2189 replies to this topic

[Chopperboy]

Can anyone recommend a reputable producer to get the raw 98% powder from, at a reasonable price?

Edited by Chopperboy, 01 August 2011 - 12:19 PM.

[Moonlitnight]

Can anyone tell me how telomerase can be raised through "select processed glandular extracts"? I have been hit with a questionable looking email going on about a product you take once every six months for $250 a pop. The email says it increases telomerase and has a lot of sketchy-looking testimonials. If you read the email, it goes on and on about all the research on telomeres, Geron and so on, but doesn't actually say how their product works. I'm thinking that the brain is supposed to make the connection between their company and genuine telomerase research and it's just nonsense. It's not new but I can't see any ref. to it on this forum. It's called Reneuve and is being discussed (lightly) on another life extension site. All it contains is grain alcohol, water, the glandular extracts and a couple of dyes. Your respected opinions would be appreciated. Sorry if this is repetitive but I did a search first.

Edited to add: You also take a daily hit of "N-Acetylcysteine, Astragalus, Vitamin D3, Telomerase Enzyme, Grenadine" for $250 a bottle. I'm interested in how they have isolated the "telomerase enzyme."

Edited by Anisor, 01 August 2011 - 04:01 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Anisor,

In short,
I personally wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Why?
The label states proprietary formula, however the label requires all active ingredients to be listed. The term 'Select Processed Glandular Extracts' does not define an active ingredient. I personally believe that this product's label is not legally in compliance to current FDA label requirements and definitely falls within the 'adulterated' description of the FDA.


Adulterated definition:
http://www.fda.gov/R...d/ucm107527.htm

Other FDA Links:
http://www.fda.gov/F...e/ucm070519.htm

http://www.fda.gov/F...e/ucm070611.htm

As well as Page 10, section D of the final rules here regarding proprietary blends:
http://www.fda.gov/d...n/ucm107951.pdf

FDA is persuaded by the comment that it is not necessary to include the term ‘‘proprietary blend’’ when the blend is identified by another term or fanciful or trademarked name. Inasmuch as the act does not require use of the term ‘‘proprietary blend,’’ and the formatting requirements (i.e., declaration of total weight of blend followed by listing of dietary ingredients in the blend) will make the presence of a proprietary blend apparent, the agency is modifying § 101.36©, ©(2), and ©(3) to state that the blend may be identified by the term ‘‘Proprietary Blend’’ or another appropriately descriptive term or fanciful name.

Cheers
A

[Moonlitnight]

Thanks Anthony I have no intention of buying it as it reeks of the bandwagon. Also from what creature are the glands? At least it should say bovine or porcine or whatever. I was just intrigued by the concept that telomerase might be present in glandular matter. it seems like a stretch to me.

[hav]

Got me curious too. I noticed this blog site that they apparently posted to:

http://www.belacanem...lement-reneuve/

mentioned this: "Follow to link why the main ingredients in Reneuve just won a Nobel Prize in Medicine."

So I searched the recent Nobel Prize recipients and found this:

http://nobelprize.or.../2009/press.pdf

... suggesting that the mysterious glandular extract might be either raw telomerase or perhaps some of the actual Tetrahymena material used in the 1982 experiment. I guess the real question is whether it can be expected that eating either of these things might yield the same results in a human body that they observed on yeast cells? There doesn't seem to be any mention that any other experiment or trial has shown that to be the case.

Howard

[Anthony_Loera]

Uhm...

It still sounds like an NDI to me, which would have the FDA knocking at their door for various reasons:
- it was not sold as a supplement before October 15, 1994. (well maybe it was, but without knowing the ingredient... it sounds like an NDI)
- they haven't proven it to be safe for consumption.
- The label is not in compliance

Take your pick... I personally would avoid it, as they need to be at the very least correctly state what is on the label, then show studies regarding the ingredient (among other things) activates telomerase.

The FDA doesn't work off of assumptions, why should you?

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 01 August 2011 - 05:22 PM.

[missminni]

duplicate post...please delete

Edited by missminni, 01 August 2011 - 06:36 PM.

[missminni]

Uhm...

It still sounds like an NDI to me, which would have the FDA knocking at their door for various reasons:
- it was not sold as a supplement before October 15, 1994. (well maybe it was, but without knowing the ingredient... it sounds like an NDI)
- they haven't proven it to be safe for consumption.
- The label is not in compliance

Take your pick... I personally would avoid it, as they need to be at the very least correctly state what is on the label, then show studies regarding the ingredient (among other things) activates telomerase.

The FDA doesn't work off of assumptions, why should you?

A

and a website called www.curebum.com doesn't exactly instill confidence
ETA~ just found this article referring to Renueve

The bottom line

Dr. Richard Cawthon, who studies the link between telomeres and disease at the University of Utah School of Medicine in Salt Lake City, says he would love to take an anti-aging supplement, but he's not willing to part with several thousand dollars for TA-65. "Even if I could afford it, it's still too early in the research," he says. The benefits for now are unclear, he adds, and there's still the possibility of undesirable side effects.

As for Reneuve, "that's nonsense," says Peter Hornsby, professor of physiology at the Barshop Institute for Longevity and Aging Studies at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio. Any enzyme in the supplement would be quickly broken down in the digestive system, he says.

Research with mice suggests that telomerase is a double-edged enzyme. A study published in the journal Nature last month showed that activating telomerase seemed to reverse aging in decrepit mice that had been genetically engineered to lack a working version of the enzyme. But other studies have found that stimulating telomerase in mice raises the risk of cancer. (Patton says that, to his knowledge, no one has developed cancer while taking TA-65.)

So far, TA-65 has been tested in just one published study (which is still one more than Reneuve). This year, Geron Corp. researchers reported in the journal Rejuvenation Research that TA-65 boosted the activity of telomerase in 114 people who took the supplement for a year. The supplements also seemed to lengthen the telomeres of some immune system cells.

Still, Hornsby points out that a single study in a not-especially-prestigious journal doesn't come close to answering all of the questions about the anti-aging potential of TA-65. He says scientists aren't even sure that short telomeres contribute to the classic signs of growing old. They could just be byproducts of aging, not the driving force.

Hornsby sees another issue: If TA-65 is really tinkering with people's chromosomes, it should be classified as a drug. As it is, the supplement has never gone through any of the testing or Food and Drug Administration oversight required of prescription drugs.

Edited by missminni, 01 August 2011 - 06:34 PM.

[Moonlitnight]

"...and a website called www.curebum.com doesn't exactly instill confidence."


Rotflmao...


The letter is signed by someone called "Max Smile." That's probably what he has on his face when people buy this for $250 a pop. I know I would.


ETA Thanks for posting "The bottom line."

Edited by Anisor, 01 August 2011 - 06:37 PM.

[missminni]

"...and a website called www.curebum.com doesn't exactly instill confidence."


Rotflmao...


The letter is signed by someone called "Max Smile." That's probably what he has on his face when people buy this for $250 a pop. I know I would.


ETA Thanks for posting "The bottom line."

The graphics alone look like it's a scam. The language, the hype, everything but most of all the lack of information regarding ingredients and scientific study.
having red and blue food coloring identified in the ingredients only emphasized the absurdity.

As for Reneuve, "that's nonsense," says Peter Hornsby, professor of physiology at the Barshop Institute for Longevity and Aging Studies at the University of Texas
Health Science Center in San Antonio. Any enzyme in the supplement would be quickly broken down in the digestive system, he says.

[missminni]

"...and a website called www.curebum.com doesn't exactly instill confidence."


Rotflmao...


The letter is signed by someone called "Max Smile." That's probably what he has on his face when people buy this for $250 a pop. I know I would.


ETA Thanks for posting "The bottom line."

it appears this product was discussed on this forum last year....how soon we forget....lol
http://www.longecity...r-real-or-fake/

[maxwatt]

It would be less if you buy it in a larger quantity. But 98% is very expensive, regardless. Once you move to 50% and on down it gets much less expensive.
They have to use a ton of raw material to get a very small amount of product.

But some people have allergies to other compounds in astragalus, so 98% Cyclo is the better choice for them.

Yes, I know and I am one of them. I break out from it. I would have to do the 98%,
$450 a gram is .45 a mg. That would $2.25 per 5mg dose. Half the price of TA65.

I believe the $450/gm material is intended as a reference standard material for extractors to match via HPLC or other means. A misidentified or mislabeled or impure sample can be a disaster f0r a manufacturer.

[missminni]

It would be less if you buy it in a larger quantity. But 98% is very expensive, regardless. Once you move to 50% and on down it gets much less expensive.
They have to use a ton of raw material to get a very small amount of product.

But some people have allergies to other compounds in astragalus, so 98% Cyclo is the better choice for them.

Yes, I know and I am one of them. I break out from it. I would have to do the 98%,
$450 a gram is .45 a mg. That would $2.25 per 5mg dose. Half the price of TA65.

I believe the $450/gm material is intended as a reference standard material for extractors to match via HPLC or other means. A misidentified or mislabeled or impure sample can be a disaster f0r a manufacturer.

Probably. But that was the only way to sample it...to buy a gram @ $450. It''s super expensive. what do you think the the kilo price would be?

[stephen_b]

I know, i know.. it's really pie in the sky stuff considering Sierra Sciences took quite a bit of time finding telomerase activators. How can any small company do such a thing, right? Yup, to tell you the truth, I would love to be able to sub license geron's patent, rather than find something to make it obsolete. It would definitely save me quite a bit of time and money, and allow for a huge growth for TA Sciences and it's brand name. I can see many manufacturers licensing the ingredient from TA Sciences so that they can make there own formulations, and maybe even put it in sports drinks.

Funny. Hopefully some enterprising small firm will come up with something like that. Perhaps there might even be synergies with cycloastragenol.

Back to my point before I started to ramble...
To sum up... McQueen, does it matter what TA-65 is, if something else is compared to it that is then shown to have with similar telomerase activation in human red blood cells?

Here's a thought: if red blood cells hung around longer due to a telomerase activator, Hb1ac might end up being elevated just because hemoglobin would have more opportunity to get glycated. That's not a bad thing, by the way. Older cars have more dings in them. The alternative would be to have higher turnover in red blood cells.

[Moonlitnight]

May I backtrack a little off-topic. I was just reading that previous thread on the Reneuve (which makes reference to yet another previous thread on it) and I see that Niner commented on the fact that any telomerase would be inactivated by the gut enzymes. It got me thinking again about geranylgeranylacetone (teprenone) which has purportedly been clinically shown to "protect the caps" of telomeres. I'll do some more reading on this as I haven't read anything about the MO yet. This drug is commonly prescribed in Japan for stomach ulcers. In France, during the '90s, Sederma patented it for use in skincare preparations "to protect telomeres." It has recently become available under licence and is appearing in a few skincare preps such as Cosmesis' DNA Repair Cream, CSI Fine Lines and others. My interest lies in its use as an oral drug. If anyone here knows that this has been discussed before, please shout. I entered the term "Reneuve" into the search box and it came up with nothing, so I don't think my search skills are as good as they should be. TIA

ETA This could of course relate solely to the telomeres of skin cells... I also came across this, saying that teprenone induces apoptosis of cancer cells:

2) Cell Struct Funct. 1999 Jun;24(3):161-8. “Geranylgeranylacetone induces apoptosis in HL-60 cells”. Okada S, Yabuki M, Kanno T, Hamazaki K, Yoshioka T, Yasuda T, Horton AA, Utsumi K. Department of Cell Chemistry, Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, Okayama University Medical School, Japan http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10462178

Edited by Anisor, 01 August 2011 - 09:32 PM.

[missminni]

May I backtrack a little off-topic. I was just reading that previous thread on the Reneuve (which makes reference to yet another previous thread on it) and I see that Niner commented on the fact that any telomerase would be inactivated by the gut enzymes. It got me thinking again about geranylgeranylacetone (teprenone) which has purportedly been clinically shown to "protect the caps" of telomeres. I'll do some more reading on this as I haven't read anything about the MO yet. This drug is commonly prescribed in Japan for stomach ulcers. In France, during the '90s, Sederma patented it for use in skincare preparations "to protect telomeres." It has recently become available under licence and is appearing in a few skincare preps such as Cosmesis' DNA Repair Cream, CSI Fine Lines and others. My interest lies in its use as an oral drug. If anyone here knows that this has been discussed before, please shout. I entered the term "Reneuve" into the search box and it came up with nothing, so I don't think my search skills are as good as they should be. TIA

ETA This could of course relate solely to the telomeres of skin cells... I also came across this, saying that teprenone induces apoptosis of cancer cells:

2) Cell Struct Funct. 1999 Jun;24(3):161-8. "Geranylgeranylacetone induces apoptosis in HL-60 cells". Okada S, Yabuki M, Kanno T, Hamazaki K, Yoshioka T, Yasuda T, Horton AA, Utsumi K. Department of Cell Chemistry, Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology, Okayama University Medical School, Japan http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10462178

it was discussed as a cream here: http://www.longecity...with-teprenone/
sounds interesting....I'm going to try it....

[Moonlitnight]

OK, I am having search-function-dysfunction. I am searching the whole forum. Thanks again.

[Anthony_Loera]

Folks,

there has been a lot of talk here about telomeres, and telomerase... but without a telomere measurment baseline, it would be difficult for anyone to consider what is actually happening to their health and their body.

Well here is a great option:
Pete Estep Ph.D. is the CEO and Chief Scientific Officer of TeloMe, Inc., a telomere analysis and engineering biotech company he cofounded with Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School, and head of the Personal Genome Project. He has sent an email informing me know that the Personal Genome Project (http://www.personalgenomes.org/) is doing free gene sequencing and telomere measurments at Harvard.

Although there is bit of a backlog, I believe it would be a great opportunity for folks here as well as our RevGenetics customers to consider so that they can inform themselves about their genes and present telomere measurments by participating and helping advance this project. I was quite excited when he told me about this, as many people had asked me where they could get tested regarding telomeres without selling a kidney.

I am actually signing up myself, as I do find this work important.

I hope many here consider it, while the participation is open and the tests are free.

Oh, and did I already mention telomere testing was free as well?
Ok, just wanted to make sure you heard that a couple of times...


Cheers!
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 03 August 2011 - 06:01 AM.

[ymc]

Folks,

there has been a lot of talk here about telomeres, and telomerase... but without a telomere measurment baseline, it would be difficult for anyone to consider what is actually happening to their health and their body.

But is there really a substance that can lengthen telomere length in a published study? So far, even TA-65/Cycloastragenol can't do that.

[GreenPower]

Folks,

there has been a lot of talk here about telomeres, and telomerase... but without a telomere measurment baseline, it would be difficult for anyone to consider what is actually happening to their health and their body.

Well here is a great option:
Pete Estep Ph.D. is the CEO and Chief Scientific Officer of TeloMe, Inc., a telomere analysis and engineering biotech company he cofounded with Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School, and head of the Personal Genome Project. He has sent an email informing me know that the Personal Genome Project (http://www.personalgenomes.org/) is doing free gene sequencing and telomere measurments at Harvard.

Although there is bit of a backlog, I believe it would be a great opportunity for folks here as well as our RevGenetics customers to consider so that they can inform themselves about their genes and present telomere measurments by participating and helping advance this project. I was quite excited when he told me about this, as many people had asked me where they could get tested regarding telomeres without selling a kidney.

I am actually signing up myself, as I do find this work important.

I hope many here consider it, while the participation is open and the tests are free.

Oh, and did I already mention telomere testing was free as well?
Ok, just wanted to make sure you heard that a couple of times...


Cheers!
A

A very interesting project. Here's an "easy to read" article from Wired about it: http://www.wired.com...h?currentPage=2

But where on their site does it say they measure the telomere lengths and on which types of cells?

[Anthony_Loera]

But where on their site does it say they measure the telomere lengths and on which types of cells?

From an email this morning:

Hi Anthony,

The PGP is focused on saliva-based telomere tests and that will be a primary focus of TeloMe as well. DNA in saliva comes primarily from white blood cells, not from epithelial cells as many people think. The reason we're focused on saliva is that it allows simple and non-invasive self-collection of samples via mail.

Best,
Pete

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 03 August 2011 - 02:38 PM.

[missminni]

Folks,

there has been a lot of talk here about telomeres, and telomerase... but without a telomere measurment baseline, it would be difficult for anyone to consider what is actually happening to their health and their body.

Well here is a great option:
Pete Estep Ph.D. is the CEO and Chief Scientific Officer of TeloMe, Inc., a telomere analysis and engineering biotech company he cofounded with Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School, and head of the Personal Genome Project. He has sent an email informing me know that the Personal Genome Project (http://www.personalgenomes.org/) is doing free gene sequencing and telomere measurments at Harvard.

Although there is bit of a backlog, I believe it would be a great opportunity for folks here as well as our RevGenetics customers to consider so that they can inform themselves about their genes and present telomere measurments by participating and helping advance this project. I was quite excited when he told me about this, as many people had asked me where they could get tested regarding telomeres without selling a kidney.

I am actually signing up myself, as I do find this work important.

I hope many here consider it, while the participation is open and the tests are free.

Oh, and did I already mention telomere testing was free as well?
Ok, just wanted to make sure you heard that a couple of times...


Cheers!
A

I started the application process...which was basically a test on how well you read the material...when I realized that one of the many risks of being involved in this study was that
"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
It's a risk they felt was important enough to mention twice as questions in their application exam to make sure you understand that this is possible. This is a bit of turn-off...no?
ETA~
Anthony...what's happening with your astrofruit product...when do you think it will be available?

Edited by missminni, 03 August 2011 - 05:11 PM.

[hav]

...
Well here is a great option:
Pete Estep Ph.D. is the CEO and Chief Scientific Officer of TeloMe, Inc., a telomere analysis and engineering biotech company he cofounded with Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School, and head of the Personal Genome Project. He has sent an email informing me know that the Personal Genome Project (http://www.personalgenomes.org/) is doing free gene sequencing and telomere measurments at Harvard.
...

Thanks so much for posting that. Just started working through their admission test study materials. Wow, they require a 100% score for admission. I'm not in the medical field so allot of the details are new to me. Already read through their consent forms online but couldn't find any info on their eligibility requirements. Well I should learn allot, anyway.

I see that they have id's for 1,400 participants online as of now with a goal of getting 100,000. I also noticed they seem to have some interest in musical abilities like the pitch and interval recognition. Maybe I'll do better if they test for that.

Here's a link to one of the online genetic data files. ... I hope that the filename is an uploading error by the participant. And that by the time I finish studying I'll be able to figure out what the contents mean. Is telomere length in there some where? I hope they're testing for that.

I see someone I grew up with, Esther Dyson, is part of the initial PGP-10 group; I'm guessing she's steered some money their way. Hope I can get in.

Howard

[missminni]

...
Well here is a great option:
Pete Estep Ph.D. is the CEO and Chief Scientific Officer of TeloMe, Inc., a telomere analysis and engineering biotech company he cofounded with Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School, and head of the Personal Genome Project. He has sent an email informing me know that the Personal Genome Project (http://www.personalgenomes.org/) is doing free gene sequencing and telomere measurments at Harvard.
...

Thanks so much for posting that. Just started working through their admission test study materials. Wow, they require a 100% score for admission. I'm not in the medical field so allot of the details are new to me. Already read through their consent forms online but couldn't find any info on their eligibility requirements. Well I should learn allot, anyway.

I see that they have id's for 1,400 participants online as of now with a goal of getting 100,000. I also noticed they seem to have some interest in musical abilities like the pitch and interval recognition. Maybe I'll do better if they test for that.

Here's a link to one of the online genetic data files. ... I hope that the filename is an uploading error by the participant. And that by the time I finish studying I'll be able to figure out what the contents mean. Is telomere length in there some where? I hope they're testing for that.

I see someone I grew up with, Esther Dyson, is part of the initial PGP-10 group; I'm guessing she's steered some money their way. Hope I can get in.

Howard

Since you mentioned that you were working on the study material I wanted to point out something that I think is very important to consider before taking part in this.
It's in the risks and benefits portion and they actually ask about it in the true and false test questions twice ... just to make sure you fully comprehend it....I thought the answer was false until
I realized I kept failing the test because it is in fact TRUE.
"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
This statement is TRUE!
For me this killed the deal...but maybe for others they don't see it as anything bad.
Because it was not that apparent when I first read the material (I tend to scan read) I wanted to point it out to others who might miss it too.

[niner]

"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
This statement is TRUE!
For me this killed the deal...but maybe for others they don't see it as anything bad.

Well, it's like a lot of things that involve the phrase "is possible". It's technically true, like it's possible that the moon landing was faked or the sun won't rise in the east tomorrow. Still, the idea of an army of clone-niners is attractive...

Edited by niner, 04 August 2011 - 05:41 PM.

[missminni]

"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
This statement is TRUE!
For me this killed the deal...but maybe for others they don't see it as anything bad.

Well, it's like a lot of things that involve the phrase "is possible". It's technically true, like it's possible that the moon landing was faked or the sun won't rise in the east tomorrow. Still, the idea of an army of clone-niners is attractive...

Hilarious.
But on a serious note...they do make a point of mentioning it twice in a very short test of 9 questions.
Why mention it twice if it is as unlikely as the sun not rising?

[niner]

"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
This statement is TRUE!
For me this killed the deal...but maybe for others they don't see it as anything bad.

Well, it's like a lot of things that involve the phrase "is possible". It's technically true, like it's possible that the moon landing was faked or the sun won't rise in the east tomorrow. Still, the idea of an army of clone-niners is attractive...

Hilarious.
But on a serious note...they do make a point of mentioning it twice in a very short test of 9 questions.
Why mention it twice if it is as unlikely as the sun not rising?

I agree that these things are not as unlikely as the sun not rising. I was wondering about all the test-taking. I think the whole thing is designed to collect a unique subset of people. They would have to be really interested in science and health, and probably would be quite a bit smarter than average. These statements about possible nefarious uses of our data might be designed to weed out people who might freak out later and demand that they destroy their data or something bothersome like that. Hmm... I could spin a diabolical conspiracy theory out of all this, speaking of clone armies and above average intelligence...

[Moonlitnight]

Well, I for one would love to participate...they can clone me all over the place so long as I know how long my telomeres are. I live in Canada though so can't get tested.

[missminni]

"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
This statement is TRUE!
For me this killed the deal...but maybe for others they don't see it as anything bad.

Well, it's like a lot of things that involve the phrase "is possible". It's technically true, like it's possible that the moon landing was faked or the sun won't rise in the east tomorrow. Still, the idea of an army of clone-niners is attractive...

Hilarious.
But on a serious note...they do make a point of mentioning it twice in a very short test of 9 questions.
Why mention it twice if it is as unlikely as the sun not rising?

I agree that these things are not as unlikely as the sun not rising. I was wondering about all the test-taking. I think the whole thing is designed to collect a unique subset of people. They would have to be really interested in science and health, and probably would be quite a bit smarter than average. These statements about possible nefarious uses of our data might be designed to weed out people who might freak out later and demand that they destroy their data or something bothersome like that. Hmm... I could spin a diabolical conspiracy theory out of all this, speaking of clone armies and above average intelligence...

Hmm is right. Why make the testing so vigorous? You'd think that if it's just data their seeking they would want all sorts to participate...not just the above average intelligent scientifically minded.
And having that risk mentioned twice in one 9 question exam is really odd. Kind of like there's no way you couldn't be aware of it...so as to eliminate any liability if it should happen. Sounds more likely than not.

[hav]

"It is possible that someone could use your DNA or cells to falsely implicate you in improper activities or pursue unexpected reproductive uses of your cells including production of human clones".
This statement is TRUE!
For me this killed the deal...but maybe for others they don't see it as anything bad.
Because it was not that apparent when I first read the material (I tend to scan read) I wanted to point it out to others who might miss it too.

Personally, my feeling is that if Harvard uses due care and protects my privacy as diligently as they promise to, that there's greater risk of my DNA falling into the wrong hands when I put out the trash or eat in a public place. But, then again, it might depend on one's definition of "wrong hands." How about the Raelian sect or their company Clonaid? Seriously, however, laws and notions of privacy could change and police might some day be able to routinely search DNA databases for leads. Guess I got mixed feelings about that possibility but I'm still interested in participating.

Note that if they are trying to use informed consent to limit liability for negligence, that probably won't work any better than it does in the operating room.

Howard