2189 replies to this topic

[motorcitykid]

If taking resveratrol, wait at least 5 hours before or after meditating! LOl

http://www.scienceda...01103171642.htm

[Gern]

1. I'm confused. How could taking an anti-oxidant help repair damage that was there in the first place?

Perhaps it was this exact question which lead the researchers to make this conjecture:

The author hypothesized that the mechanism of action is ultimately provided by melatonin’s ability to activate telomerase activity retinal pigment epithelium. This activation helps not only prevent the onset of AMD but also treat it.

[Elus]

1. I'm confused. How could taking an anti-oxidant help repair damage that was there in the first place?

Perhaps it was this exact question which lead the researchers to make this conjecture:

The author hypothesized that the mechanism of action is ultimately provided by melatonin's ability to activate telomerase activity retinal pigment epithelium. This activation helps not only prevent the onset of AMD but also treat it.

Thank you for pointing that out, although I'm still not sure I entirely I understand their conjecture. Once the telomerase in retinal pigment epithelium cells is activated, do the cells begin to replicate and replace damaged ones?

[GreenPower]

If taking resveratrol, wait at least 5 hours before or after meditating! LOl

http://www.scienceda...01103171642.htm

I don't think you should make light of this research until it's proven whether it works or not. As a side note, the last four months I've incorporated 20 minutes of TM into my regimen every "working day" around lunch time. The immediate result was that I had to cut my Gingko Biloba dose in half, because all of a sudden the effect of it was way too much.

[tintinet]

If taking resveratrol, wait at least 5 hours before or after meditating! LOl

http://www.scienceda...01103171642.htm

I don't think you should make light of this research until it's proven whether it works or not. As a side note, the last four months I've incorporated 20 minutes of TM into my regimen every "working day" around lunch time. The immediate result was that I had to cut my Gingko Biloba dose in half, because all of a sudden the effect of it was way too much.

What effect did you notice? What dose of GB were you using?

[GreenPower]

If taking resveratrol, wait at least 5 hours before or after meditating! LOl

http://www.scienceda...01103171642.htm

I don't think you should make light of this research until it's proven whether it works or not. As a side note, the last four months I've incorporated 20 minutes of TM into my regimen every "working day" around lunch time. The immediate result was that I had to cut my Gingko Biloba dose in half, because all of a sudden the effect of it was way too much.

What effect did you notice? What dose of GB were you using?

The dose was 2 x Ginkgo Biloba (100 mg, corresponding to 24 mg flavonoid glycosides and 6 mg terpenoids), one in the morning and one in the afternoon, most often taken together with Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg).

The effect is sort of difficult to describe, but a feeling of "neurons in the brain being overheated" might give an idea.

I've taken this combination earlier (see earlier in this thread) and also used it during the first two months in this "6 month period" without any negative effects. Because TM was the only newly introduced element, and I elaborated with trying to raise the dose again several times, I see a connection between this effect and TM.

[Mot]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum but I've been doing due diligence and reading back pages for it seems days now. I've got a couple of questions I'm hoping someone more informed than me can answer.

1) I've got prostate cancer and have been dealing with it for 3 years entirely by natural means. (relatively stable so far though I've been graded stage 3/4 and Gleason of 6/7 by the docs- who of course are totally ignorant of diet and supplement interventions) After the biopsy which I assented to under a lot of pressure from docs and family I got sepsis (e coli) and subsequently now have recurrent urinary tract infections which antibiotics do not seem to touch (last go round was 6 weeks of Bactrim). So now I'm dealing with cancer and chronic prostatitis and for a formerly healthy 57 year old who is a fit vegetarian it's quite a set back. After years of research and tons of supplements I've determined that a telomerase inducer might tip the balance for my immune system. In doing the research I had a chance to talk with Dr. Miki Shima an ND in California who is licensed by T A Sciences. He urged me to take the high level dosage of TA 65 plus Rhemannia 8 which is known as a tonic for the urinary system. He indicated that he felt that Rhemannia 8 would act as a delivery system for the TA 65 effectively directing the TA 65 to the prostate and environs. Now having read the forum here I'm pretty much convinced that I'd rather deal with Rev genetics Astral Fruit. I'm wondering Anthony if you or anyone else on this forum have an opinion about this protocol? As it looks like I should be taking the equivalent large dose of cycloastragenol any breaks on pricing would help me out here. I'm willing to become a paying member here anyway but would like to know how the membership rate compares.

2) Has anyone tried using DMSO as a carrier of cycloastragenol? If the digestive system is a barrier to complete bioavailability it seems to me that DMSO might be worth trying. Any ideas here- also about dosing using this method?

many thanks,
Mot

[motorcitykid]

If taking resveratrol, wait at least 5 hours before or after meditating! LOl

http://www.scienceda...01103171642.htm

I don't think you should make light of this research until it's proven whether it works or not. As a side note, the last four months I've incorporated 20 minutes of TM into my regimen every "working day" around lunch time. The immediate result was that I had to cut my Gingko Biloba dose in half, because all of a sudden the effect of it was way too much.

I AM making light of it Green, but not for the reason you think. I find it humorous that we're all stressing to find the goose with the golden egg(It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, World)and the quintessential telomerase stimulator is a prolonged leg-crossing/breathing session. This is great news for me because I meditate on a regular basis and have been for years...ohhmmmm. I won't be discarding my supplement firewall anytime soon, though.

The study was stretced for 3 months and conducted in a secure, supportive environment. This affects the social dynamics of how people relate. Could this have enhanced the results?>My question is to what degree does reframing the social context play a part in this study? We know that stress hastens telomere shortening. I imagine that longterm, daily contact with like minded, positive people showering each other with smiles and affirmations could have the opposite affect...with or without mindful breathing.

6 hours a day for 3 months! I don't have that kind of time on my hands, but I will try to meditate for longer periods of time--in a group setting when scheduling allows. Peace, Green.

Here it is again:

http://www.scienceda...01103171642.htm

[Anthony_Loera]

Members who are interested, please look at the 'Members Only' Forum:
http://www.imminst.o...-members-forum/

A discount code for 10% has been added to the Vimmortal thread, for the cycloastragenol product.
Another reason to consider becoming a full member for this non-profit group.


A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 11 November 2010 - 05:32 PM.

[motorcitykid]

Members who are interested, please look at the 'Members Only' Forum:
http://www.imminst.o...-members-forum/

A discount code for 10% has been added to the Vimmortal thread, for the cycloastragenol product.
Another reason to consider becoming a full member for this non-profit group.


A

Hi Anthony. I notice that you included nicotonic acid in the multi. There hasn't been a full indictment of nicotonic acid suppressing Sirt, but definately a lot of controversy. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this subject?

[mikeinnaples]

Hi Anthony. I notice that you included nicotonic acid in the multi. There hasn't been a full indictment of nicotonic acid suppressing Sirt, but definately a lot of controversy. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this subject?

Why would that matter for a multi anyways? The purpose of the multi isnt SIRT activation.

[motorcitykid]

Hi Anthony. I notice that you included nicotonic acid in the multi. There hasn't been a full indictment of nicotonic acid suppressing Sirt, but definately a lot of controversy. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this subject?

Why would that matter for a multi anyways? The purpose of the multi isnt SIRT activation.

Hi Mike. I'm trying to find out what Anthony's thoughts are on nicotonic acid and Sirt inhibition, not activation. I don't think anyone on this thread wants to inhibit Sirt, especially those of us spending extra cash on resveratrol.

[mikeinnaples]

Hi Anthony. I notice that you included nicotonic acid in the multi. There hasn't been a full indictment of nicotonic acid suppressing Sirt, but definately a lot of controversy. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this subject?

Why would that matter for a multi anyways? The purpose of the multi isnt SIRT activation.

Hi Mike. I'm trying to find out what Anthony's thoughts are on nicotonic acid and Sirt inhibition, not activation. I don't think anyone on this thread wants to inhibit Sirt, especially those of us spending extra cash on resveratrol.

Yes I understand that. My point was, that if you probably shouldnt be taking a multi period if that is your primary concern.

[motorcitykid]

Hi Anthony. I notice that you included nicotonic acid in the multi. There hasn't been a full indictment of nicotonic acid suppressing Sirt, but definately a lot of controversy. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this subject?

Why would that matter for a multi anyways? The purpose of the multi isnt SIRT activation.

Hi Mike. I'm trying to find out what Anthony's thoughts are on nicotonic acid and Sirt inhibition, not activation. I don't think anyone on this thread wants to inhibit Sirt, especially those of us spending extra cash on resveratrol.

Yes I understand that. My point was, that if you probably shouldnt be taking a multi period if that is your primary concern.

I don't mean to ruffle your feathers Mike but I don't follow your line of thinking...or maybe I didn't explain myself clearly. There is conflicting data supporting the advantages and disadvantages of niacan supplementation. There is some speculation that any form of niacin is a potential SIRT inhibitor(evidence indicates nicotinamide more so than nicotonic acid). Having an SIRT inhibitor in a multi would be considered by most to be a disadvantage. I'm assuming that you know why it' would be considered to be disadvantage.

I'm going to take a risk here and venture to say that Anthony probably doesn't want an SIRT inhibitor in his multi. I'm speculating that Anthony might have considered this fact when formulating his multi, Vimmortal, because it only contains 16mg of niacin as nicotonic acid. Other multi's contain 50mg of niacin as niacinamide.

I'm wondering what the deciding factor or factors were that helped Anthony to make this decision. Also, how he came up w/ the number 16mg. Did Anthony conclude that 16mg of nicotonic acid is not enough to cause a stir on the SIRT pathway?

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Motorcitykid,

you have lots of questions that are interesting to folks but don't seem to be quite relevant to this thread, start a new thread about these questions and I will help with some thoughts. There is also some past threads on this forum regarding nicotinic acid that I think you may have read.:

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

I love google, it makes it really easy to search for stuff here in this forum.

Thanks
A

[rwac]

Anthony, Do you have any papers regarding astral fruit C and it's efficacy for chronic fatigue type disorders ?

[Rational Madman]

Anthony, Do you have any papers regarding astral fruit C and it's efficacy for chronic fatigue type disorders ?

Submit this link at the paper request forum to get the full text:
http://www.sciencedi...eb&searchtype=a

It also occurred to me, some antidepressants, antipsychotics, and mood stabilizers also prevent viral replication. I'll keep you posted.

[Enoch]

I speculate about an alternative method to convert astragaloside IV to cycloastragenol.
The traditional Chinese medicine prepare the astragalus root using honey.
Why? I found that fresh honey contains many enzymes able to hydrolizing and break the sugars in small molecules.
Maybe the bee's honey contains also an enzyme that help astragaloside to be converted in cycloastragenol ?
If so, many people that take the astragalus root (or the extract) for increase the telomerase expression may benefit too eating honey with the extract.
Or another way is to ferment or "cook" astragalus root with honey and a little bit of water using low temperatures.
I apologize for my english, but what do you think about this idea?

Edited by Enoch, 17 November 2010 - 01:17 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

I don't mean to ruffle your feathers Mike but I don't follow your line of thinking...or maybe I didn't explain myself clearly.

Perhaps one or the other, and no feathers ruffled. There are many things that can potentially inhibit SIRT that are known and most likely many others that are unknown ...at this time. My reasoning, is that if you wanted to ensure SIRT activation rather than inhibitiion, you would have to be extremely strict with what you supplement, and by nature, a multi typically contains too many items to allow for such strict control. Case in point would be your concern with Niacin. That is where I was going with my comments. I could be off base with them, but I dont think I really am. Hope that clarifies where I am coming from for you.

[motorcitykid]

Hi Motorcitykid,

you have lots of questions that are interesting to folks but don't seem to be quite relevant to this thread, start a new thread about these questions and I will help with some thoughts. There is also some past threads on this forum regarding nicotinic acid that I think you may have read.:

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

I love google, it makes it really easy to search for stuff here in this forum.

Thanks

Anthony thank you for posting links to those threads. I'm new to the site and haven't had a chance to hop on the due diligence train :-))

I did a few google searches of my own but Vince Giuliano's blog on Niacinamide/Nicotonic Acid was my primary source of info(also found your astragaloside product via Vince).

I will continue to peruse the thread and start a new topic if need be.

[motorcitykid]

I don't mean to ruffle your feathers Mike but I don't follow your line of thinking...or maybe I didn't explain myself clearly.

Perhaps one or the other, and no feathers ruffled. There are many things that can potentially inhibit SIRT that are known and most likely many others that are unknown ...at this time. My reasoning, is that if you wanted to ensure SIRT activation rather than inhibitiion, you would have to be extremely strict with what you supplement, and by nature, a multi typically contains too many items to allow for such strict control. Case in point would be your concern with Niacin. That is where I was going with my comments. I could be off base with them, but I dont think I really am. Hope that clarifies where I am coming from for you.

Thanks for the head's up Mike I'll look into that.

[Flying Hermit]

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

http://www.terratern...id=563&pgid=139

[Flying Hermit]

I know of nobody else providing the product specifically that can be deemed a 'safe' source.

http://www.terratern...id=563&pgid=139

[GreenPower]

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

http://www.terratern...id=563&pgid=139

They seem to offer two sizes. The larger bottle would offer better price performance.

I would like them to present some lab report on the exact content, but I guess the absence of this is why the price is lower. Or maybe they aren't quite ready to start sell their "Cycloastragenol - 5mg " yet. I can't find a direct link to it through their own website, only your link or by searching on Google.

[GreenPower]

I AM making light of it Green, but not for the reason you think. I find it humorous that we're all stressing to find the goose with the golden egg(It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, World)and the quintessential telomerase stimulator is a prolonged leg-crossing/breathing session. This is great news for me because I meditate on a regular basis and have been for years...ohhmmmm. I won't be discarding my supplement firewall anytime soon, though.

The study was stretced for 3 months and conducted in a secure, supportive environment. This affects the social dynamics of how people relate. Could this have enhanced the results?>My question is to what degree does reframing the social context play a part in this study? We know that stress hastens telomere shortening. I imagine that longterm, daily contact with like minded, positive people showering each other with smiles and affirmations could have the opposite affect...with or without mindful breathing.

6 hours a day for 3 months! I don't have that kind of time on my hands, but I will try to meditate for longer periods of time--in a group setting when scheduling allows. Peace, Green.

Here it is again:

http://www.scienceda...01103171642.htm

Aha, now I understand your reasoning, and I find it quite interesting. I also find it interesting that they call a rather short 3 month study a "long term study", and that they only measured telomerase activity and not telomere lengths.

Not all people are shaped in the same way though and some might react differently. I would for example expect an "Introverted" person to react better to this treatment than an "Extroverted" person (see personality typing alá David Keirsey/Myer-Briggs/Carl Gustaf Jung for an explanation of the real meaning of the terms). The reasoning being that today's society offer introverted persons very few chances of retreating to a silent place where they can charge their batteries. This can be experienced as very stressful. An extroverted person would not have the same need for meditation according to this reasoning.

Six hours of meditation per day sounds a bit much though. I mean, add nine hours of sleep to this and you only have nine hours of time left to actually be doing stuff

Anyway, on Monday I will take my next telomere test and in a month or so I would expect to see if my current regimen have had any effect or not.

[bocor]

GREEN POWER...I know you noticed increased vellous growth of hair on astragaloside 4.....Has that continued into cyclo astragenol?Im wandering if maybe the A4 was responsible for that alone thx

[Enoch]

[Transformation of astragaloside IV in bidirectional solid fermenting of Astragalus membranaceus]
[Article in Chinese]

Ruan M, Zhang LY, Yu B, Chen YS, Zhuang Y.

Institute of Medicinal Fungi, Department of Life Science, Nanjing Xiaozhuang University, Nanjing 211171, China.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To study the transformation of Astragaloside IV in bidirectional solid fermenting of Astragalus membranaceus var. mongholicus.

METHODS: The chemical components of pre and post-fermenting were comparatively analyzed by techniques of HPLC, column chromatography and spectral identification. Antioxidant effect of transformational product on vascular endothelial cells was researched.

RESULTS: In fermenting of Astragalus membranaceus, Astragaloside IV was transformated into 6-O-beta-D-glucoside cycloastragenol, which had significant antioxidant effect.

CONCLUSION: Biotransformation of Astragaloside IV in Astragalus membranaceus was occurred after bidirectional solid fermenting with Ganoderma lucidum, and the biotransformation could enhance effect.

[niner]

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

http://www.terratern...id=563&pgid=139

They seem to offer two sizes. The larger bottle would offer better price performance.

I would like them to present some lab report on the exact content, but I guess the absence of this is why the price is lower.

Lower than what? Unless something has changed since you posted, Terraternal is more than twice as expensive as RG, even considering the larger size. RG has a CoA, and Terraternal doesn't. Not much competition happening yet. I guess you're comparing to TA Sciences...

[GreenPower]

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

http://www.terratern...id=563&pgid=139

They seem to offer two sizes. The larger bottle would offer better price performance.

I would like them to present some lab report on the exact content, but I guess the absence of this is why the price is lower.

Lower than what? Unless something has changed since you posted, Terraternal is more than twice as expensive as RG, even considering the larger size. RG has a CoA, and Terraternal doesn't. Not much competition happening yet. I guess you're comparing to TA Sciences...

That would be "...offer better price performance than the small bottle".

If you only count the amount of Cycloastragenol you get for the money, the prices are about the same for "Terraternal Cycloastragenol, 5mg" and "AstralFruit-NF60".

• One package of 60 pills "Terraternal Cycloastragenol, 5mg" = 300mg Cycloastragenol = $180
• Two packages of 60 pills "AstralFruit-NF60" (2,5 mg Cycloastragenol) = 300mg Cycloastragenol = $170

The ingredients for "AstralFruit-NF60" seem interesting enough, but personally when I do a test I would prefer to know the exact amounts of the ingredients in my supplements.

For my next six months, starting in about two or three weeks, I will go with 2 x (Cycloastragenol 5mg, Chitosan 1mg) and 1 x Ginkgo biloba L. 100 mg (24 mg ginkgoflavonidglycosides , 6 mg terpenoids) / day, .

[GreenPower]

GREEN POWER...I know you noticed increased vellous growth of hair on astragaloside 4.....Has that continued into cyclo astragenol?Im wandering if maybe the A4 was responsible for that alone thx

I would say that I have insufficient information information to say anything definite about that.

I've done three 6 month periods with different regimens. The first one was AIV, the second one was Cyclo and the third was "Standardized Astragalus" ((0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg).

• I would say that most of the vellus hair growth occurred during the first period.
• It sort of continued a little bit during the second period and most of the vellus hairs might have have grown a millimeter more or two. This might however have been a delayed effect of the previous regimen. Or not.
• After the third period I think I've got more of them, but I don't think they have grown any longer.

The major problem I have is that I haven't measured the length or the thickness of my hair on these previously (small but) completely bald spots, so I can't for sure say how much or little the hair has grown or not. The information provided above are more "subjective" observations than any hard facts. I can say one thing for certain though. The vellus hair is vellus hair, not real hair. It's very short has no colour what so ever.

The other results I got makes me hesitant to use AIV again for any-reason-what-so-ever, but I will soon go back to Cyclo and double the previous dose. I might have some new results with regards to hair growth in half a year or so.

Maybe anyone else in the thread have got any results with regards to hair growth?

Edited by GreenPower, 29 November 2010 - 06:09 PM.