2189 replies to this topic

[MikeO]

Remember, folks, we're talking about Anthony's proprietary product. He owns it. He has the right to decide how much info to reveal or keep private.

And he's explicitly revealed as much as he feels comfortable saying, given whatever constraints -- business, legal, regulatory, etc. -- he's operating under.

So I think it's time to quit bugging the guy.


I do have a question about Cycloastragenol that a quick search of the forums didn't show an answer for:

When taking Cycloastragenol, especially when taking it more than once a day, is it best taken on an empty stomach, or can it be taken with meals?

[mikeinnaples]

Remember, folks, we're talking about Anthony's proprietary product. He owns it. He has the right to decide how much info to reveal or keep private.

And he's explicitly revealed as much as he feels comfortable saying, given whatever constraints -- business, legal, regulatory, etc. -- he's operating under.

I don't think that is being questioned at all or is even up for debate. It's his product and he can do whatever he wishes with it within confines of the law.

[Anthony_Loera]

The point of labeling a special active:
By placing the active ingredient on the label, the company assures the active ingredient is in the product. It serves as a measure of trust for the customer, and allows the customer to have recourse with the FDA if he believes the ingredient is not found in the product, and is adulterated or mislabeled. Since we place the active ingredients on the label, we are not only assuring our customers that we use them in the product, but that the FDA can hang us if they are not found in the product.

Where is the quantity included in this? That, I believe, is the concern and the 'point'.

Seems like may be better to provide 'policy statements' for this product to help keep this thread on track. The differing arguments about FDA policy, supplement quality, and label law (as well as consumer recourse) are threatening to side track this thread.

Current statements regarding our new telomerase support product:

I mentioned that we were providing a proprietary complex in an early post, so I cannot go into further detail.
I did mentioned the ingredients themselves, and posted the "Supplement Fact" section for you to compare with others.
I have provided PubMed studies done by independent universities regarding the ingredients we chose.
I will not provide details regarding our findings regarding the new proprietary complex at this time.
I will ask folks that take other telomerase activators to compare our product label to others.

As mentioned before, I have already provided and assured a minimum amount of Cycloastragenol in each bottle, in an earlier post. I will repeat it here again. Each bottle has a minimum of 150mg or more of Cycloastragenol. I will consider placing this minimum statement on the label in the future.

This is all the information I can provide at this time.


Sorry MikeO,
your question came in a bit late. But there are no clinical studies showing our new product is absorbed better or worse with a meal. However on our label, we suggest taking a capsule with every meal.

I hope this settles things, and helps keep this thread on the right track.

Cheers!
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 August 2010 - 08:55 PM.

[smithx]

I already stated the minimums that our bottled product carries here.

According to you, if the minimums are not specified on the label, what you said only applies to the current batch, and there's no assurance you won't reduce the quantity of any particular component.

Having a "proprietary formula" is often a clever way of disguising the fact that you don't actually offer what you want people to think you are offering. Otherwise, you could have some components of your formula which are not disclosed, but still disclose the ones people care about on the label, such as the quantity of cycloastrogenol.

[Anthony_Loera]

Re-read my last post.

[mrak1979]

yes, a minimums statement on your labels would be appreciated by your loyal customers. Thanks Anthony

[Anthony_Loera]

No problem, mrak1979.

I can't do it for you this first batch, but will have it up for you for the next to assure you a minimum amount.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 August 2010 - 11:25 PM.

[stephen_b]

Having a "proprietary formula" is often a clever way of disguising the fact that you don't actually offer what you want people to think you are offering. Otherwise, you could have some components of your formula which are not disclosed, but still disclose the ones people care about on the label, such as the quantity of cycloastrogenol.

Each bottle has a minimum of 150mg or more of Cycloastragenol. I will consider placing this minimum statement on the label in the future.

smithx, what part of that is not clear? I can understand Anthony's frustration. I'm getting frustrated just reading the thread.

[smithx]

smithx, what part of that is not clear?

What's unclear is that:

- Nowhere was the quantity of cycloastrogenol stated, until I pressed him to state it in this thread.

- He the said that each bottle contained at least 150mg of the compound, while going on about how labels without definitive information are misleading and unreliable. Ignoring the fact that his label does not contain any definitive information.

- I pressed him to state the quantity per capsule in an unabiguous way. If a bottle of 60 contains over 150mg, it shoudn't be that difficult to clearly state that each capsule contains at least 2.5mg, however he vociferously refused to make that statement. Why? That seems rather evasive for no reason unless he didn't want to commit unambiguously to a minimum quantity of the compound per capsule.

- He most recently finally seems to have committed to stating that quantity on the labels of the next production run, which is good news because if you've been paying attention, without a stated quantity on the label he is legally not obligated to maintain any particular quantity from batch to batch.

I hope he does in fact include this information on his label, because without it, reasonable people should not assume there continues to be any particular quantity of any particular compound in his product.

Finally, I wonder why it is reasonable to increase the price of a product by such a huge amount while not offering more of the desired active ingredient? To me it seems as if doubling the quantity of capsules without stating the amounts included is a way of making it seem that the price didn't just jump up for basically the same quantity of active ingredient.

None of this playing around inspires confidence. If you are going to offer a product that people are buying because of one of the ingredients, and won't state how much of the ingredient is actually in the product, and get defensive and nasty when someone presses you to actually state that quantity, something's wrong.

One could respond that the reason he went from 30 to 60 capsules was to give a better dosage over time, and that the other ingredients are costly and justify the price. But I don't think those arguments stand under logical and careful scrutiny. Cycloastrogenol is the ingredient we have the most evidence of, and all the rest of it seems to be a calculated way of hiding how much of that ingredient is actually being offered and at what price per mg.

I hope that we see another supplier offer this compound soon, and I hope it's a supplier who's honest and open about what they are actually offering.

Edited by smithx, 20 August 2010 - 05:43 AM.

[mikeinnaples]

I hope that we see another supplier offer this compound soon, and I hope it's a supplier who's honest and open about what they are actually offering.

I understand your problem with the current label completely... BUT Anthony has been open and honest about his products consistently from the beginning and is one of the few people to be so. I suspect on his second round, you will see minimums on his label.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 20 August 2010 - 11:48 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Remember, folks, we're talking about Anthony's proprietary product. <snip>

And he's explicitly revealed as much as he feels comfortable saying, given whatever constraints -- business, legal, regulatory, etc. -- he's operating under.

Thanks MikeO,

You post is more relevant than you know.
We deal not just with the FDA, but the FTC and other non-government entities we respect. We also but also observe court rulings on various topics and position ourselves appropriately to protect our company and our products.

I am also happy to say that SmithX is right on the following items:

1- Yes Smithx is right, we stopped our sales price on our old 2nd generation product.
We had a fire sale to get rid of current 2nd generation product inventory, we changed our formulation and are now providing a better product with more than one ingredient (that supports telomerase and absorption), and we need to observe BBB rules for BBB Accreditation. Better Business Bureau Accreditation guidelines state you cannot have a sale go on forever and are required to state limits:

2- Yes Smithx is right, If a manufacturer doesn't state cyloastragenol or the amount of cycloastragenol in the label, then the product doesn't have to have it in any meaningful amounts. We state 150mg or more on our website, but it is not stated on the label. That will change.

3- Yes Smithx is right, we are the only company that offers cycloastragenol to the public.


A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 20 August 2010 - 12:55 PM.

[mrkosh1]

I'm very curious if this new supplement (with three telomerase inducers) will be able to produce enough telomerase to actually reverse telomere shortening in a human being. It will be interesting to find out if the three supplements have an effect that is not only additive but synergistic. I wonder where it will rank on Sierra Sciences scale of telomerase induction. For example, they have a substance that has 12% of their goal. Their goal is that amount of telomere production in Hela cells. Will this new supplement be 2%, 4%, or 50%?

I wonder if the is an affordable way of testing to see how much teomerase production in vitro this new supplement would produce in a cell.

[smithx]

we stopped our sales price on our old 2nd generation product.
We had a fire sale to get rid of current 2nd generation product inventory, we changed our formulation and are now providing a better product with more than one ingredient (that supports telomerase and absorption), and we need to observe BBB rules for BBB Accreditation. Better Business Bureau Accreditation guidelines state you cannot have a sale go on forever and are required to state limits:

This kind of specious reasoning is why I find it difficult to trust Anthony.

We're talking about a new product. There is nothing which states that it can't be sold at at whatever price he wants to sell it at.

Additionally, there is nothing which states that he can't lower the price of products or raise them to whatever he wants.

Nothing says that he has to have a "sale" for a limited amount of time. He could if he wanted, make the price whatever he wanted to make it without a "sale".

Citing BBB rules (which are not laws but are the rules of a private organization) as a reason to price a new product higher than an old one it replaces is just an attempt to claim that it's not his decision to set the price this high.

In fact, it is his decision, and the decision may be based on cost of materials, what he thinks the market will bear, or some other consideration, but this pricing is certainly not dictated by the BBB or any other organization.

Edited by smithx, 21 August 2010 - 08:21 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

In fact, it is his decision, and the decision may be based on cost of materials, what he thinks the market will bear, or some other consideration

You are correct again SmithX. Here is the quote again...and these items you mentioned are in bold, and I previously mentioned we abide by non-gov entities we respect as well:

1- Yes Smithx is right, we stopped our sales price on our old 2nd generation product. We had a fire sale to get rid of current 2nd generation product inventory, we changed our formulation and are now providing a better product with more than one ingredient (that supports telomerase and absorption), and we need to observe BBB rules for BBB Accreditation. Better Business Bureau Accreditation guidelines state you cannot have a sale go on forever and are required to state limits:

===================================================================================================
On a side note:
Just to let folks and the average signed in lurker know... you do have the option to vote a post down now. As an example, I just voted smithx's last post down by clicking the nifty 'minus' button at the bottom right hand side of his post, as I felt it to be a repetitive post.

See the screen-shot below. This tool is there so that you can vote down a post... only one vote per signed in lurker or member. Maybe we should vote down posts that should not be answered, or stopped altogether... and vote up posts that have relevant information to the thread, or folks want more info on. Of course this is just my humble suggestion to keep things on track.

I think there is a setting somewhere where you can set a threshold and block posts that many people consider irrelevant. If anyone finds it, please let me know!

Cheers
A

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by Anthony_Loera, 21 August 2010 - 02:03 PM.

[smithx]

In fact, it is his decision, and the decision may be based on cost of materials, what he thinks the market will bear, or some other consideration

You are correct again SmithX.

The issue is that your response about the BBB was in response to my previous post where I said:

Finally, I wonder why it is reasonable to increase the price of a product by such a huge amount while not offering more of the desired active ingredient?

I was obviously referring to the price increase from your 2nd generation to your 3rd generation product. Your response was:

1- Yes Smithx is right, we stopped our sales price on our old 2nd generation product.
We had a fire sale to get rid of current 2nd generation product inventory, we changed our formulation and are now providing a better product with more than one ingredient (that supports telomerase and absorption), and we need to observe BBB rules for BBB Accreditation. Better Business Bureau Accreditation guidelines state you cannot have a sale go on forever and are required to state limits:

This did not address the issue I raised, which was: Why is it reasonable to have such a huge price increase without increasing the quantity of the desired compound?

Instead, you talk about BBB rules, and when I point out that BBB rules have nothing to do with your huge price increase, you suggest downvoting my posts.

Is anyone paying attention to this behavior? I posted here initially only to find out how many mg of cyclostrogenol were in this product. I expected a simple reply stating the quantity. These abusive responses and arguments were completely unexpected and very worrisome.

[Anthony_Loera]

smithx,

this has been answered multiple times. Move on, or become the thread troll.

The choice is yours, either way... I will be ignoring you unless you bring relevanet information to the thread.

Cheers!
A

[unglued]

Anthony, I was a little surprised to hear that your new product still contains cycloastragenol in any amount, after what you told us in December. I suppose you must have gotten new legal information or advice that changed your mind, but if you mentioned your change in plans here, I missed it.

Folks…

Just an FYI:
A Notice of Allowance has been granted for Geron's patent, here in the USA.

Since I just found out about this today and the patent has yet to be issued, I need to reassess Astral Fruit for my customers because of this news, as I never thought a product of nature would be able to be patented.

...

As soon as Geron has an actual patent issued, we will stop selling Cycloastragenol to acknowledge the patent provided to Geron. We will then consider the future of Astral Fruit as a licensed product or as a product that uses different ingredients, that are still available.

For now… we will have a fire sale until we run out of product.

[Suzudo]

Hi Suzudo,

Maria Blasco's work in the past has been pretty cutting edge, and solid.
She is personally one of my top 10 scientist all-stars regarding telomere work.

There are a lot of things in her findings that are interesting, however downregulation of hnRNP M and D seem to be most interesting as she states that it "strongly increased the mobilization of TERRA to telomeres".
*********
Yes, very interesting

Along with this paragraph
-------
Next, we addressed whether knockdown of the TERRA-interacting RBPs identified here resulted in altered telomere length. As shown in Figure 6a and b, knockdown of the different TERRA-interacting RBPs resulted in a significant increase in the average telomere length in the case of hnRNP A1, F, and M knockdowns. Furthermore, short telomeres were significantly decreased on downregulation of most TERRA-bound RBPs, except for HuR and hnRNP A2B1 (differences on hnRNP A2B1 knockdown did not reach significance) (Fig. 6a and c). These effects on telomere length were dependent on the telomerase status, as downregulation of TERRA-bound RBPs in first generation telomerase-deficient G1 Terc−/− MEFs31 did not result in an increase in the average telomere length on hnRNP A1, F and M knockdowns and did not decrease the presence of short telomeres, as observed on similar knockdowns in wild-type littermates (Fig. 6).
Figure 6: TERRA-bound RBPs modify telomere length.
TERRA-bound RBPs modify telomere length.
--------
Repeat the downregulation of "hnRNP M"

In addition to requiring the presence of telomerase


http://ctd.mdibl.org...b=GENE&acc=4670


That, of course:

http://ctd.mdibl.org...b=GENE&acc=4670

http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=D004317

http://www.ncbi.nlm....bmed?term=casp3

Curious is not it?



As more curious:

http://www.ars-grin....armacy2.pl?1003

http://www.ars-grin.....pl?ELLAGICACID

http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=D004610

¿casp3?

http://www.ars-grin....?CHEBULAGICACID
http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=C076178


http://ctd.mdibl.org...b=GENE&acc=3178
http://ctd.mdibl.org...b=GENE&acc=3185

http://ctd.mdibl.org...b=GENE&acc=9987 ??


http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=D011794
*********
In my opinion, I don't think 'Gerom' is at this level of investigation, however her paper may produce new avenues of investigation for us and others.

A

[Suzudo]

umm
umm


What would happen if a virus or bacteria that have no antibodies organism
not ever being in contact he added as an extra antigen hnRNP crucial to the objective which the organism
create antibodies as having an autoimmune disease that forced a mild elongation of telomeres every time you activate the telomerase?

and antigen telomerase inhibitors?


There SOD inhibitors -super oxide dismutase-?

And antibodies against the stop sign in the differentiation of tissues to repair damage when the scar tissue is the type to end the differentiation and achieve with large numbers of units of telomeres?

Shilima khemen

[Suzudo]

Have you seen this detail on the links that seem interesting? :


Decreased Dietary Fats results in expression of mRNA HNRNPM


Among the telomerase activity would be the ephitelion and therefore the same precursors (tryptophan-portulaca oleacea, milk-, serotonin or serotonin contributors -Rhodiola rosea root-, and melatonin, although the better side and at night,) the cycloastragenol and molecules close by hydrolysis (astragalosides, gingenoids, etc) a dyskerin sequence (55 amino acid sequence seems GSE 5.22), of which the patented some mechanisms to activate telomerase


Are any of the best known of Géromé not known to have?

"Viron"?


"Terminalia chebula" protects "only" oxidation and peroxidation of the cell right?

not activate telomerase?


I remember because I see that section of dyskerin regulates telomerase in vivo but also GAR1 How?

I see GAR1 is also identified as NOLA1, AA409823, AL326794, C430047J18Rik

And PA164720194


(If not a mistake to copy)

Anyone know of any reference to any article of this comes from the GAR1 with telomerase?


"Terminalia chebula" protects "only" oxidation and peroxidation of the cell. Right?

not activate telomerase?

Portulaca oelacea provides tryptophan, activates the p53 gene active anti-tumor and the creation of SOD , Antioxidant and antiperoxidant. Right?

Chitosan increases the absorption but repair damage nerve cells and provides anti-oxidant protection and antiperoxidant strong. Right?

Just Piperine nigra L provides increased absorption?

Add the product a bit of rhodiola rosea root, can not increase the total quantity of telomerase?

And melatoina take some night?


blueberries appear to activate the production of new neurons (which only last two weeks if not used) by any of its components. Anything?


Shilima khemen

[Suzudo]

Have you seen this detail on the links that seem interesting? :


Decreased Dietary Fats results in expression of mRNA HNRNPM


[...]

Shilima khemen

UFFF


"Dietary Fats results in decreased expression of HNRNPM mRNA"



forgiveness, pardon



Shilima khemen

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony, I was a little surprised to hear that your new product still contains cycloastragenol in any amount, after what you told us in December. I suppose you must have gotten new legal information or advice that changed your mind, but if you mentioned your change in plans here, I missed it.

Folks…

Just an FYI:
A Notice of Allowance has been granted for Geron's patent, here in the USA.

Since I just found out about this today and the patent has yet to be issued, I need to reassess Astral Fruit for my customers because of this news, as I never thought a product of nature would be able to be patented.

...

As soon as Geron has an actual patent issued, we will stop selling Cycloastragenol to acknowledge the patent provided to Geron. We will then consider the future of Astral Fruit as a licensed product or as a product that uses different ingredients, that are still available.

For now… we will have a fire sale until we run out of product.

Hi Unglued,

Yes, we took steps to assure we could provide the new product without issues.
Yes the new product continues to have Astragalus with a measurable amount of cyloastragenol.

We are the only folks to provide it.

Cheers
A

[medievil]

Is this stuff an antioxidant? Because of my concerns of antioxidants inhibiting the health benefits of exercise i'm planning to cycle my supplements leaving time where i'm just gonna excercise without any antioxidants, if Astragalus doesnt act as an antioxidant i can use it on my "off" cycle.

I apologize if this was discussed before, unlike vbulletin it doesnt seem possible to search the threads itself here.

[bobman]

Remember, folks, we're talking about Anthony's proprietary product. <snip>

And he's explicitly revealed as much as he feels comfortable saying, given whatever constraints -- business, legal, regulatory, etc. -- he's operating under.

Thanks MikeO,

You post is more relevant than you know.
We deal not just with the FDA, but the FTC and other non-government entities we respect. We also but also observe court rulings on various topics and position ourselves appropriately to protect our company and our products.

I am also happy to say that SmithX is right on the following items:

1- Yes Smithx is right, we stopped our sales price on our old 2nd generation product.
We had a fire sale to get rid of current 2nd generation product inventory, we changed our formulation and are now providing a better product with more than one ingredient (that supports telomerase and absorption), and we need to observe BBB rules for BBB Accreditation. Better Business Bureau Accreditation guidelines state you cannot have a sale go on forever and are required to state limits:

2- Yes Smithx is right, If a manufacturer doesn't state cyloastragenol or the amount of cycloastragenol in the label, then the product doesn't have to have it in any meaningful amounts. We state 150mg or more on our website, but it is not stated on the label. That will change.

3- Yes Smithx is right, we are the only company that offers cycloastragenol to the public.


A

That's not true, you aren't pulling the active out of thin air. Every astragalus supplier provides it, and suggesting that the only way you could get it is from your product is completely disengenuous. Let's not kid ourselves, you aren't synthesizing anything, you're pulling it off the rack and making a mix. It may be a good product but it is not unique in except in the final mixture and label instructions, a convenience that some may pay for.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Bobmann,

I don't understand your post.

It sounds like you are saying all astragalus suppliers provide cycloastragenol... if that is the case, can you provide any lab test that shows how much cycloastrgenol is available in regular astragalus or maybe a lab test regarding products that are currently in stores? How much is assumed to be in regular astragalus, do you know this at all?

I bet it would sure help folks on this thread out to compare what is out there, and avoid these kinds of arguments. Even trace amounts of cycloastragenol in a lab test would also help folks understand how much they would need to take daily.

At this point in time, I do believe we are the only company that guarantees cycloastragenol in our product to the public, is there anyone else?

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 31 August 2010 - 10:50 AM.

[GreenPower]

Health Check 3 - Tuesday, ten days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol, flow-FISH measurement of Teleomere lengths
I have data from two earlier tests as well. I've presented them earlier in this mail thread. In order to enhance readability I'll include the results again, including parts of my old comments.
[...]

You told you have used Chitosan with Cycloastragenol. Did you use chitosan also with Astragaloside IV? I wonder if the chitosan did made a positive difference with Cyclo?

During the test period I used Astragaloside IV mixed with an additional amount of 250 mg Astragalus root extract (apparently non-standardized) and no chitosan.

Because I haven't tried Cycloastragenol without chitosan, I wouldn't now if it made a difference or not.

[GreenPower]

Thanks for the report, GP. Your perseverance is much appreciated. One question: have you noticed any continued effect on hair since your earlier reports?

Sorry if you mentioned this earlier, but it isn't in my notes. Can you give us an idea how much testing cost you? I'm hoping to start some king of astragalus cycle in the next 6 months. Any info we can bring up to make testing easier would encourage more of us to get it done before we start.

I still say it might be problematic to be basing anything on these commercial telomere tests. I remember some discussion back when anthony first got his results, that the accuracy was basically like a decade's worth of base pairs. And I don't recall hearing anything solid about the precision (i.e. reproducibility) of these tests. I think a change in their own standard deviation calculations might mean that they don't quite know how well this test works themselves.

Also, I'm wondering about your decision to continue with an astragalus extract, rather than cyclo, in light of your feelings about these results. Though I suppose 99mg/day was a pretty high dose. This paper seems pretty representative of polysaccharide/A4 content. Total saccharides was 23%, A4 was about .14%. So 70% is a 3x concentration, making the A4 composition of the extract portion .42%. (.42% x 225mg) + (.14% x 250mg) = 1.295mg A4? These numbers are pretty loose; if their extraction process is more selective for certain types of polysaccharides (soluble), the total might be bumped up to 1.9mg/dose. How many of these are you going to be taking?

Sorry about the late answer. I've now started on my second three month period on "Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg) and Gingkbo Biloba". I'm taking one of each in the morning and one of each in the afternoon/evening.

The "fine down", I think the technical term is "vellus hair", may have grown another 1-2 mm, but it's still white.

Regarding costs
If the prices are the same as four months ago, the cost for the "basic procedure" is US$400 - but this is only a very general test which shows the telomore lengths of the lymphocytes and the granulocytes.
The "detailed procedure" is US$800 and also includes Naíve T, Memory T, B cells and NK cells.
Because the sample of the investigated population is so utterly small (that is, I've only got myself to investigate) and I have enough money - I've opted for doing the "detailed procedure + Standard Deviation". To my understanding they will then do additional measurements (called events), which I hope will give more reliable results. You have to ask extra for this, because it's not an available option in their order form, and the price is US$1200. Luckily for me, American dollars aren't that expensive from a European perspective :-)

When doing my second test, they said that "Events for grans must be>500, for B cells & NK cells must be >50 and all other populations must be >1000. In your latest analysis, lymphs (4035 events), grans (932 events), naïve cells (2145 events), memory cells (1252 events), B cells (204events) & NK cells (77 events)".

Their comment about the standard deviation was that "we find all combinations of occurrences in our clinical and non-clinical clients". I guess a standard deviation of zero on all types of cells is very unlikely, but not completely impossible.

My feelings about the results from AIV can best be described as "mixed". The results from Cycloastragenol generated some more positive feelings, though. The reason I went back to the "Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg)" is that the risk of taking it, judging from my first telomere measurement, would appear to be quite low - and I deemed the chance of it having some potential as quite good. The next test results might be a bit inconclusive though, because I've also started doing 20 minute sessions of Transcendental Meditation around lunch time on working days, have started to have vacation one day each week (I have a lot of remaining days of vacation), and is no no longer allowed to work overtime. After getting dispensation for more overtime two times this year, I was very close to the maximum overtime limit allowed by law - whereafter my employer would have had to pay a fine.

[GreenPower]

Health Check 3 - Tuesday, ten days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol, flow-FISH measurement of Teleomere lengths
I have data from two earlier tests as well. I've presented them earlier in this mail thread. In order to enhance readability I'll include the results again, including parts of my old comments.
[...]

You told you have used Chitosan with Cycloastragenol. Did you use chitosan also with Astragaloside IV? I wonder if the chitosan did made a positive difference with Cyclo?

During the test period I used Astragaloside IV mixed with an additional amount of 250 mg Astragalus root extract (apparently non-standardized) and no chitosan.

Because I haven't tried Cycloastragenol without chitosan, I wouldn't now if it made a difference or not.

Correction: The first three months on AIV were without chitosan, the other three months included chitosan.

[happyhammet]

Hi Bobmann,

I don't understand your post.

It sounds like you are saying all astragalus suppliers provide cycloastragenol... if that is the case, can you provide any lab test that shows how much cycloastrgenol is available in regular astragalus or maybe a lab test regarding products that are currently in stores? How much is assumed to be in regular astragalus, do you know this at all?

I bet it would sure help folks on this thread out to compare what is out there, and avoid these kinds of arguments. Even trace amounts of cycloastragenol in a lab test would also help folks understand how much they would need to take daily.

At this point in time, I do believe we are the only company that guarantees cycloastragenol in our product to the public, is there anyone else?

A

Hi, Anthony

I'm only interested in knowing one thing; Are you still sourcing your cycloastragenol from China?

Thanks.

[Anthony_Loera]

The long of it:
Originally we contracted an american company to do this. However, after quite a bit of money, and what I personally will call 'failures' which interestingly enough Capsugel QA folks brought to our attention... we decided to drop them. We then went outside of the country to have this material extracted to our specifications. It takes many Tons of raw astragalus to begin to acquire an extraction and standardization that we are looking for. It is not cheap.

The short of it:
Unless you are the FDA, consider our sources a trade secret.
Please don't ask me where we get our material.

Since you just joined today...according to your profile, I will ask you to read this whole thread from the beginning and come up to speed on the subject. I think I might have mentioned the US company before...

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 02 September 2010 - 06:38 PM.