2189 replies to this topic

[Guest Tele]

What I hope will chime in + above poster thoughts... is really long term users of T-65 compound, ... which seems to be available here for cheaper:

http://www.finlandia...-capsules).html
(link to compound of exact T-65 @ $80 US)


Are people really growing dark hair?
Bones and breath stronger?


What is going on? This stuff is out .. what since 2008?

but... it was $20,000 ok... so maybe not enough time to know if works good.+

[Guest Tele]

What I hope will chime in + above poster thoughts... is really long term users of T-65 compound, ... which seems to be available here for cheaper:

http://www.finlandia...-capsules).html
(link to compound of exact T-65 @ $80 US)


Are people really growing dark hair?
Bones and breath stronger?


What is going on? This stuff is out .. what since 2008?

but... it was $20,000 ok... so maybe not enough time to know if works good.+

BTW I propose... If this is all good and T-65 is perfect... then someone needs to work with China partners to get Astrag. + C. mix ... and work out cheaper compound ... like we need 30 pills for $30. The mixes are out there... but nobody is really forging ahead.

I see lots of video tv news on benefits. Is this good?

[AdamI]

What I hope will chime in + above poster thoughts... is really long term users of T-65 compound, ... which seems to be available here for cheaper:

http://www.finlandia...-capsules).html
(link to compound of exact T-65 @ $80 US)


Are people really growing dark hair?
Bones and breath stronger?


What is going on? This stuff is out .. what since 2008?

but... it was $20,000 ok... so maybe not enough time to know if works good.+

You can check out youtube videos that Dr. Ed park has done, then you will get a good insight. And yes that hair turn grey to dark after TA-65 is true.
That Finlandia stuff don't seem like a good idea. If it do have TA-65 particles then it's at very low quantaties at that price.
You know 1 part of 10 000 of the astragalus plant contain the particle that they use in TA-65. That is why it's soo expensive. At lease according to Dr. Ed park....
Even if you would take 10 000 kg potato and turn that into 1 kg of some tablett it would be expensive right:)?
Don't think anyone has learn how to produce it artificially yet. Perhpas some DNA scientist could DNA engineer som other plant or engineer the Astragalus plant to produce more of the substance in the future.

[Hebbeh]

Everyone seems to be very familiar with TA-65, the cost to get the supplement and the actives but how familiar are you with TS-X? This is the supplement I have chosen for many reasons; cost included. The supplement uses Astragaloside IV 10 mg w/enzymes to create Cycloastragenol - which to my understanding is twice the amount you get in TA-65 capsules. It also utilizes Bacosides and Bacosides equivalent of 800 mg through 80-1 concentrate as well as a broad range of antioxidants to protect the actives as well as our telomeres from oxidative stress.

You may not be familiar with it because it just became available to consumers in Feb 2012. I want to thank this group for your expertise. I have used this topic as a way for me to study and become more knowledgable so that I can better assist my clients in regenerating health naturally! To staying young and vibrant for life. Dani

How do you know the enzymes get 100% conversion of the A4 to cycloastragenol (or any % conversion, for that matter)? Also, it is my understanding that TA-65 isn't just plain cycloastragenol. Personally, I've come to question how big of a benefit telomerase activators really are in the big scheme of things for most of us. Besides telomerase is so yesterday...C60 is where it's at.

[niner]

How do you know the enzymes get 100% conversion of the A4 to cycloastragenol (or any % conversion, for that matter)? Also, it is my understanding that TA-65 isn't just plain cycloastragenol. Personally, I've come to question how big of a benefit telomerase activators really are in the big scheme of things for most of us. Besides telomerase is so yesterday...C60 is where it's at.

Good questions. Particularly regarding any % conversion. This is yet another MLM product, so consider it with a major grain of salt. I wonder how long it will take the MLMers to get into the C60 biz? We probably shouldn't give them ideas...

[Kevnzworld]

Niner wrote "
Good questions. Particularly regarding any % conversion. This is yet another MLM product, so consider it with a major grain of salt. I wonder how long it will take the MLMers to get into the C60 biz? We probably shouldn't give them ideas..."

Funny you mention that. Recently I was approached with an offer to invest money into a company ran buy a guy who supposedly bought some russian patents, and has developed a C60/omega 3 product in conjunction with a prominent scientist. It can be used both orally and topically supposedly. The idea, if I remember correctly, is that by attaching C60 to the omega oil, cellular absorbtion is enhanced.
They have visions of home shopping network promotions and who knows. I kept my checkbook in my pocket.

[GreenPower]

What I hope will chime in + above poster thoughts... is really long term users of T-65 compound, ... which seems to be available here for cheaper:

http://www.finlandia...-capsules).html
(link to compound of exact T-65 @ $80 US)


Are people really growing dark hair?
Bones and breath stronger?


What is going on? This stuff is out .. what since 2008?

but... it was $20,000 ok... so maybe not enough time to know if works good.+

On the label of the bottle it says it contains abount 35 mg of AIV. Please note that the only two published results from using AIV in this thread indicates shortening of telomeres, not extension.

[Logic]

With 5mg of Cycloastragenol, 25mg of Astragaloside IV and 250 mg of Astragalus membranaceus 20:1 PE is product looks really interesting for an excellent price.

Does anyone have any experience with Revital-TA or the company selling it?

MEDICINAL INGREDIENTS:
A-100S (SM Cycloastragenol Sulphate)............................................................5 mg
Astragaloside IV............................................................................................25 mg
Colostrum 30% IgG........................................................................................50 mg
Saccharomyces Cerevisiaeextract (P43).........................................................10 mg
L-Carnosine...................................................................................................35 mg
L-Histidine....................................................................................................55 mg
L-Alanine......................................................................................................55 mg
L-Glutamine..................................................................................................55 mg
L-Glycine.......................................................................................................55 mg
Aspartic Acid.................................................................................................45 mg
Placenta extract............................................................................................25 mg
Nucleic Acid (RNA)........................................................................................25 mg
Astragalus membranaceus 20:1 PE...............................................................250 mg

[AdamI]

I tried some 3 bottles during a short time, doubt it had any effect.
And as far as I know it's just BS.
But thought I tried it since noone had tried it yet... and as some people pointed out to me before I bought it was that the price just don't match up with the cyclo content. It's impossible to produce Cyclo(TA-65) particle in any other way than extract it from astragalus plant, ant that plant only have 1 of 10 000 part of the particle in it. Soo if you do the math it's impossible make it that cheap that REvital-TA, or finlandia claim they can....

[Logic]

Thx Adaml

I'll try to contact the manufacturer and ask em about that point.

[Guest Tele]

Frankly, my review of posters here is most views are purely anecdotal evidence.

T-65 product from the company looks REALLY promising. What if third parties can mimic the compound and create alternatives? Someone earlier tested T-65 and it is simply mostly the Extract of Astragalus. Third-Parties in China sell the 98% extract (same thing), which is pure and clean and does the job.

Why is people poo-pooing on others? Most folks cannot pay hundreds per month for pills... so something lesser expensive which is approximately the same might be good?

But, still too early to prove anything and should not be reason to jump into this without more true people coming forward with results.

[Turnbuckle]

5. How would a "reset" of damaged DNA in the mitochondria occur? If it's damaged I assume there's no blueprint stored inside the cell which would could be used in order to correct damages to it?

Since mtDNA has no telomeres, it is not directly effected by telomerase, however, the mitochondria are under the control and support of the nuclear DNA, so poor health of the nuclear DNA will reflect in the mitochondria. As for repair of mtDNA, mitochondria divide frequently and are eliminated just a frequently. For the average cell with a thousand or so mitochondria, a sub-population of well functioning mitochondria in an otherwise healthy cell will presumably come to dominate over the others, assuming there is a functioning selection process marking defective mitochondria for autophagy.

The turnover process is still in the speculative stage, but without some selection mechanism for dysfunctional mitochondria, cells would age a lot faster than they do.

Oxidative stress is inseparably linked to mitochondrial dysfunction, as mitochondria are both generators of and targets for reactive species. Mitochondrial turnover is dependent on autophagy, which declines with age and is frequently dysfunctional in neurodegenerative diseases. The cross-talk between autophagy, redox signalling and mitochondrial dysfunction is not well understood.

Source: Autophagy, mitochondria and oxidative stress: cross-talk and redox signalling

Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 July 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Guest Tele]

Thank you above poster to reply to a January thread.

But isn't the real imptuts... The Real Value... of this thread about extending live?

[Turnbuckle]

Thank you above poster to reply to a January thread.

But isn't the real imptuts... The Real Value... of this thread about extending live?

Indirectly, Guest Tele. The OP was about using telomerase activators to extend telomeres, which people hope will extend lives. But there are two DNA systems in the body, the nDNA and the mtDNA, and only the nDNA has telomeres. I take astragalus because it seems to do something for me, and because GreenPower's tests on his own nDNA that showed that astragulus had a postitive impact on telomere length, but I'm also focusing on the mtDNA, where a different approach is required. It's important to do both, because if either DNA system decays, the body decays.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 20 July 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[johnross47]

What do you suggest. From my reading on longecity it seems fairly likely that mitochondria are important, but what can we do to improve their functioning etc.?

[Turnbuckle]

What do you suggest. From my reading on longecity it seems fairly likely that mitochondria are important, but what can we do to improve their functioning etc.?

Have you noticed all the threads on C60? From my own experience with it, it's difficult to imagine how it works except by reversing mitochondrial deficiency. In addition there is PQQ, which is supposed to promote mitochondrial biosynthesis, and co-supplements like CoQ10. And also ALCAR and ALA, which promote mitophagy--important because you have to get rid of dysfunctional mitochondria.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 20 July 2012 - 11:39 PM.

[Logic]

I'd be very interested to see your stack Turnbuckle.
You seem to be taking Astragalus and C60oo and AGE blockers etc.
ie: All the really interesting stuff!
Do you have it posted?

[Turnbuckle]

I'd be very interested to see your stack Turnbuckle.
You seem to be taking Astragalus and C60oo and AGE blockers etc.
ie: All the really interesting stuff!
Do you have it posted?

Right, I'm taking all of those. I first got interested in supplements forty years ago after reading about the orthomolecular theories of Abram Hoffer. Today at the age of 60 I'm more interested in aging, which I see as having DNA and protein components, with the two types of DNA (mtDNA and nDNA) suffering both genetic and epigenetic damage, and with mis-folding and cross-linking of proteins all contributing. I haven't posted all what I take, but maybe I ought to. It would at least make me organize it more coherently.

As for theories of aging, I rank the mitochondrial theory first only because my own mitochondria were damaged by stupidly going to a doctor for blood pressure and even more stupidly taking the mitochondrial poisons she prescribed for cholesterol. Thus I have a high opinion of supplements like PQQ and C60/EVOO, which reversed that damage. In fact, C60 didn't just reverse it. Over the years I'd developed an intolerance to alcohol, which to me indicated liver dysfunction. Three months after first mixing up a batch of C60 I now have a greater tolerance for alcohol than I ever did. Those pictures of beautiful rat livers in the paper that got this started--those are real.

[Logic]

We'r hijacking the tread Turnbuckle.

What with C60 & C70 and Astra's for DNA RNA protection/growth, and AGE blockers (breakers?) etc; You are pretty much on the bleading edge of LE with supplements.

Plz do post yor stack!

[Turnbuckle]

Wouldn't it be great if astragalus would protect mitochondria in addition to lengthening the telomeres of nuclear DNA? This paper says just that--

The present study shows that APS [Astragalus polysaccharides] inhibit mitochondrial injury and swelling and also had significant ROS scavenging effect....From the standpoint of health and longevity, our results indicate that APS may protect mitochondria from oxidative damage. Moreover, APS notably increase the activities of the antioxidases. In conclusion, APS would have a beneficial effect on protecting mitochondria while maintaining efficient cellular metabolism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....90/?tool=pubmed

[niner]

There have been a number of papers recently showing the negative effect of "stress" on telomere length. This might be related to oxidative damage to telomeric DNA. The telomeric repeats are particularly susceptible to oxidative damage, and at least some of the DNA damage repair machinery doesn't work on telomeres. Perhaps related to this, telomerase itself also has an antioxidant activity, according to a paper that was recently posted here. Although antioxidants wouldn't be expected to extend telomeres, maintaining a low ROS nuclear environment should be beneficial to keeping telomeres as long as possible.

[Turnbuckle]

There have been a number of papers recently showing the negative effect of "stress" on telomere length. This might be related to oxidative damage to telomeric DNA. The telomeric repeats are particularly susceptible to oxidative damage, and at least some of the DNA damage repair machinery doesn't work on telomeres. Perhaps related to this, telomerase itself also has an antioxidant activity, according to a paper that was recently posted here. Although antioxidants wouldn't be expected to extend telomeres, maintaining a low ROS nuclear environment should be beneficial to keeping telomeres as long as possible.

Exactly. Lengthening telomeres is half the equation. There should also be a regime of supplements that block telomere erosion, and other supplements that act as cofactors.

Magnesium (a factor in reducing oxidative stress) is one of those supplements.

This paper [Correcting magnesium deficiencies may prolong life] finds a connection between the more rapid aging experienced on the ISS and low magnesium levels that impact both mitochondria and telomere length.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 22 July 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[johnross47]

What do you suggest. From my reading on longecity it seems fairly likely that mitochondria are important, but what can we do to improve their functioning etc.?

Have you noticed all the threads on C60? From my own experience with it, it's difficult to imagine how it works except by reversing mitochondrial deficiency. In addition there is PQQ, which is supposed to promote mitochondrial biosynthesis, and co-supplements like CoQ10. And also ALCAR and ALA, which promote mitophagy--important because you have to get rid of dysfunctional mitochondria.

I've read some the C60 threads, but I remember the enormous hype over resveratrol and the claimed/assumed mechanism involveds. Excitement on this thread has also come and gone a few times. There do seem to be some potential benefits to cycloastragenol, and possibly to the herbal extracts but we still lack good long term studies of astragalus in larger mammals, or even large scale long studies in normal mice.

[tintinet]

What do you suggest. From my reading on longecity it seems fairly likely that mitochondria are important, but what can we do to improve their functioning etc.?

Have you noticed all the threads on C60? From my own experience with it, it's difficult to imagine how it works except by reversing mitochondrial deficiency. In addition there is PQQ, which is supposed to promote mitochondrial biosynthesis, and co-supplements like CoQ10. And also ALCAR and ALA, which promote mitophagy--important because you have to get rid of dysfunctional mitochondria.

I've read some the C60 threads, but I remember the enormous hype over resveratrol and the claimed/assumed mechanism involveds. Excitement on this thread has also come and gone a few times. There do seem to be some potential benefits to cycloastragenol, and possibly to the herbal extracts but we still lack good long term studies of astragalus in larger mammals, or even large scale long studies in normal mice.

Ah, the voice of reason! No fun at all!

[johnross47]

I could be a party-pooping killjoy about epitalon as well for the same reasons. I'm following all those threads with all the hopeful enthusiasm appropriate to my 65 years. I've tried cycloastragenol and astragalus extract. My hair hasn't gone back to black but I do have some wonderfully vivid high colour dreams, and feel generally better healthwise, though of course that could just as easily be a result of using cron-o-meter to control my diet.

Edited by johnross47, 22 July 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[jwilde]

Hi all,

This thread was just brought to my attention. It was suggested (several pages ago) that Terraternal was affiliated with CrackAging because of the similarity in images and text between our sites. In fact they stole our images and text. Being based in China, it is difficult to go after them.

According to Intertek, they even stole our Certificate of Analysis for cycloastragenol and photoshoped in their name, a fact that can be verified with Douglas Nickelson from Intertek. If anyone has any further questions, please feel free to contact me any time at jwilde@terraternal.com.

Jeff
Terraternal

[Immortalis]

Hi,
I've been trying to get as much info on Crackaging.com / astraglaxo.com. So far no customers have come forward. There is a confusion in general where Terraternal and Crackaging.com / astraglaxo.com have been thought of as one and the same. Even Anthony Lorea of Revgenetics thought they were the same company. I have spoken to Jeff from Terraternal and David from Crackaging.com. Both say the companies are two seperate entities. What terraternal have to say about Crackaging is the above by jeff. Myself I have spoken to Douglas Nickelson QA/QC Manager of Intertek, and I questioned about the Certificate of Anaysis issue. I was told "I can tell you that there has been a falsified Intertek/AAC Labs C of A with this company’s name on it being shown about so be careful if you get a Intertek/AAC Labs C of A with their name on it. "


Crackaging themselves have not provided me with an Intertek CoA. The fact a forged Intertek CoA has been confirmed does not necessarily mean Crackaging themselves forged the CoA. But I'm guessing to get further to bottom of this would be by finding out who the customer with the forged CoA is and if he/she himself made the purchase from Crackaging website.
The CoAs Crackaging provided me were from their own lab. I have asked for CoAs from an outside source and have been told they will soon have Intertek CoAs. I am awaiting these CoAs now.

Edited by Immortalis, 24 July 2012 - 10:58 PM.

[neuropill]

So I can't find Astragaloside IV on RevGenetics website so I'm guessing they stopped making it. Where is everyone getting it now? Or Cycloastragenol for that matter?

[Immortalis]

So I can't find Astragaloside IV on RevGenetics website so I'm guessing they stopped making it. Where is everyone getting it now? Or Cycloastragenol for that matter?

Have you tried Terraternal.com ?

They have both available.

[neuropill]

So I can't find Astragaloside IV on RevGenetics website so I'm guessing they stopped making it. Where is everyone getting it now? Or Cycloastragenol for that matter?

Have you tried Terraternal.com ?

They have both available.

I've seen that site. Generally i prefer to review a few options and I'm curious why Revgenetics pulled it.