2189 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi niner,

As the link stated, "These preliminary results suggest that nutraceuticals inhibit the onset of CD4 and CD8 cellular senescence". I basically asked Dr. V (Hector Valenzuela) our CSO, to see if the material we provided can match the UCLA results. He has mentioned to me that our material apparently does, I will ask him about it some more as he will be testing new material for us.

As a researcher, he has recently received a visiting scholar designation at UCLA to work on a few different research projects. I suspect he will be co-publishing some results regarding different projects that will be very useful for folks to consider. His bio and personal introduction is on our website and May newsletter if you are wondering or have more questions about Dr. V.

I expect telomerase results with various materials we are providing, will be interesting to everyone, once they are published.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 20 May 2010 - 01:12 PM.

[rooter]

Can anyone tell me where to get cycloastraganol?

[stephen_b]

Here.

[Ironman-Adam]

I take an increasing dose of Cycloastragenol over a 3 month period. At later higher doses, rather than taking a single serving, is there potential benefit from splitting the dose of Cycloastragenol to get a double daily hit - or would this more likely simply hasten your body's resistance to more frequent exposure?

Cheers

[rooter]

... also, is a large percentage destroyed in metabolism, as with resv? IOW would mouthwashing bucally for 5 minutes be best?

[rooter]

... also, is a large percentage destroyed in metabolism, as with resv? IOW would mouthwashing bucally for 5 minutes be best?

Nobody?

[Anthony_Loera]

There are no human metabolic studies at this point (or plasma studies after oral intake), for any telomerase activators. However solubility is key for absorption, cycloastragenol does have this advantage over A4.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 28 May 2010 - 05:17 PM.

[johnross]

... also, is a large percentage destroyed in metabolism, as with resv? IOW would mouthwashing bucally for 5 minutes be best?

Nobody?

This looks like an important subject to get researched. What are the relative levels in the blood when cycloastragenol is taken by swallowing or sublingually. Are the differences known and published for other substances? Obviously supplement manufacterers can't recommend sublingual dosing for regulatory reasons but there's no reason other people shouldn't if it's beneficial. I couldn't afford the quantities now prescribed by TA Life Sciences but if the sublingual route offered the same benefit for 1/10 the dose, or whatever, I would be very happy.

Edited by johnross, 30 May 2010 - 08:28 PM.

[rooter]

Looks like that would be beyond any of us.

I am wondering whether this new formulation is mainly to avoid potential patent claims? (although I doubt cycloastragenol is the patented compound) If so, would it be wise to buy as much astral fruit now as we can, as it's pure?

... Or is the reformulation aimed at efficacy?

[Suzudo]

hello

http://digital.csic....18095?idioma=en

In announcements i have heard that 2000 times have managed to increase production in grapes resverartol


Any technique for stimulating the production of astragaloside IV or cycloastragenol in astragalus?


Shillima khemen

[Anthony_Loera]

... also, is a large percentage destroyed in metabolism, as with resv? IOW would mouthwashing bucally for 5 minutes be best?

Nobody?

This looks like an important subject to get researched. What are the relative levels in the blood when cycloastragenol is taken by swallowing or sublingually. Are the differences known and published for other substances? Obviously supplement manufacterers can't recommend sublingual dosing for regulatory reasons but there's no reason other people shouldn't if it's beneficial. I couldn't afford the quantities now prescribed by TA Life Sciences but if the sublingual route offered the same benefit for 1/10 the dose, or whatever, I would be very happy.

TA 'Life' Sciences does not offer cycloastragenol according to their label. Also, their 'supplement' label does not conform to FDA regulations, and as long as they label does not meet FDA requirements it will never be sold by itself, online, or in any stores. I suspect it will be investigated by the FDA as soon as there is a complaint, as the registered trademark alone does not protect against not showing the true ingredients they use and would considered adulterated if they would ever to be sold in stores and the like.

Our old formulation is now out of stock, our 3rd generation formula which continues to use UCLA tested telomerase activation ingredients, will be out in July. More information will be available then.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 03 June 2010 - 12:21 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

Guess that means no more cycloastragenol then.

I thought your reasoning behind removing it was patent violation?

[rooter]

Anyone know of another source for cycloastragenol?

[mikeinnaples]

Anyone know of another source for cycloastragenol?

curious about that myself

[chrono]

Will probably be difficult to source if it's now a patent issue. I imagine it would be possible to get from our friends in the orient, provided you have at least $500 to spend.

[Anthony_Loera]

I re-read my last post, and nowhere did I mention anything about the new formulation not having cycloastragenol...

Can you help me understand how you all made that assumption?
The only thing I said was that TA folks did not use it according to the label, I never said that we stopped using it.

I am very confused how my post was misread, what happened mike?

And just so that it remains crystal clear:
The new formulation continues to have a very measurable amount of cycloastragenol extracted from astragalus.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 04 June 2010 - 12:43 PM.

[rooter]

It's not that we thought that it has no cycloastragenol. I think we want pure cyclo, not mixed with some nebulous ingredients which may or may not benefit. This is all uncertain enough...

Further we'd understood you to say you've pulled your astral fruit, so there is now no apparent source for cyclo. Your new product (whatever its merit) will not be available for a month. This is why we're casting around for another source.

Edited by rooter, 04 June 2010 - 03:09 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

rooter...

the ingredients have been tested to activate telomerase.

Purity has never been an issue for this ingredient, as you know most vitamins themselves are not 100% pure. Most are much lower as seen in the list below, so unless there is an issue with the other percentage that is not cycloastragenol, then your objection is not warranted.

Oh and Yes, the material which is not 100% cycloastragenol still activates telomerase as an herbal extract. When I found this out after a call to Dr. V who was doing in vitro tests (before we made our first cycloastragenol product available) I really was very happy and wanted to do cartwheels! Trust me, it was right at that moment that I really knew we had something very special for folks.

See some samples of purity in your own vitamins:
==========================================
Tocotrienol 51.0%
Vitamin K2 MK-7 0.2%
Vitamin K 1 (Phytonadione) 1% 1.0%
Boron AminoAcid (Glycinate) Complex 10.0%
Chromium Nicotinate Glycinate Chelate 2.5%
Potassium Iodide 76.5%
Magnesium Glycinate Chelate 10% 10.0%
Methyl-selenocysteine 0.5% 0.5%
Zinc Glycinate Chelate (Albion) 20% 20.0%
Choline Bitartrate 45% Conditioned 45.0%
Lutein 5% (Flora Glo) * 5.0%
Lycopene Extract 5% 5.0%
Lithium Orotate 9% 9.0%
Molybdenum Chelate .2% 0.2%
==========================================


Don't get me wrong, purity has been an issue with resveratrol, because of emodin content in polygonum which can cause bad stomach issues, however it has not been an issue in astragalus, other herbs or other vitamins you probably take.

About access to cyclo, yes you are absolutely correct about the second part of your post:
New folks looking for cyclo, folks that did not stock up while the sale was on, and folks that did not sign up for a recurring shipment will not have a source of cycloastragenol until July.

I am sure folks that did stock up, and those on recurring... are really very happy right now, because they got the sale price. Since you probably have not been around much, I will also let you know that recurring folks actually get the new product at the old sale price as well (we have done this with other products, and we will do this with this one as well).

Everybody else, simply has to wait until sometime in July.

Cheers
A

[GreenPower]

Health Check 3 - Tuesday, three days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol - Cortisol and DHEA
Here I have data from two earlier tests as well. I've presented them earlier in this mail thread, but excluded the graphs. Here the results are again, including the graphs.

BACKGROUND
Recap from one of my earlier posts, to give some background about the first two tests
I've been been working as an IT-consultant in a stressful environment for many years, the last four or five of them very stressful. I therefore took two DHEA-S/Cortisol tests some time back (about half a year apart). The first was very bad, with a cortisol-time-curve indicating levels too close to indicate addison's disease for comfort. After this test I started to take Astragalus (standardised Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg). First once a day, but soon three times a day (morning, lunch, evening). I also took Ginkgo biloba L. 100 mg (24 mg ginkgoflavonidglycosides , 6 mg terpenoids) twice daily. When retaking the DHEA-S/Cortisol test about half a a year later it was, if not good, at least measurable better. The amount of stress experienced during the period was unchanged.

Comments on the results from the lab which supports my statement about stress
A pattern showing one or more decreased cortisol levels, while the level of DHEA is within the reference range, is clinically significant. The pattern suggests adrenal hypofunction of the zona fasciculata (the primary source of cortisol). At this time there is no evidence of hyperfunction of the zona reticularis (the primary source of DHEA). A degree of adrenal hypofunction is suggested, which has been noted in fatigue disorders, physiological or psychological stress, anxiety, hypotension and/or hypoglycemia.

The third test
After the second test I did half a year on AIV+GB+Orlistat and half a year on Cycloastragenol+GB+Orlistat and then I took the test again

First half year
3 months - AIV 3x33mg only
3 months - AIV 1x100mg + Chitosan, Orlistat 3x120mg and Gingko Biloba 1x100mg

Second half year
Cykloastragenol during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between. During both periods I used Cycloastragenol 1x5mg (including Chitosan 1mg), Gingko Biloba 1x100mg, Orlistat 2-3x120mg.

The amount of stress during all of the above periods have been pretty much constant, working a lot of overtime and not allowing for a real rest period.

ANALYSIS/COMMENTS
DHEA
Between the first, the second test and the third test the level of DHEA increased from 137 to 158 to 223. According to the Wikipedia entry on DHEA, the substance decrease in the body with about 2% each year after you have turned 25. This mean that the combination of substances above would seem to have increased my level of DHEA, even though it should have been declining. Because I did not take Orlistat during the first increase of DHEA, I think the effect might be attributed to either Astragalus and/or Gingko Biloba.

Wikipedia also states that as most DHEA is produced by the zona reticularis of the adrenal, it is argued that there is a role in the immune and stress response. This might mean that a higher level of DHEA helps the body to handle stress and maybe just returned my DHEA to the levels where they should have been if it wasn't for the negative effects of stress. This might also explain why the cortisol values got better with each test. As I will show in my next posting (also posted before), the telomeres in my immune system cells were in pretty good shape some time after I took the second test (except for my Natural Killer Cells). Wikipedia also states that the researches found that low levels of DHEA-s showed a significant association with shorter lifespan and that higher DHEA-s levels are a "strong predictor" of longevity in men, even after adjusting for age, blood pressure, and plasma glucose, which might support some kind of relation between the lengths of telomeres and the changes of levels of DHEA.

The lab had the following comments on the DHEA-results on the last test
DHEA is within the reference range. Proper levels contribute to the ideal metabolism of proteins, carbohydrates and
fats, including efficient glycemic control.

The ratio of DHEA to cortisol is normal. This ratio indicates a relative balance of the adrenal output of androgens
and cortisol. Both of the hormones are released in response to ACTH from the pituitary and a normal ratio indicates a
balanced function of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis.

Cortisol
The cortisol levels of the first test was not very good. They were outright bad. After almost half a year on a standardized Astragalus extract + Gingko Biloba they showed a significant improvement. After continuing on AIV/Cycloastragenol for another year, they have mostly improved even more. The exception is the late night cortisol, which the lab considers to be a baseline value.

Specifically, the lab have the following comments on the cortisol levels for each time of the day on the last test:
In this profile, the 7-9 AM cortisol level is within the reference range. Because cortisol levels are typically at their
peak shortly after awakening, morning cortisol may be a good indicator of peak adrenal gland function. Morning
cortisol levels within reference range suggest a component of normal adrenal function with regard to peak circadian
activity.

The 11 AM-1 PM cortisol level is within the reference range. Mid-day cortisol levels may be a good indication of
adaptive adrenal gland function since they represent the adrenal glands' response to the demands of the first few hours
of the day. Mid-day cortisol levels within reference range suggest a component of normal adrenal function in regard to
adaptive response.

The 3-5 PM cortisol level is within the reference range. Afternoon cortisol levels may be a good indication of the
adrenal glands' ability to help regulate blood sugar, since they represent a postprandial sample. Afternoon levels
within the reference range suggest normal adrenal function, especially in the area of glycemic control.

The 10 PM-12 AM cortisol level is below the reference range. Late-night cortisol levels may be a good indication of
baseline adrenal gland function since they typically represent the lowest level during the day. Low late-night cortisol
levels suggest a degree of adrenal fatigue with regard to baseline circadian activity.


I recently got the results from the flow-FISH test on my telomere lengths after completing six months on Cycloastragenol. I will post them as soon as I get some time.

Attached Thumbnails

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[rooter]

rooter...
... then your objection is not warranted.
...
About access to cyclo, yes you are absolutely correct about the second part of your post:
New folks looking for cyclo, folks that did not stock up while the sale was on, and folks that did not sign up for a recurring shipment will not have a source of cycloastragenol until July.

I am sure folks that did stock up, and those on recurring... are really very happy right now, because they got the sale price. Since you probably have not been around much, I will also let you know that recurring folks actually get the new product at the old sale price as well (we have done this with other products, and we will do this with this one as well).

Everybody else, simply has to wait until sometime in July.

Cheers
A

Whell. I didn't feel bad before, but I sure do now. Looks kindof like the lottery, except with a monopolistic feel to it.

I had some more questions for you "A", but now I don't like the sound of this...

[chrono]

Whell. I didn't feel bad before, but I sure do now. Looks kindof like the lottery, except with a monopolistic feel to it.

I don't think it's quite fair to blame Anthony for the fact that no one else is selling this. And I don't know how this compares to a "lottery" either...his business offers a subscription service which offers incentives and discounts. People who bought things during a sale got the sale price...simple as that.

From what I understand, the decision to re-formulate was based partly on the fact that selling the pure molecule will be in violation of the patent, but as a component in a composition (esp. with other molecules from astragalus?) it will not.

I agree that it would be nice to have another source for pure cycloastragenol, for folks who would prefer that option. Like I said, I'm sure it's possible; I'm not that motivated to start sending e-mails out, because I have nowhere near that amount of cash to burn on this right now, and Anthony's new formulation might turn out to be a better option anyway.

[Suzudo]

Anthony_Loera:
*********
Hi Suzudo,

any new telomerase product will contain:
1- Items that activate telomerase
2- Items that increase absorption
3- And the formulation will not contain telomerase inhibitors

Pretty simple.
If we find a telomerase activator as good as Cycloastragenol or better than Cycloastragenol, it will end up in the formulation.
**********

Thank you.

In another post had suggested that melatonin should encourage the formation of the pigeon pineal: ephitelion

With the life of mice melatonin has been lengthened by 10%

That the pigeon pineal melatonin is formed from serotonin. That this process is well known

That serotonin helps concentration and physical and mental activity

But that would deliver directly to a hallucinogen seronotin. LSD, mescaline and psicocybina have a similar chemical structure to serotonin.

Perhaps because to have more serotonin and there are no other sensory information the brain gets the information itself. of storage. Creating hallucinations

This fits with hallucinations due to lack of sleep

That rosavin root of Rhodiola Rosea plant makes the brain more serotonin form but does not force

Thus have more melatonin in the pineal pigeon rather than throughout the body and therefore more epithelion

In Rhodiola rosea root has managed to extend the life of flies by 10%

The same value as what has been the supply of melatonin

But I've seen that purslane has significant amounts of tryptophan

Tryptophan is a precursor of serotonin. And milk contains tryptophan, so it helps both the activity (more serotonin) and sleep (more melatonin in the pigeon pineal)

That is:


Rosavin + Cycloastragenol + tryptophan + melatonin


If the chitosan helps to repair tissues as stated in that study (destiferenciación total cellular differentiation with plenty of new copies to repair a serious injury) may have a complicated relationship with telomerase.



Rosavin + Cycloastragenol + tryptophan + melatonin + chitosan



Little is known interactions between these compounds together?


It seems that the purslane tocopherols act on the P53 gene and that can be good.

Anticancer and antioxidant protection in addition to telomerase activity (tocopherols, S.O.D. of roiboos, etc)?



I do not know


Much milk is drunk by many people

The purslane is eaten all over the globe since prehistoric times. In Europe we eat. In my area is eaten in salads and I had my hands on lots of pounds but I have no fondness for eating. I think I will change my taste although it is somewhat acid.

I do not think the legend of King Tartessian Arcantonio corresponds to one person as was believed in antiquity, but several kings and historians say. I say.



Shilima khemen

[Suzudo]

Hello

Also I have my doubts by various small variations in the structure of cycloastragenol



http://www.ncbi.nlm....mp;ordinalpos=1

Shilima khemen

Edited by Suzudo, 13 June 2010 - 07:20 PM.

[Suzudo]

I guess that was mentioned more than once but:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....?tool=pmcentrez


Shilima khemen

[Ironman-Adam]

Rosavin + Cycloastragenol + tryptophan + melatonin + chitosan

Shilima khemen

Melatonin has thus far been shown to act as a telomerase inhibitor.

[Suzudo]

Rosavin + Cycloastragenol + tryptophan + melatonin + chitosan

Shilima khemen

Melatonin has thus far been shown to act as a telomerase inhibitor.

I repeat a previous message:

http://www3.intersci...842375/abstract

*******************
Telomerase activity was significantly reduced in aged rats compared to young animals. Melatonin significantly *increased* the telomerase activity of both young and aged rats. The MDA levels of gastric mucosa in the aged rats were significantly higher than those of the younger rats.
*******************

http://www.citeulike...article/6370223


******************
Melatonin *inhibits* telomerase activity in the MCF-7 *tumor cell line*
******************


Shilima khemen

[bsm]

The purslane is eaten all over the globe since prehistoric times. In Europe we eat. In my area is eaten in salads and I had my hands on lots of pounds but I have no fondness for eating. I think I will change my taste although it is somewhat acid.

Shilima khemen

You can try purslane capsules or aqueous extracts instead. I use both from here. http://www.naturalplantation.com/

I prefer the aqueous extract because the two studies that maintained telomere length in mice and rabbits used aqueous extracts.

[Ironman-Adam]

Rosavin + Cycloastragenol + tryptophan + melatonin + chitosan

Shilima khemen

Melatonin has thus far been shown to act as a telomerase inhibitor.

I repeat a previous message:

http://www3.intersci...842375/abstract

*******************
Telomerase activity was significantly reduced in aged rats compared to young animals. Melatonin significantly *increased* the telomerase activity of both young and aged rats. The MDA levels of gastric mucosa in the aged rats were significantly higher than those of the younger rats.
*******************

http://www.citeulike...article/6370223


******************
Melatonin *inhibits* telomerase activity in the MCF-7 *tumor cell line*
******************


Shilima khemen

Thanks for the clarification - so an off the cuff interpretation might be that melatonin is inhibitory in vitro or in tumor cells, whilst it has the opposite beneficial effect on telomerase in vivo healthy cells...

[rooter]

Not to be impertinent or anything (yeah sure), but can we get back to some fundamental questions?

It seems we are pretty sure that the main company investigating the activation of telemerase is not using astragalus or astragaloside IV? And that the consensus is they have moved on to using cycloastragenol (more effective?), is that right? I find that the minimum purchase of cyclo from China is 5.5kg, and it's probably expennnnsive.

Is there no other research going on for the activation of telemerase, and are there no alternative compounds? No other option we have?

I don't know about you, but I don't put much stock in the research of this independent Dr. V who is not associated with the main company doing research. If our only option is buying this new compound coming out in July, which is a mixture of things, I'd rather wait for pure cyclo, or determine some other uncut compound which shows promise.

Any thoughts?

Edited by rooter, 16 June 2010 - 03:22 PM.

[Ironman-Adam]

Not to be impertinent or anything (yeah sure), but can we get back to some fundamental questions?

It seems we are pretty sure that the main company investigating the activation of telemerase is not using astragalus or astragaloside IV? And that the consensus is they have moved on to using cycloastragenol (more effective?), is that right? I find that the minimum purchase of cyclo from China is 5.5kg, and it's probably expennnnsive.

Is there no other research going on for the activation of telemerase, and are there no alternative compounds? No other option we have?

I don't know about you, but I don't put much stock in the research of this independent Dr. V who is not associated with the main company doing research. If our only option is buying this new compound coming out in July, which is a mixture of things, I'd rather wait for pure cyclo, or determine some other uncut compound which shows promise.

Any thoughts?

If by "fundamental questions" you mean specific aspects which seem to concern you as an individual, it would appear you've succeeded.

Information relating to your queries can pretty much be found in the body of this thread, amongst others - although I fear you're in for disappointment if you expect any definitive answers, because few yet exist.

Interesting attitude, spurning the research of an independant scientist in favour the secrecy and huge vested financial interests of TA Sciences. Who, incidentally, I'm sure will be happy to accept your $25,000 since you're so sceptical of the cutting edge, safe, and yet affordable products developed by Revgenetics. A little investigation will inform you that certain other compounds actually seem to enhance the absorbtion, availability, and/or potential effects of Cycloastragenol - so their inclusion is likely beneficial, rather than simply filler as you imply.

If you look hard enough you'll even find details of the relative efficacy of the various telomerase activating extracts so far tested - so if you don't like what's on offer, go take your choice!

Cheers!

Edited by Ironman-Adam, 16 June 2010 - 06:58 PM.