis that he stopped aging during those six months, but obviously there's also room for the hypothesis that it did nothing at all, or that it did the opposite of what we want. We may never know, since his next test will be after switching to Astral Fruit-C.

Exactly; though I don't think we would have known in any event, unless had Anthony continuted these tests for many more years.

As someone who recently read through this whole thread in the course of a few days, I feel like a lot of importance was attached both to TAScience practices and results from the blood tests. Even though the natural variables and range of error of this test make results nearly irrelevant (at least over relevant timespans), there was a noticeable deflation of enthusiasm when Anthony got his second test back, including his decision to stop selling A4 and switch to cycloastragenol.

While the cyclo seems at least equally promising, I think we may still have some unreasonable expectations based on trying to duplicate the TASciences protocol. As I understand it, their bold claims are based on a small trial, the promise of which has presumably not been borne out in practice (I'm certain there would be more mention of it on their webpage, besides the one testimonial). And their business model is so very sketchy, I have a hard time assigning much validity to that original trial.

I think the results of the in vitro tests in the original Geron patent, and the ones Dr. V is doing, might be the most realistic predictors we can expect for a while. These, along with some of the excellent theoretical discussions in this thread and the non-age-related benefits of this plant, have convinced me to start on these compounds soon. Will probably be doing whole astragalus for a while, depending on what Anthony comes up with for his next formulation

(Anthony, did you see the clarification about fish oil in my last post? Not trying to push it as a research priority, but just want to be sure you saw that I was suggesting it as a potential interference, and not a suggestion for inclusion).

[GreenPower]

A few days ago I got the results from my third health check, which I did two days after ending my second 3-month period on Cyclostragenol. I do these "conventional" tests in order to see if my overall health improves or declines during the test periods.

For reference I also include the results of my first two health checks (posted here before). These were the health checks I did before using AIV and after using AIV.

The complete results from the health checks were as follows.

Health Check 1 - "Baseline test" before starting to use AIV
Please note that I made use of other Astragalus extracts, Gingko Biloba and was working in a stressful environment before health check 1. This may or may not have had an effect on numbers. The level of stress have remained constant during both test periods.
.
Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 103 kg.......................................
BMI: 29.7............................................<25
Blood preassure: 110/70..............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 164................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 4.8........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 4.......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.57...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.90...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 6.7.....................................31-40 year: 3.3 - 6.9
Triglycerides: 1.1...................................0.45-2.6
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.7..................................<3.0

Health Check 2 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Astragaloside IV
I took AIV during two periods of 3 months, with a three week interval in between. During the first period I used 3 x 33mg and the second was 1 x 100mg + Chitosan. The second period also included the use of Orlistat (3x120mg) which I started with directly after the first period and also Gingko Biloba (1x100mg) which I used during the last six weeks.

Measuring point .....................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 96 kg........................................
BMI: 27.7............................................<25
Blood preassure: 120/70..............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 153................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 5.3........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 10......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.44...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.55...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.1.....................................31-40 year: 3.3 - 6.9
Triglycerides: 1.4...................................0.45-2.6
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 0.9...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.9..................................<3.0


Health Check 3 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol
I took Cykloastragenol during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between. During both periods I used Cycloastragenol 1x5mg (including Chitosan 1mg), Gingko Biloba 1x100mg, Orlistat 2-3x120mg.

Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 94,8 kg......................................
BMI: 27.4............................................<25
Blood preassure: 115/70..............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 146................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 5.3........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 6.......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 88.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.48...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.56...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.0.....................................31-50 year: 3.3 - 6.9 mmol/l
Triglycerides: 1.0...................................0.45-2.6 mmol/l
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.9..................................<3.0 ng/ml


Comments

• The last few weeks before health check 3 I actually started to phase out the use of Orlistat and now only use it sporadically. This is because my body seem to have adapted to the regular intake of Orlistat, making it quite useless from a weight loss perspective. The effect seem to have increased again when only using it sporadically.
• I still used Gingko Biloba in order to boost my mental abilities at work.
• I've done no physcial training what so ever, due to lack of time, which is due to way too much work.
• HB is a bit lower, which might be attributed to this specific Cycloastragenol formulation probably containing less iron than ordinary Astragalus or the Astragaloside IV extracts I've used before. Maybe Anthony might shed some light on whether his Cyclostragenol formulation contains any "raw root powder", which I believe his Astragaloside IV formula did. If it does not, this might explain the lower HB value.
• SR was decreased 40%, which would mean I had less "inflammation" in the body at the time the sample was taken compared with "health check 2".
• Kidney values were slighty higher (13%), which might indicate a slightly decreased kidney flitration capacity. It might also indicate that I eat more protein (for example meat contains creatine, but as I understand it, this will only show on tests a few hours after the meal and I don't eat breakfast before doing these tests), that I was drinking too little water before the test was done (unkown if I did), or that my muscle mass have increased (my skeletal muscle have been stable, though). I do however note that Cycloastragenol, like all Astragalus extracts I've tried, seem to have a diuretic effect.
• Triglycerides was about 30% lower. Because calories ingested in a meal and not used immediately by tissues are converted to triglycerides and transported to fat cells to be stored, my interpretation is that my calorie intake now is more in balance with what my body actually needs. Or that Orlistat has an effect on this value.
• PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen) and other measured items did not change in a significant way.

Test results I'm still waiting for

• FLOW-Fish test. I've noticed the Canadian lab now charge 50% extra in order to measure the standard deviations, making the test quite expensive.
• Cortisole, DHEA, Testosterone and Melatonin. These are handled by a european lab.

Edited by GreenPower, 02 May 2010 - 09:17 AM.

[GreenPower]

Green power.....what kind of hair growth did you notice?Was it from previously bald areas on your head? or body hair growth?And how long into Cycloastragenol did it start?Ive heard of Astragaloside 4 doing this but havent yet heard about cycloastragenol doing it yet.I just started A4 until im reasonably sure Cyclo will grow hair.Im looking to regrow some hair i lost in temple area a few years ago from mpb.thx

I made made some postings about this when using AIV. Please see here: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=32278

I can add the following information:
1. It's on previously bald areas on my head. Please note that these areas are very small and located at the fronthead and "upper temples". This hair their disappeared when I was about twenty and my hairline has since remained constant.
2. After the six months on Cyclostragenol the "white down" has grown another 1-2mm. It's however still white down and not "hair". I've still seen no indication of coloration.

I guess that the added millimeters might as well be a delayed effect from using AIV as of using Cycloastragenol.

[Anthony_Loera]

Thanks GreenPower for the posts, I appreciate the information.

Chrono, I understand the context of the studies and it maybe that Omega 3 may to slow attrition, yet down regulate telomerase. At this point, we can only treat 'Fish Oil' or Omega 3 like the other substances that may slow telomere attrition, such as Folate and B12 which men may be deficient in, as they get older. We have a newsletter links that we post on our blog section that reported the studies back in January, while we mentioned Folate and B12 for men in our February newsletter.

As soon as I know if the new substance we are testing is verified, I will provide a ETA date for the release of the new formulation.

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 02 May 2010 - 11:38 PM.

[Suzudo]

As reported in nature the TAT2 is cycloastragenol

The astragliside IV may be transformed into cycloastragenol by hydrolysis. May have managed to hydrolyze and debug in an industrial quantity?

Does anyone know anything about the substance Stivid?

In my country is taking fashion this http://www.revidox.com. Does anyone know anything?


Shilikma khemen

[rooter]

I'm not concerned that some spirits are dampened by the nay-sayers. I choose to believe that cycloastragenol is the best technology we have right now for telemere remediation.

If I can only find a source for it, I'll take it in the evening, and resveratrol in the morning, that hopefully they won't negate one another. What would be a good daily dose of cycloastragenol? Any reliable sources?

I'm not sure what Anthony means by 'new formulation', but I hope cycloastragenol won't be mixed with several other compounds as I will have no interest. I want the pure stuff, so I can choose how to administer.

Edited by rooter, 17 May 2010 - 01:33 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Rooter,

all I believe you are saying is that you want pure substances (whatever they may be).

In the beginning of the resveratrol craze, every one provided resveratrol at a purity of 50% or less. Now you find companies like mine provide 99% pure resveratrol. Still having 99% pure material is more expensive, than our 50% material.

Since you appear to have money for the more expensive, and pure material, I am sure they will be available in the near future as pricing comes down and is more popular. For now though, the Cycloastragenol that we provide in our product is pretty good in vitro: http://www.jimmunol....Abstracts/90.30

You may notice our CSO's name is at the top of this page, and they used a particular nutraceutical.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 17 May 2010 - 02:14 PM.

[rooter]

What's a CSO?

[Anthony_Loera]

Chief Science Officer

A

[Suzudo]

umm

On the formulation of a product
Revgenetics "could offer different products or products Lien with different formulations?

I mean a mixture or other of various substances in one capsule, depending on how the research will advance.


Resveratrol is linked to the repair of cellular damage it?
Do you produce resveratrol in the state of cellular senescence?
Occurs in normal states?
When?

If the cell is damaged and needs major repair, then the telomerase not be activated right?

There were my doubts

That is, do not be taken well before the cycloastragenol or other trigger?

Are there in vitro studies with resveratrol and cycloastragenol at once and separated?


Shilima khemen

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Suzudo,

any new telomerase product will contain:
1- Items that activate telomerase
2- Items that increase absorption
3- And the formulation will not contain telomerase inhibitors

Pretty simple.
If we find a telomerase activator as good as Cycloastragenol or better than Cycloastragenol, it will end up in the formulation.

Resveratrol will not be added to the formulation because it is considered a telomerase inhibitor. You will need to take the two separately by more than 3 hours apart although we recommend to consider cycling these weekly.

A

[GreenPower]

Green power.....what kind of hair growth did you notice?Was it from previously bald areas on your head? or body hair growth?And how long into Cycloastragenol did it start?Ive heard of Astragaloside 4 doing this but havent yet heard about cycloastragenol doing it yet.I just started A4 until im reasonably sure Cyclo will grow hair.Im looking to regrow some hair i lost in temple area a few years ago from mpb.thx

I made made some postings about this when using AIV. Please see here: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=32278

I can add the following information:
1. It's on previously bald areas on my head. Please note that these areas are very small and located at the fronthead and "upper temples". This hair their disappeared when I was about twenty and my hairline has since remained constant.
2. After the six months on Cyclostragenol the "white down" has grown another 1-2mm. It's however still white down and not "hair". I've still seen no indication of coloration.

I guess that the added millimeters might as well be a delayed effect from using AIV as of using Cycloastragenol.

I've now got the results of three more of the tests I did. The first result may have a bearing on the topic of "hair growth".

Health Check 3 - Tuesday, three days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol - Testosterone
I took Cykloastragenol during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between. During both periods I used Cycloastragenol 1x5mg (including Chitosan 1mg), Gingko Biloba 1x100mg, Orlistat 2-3x120mg.

The results show rather low values of testosterone where three values out of four are within the reference range. The fourth value is below the reference range.
According to the laboratory, these are the possible explanations to the low fourth value
"Decreased testosterone levels are associated with fatigue, depression, irritability, decreased libido, impotence, infertility, weight gain, gynecomastia, decreased muscle mass and strength, decreased hematocrit, diminishing body and facial hair and increased risk for osteoporosis. Decreased salivary testosterone levels may be seen in primary and/or secondary hypogonadism, hypothyroidism, or in obesity with a body mass index of 30 or greater. Decreased salivary testosterone levels may also result from increased sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), especially in older men. Elevated SHBG may be due to increased estrogen levels, which will raise SHBG levels."

My comments to this:
fatigue - maybe
depression - no
decreased libido - no
impotence - no
infertility - don't know
weight gain - maybe, i did have a weight problem
gynecomastia - no
decreased muscle mass and strength - no, it has remained constant even though I've done no training what so ever
decreased hematocrit- unlikely, but i've not done any tests
diminishing body and facial hair - no
increased risk for osteoporosis - don't now, i've not done any tests
secondary hypogonadism - unlikely, but i've not done any tests
hypothyroidism - unlikely, but i've not done any TSH-tests
body mass index of 30 or greater - no
increased sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) - don't know, i have done no tests. according to my genetic profile I should have 15% higher SHBG than average, though.

Then we also have the possibility that taking AIV and/or Cycloastragenol might decrease your level of testosterone.

Because high doses of testosterone in often associated with baldness, I suppose the opposite correlation should also exist. Thereby it's not impossible to imagine that a decrease in Testosterone may have something to do with my "new white down". Because I don't have a baseline value of my testosterone value before I started on Cycloastragenol or AIV, it's however not possible to say whether my testosterone level has decreased or not. The only conclusion I can draw for certain is that it's currently quite low.

I would recommend people who consider starting taking AIV or Cycloastragenol in order to regain hair growth to take a baseline test of their testosterone levels before they decide. The test is fairly cheap and easy to do (it's a saliva test). If you already have low testosterone levels it's probably no use taking AIV or Cycloastragenol. You may then take another testosterone test after you have been using AIV or Cycloastragenol for maybe six months in order to see if the testosterone level has dropped or not.

It might also be that AIV and/or Cycloastragenol is actually making your hair follicles younger, but good luck trying to prove that!

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[rooter]

So is Astral Fruit -The- way to get cycloastraganol?

[ken_akiba]

Interesting, GreenPower.
I remember reading a recent article suggesting Testosterone is actually a growth inhibitor. I also remember reading from history books that castrated kids grow larger in size.
Is it possible to interprete it that lowered Testosterone level could be an indirect sign of growth (rejuvenation)? That is of course, under the assumption that Cycloastragenol indeed works.

Btw I thought one star rating for someone like you is injustice, so I gave you 5 star.

[rwac]

Interesting, GreenPower.
I remember reading a recent article suggesting Testosterone is actually a growth inhibitor. I also remember reading from history books that castrated kids grow larger in size.

Actually, testosterone promotes growth somewhat, but estrogen closes the growth plates. But testosterone is converted to estrogen in boys...

[GreenPower]

Interesting, GreenPower.
I remember reading a recent article suggesting Testosterone is actually a growth inhibitor. I also remember reading from history books that castrated kids grow larger in size.
Is it possible to interprete it that lowered Testosterone level could be an indirect sign of growth (rejuvenation)? That is of course, under the assumption that Cycloastragenol indeed works.

Btw I thought one star rating for someone like you is injustice, so I gave you 5 star.

Thanks, I haven't even reflected about there being a voting system

My runner-up theory for the quite low testosterone values is fatigue. The basis for this guess is the Cortisol test I did. This will however take some time to write about, and I do have a rather good argument against it as well. I hope to have the time to post it in a few days. In the meanwhile, here's the Melatonin test.

Health Check 3 - Tuesday, three days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol - Melatonin
I took Cykloastragenol during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between. During both periods I used Cycloastragenol 1x5mg (including Chitosan 1mg), Gingko Biloba 1x100mg, Orlistat 2-3x120mg.

There's nothing much to say about this one. It looks normal. Here are the comments from the laboratory.
Melatonin activity is normal throughout the sample period revealing a normal melatonin circadian rhythm. As well as playing a crucial role in sleep-wake cycles, melatonin influences other vital functions, including cardiovascular and antioxidant protection, endocrine function, immune regulation and body temperature.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by GreenPower, 19 May 2010 - 05:45 PM.

[niner]

For now though, the Cycloastragenol that we provide in our product is pretty good in vitro: http://www.jimmunol....Abstracts/90.30

You may notice our CSO's name is at the top of this page, and they used a particular nutraceutical.

You mean your CSO is an author of that paper? Which author is it? I take it RG provided the compounds for the in vitro work. Do you have access to the full text? It would be interesting to see the results.