2189 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

Feeding A Fruitless quibble is known to shorten telomere length 10% at a time.
I called TA Sciences yesterday for TA-65 aka Patton Protocol version 1. I'm waiting for a call from a doctor today, he's gonna determine the right dose for me.

I'll report further as time permits.

Here is a TA-65 study published 10 days ago. Efficacy and safety pretty much confirmed.
http://www.lieberton...9/rej.2010.1085

Thank you for the link. The results are promising, but there s a lot more work to be done for a definitive result. I am hopeful.

[Anthony_Loera]

Woops.. goofed, but it still...

Sounds and looks familiar.
Calvin did the initial telomerase work for Geron's A4 and Cycloastragenol, no wonder the charts are so similar.

Starting doses of 5–10mg/day were considered safe on the basis of historical usage of extracts. Some subjects increased their dosage after several months on the product to 25–50mg/day. Cumulative dose consumed during the year was recorded for each subject and used for preliminary dose–response analysis.

That last part still sounds like Astragaloside IV, based on historical usage of Astragalus 'prescribed' in large doses by asian herbalists or docs.

TA65 is licensed by Geron, the actual license covers the ingredients as shown in Geron's patent, nothing else (so no new molecule as suggested by others here):
http://v3.espacenet....034237&KC=&FT=E

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 22 September 2010 - 02:17 PM.

[stephen_b]

Here is a TA-65 study published 10 days ago. Efficacy and safety pretty much confirmed.
http://www.lieberton...9/rej.2010.1085

Thanks for the link. I found this paragraph in the discussion interesting:

Paradoxically,although&40% of subjects showed an increase in mean telomere length overtime, on average across all subjects there was a nonsignificant decline in mean telomere length. However, we speculate this effect is explained by cell dynamics and the fact that telomerase preferentially lengths the shortest telomeres.62–64 Rescue and selective expansion of near-senescent cells with short telomeres could lead to a reduction in the population mean telomere length despite some lengthening of telomeres in all cells.

[stephen_b]

Reading further, I see they tried giving old mice TA-65 (Blasco et al.,submitted), but they did not say whether those mice lived longer. I guess we'll have to wait until that study is published.

[sthira]

Well, after reading all the pages of this thread, one thing remains clear to me: I will keep eating broccoli and watch yet another fractionated compound ride the dramatic wave.

[Chopperboy]

Did you measure them before and after? How large is the difference? Do you have other moles whose size hasn't changed?

How large and frequent doses do you take and for how long? Are you taking any other substances at the same time?

Have you noticed any other effects?

I didn't measure them before, but I would say they enlarged by about 50% then got much smaller than before, especially flatter - they only feel slightly raised now. Only a very old one didn't change at all.

5mg Cycloastraganol for 3.5 months, stopped in the middle for 2 weeks, and increased the dose to 10mg for 3 weeks. I take the full range of Anti-Aging but Cyclo was the only new thing I added this year.

I noticed better eyesight (sharpness mainly but also clarity & colour), improved digestion, and a strong feeling of well being.

Edited by maxwatt, 23 September 2010 - 10:59 AM.

[Chopperboy]

In case someone is interested in trying to determine what TA65 is? Dr Al Sears has it available mail order here: http://www.primalfor...65landinga.html Pls note, this is not intended to be an advert for it.

[GreenPower]

I didn't measure them before, but I would say they enlarged by about 50% then got much smaller than before, especially flatter - they only feel slightly raised now. Only a very old one didn't change at all.

5mg Cycloastraganol for 3.5 months, stopped in the middle for 2 weeks, and increased the dose to 10mg for 3 weeks. I take the full range of Anti-Aging but Cyclo was the only new thing I added this year.

I noticed better eyesight (sharpness mainly but also clarity & colour), improved digestion, and a strong feeling of well being.

I only have one mole (since birth) and unfortunately I didn't measure it either. I therefore can't say if it has changed in size or not. It would seem an easy thing to include in future tests, though.

Even if Cycloastragenol was the only new substance you have included this year, it might not be Cycloastragenol by itself which has had these effects.

• It may have interacted with any or a combination of other substances you have been taking.
• I also understand that there are tens of different types of moles, and you might have had a type which is affected by Cycloastragenol or the combination of substances you have been taking. Other types may not be affected.
• According to Wikipedia, moles also gradually disappear after middle age. Might this have had an effect on your moles?

Wikipedia also states that "People who have moles on their skin may have a lower incidence of certain age-related diseases. The number of moles a person has correlates with telomere length, which may be of significance in the ageing process.^[7] One study found that people with over 100 moles had longer telomeres than those with under 25 moles. Shorter telomeres are thought by some to be associated with a greater risk of age-related diseases". I'm not sure where this piece of information fits, but I thought I would include it in case someone else have an idea.

With regards to freckles, something should have gotten your melanocytes to increase melanin production. Usually the sun (UV-B) has this effect. I don't know what else might increase the melanin production. I would estimate that I have less freckles now than a few years ago. Freckles have however been known to fade with age.

My eyesight is still the same as the last ten years or so, but with regards to clarity & colour I have a follow-up question. Would you also say that food "tastes more" and that you have more energy and are more outgoing than before? Perhaps you feel a higher degree of concentration while performing complex abstract work? Maybe a longer attention span and a better focus?

[GreenPower]

This might be slightly off-topic, but I found this list of "sicence translations" which might come in handy when trying to read all of these scientific reports which are attached to this thread. It gives a whole new perspective on how to critically read the words behind the language...
The following list of phrases and their definitions might help you understand the mysterious language of science and medicine. These special phrases are also applicable to anyone working on a Ph.D. dissertation or academic paper anywhere!

"It has long been known" = I didn't look up the original reference.

"A definite trend is evident" = These data are practically meaningless.

"While it has not been possible to provide definite answers to the questions" = An unsuccessful experiment, but I still hope to get it published.

"Three of the samples were chosen for detailed study" = The other results didn't make any sense.

"Typical results are shown" = This is the prettiest graph.

"These results will be in a subsequent report" = I might get around to this sometime, if pushed/funded.

"In my experience" = once.

"In case after case" = twice.

"In a series of cases" = thrice.

"It is believed that" = I think.

"It is generally believed that" = A couple of others think so, too.

"Correct within an order of magnitude" = Wrong.

"According to statistical analysis" = Rumor has it.

"A statistically oriented projection of the significance of these findings" = A wild guess.

"A careful analysis of obtainable data" = Three pages of notes were obliterated when I knocked over a glass of pop.

"It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding of this phenomenon occurs" = I don't understand it.

"After additional study by my colleagues" = They don't understand it either.

"Thanks are due to Joe Blotz for assistance with the experiment and to Cindy Adams for valuable discussions" = Mr. Blotz did the work, and Ms. Adams explained to me what it meant.

"A highly significant area for exploratory study" = A totally useless topic selected by my committee.

"It is hoped that this study will stimulate further investigation in this field" = I quit.

[TAfundraiser]

I've recently spoken with Dr. Bill Andrews and his CFO Mr.Terry McAfee because I work with the company the Sierra Sciences is in partnership with. We are an 8 y.o. private company, based in the U.S., with approx $350M annual sales and over one million monthly users of our products and systems. We've ranked in Inc. Magazine's 5000 fastest growing U.S. companies for 4 years running. The nature of the deal is that Sierra Sciences will screen for potential telomerase activators, which our company will create as nutraceutical products for the anti-aging market. This does not include funding the research...

I am a Ph.D., former cancer researcher and consultant to the biotech/pharma industry. I originally met Dr. Andrews at the A4M conference about 3 years ago and have been following TA Sciences and Sierra ever since. I'm excited that they are working with our company and am also excited to see this project to fruition. What Sierra Sciences needs is funding to get this project done quickly (by spring of 2011). I'm currently working with Sierra to acquire venture capital, private investor funding and angel investor funding. The FTC requires that all investors be qualified.

So if you know of someone who'd be interested in an investment opportunity and you are a qualified investor (or you know one), please contact me. If you'd like to become an investor in our company, you can contact me about that as well.

Regards....TAFundraiser

[niner]

Wikipedia also states that "People who have moles on their skin may have a lower incidence of certain age-related diseases. The number of moles a person has correlates with telomere length, which may be of significance in the ageing process.^[7] One study found that people with over 100 moles had longer telomeres than those with under 25 moles. Shorter telomeres are thought by some to be associated with a greater risk of age-related diseases".

This is interesting; I'd never heard that before. Previously I considered moles (of which I have a number) to be strictly a negative. Here's the paper.

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2007 Jul;16(7):1499-502. Free Text
Nevus size and number are associated with telomere length and represent potential markers of a decreased senescence in vivo.

Bataille V, Kato BS, Falchi M, Gardner J, Kimura M, Lens M, Perks U, Valdes AM, Bennett DC, Aviv A, Spector TD.

Twin Research and Genetic Epidemiology Unit, King's College London, St. Thomas Hospital Campus, London SE1 7EH, United Kingdom. bataille@doctors.org.uk

Nevus counts represent one of the strongest risk factors for melanoma. They appear in childhood and adolescence and involute from middle age onwards. Recent evidence has shown that nevus cells undergo oncogene-induced senescence involving the p16/retinoblastoma pathway. However, telomere length also influences senescence in proliferative somatic cells and varies between individuals. This study explores whether telomere length measured in white cells is associated with nevus count and size in 1,897 Caucasian women ages 18 to 79 years. Total body nevus counts were positively correlated with white cell telomere length (mean, 7.09 kbp; range, 5.09-9.37) after adjustment for age (P = 0.0001). Age-adjusted telomere length was also associated with nevus count for nevi above 5 mm in diameter (P = 0.04). Subjects in the top category for nevus count had an average age-adjusted telomere length 150 bp longer than those in the lowest category. The positive correlation between white cell telomere length and nevi number and size may reflect an increased replicative potential (reduced senescence) in individuals with longer telomeres, which may not be melanocyte specific. Understanding mechanisms influencing the induction and involution of nevi will not only help in understanding the pathophysiology of melanoma but should also shed light on the complex relationship between aging and cancer.

PMID: 17627017

[DaffyDuck]

I have a feeling the driving factor may be how slowly they fade, not how many there are. The idea being that moles fade because of cell senescence. So older people who have a lot of moles have kept the ones they have acquired through the years. For others, many of them have disappeared or faded by the time they reached middle age.

Also, I think there is a lot to the idea that excess sun exposure causes most moles. So, as an example, if you acquired one mole and stayed out of the sun all of your life but the mole stayed with you into old age, you have both long telomeres and a low risk factor for melanoma.

[bsm]

This might be slightly off-topic, but I found this list of "sicence translations" which might come in handy when trying to read all of these scientific reports which are attached to this thread. It gives a whole new perspective on how to critically read the words behind the language...
The following list of phrases and their definitions might help you understand the mysterious language of science and medicine. These special phrases are also applicable to anyone working on a Ph.D. dissertation or academic paper anywhere!

"It has long been known" = I didn't look up the original reference.

"A definite trend is evident" = These data are practically meaningless.

"While it has not been possible to provide definite answers to the questions" = An unsuccessful experiment, but I still hope to get it published.

"Three of the samples were chosen for detailed study" = The other results didn't make any sense.

"Typical results are shown" = This is the prettiest graph.

"These results will be in a subsequent report" = I might get around to this sometime, if pushed/funded.

"In my experience" = once.

"In case after case" = twice.

"In a series of cases" = thrice.

"It is believed that" = I think.

"It is generally believed that" = A couple of others think so, too.

"Correct within an order of magnitude" = Wrong.

"According to statistical analysis" = Rumor has it.

"A statistically oriented projection of the significance of these findings" = A wild guess.

"A careful analysis of obtainable data" = Three pages of notes were obliterated when I knocked over a glass of pop.

"It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding of this phenomenon occurs" = I don't understand it.

"After additional study by my colleagues" = They don't understand it either.

"Thanks are due to Joe Blotz for assistance with the experiment and to Cindy Adams for valuable discussions" = Mr. Blotz did the work, and Ms. Adams explained to me what it meant.

"A highly significant area for exploratory study" = A totally useless topic selected by my committee.

"It is hoped that this study will stimulate further investigation in this field" = I quit.

lol. Great interpretations.

[Chopperboy]

My eyesight is still the same as the last ten years or so, but with regards to clarity & colour I have a follow-up question. Would you also say that food "tastes more" and that you have more energy and are more outgoing than before? Perhaps you feel a higher degree of concentration while performing complex abstract work? Maybe a longer attention span and a better focus?

I certainly feel like I have much more energy - I spend 5 hours on Saturday helping workers half my age move concrete along forms by hand till 9.00pm in the tropical heat - without feeling tired!

I do also seem to be getting lots of long term projects completed that were hanging around before. But I haven't got back to programming yet (always a good test of my concentration). I did notice an increase in sociability as you mention. What other changes have you noticed?

[GreenPower]

My eyesight is still the same as the last ten years or so, but with regards to clarity & colour I have a follow-up question. Would you also say that food "tastes more" and that you have more energy and are more outgoing than before? Perhaps you feel a higher degree of concentration while performing complex abstract work? Maybe a longer attention span and a better focus?

I certainly feel like I have much more energy - I spend 5 hours on Saturday helping workers half my age move concrete along forms by hand till 9.00pm in the tropical heat - without feeling tired!

I do also seem to be getting lots of long term projects completed that were hanging around before. But I haven't got back to programming yet (always a good test of my concentration). I did notice an increase in sociability as you mention. What other changes have you noticed?

I have experienced these side effects in one form of another with all substances based on Astragalus I've tried, including Cyclostragenol. All effects except one, that is. The "food tasting better" I've only experienced while taking SSRI's (about 10 years ago, for little more than half a year). Including Gingko Biloba have given me an additional boost with regards to focus and attention span.

Because the effects are so similar between Astragalus and SSRI's (like over 50% overlap), my main theory is that many substances based on Astragalus might have some kind of direct or indirect effect on one or several types of neurotransmitters. It might also be a change in Cortisol/DHEA-levels (which I've been seeing) which is showing up as these positive effects. If any of these two theories are correct, I would assume that people with an initial unbalance of some kind should should be the ones most probable to feel a substantial addition of energy. For example people with fatigue from working too much, burnouts, depressions, etc.

Interestingly enough, "energy" is one of the effects which is traditionally ascribed to Astragalus. Example: "The astragalus root stands out as a unique remedy in the treatment of physical exhaustion, and the Oriental medicine considers the astragalus root to be an extremely useful remedy for physical weaknesses. Chinese herbalist have constantly applied remedies made from the astragalus root for centuries-they used this remedy to treat "every sort of wasting or exhausting disease", and to this day, the Chinese medical system still makes use of this remedy" (http://www.herbs2000..._astragalus.htm).

[Decimus]

Does anyone know if TA-65 has been shown to extend the life of any organism....yeast, c elegans? If not, all this hype seems exceedingly premature.

[Gern]

Does anyone know if TA-65 has been shown to extend the life of any organism....yeast, c elegans? If not, all this hype seems exceedingly premature.

Only if your sole reason for taking something is extending life. I take a number of things, such as a high dose of Vitamin-D because it helps with mood, and a variety of other things that have demonstrated they may decrease odds of cancer or heart attack. In fact, there are quite a few suppliments sold on the basis that they improve some aspect or another of a persons life. I'd be happy if Cytoastrogalus improved my immune system function, or even improved my skin (I am prone to a particular fungal infection), I don't necessarily need it to extend life to be worth taking.

[bsm]

Does anyone know if TA-65 has been shown to extend the life of any organism....yeast, c elegans? If not, all this hype seems exceedingly premature.

This has been discussed many times in this thread but I suppose the related posts are burried between non-life extension posts.

http://www.imminst.o...651#entry422651

Edited by bsm, 29 September 2010 - 05:50 PM.

[Gern]

For those that have done it, how do you go about getting a blood test. I've looked at Repeat Diagnostics, but you need someone to order the blood test. I assume you just can't do that on your own. I can go to a local lab where I live, but I'm not sure how receptive they will be (in the past they have been OK with tests for LEF where the tubes and paperwork were all provided). Also, it looks like they will report the distribution of lengths, but it appeared that recent tests released by TA-Science had reports of the percent of cells with telomeres less then 4kbp. I suppose you have to get the TA-Science test (for a lot more money) to get that. Thanks.

[Anthony_Loera]

For those that have done it, how do you go about getting a blood test. I've looked at Repeat Diagnostics, but you need someone to order the blood test. I assume you just can't do that on your own. I can go to a local lab where I live, but I'm not sure how receptive they will be (in the past they have been OK with tests for LEF where the tubes and paperwork were all provided). Also, it looks like they will report the distribution of lengths, but it appeared that recent tests released by TA-Science had reports of the percent of cells with telomeres less then 4kbp. I suppose you have to get the TA-Science test (for a lot more money) to get that. Thanks.

Simply Use Repeat Diagnostics:
http://repeatdiagnostics.com/

No, you don't need someone to order the test. Simply get your blood drawn at quest diagnostics (if you are on the east coast) or other similar facility, then fedex your blood overnight to repeat diagnostics... and save your money.

Cheers
A

[GreenPower]

For those that have done it, how do you go about getting a blood test. I've looked at Repeat Diagnostics, but you need someone to order the blood test. I assume you just can't do that on your own. I can go to a local lab where I live, but I'm not sure how receptive they will be (in the past they have been OK with tests for LEF where the tubes and paperwork were all provided). Also, it looks like they will report the distribution of lengths, but it appeared that recent tests released by TA-Science had reports of the percent of cells with telomeres less then 4kbp. I suppose you have to get the TA-Science test (for a lot more money) to get that. Thanks.

I'm not sure how things like this works in the states, but here in Europe drawing the blood is real easy. I just ask them to fill up a couple of extra EDT-tubes when doing my "ordinary" health check and they just charge some extra money for the EDT-tubes and the external plastic containers.

The complicated part is getting the package sent to Canada through FedEx. I takes like half an hour to fill in all the papers and see too that the blood samples are packaged in the correct way. I've attached a FedEx-PDF on "Pointers on Shipping Clinical Samples, Biological Substance Category B and Environmental Test Samples". To this you need to add the forms for customs (four copies), FedEx and the Canadian lab. These forms will be provided to you by FedEx and the Canadian lab. Also make sure that FedEx haven't ran out of their "Large Clinical Pak's" before you go there to send the package...

Attached Files

•  Biological Substance FedEx.pdf   178.28KB   307 downloads

[johnross47]

Till now I've used cycloastragenol/Astral FruitC but my stocks are running out. Should I try the new formula? ???
What is the nature of the purslane component? Is it some sort of extract or is it just powdered plant material? If it's an extract what is it; what evidence is there of its efficacy in that form and in combination with cyclo? How do cycloastragenol and purslane interact/ For all the information I have they might interact negatively....does anyone know.....has any research been done? It costs a lot of my pension and I have to ask whether it is sensible.

[bsm]

What is the nature of the purslane component?

When did purslane become part of the new formula for either?

Edited by bsm, 01 October 2010 - 11:37 PM.

[johnross47]

The Astral Fruit-NF has the following ingredients:

Terminalia Chebula
Portulaca Oleracea
Astragalus Extract With Cycloastragenol

we have also added chitosan, bioperine.
This is our proprietary complex in Astral Fruit-NF for telomerase support.

60 Capsules, each capsule runs about 500mg.

Please review the following if you are not familiar with some of these:
PubMed ID: 15478203
PubMed ID: 17764668
PubMed ID: 18981163

We expect this product to perform very well compared to others telomerase activators.

[johnross47]

Portulaca oleracea is the plant know in horticulture as summer purslane. A fine example of why common names are dangerous and should not be used.Winter purslane is a form of Montia and probably the plant americans know as purslane.

[motorcitykid]

Oct 3, 2003

What Makes Us Age? Ticking of Cellular Clock Promotes Seismic Changes in Chromatin Landscape Associated With Aging

http://www.scienceda...01003205928.htm

[Gern]

Oct 3, 2003

What Makes Us Age? Ticking of Cellular Clock Promotes Seismic Changes in Chromatin Landscape Associated With Aging

http://www.scienceda...01003205928.htm

The study the article refers to appears to be available here:
http://www.nature.co.../nsmb.1897.html,
but appears to require a login to their site. I don't know if it says anything new.

[Suzudo]

Hello

I think the current wording revgenetics product is very good:

Activator of TERT. Precursor endogenous activator of TERT. P53 Activator (very soft). S.O.D. activator

Compounds to enhance absorption. One of the compounds also appears to repair damaged nerves and neurons membrana (chitosan)

I think you should have root "rhodiola rosea" to force the increased production of endogenous TERT activator (ephitelión). But hey


The main problem is controlling the elongate telomere length by activating TERT

Is not it?

That can vary between individuals and have different mechanisms. The recent article by A. Blasco and others in the journal Nature indicates that said length control mechanisms specific to lower the amount of a riboproteíns (hnRMP-A1, hnRMP hnRMP-F and-M and M is sequenced in gene banks) and increase TERRA or TelARN

I remember that I quoted one of the contributions of A. Blasco where a microRNA 290 controls the lengthening process taking into account the telARN and other so if it is destroyed that microRNAs telomeres grow excessively damaging cancer cells so dangerous

Since you lose the control system

micro-RNA-290 inhibits the p130 gene (Rbl2 retiboblastom)

Activating this gene causes excessive growth of telomeres. But not as

In Rbl2-p130 gene inhibits the enzymes Dnmt1, Dnmt3a and Dnmt3b.


Well. I thought maybe we could activate the gene Rbl2 in a controlled manner and that upon activation of the TERT he get a significant increase in telomere without achieving outgrowths, or have cancer hazard in case there dividing cells to commit suicide in this moment (you lose more telomeres that you can add a controlled action)

I do not know. But http://ctd.mdibl.org

http://ctd.mdibl.org...b=GENE&acc=5934


Interact with the gene

Doxorubicin with level 8

Is an anticancer and the description should inhibit the gene

They also interact

Tretinoin (6)
Hydrogen peroxide (4)


and other


It is curious tretinoin: Necessary for the embryonic stage is used to eliminate damage, stains, and other of skin ointments and skin rejuvenation (can eliminate soft wrinkles) without knowing the exact mechanism. But taken orally may be problematic with the usual doses.

is Retinoic acid o trans-retinoic acid

not?



In

http://ctd.mdibl.org...hem&acc=D014212

Shows several interactions with genes but does not name the p130 gene - Rbl2

In Dr. Duke can not see directly tretionin plants containing vitamin A although

"Red palm" oil ?

Much vitamin A is also bad

Rosa rubiginosa - L. Rosaceae (Rose Hip)? Could it contain?

perhaps


One idea would be to construct plasmids with PCR abyuvant genes, the gene for hnRNP-M, the myostatin gene (myostatin most part unless the food is going to muscle mass and less calories and consumed more efficiently Oxidative stres food without excessive exercise) and genes for substances that indicate the stop in the differentiation by creating a scar (this will generate good tissue and not scar tissue that builds low quality. And cicloastragenol and / or other could get it to compensate for the loss of telomeres in the millions of copies of cellular differentiation)
Plasmids inserted into the epithelial tissue with an injection of compressed air and a mild electrical stimulation to enter cells. With a sequence of nucleotides that helps epithelial cells (infected briefly) out of them emit antigens

Thus the body create antibodies against these 3 substances lowering their levels.
But perhaps the antibodies destroy the cells that were carrying not just the specific molecules

Of myostatin antibodies are already designed (myo-29)
The stop signal molecules of cell differentiation to repair injuries are not known (not liver generates the rest of the body, but in any case)

The hnRNP-M or the other 3 may be needed for other functions. Or to lower your amount of TERRA or telomeres become too telARN cell replication in cell suicide by causing cancer.

I think it should be against the 3 substances (increase telomeres, process food better and improve muscle mass and improve the repair of damaged tissues and preventing accumulation of low-quality fabrics that can be decisive in a myocardial infarction or repair of any injury or regeneration of whatever)

The fact is that I think is beyond the regeneration of nerve tissue. Chitosan seems to have restorative properties. Blueberries and gentle exercise of intellectual exercise they get together to produce new neurons in the neocortex.

If tissue regeneration could lose many telomeres (hence the beings who are capable of regenerating a leg or a tail have very long telomeres and telomerase and instead many are short-lived) but I guess then it could be controlled by consuming products like complement those of revgenetics.

I wanted to share the ideas.


Shilima khemen

[adamh]

I just got my order of astragalus root recently. I've been taking a tablespoon of the chopped root every day. It seems to make me drowsy which I like. It's nice to read about all the good health things it's supposed to do.

I see in this thread references to both astragalus root and astral fruit. I presume since these are different plants that they have different effects. I wonder why they are discussed together? I also take an extract of "astragalus" which I assume is the root. Should I be taking astral fruit extracts too?

[adamh]

I answered, I think, my own question with a google search. I didn't find it right away but it seems "astral fruit" is not a fruit as I thought but a proprietary name for an extract of astragalus. Maybe I could have found that with a careful perusal of this thread. But 48 pages, who is going to do that?

I thought maybe it was like star fruit you see in the store sometimes.