2189 replies to this topic

[Suzudo]

For those who have access:
In Spain on Channel 2 of the national public television
On October 14 documenal spend at 22:00 local time.
It is entitled "Path to immortality" (Camino a la inmortalidad)

In it, Mary A. Blasco and Manuel Serrano explain things like how they have succeeded in transgenics mice live 40% longer than normal



After that date the documentary should be accessible in:

http://www.rtve.es/b...1&hl=es&entqr=0



Shilima khemen

[omegaman]

There was a recent documentary on CBC called 'Immortal?' in which Dr. Bill Andrews of Sierra Sciences and Noel Patton of TA Sciences had a brief appearance. It discusses the discovery of telomeres and telomerase. TA-65 is also mentioned but it was stated in the documentary that there is no proof that TA-65 actually works to reverse the aging process in any human study. Bill Andrews mentions anecdotal evidence on how it's improved his eyesight and removed aged spot's from his hands. The documentary also suggests that the enzyme telomerase may cause or fuel cancer. You can watch it online on the link below:

http://www.cbc.ca/vi...e/ID=1607680712

Here is another link about the documentary:

http://www.cbc.ca/do.../2010/immortal/

Please note: This film is only available for 30 days after the last broadcast date which is 10/10/2010.

Edited by omegaman, 11 October 2010 - 10:24 PM.

[motorcitykid]

Gene identified that prevents stem cells from turning cancerous:

http://www.scienceda...01014191151.htm

[Anthony_Loera]

What does the newest version of TA-65 contain (1 capsule)?


See attached, mystery solved.


(TA-65 is a registered trademark of Telomerase Activation Sciences, Inc. We are in no way associated with this company. We simply have had it tested for informational purposes only, for the benefit of the public. Tests were done by an independent laboratory to measure various things people considered it to contain.)

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 20 October 2010 - 03:19 PM.

[smithx]

Excellent work Anthony.

So what's their recommended dosage? 1 pill or 2 a day? How many days on and off, etc?

Edited by smithx, 20 October 2010 - 11:41 PM.

[Gern]

There was a recent documentary on CBC called 'Immortal?' in which Dr. Bill Andrews of Sierra Sciences and Noel Patton of TA Sciences had a brief appearance. It discusses the discovery of telomeres and telomerase. TA-65 is also mentioned but it was stated in the documentary that there is no proof that TA-65 actually works to reverse the aging process in any human study.

If I'm reading the most recent report from TA-Science correctly it's not just that there's no proof that it reverses aging, it seems to me it would be fair to say there's no evidence (or they have yet to produce any) that TA-65 (or any Astrogalus compound) can increases mean telomere length.

[mpe]

Thanks Anthony.

Gern

Sierra Sciences testing has shown it does infact increase telomere length.

[numbered]

Excellent work Anthony.

So what's their recommended dosage? 1 pill or 2 a day? How many days on and off, etc?

they have 3 different dosing schedules
1 capsule per day (250 caps --> 1200$) thats 144$ per 150mg cycloastragenol
2 capsules per day(500 caps -->2200$) thats 132$ per 150mg cycloastragenol
4 capsules per day(1000 caps-->4000$) thats 120$ per 150mg cycloastragenol
asuming that 1cap has 5mg cycloastragenol

they market the 1 cap per day(5mg of cyclo per day) dose as a maintenance dose for ppl that have taken larger dosages of cyclo.
They call the 4 caps per day Full Dose. Their full dose is 20mg cycloastragenol.

Antony's Product has 150mg(or more) of cyclo per 60 caps (2.5mg per cap ). So if someone wants to follow their base "maintenance" dosing schedule he will need to take 2 caps per day of Astral fruit

[maxwatt]

Thanks Anthony.

Gern

Sierra Sciences testing has shown it does infact increase telomere length.

If I recall the study, it changed the distribution of lengths, so there were fewer cells with very low telomere length.

[Gern]

Thanks Anthony.

Gern

Sierra Sciences testing has shown it does infact increase telomere length.

Yes, thanks Anthony for the information.

mpe, the abstract from their latest report says:

"Although mean telomere length did not increase, there was a significant reduction in the percent short (<4 kbp) telomeres ( p¼0.037)

Later on it says:

on average across all subjects there was a nonsignificant decline in mean telomere length.

Clearly there may be value in decreasing the number of short telomeres, and the study demonstrates benefits to taking TA-65. I don't want to minimize that. Heck, I've bought a fair amoung of Anthony's product because I was so amazed and shocked by one of the benefits. What I was trying to say was that if mean telomere length decreases with age, and if TA-65 doesn't increase mean telomere length, then it's not totally unexpected that TA-65 hasn't demonstrated an ability to reverse the effect of aging.

Edited by Gern, 21 October 2010 - 11:50 AM.

[mikeinnaples]

Excellent work Anthony.

So what's their recommended dosage? 1 pill or 2 a day? How many days on and off, etc?

they have 3 different dosing schedules
1 capsule per day (250 caps --> 1200$) thats 144$ per 150mg cycloastragenol
2 capsules per day(500 caps -->2200$) thats 132$ per 150mg cycloastragenol
4 capsules per day(1000 caps-->4000$) thats 120$ per 150mg cycloastragenol
asuming that 1cap has 5mg cycloastragenol

they market the 1 cap per day(5mg of cyclo per day) dose as a maintenance dose for ppl that have taken larger dosages of cyclo.
They call the 4 caps per day Full Dose. Their full dose is 20mg cycloastragenol.

Antony's Product has 150mg(or more) of cyclo per 60 caps (2.5mg per cap ). So if someone wants to follow their base "maintenance" dosing schedule he will need to take 2 caps per day of Astral fruit

Right... or with Anthony's product, $84.95.

Too bad, because you could have gotten the same amount of cycloastragenol with his prior version (chitosan + Cycloastragenol) of the product for half that price.

Speaking of, do we have any pure cycloastragenol suppliers that are in the affordable range like Anthony's old product out there?

[GreenPower]

What does the newest version of TA-65 contain (1 capsule)?


See attached, mystery solved.


(TA-65 is a registered trademark of Telomerase Activation Sciences, Inc. We are in no way associated with this company. We simply have had it tested for informational purposes only, for the benefit of the public. Tests were done by an independent laboratory to measure various things people considered it to contain.)

Thanks for solving the great mystery! Something don't add up with the lab reports from Rita Effros and Maria Blasco, though.

An excerpt from a report from Rita Effros lab:
The Journal of Immunology, Nov 2008, 181: 7400-7406. Steven Russell Fauce*, Beth D. Jamieson{dagger}, Allison C. Chin2,{ddagger}, Ronald T. Mitsuyasu{dagger}, Stan T. Parish*, Hwee L. Ng{dagger}, Christina M. Ramirez Kitchen, Otto O. Yang{dagger}, Calvin B. Harley{ddagger} and Rita B. Effros3,*
* Department of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine and {dagger} Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine, University of California-Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA 90095; {ddagger} Geron, Menlo Park, CA 94025; and Department of Biostatistics, University of California-Los Angeles, School of Public Health, Los Angeles, CA 90095

"TAT2 (cycloastragenol, CAS Registry no. 84605-18-5) was prepared by purification of acid hydrolyzed Astragaloside IV (16) and is available from TA Therapeutics (email charley@geron.com)"

An excerpt from a report from Maria Blasco's lab:
REJUVENATION RESEARCH
Volume 00, Number 00, 2010
ª Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
DOI: 10.1089/rej.2010.1085

A Natural Product Telomerase Activator As Part of a Health Maintenance Program
Calvin B. Harley,1,6 Weimin Liu,2 Maria Blasco,3 Elsa Vera,3 William H. Andrews,4 Laura A. Briggs,4 and Joseph M. Raffaele 5

Here we report initial findings from a dietary supplement
program which includes TA-65, a purified smallmolecule
telomerase activator derived from an extract of a
plant commonly used in traditional Chinese medicine.
Telomerase activation and functional studies on a related
molecule (TAT2) from the same plant have been previously
reported for human skin keratinocytes and immune cells in
culture.36

If we're to trust these reports:
1. TAT2 is Cycloastragenol
2. TA65 is a related molecule to TAT2.
3. Therefore it follows that TAT2 should not have been Cycloastragenol.

Some possible explanations for this discrepancy:

• The formula for TA-65 may have changed between 2008 and 2010, without TA Sciences telling their clients that their formula has changed. This wouldn't inspire a lot of confidence in the product they are selling, though. You wouldn't know if the current batch of pills you get contains the same formula as the last batch of pills you got.
• Rita Effros lab extracted the Cycloastragenol by themselves, so there should be no doubt that they actually tested what they say they tested. I don't think that Geron would have lied about calling Cycloastragenol TAT2. Maria Blasco's lab did not seem to manufacture the TA-65 by themselves, but relying on TA Sciences as a source. Their report doesn't state that they investigated what they were testing, only that TA-65 is related to TAT2 - which I assume they have been told by TA Sciences. In a way I suppose you can argue that Cycloastragenol is not unrelated to Cycloastragenol... If this information is deliberate obfuscation from TA Sciences, it's not building a lot of trust either.

Anyone having other possible explanations to why these reports don't match Anthony's results from American Analytical Chemistry Laboratories Corp?

Anyway. I have about five weeks left on my current regimen of 2 x ((0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg). After this I will probably go back to Cyclostragenol, but double the dose to 2 x (Cycloastragenol 5mg, Chitosan 1mg), in accordance with the "2 capsules per day" regimen that Numbered wrote about.

Edited by GreenPower, 21 October 2010 - 06:14 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Lab tests from an independent company are hard to refute.

Heck I thought it was A4 for the longest time... now I don't have to guess anymore.

A

[johnross47]

I'm still curious as to the advantages, if any, of the new formulation of Astral Fruit......how do cycloastragenol and portulaca interact?
Is it positive negative or not at all? Is there any research on this that we can look up? As a pensioner I have to be careful that expensive supplements are going to br worth the money.

[smithx]

If we're to trust these reports:
1. TAT2 is Cycloastragenol
2. TA65 is a related molecule to TAT2.
3. Therefore it follows that TAT2 should not have been Cycloastragenol.

Some possible explanations for this discrepancy:

Another possible explanation is that the compound is close enough to cycloastragenol that AAC labs wasn't able to distinguish it from that, using LC-MS.

Question: does anyone know how specific LC-MS would be in determining the difference between two compounds which may vary by a single hydrogen placement or some other small change, but which have identical molecular weights?

What if the spectrum for only one of the compounds was on file, the other one having no known spectrum (because it wasn't seen before): how different does a compound have to be from another unknown before it's clear that the differences are not due to lack of accuracy but are due to the fact that the compound is an unknown?

Anyone with a deep knowledge of MS, please reply. Speculators, please don't. Anthony, if you would like to discuss this with AAC and see what they say, that would be of interest.

Edited by smithx, 22 October 2010 - 02:03 AM.

[mpe]

Thanks Anthony.

Gern

Sierra Sciences testing has shown it does infact increase telomere length.

Yes, thanks Anthony for the information.

mpe, the abstract from their latest report says:

"Although mean telomere length did not increase, there was a significant reduction in the percent short (<4 kbp) telomeres ( p¼0.037)

Later on it says:

on average across all subjects there was a nonsignificant decline in mean telomere length.

Clearly there may be value in decreasing the number of short telomeres, and the study demonstrates benefits to taking TA-65. I don't want to minimize that. Heck, I've bought a fair amoung of Anthony's product because I was so amazed and shocked by one of the benefits. What I was trying to say was that if mean telomere length decreases with age, and if TA-65 doesn't increase mean telomere length, then it's not totally unexpected that TA-65 hasn't demonstrated an ability to reverse the effect of aging.

Sierra Sciences described Ta-65 as a very weak activator around 1.5% of 'goal', but that it did infact extend telomeres and it extended the shortest telomeres first.
I guess the cell acts on the shortest fuse first (to paraphrase Bill Andrews).
If you took it long enough at the maximum effective dose, I suppose you would eventually see the telomeres start to grow in length.
A quick look at the Sierra Sciences site shows thier latest non toxic compound is 15.89% of goal.
Thats 10 times more effective than TA-65.
Still TA-65 is available now while we wait for better and cheaper.

[niner]

the abstract from their latest report says:

"Although mean telomere length did not increase, there was a significant reduction in the percent short (<4 kbp) telomeres ( p¼0.037)

Later on it says:

on average across all subjects there was a nonsignificant decline in mean telomere length.

Clearly there may be value in decreasing the number of short telomeres, and the study demonstrates benefits to taking TA-65. I don't want to minimize that. Heck, I've bought a fair amoung of Anthony's product because I was so amazed and shocked by one of the benefits. What I was trying to say was that if mean telomere length decreases with age, and if TA-65 doesn't increase mean telomere length, then it's not totally unexpected that TA-65 hasn't demonstrated an ability to reverse the effect of aging.

Well, now you've piqued my curiosity... What benefit of Astral Fruit were you you amazed and shocked by?

My understanding of telomeres is that everything is fine until they get to a critical shortness, then genetic instability ensues. Even if average telomere lengths were decreasing slightly, as long as the critically short telomeres were being lengthened, then we should see some beneficial effects. It does sound like some beneficial effects were seen from TA-65. There's more to aging than telomeres; maintaining telomere length beyond a critical threshold might be a necessary, though probably not sufficient condition for extreme life extension.

[stephen_b]

I wonder if TA-65 would actually increase mean telomere length if a person was sufficiently old.

[Gern]

Well, now you've piqued my curiosity... What benefit of Astral Fruit were you you amazed and shocked by?

I've been nearsighted most of my life, plus my eyesight tends to drift over time so my perscription changes with time. I had radial karototomy a while back before laser surgery become commerically viable, but my vision drifed. In fact it overcorrected enough so I went back to glasses. So several year ago I had laser surgery again and that helped. However, since then my vision has drifted again and I was starting to feel like I might need glasses again soon. I decided to try Astial Fruit, but I had figured telomere lengthening was a long term process so I wouldn't see any effect for a while, plus I'm not sure I'd seen reports of improved eyesight, or if I had they hadn't registered. So I was shocked when after only a few days of taking Astral Fruit I noticed improvement in my vision. It was enough so that by the end of the first week I'd frequently find myself just standing there gazing around amazed at how clear and crisp everything had become. I've been taking it a week on and a week off as RevGenetics suggests and by the end of the second week of taking it my vision has improved even more. What surprised me is I wasn't expecting it. Most supliments have relatively subtle effects, but this was quick and dramatic. I suspect someone with normal vision might not see as much effect, but it was enough to convince me to run out and buy a larger supply.

My understanding of telomeres is that everything is fine until they get to a critical shortness, then genetic instability ensues. Even if average telomere lengths were decreasing slightly, as long as the critically short telomeres were being lengthened, then we should see some beneficial effects. It does sound like some beneficial effects were seen from TA-65. There's more to aging than telomeres; maintaining telomere length beyond a critical threshold might be a necessary, though probably not sufficient condition for extreme life extension.

Maybe you can tell me what to make of this. Someone posted this a short time ago What Makes Us Age? Ticking of Cellular Clock Promotes Seismic Changes in Chromatin Landscape Associated With Aging, and it's a report of a study, the synopsys of which can apparently be found here: Reduced histone biosynthesis and chromatin changes arising from a damage signal at telomeres. It seems to be suggesting a link between DNA expression and telomere length which would imply that the effects of shortening telomeres may occur long before they become critically short. However, I'm not a biologist so I never know quite what to make of this kind of thing.

[niner]

Well, now you've piqued my curiosity... What benefit of Astral Fruit were you you amazed and shocked by?

I've been nearsighted most of my life, plus my eyesight tends to drift over time so my perscription changes with time. I had radial karototomy a while back before laser surgery become commerically viable, but my vision drifed. In fact it overcorrected enough so I went back to glasses. So several year ago I had laser surgery again and that helped. However, since then my vision has drifted again and I was starting to feel like I might need glasses again soon. I decided to try Astial Fruit, but I had figured telomere lengthening was a long term process so I wouldn't see any effect for a while, plus I'm not sure I'd seen reports of improved eyesight, or if I had they hadn't registered. So I was shocked when after only a few days of taking Astral Fruit I noticed improvement in my vision. It was enough so that by the end of the first week I'd frequently find myself just standing there gazing around amazed at how clear and crisp everything had become. I've been taking it a week on and a week off as RevGenetics suggests and by the end of the second week of taking it my vision has improved even more. What surprised me is I wasn't expecting it. Most supliments have relatively subtle effects, but this was quick and dramatic. I suspect someone with normal vision might not see as much effect, but it was enough to convince me to run out and buy a larger supply.

In the TA Sciences reporting from early patients on TA-65, there was mention of people's vision improving.

My understanding of telomeres is that everything is fine until they get to a critical shortness, then genetic instability ensues. Even if average telomere lengths were decreasing slightly, as long as the critically short telomeres were being lengthened, then we should see some beneficial effects. It does sound like some beneficial effects were seen from TA-65. There's more to aging than telomeres; maintaining telomere length beyond a critical threshold might be a necessary, though probably not sufficient condition for extreme life extension.

Maybe you can tell me what to make of this. Someone posted this a short time ago What Makes Us Age? Ticking of Cellular Clock Promotes Seismic Changes in Chromatin Landscape Associated With Aging, and it's a report of a study, the synopsys of which can apparently be found here: Reduced histone biosynthesis and chromatin changes arising from a damage signal at telomeres. It seems to be suggesting a link between DNA expression and telomere length which would imply that the effects of shortening telomeres may occur long before they become critically short. However, I'm not a biologist so I never know quite what to make of this kind of thing.

I haven't been able to get the full paper yet, and I'm not quite sure what to make of this.

[Elus]

I wonder if TA-65 would actually increase mean telomere length if a person was sufficiently old.

Ha, let's get some 90-100 year olds to start taking it... but that chances of that type of experiment happening are slim ....

[times_are_changing]

Hello you all,
the report about TA65 capsules analysis is very interesting. Thanks a lot to Anthony_Loera for such a relevant information.
The lab report could be downloaded here:
http://www.imminst.o...&attach_id=8827

We can summarize this report with the following result:

astragaloside IV 027 mg / caps
astragenol 0.01 mg / caps
cycloastragenol 5.44 mg / caps

Chemical formula of cycloastragenol is C30-H50-O5;
Is anyone over there to send us the chemical formula for astragenol and for astragaloside ???
As a researcher I think that I can launch a test in my lab on mammalians to check how efficient such a formula could be .....
Do you think that could be worth a try ????
richard

[omegaman]

From what I have concluded from this thread is this:

The TA-65 report analysis courtesy of Anthony Loera proves that TA-65 is cycloastagenol.

http://www.imminst.o...&attach_id=8827

Compare with TA-65 report analysis from TA-Sciences:

http://www.tascience...n_pharma_01.pdf

It is obvious that the TA-65 active ingredient is cycloastragenol.

Also, about dosing - if you read from the TA-Sciences website about their dosing guidlines.

http://www.tascience...sing-guideline/

5mg of cycloastragenol is the minimum suggested dose, while 20mg cycloastragenol is considered the maximum FULL dose based on their research.

Read the peer-reviewed paper on TA-65 as well with a lot of good info on TA-65 which of course is cycloastragenol:

http://www.lieberton...9/rej.2010.1085

As a side note on the research done by Scierra Sciences it is apparent they are pursuing the nutraceutical option so they can bypass FDA approval in the short term. It states on the main page of their website that they are "screening natural product extracts". I guess they are convinced in cycloastragenol's efficacy even at low level telomerase activation.

http://www.sierrasci.com/index.html

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

[mikeinnaples]

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

A few things:

1. 84.95 to receive that dose. The old product provided 5mg a dose for half the price of the new product.

2. The specific amount of cycloastragenol is not listed on the bottle of astral fruit. This means that despite our trust of Anthony and his honesty, he is not bound lengally to provide that amount in his product. This also means you are not guaranteed to receive the same amount of it every order as it is a 'proprietary' formula which he can change on a whim. Just a note, The old product had the amount specifically listed on the label.

Unfortunately, as of now ....I know of nobody else providing the product specifically that can be deemed a 'safe' source. This pretty much means we are stuck with TA prices or not knowing that we are really getting what we want with Anthony. Hopefully someone else comes along in the market soon, or we can convince Anthony to go back to providing a cycloastragenol product specifically like he used to.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 27 October 2010 - 02:27 PM.

[johnross47]

As I have said before (but not yet had any response) the new product not only fails to specify the amount on the bottle but it is a combination in which the interaction of the two main ingredients appears to be unknown. Why not just go back to the original cycloastragenol product and make us all happy?

[mikeinnaples]

As I have said before (but not yet had any response) the new product not only fails to specify the amount on the bottle but it is a combination in which the interaction of the two main ingredients appears to be unknown. Why not just go back to the original cycloastragenol product and make us all happy?

I couldn't agree more with you, especially since I will be up for reorder soon and would like to get a product 'somewhere'. I just can't buy the product as is because I am not sure of what I am getting.

[Anthony_Loera]

From what I have concluded from this thread is this:

The TA-65 report analysis courtesy of Anthony Loera proves that TA-65 is cycloastagenol.

http://www.imminst.o...&attach_id=8827

Compare with TA-65 report analysis from TA-Sciences:

http://www.tascience...n_pharma_01.pdf

It is obvious that the TA-65 active ingredient is cycloastragenol.

Also, about dosing - if you read from the TA-Sciences website about their dosing guidlines.

http://www.tascience...sing-guideline/

5mg of cycloastragenol is the minimum suggested dose, while 20mg cycloastragenol is considered the maximum FULL dose based on their research.

Read the peer-reviewed paper on TA-65 as well with a lot of good info on TA-65 which of course is cycloastragenol:

http://www.lieberton...9/rej.2010.1085

As a side note on the research done by Scierra Sciences it is apparent they are pursuing the nutraceutical option so they can bypass FDA approval in the short term. It states on the main page of their website that they are "screening natural product extracts". I guess they are convinced in cycloastragenol's efficacy even at low level telomerase activation.

http://www.sierrasci.com/index.html

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

Yes, you are correct... you get at least 5mg per day of Cycloastragenol with the product you linked to above.

In addition, you also get two other telomerase support ingredients which have associated studies on telomeres, as well as ingredients that support increased absorption that TA-65 does not have per their label.


Of course, since we now know TA-65 is cycloastragenol, we can make a future product with just this ingredient in mind for folks that are not interested in increased absorption, or other telomerase ingredients that may increase the support for telomeres.

The inclination to purchase a cheap product rather than a quality product tends to permeate these forums, at least from Mike who has commented on this previously regarding our specials and member deals, so his comments were expected.

Mike, since you are becoming a member, then you will be able to get a few more discounts in sthe future. Other folks that want to support Imminst.org will also get discounts by becoming a paying member. So I suggest it highly if you want to support this non-profit organization and advocacy for longevity.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 28 October 2010 - 02:46 PM.

[medievil]

Hey Anthony,

Can you check your inbox please, thx

[mikeinnaples]

Of course, since we now know TA-65 is cycloastragenol, we can make a future product with just this ingredient in mind for folks that are not interested in increased absorption, or other telomerase ingredients that may increase the support for telomeres.

The inclination to purchase a cheap product rather than a quality product tends to permeate these forums, at least from Mike who has commented on this previously regarding our specials and member deals, so his comments were expected.

Mike, since you are becoming a member, then you will be able to get a few more discounts in sthe future. Other folks that want to support Imminst.org will also get discounts by becoming a paying member. So I suggest it highly if you want to support this non-profit organization and advocacy for longevity.

A

Frankly, my membership status and why I cancelled it doesn't concern you. However since you chose to go there ...I was a member and cancelled because I was billed a second time without my consent. It was a matter of principal with me to cancel my membership as a result, despite being what I am positive was an honest mistake. I do suspect that I will be a member again in the future.

Anyways, I am unsure of why you attempt to put 'words in my mouth' by stating that I would rather purchase cheap rather than quality products when that was never the intent of my posts and you absolutely know it. I dare you to find a single place that I would rather have low quality products. Yes, i am calling you out ...put up or shut up and retract your statement.

I have consistently, across the board stated that your products are safe and quality products and have recommended them to other people both in these forums and elsewhere, so I absolutely do not understand why you behave like this towards me. It is almost as if you are attempting to drive away my business with these absolutely uncalled for, and unprofessional responses.


I get it Anthony:

1. You are unhappy that I have expressed discontent with your pricing schema, despite the fact that I never asked for lower pricing ...just the same pricing that other people get.

2. You are unhappy with the fact that I keep pointing out that you no longer list cycloastragenol amounts in your product, thereby guaranteeing your customers no specific amount of it because you are no longer held accountable to provide a specific amount.

3. You are unhappy with me because I liked your prior version of Astral Fruit better, that had a specific amount of cycloastragenol in it (5mg) and chitosan to increase absorption... and that I keep pointing out that the older product was better, in my opinion of course.

Listen, if you are going to express your unhappiness with me, that is your perogative ...but I implore you, keep it accurate and professional rather than trying to make your point via reinventing history and defamation of character. You provide a good product with fair price points to many people that is tested to be safe and actually contain the ingredients listed (when they are listed that is). Please don't jeopardize that by being unprofessional, because I firmly believe that you are a benefit to the life extension community.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 28 October 2010 - 03:58 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

This is about your discontent with how we do our promotions, and your discontent with pricing. I am merely stating that you will now be provided discounts for being a member. I don't know about your past membership issues, that appears to be an administrative issue with the non-profit, and it is in your best interest to clear it up... just like I would clear things up if I were charged twice myself.

In regards to your unhappiness with the way we promote or provide sale prices... well said it your self:

1. You are unhappy that I have expressed discontent with your pricing schema, despite the fact that I never asked for lower pricing ...just the same pricing that other people get.

We have gone through this before and you simply want the pricing that other people get... when they are members or sign up for a monthly subscription, while you decline such things. This type of promotion with lower pricing upsets you when we have it. Again, we talked about this before, folks sign up for memberships or subscriptions for things to get a lower price, and you believe that is somehow cheating the customer that decides not to get such things.

2. You are unhappy with the fact that I keep pointing out that you no longer list cycloastragenol amounts in your product, thereby guaranteeing your customers no specific amount of it because you are no longer held accountable to provide a specific amount.

We provide a minimum of 150mg per bottle, I have stated it here and it is on our website. Yes, we may have more... but I will decline to say how much more.

3. You are unhappy with me because I liked your prior version of Astral Fruit better, that had a specific amount of cycloastragenol in it (5mg) and chitosan to increase absorption... and that I keep pointing out that the older product was better, in my opinion of course.

The last product was excellent, however by providing more telomerase support ingredients other than a minimum of 5mg a day of Cycloastragenol, as well as two ingredients to help absorption (not just chitosan) we believe it is a better product than others that only provide 1 ingredient and no support ingredients to assure absorption.


In the end you will pick your product and go with it.
We simply believe we provide more of the good stuff that concentrates on absorption, not just telomerase support.


A