2189 replies to this topic

[marcobjj]

Shinobi, what are the values in miligrams?

[balance]

Well, maybe telomere are actually a very... very small factor of aging... this is why mice died even earlier when supplementing with TA65. Anyway I tested the TA65 and result HPLC was: astragalosides: 6.80%, cyclo 4,15%, astragalosid IV: 3,12%. I will test the mesh size as well to know if it micronized

Hey Shinobi, with test do you mean that you checked what a single TA65 capsule consisted of and those are your results? If so, what implications does that have as to its efficacy as compared to a 50mg cycloastragenol capsule? I'm dying to know whether it's better to take cyclo or TA-65.

[Logic]

Well, maybe telomere are actually a very... very small factor of aging... this is why mice died even earlier when supplementing with TA65. Anyway I tested the TA65 and result HPLC was: astragalosides: 6.80%, cyclo 4,15%, astragalosid IV: 3,12%. I will test the mesh size as well to know if it micronized

Very interesting. Thx Shinobi.
This means that only 14.07% of the capsule consists of the usual Astragalus based telomerase activation suspects.
This begs the question; what does the other 85.93% consist off???

14% is a very small percentage, so at a guess there must be other telomerase activators in it or things that slow the rate of telomere shortening like vit C, E etc.
It seems unlikely that the other 86% is just filler?

Edited by Logic, 30 June 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[smithx]

If someone would like to send me a TA65 capsule I can have it analyzed with GC/MS and if the compounds in it are in the rather large database the system has, we will know what's in it.

PM me if you have a capsule and would like me to analyze it.

Another interesting study recently out:

http://mcb.asm.org/c...21/MCB.00136-13

We elongated the telomeres of human prostate cancer cells that possess short telomeres by enhancing their telomerase activity. The resulting cells had long telomeres and retained the ability to form tumors in nude mice. Strikingly, these tumors exhibited many duct-like structures and reduced N-cadherin expression, reminiscent of well-differentiated adenocarcinoma. These changes were caused by telomere elongation and not by enhanced telomerase activity. Gene expression profiling revealed that tumor formation was accompanied by the expression of innate immune system-related genes, which have been implicated in maintaining tumor cells in an undifferentiated state and poor prognosis cancers. In tumors derived from the telomere-elongated cells, upregulation of such gene sets is not observed. Our observations suggest a functional contribution of short telomeres to tumor malignancy by regulation of cancer cell differentiation.

So even with cancer cells, increasing telomere length may help, not be eliminating the cancer (unfortunately), but by reducing its malignancy.

[niner]

This means that only 14.07% of the capsule consists of the usual Astragalus based telomerase activation suspects.
This begs the question; what does the other 85.93% consist off???

14% is a very small percentage, so at a guess there must be other telomerase activators in it or things that slow the rate of telomere shortening like vit C, E etc.
It seems unlikely that the other 86% is just filler?

Anthony had one analyzed, and it contained 5mg cycloastragenol. There's probably 100mg of stuff in the capsule, so maybe some is other astrogalosides, but I'm pretty sure there are no vitamins or antioxidants. The rest could certainly be filler. That would be normal practice.

If someone would like to send me a TA65 capsule I can have it analyzed with GC/MS and if the compounds in it are in the rather large database the system has, we will know what's in it.

Given the size of cycloastragenol, I think you'd have a tough time with GC/MS. LC/MS would be the way to go.

[smithx]

Given the size of cycloastragenol, I think you'd have a tough time with GC/MS. LC/MS would be the way to go.

It's under 500 g/m and I think GC/MS can work up to 1000, so it might be worth a try.

But if the capsule is 100mg, then we have:

astragalosides: 6.80mg, cyclo 4,15mg, astragalosid IV: 3,12mg

This means that either it's got less than the 5mg of cycloastrogenol it's meant to have, or some other astrogaloside might be an important one. Or both.

[BobSeitz]

I just weighed a capsule of TA-65. Including the capsule, it weighs 500 mg. I don't know the weight of the capsule, so I can't calculate the weight of the TA-65 inside.

[Hebbeh]

I assume it's a size 1 capsule. A size 1 hard gelatin capsule weighs on average 6.8 mg .... or insignificant.

[marcobjj]

4% of on a 500mg capsule would be 20mg cyclo per TA65 capsule. that can't be right.

[BobSeitz]

Something doesn't compute, does it? For what it's worth, the TA-65 capsule is about the same size as other 500 mg. capsules. Hm-m-m.

[PWAIN]

Don't think you could get 500mg in a size 1 unless very heavy powder. More likely a size 0 which weight around 55mg from memory.

[Hebbeh]

Don't think you could get 500mg in a size 1 unless very heavy powder. More likely a size 0 which weight around 55mg from memory.

Very possibly could be a size 0 but it wouldn't be that much heavier...I doubt a size 0 weighs more than 10 mg tops. I think I might have some size 0 in a box from when I moved...I'll see if I can find them tonight.

[balance]

Any updates?

I'm wondering how much more potent taking Astragaloside IV 50mg + Cycloastragenol 50mg would be over taking 4 caps (32mg/1000 units) of TA-65. Less expensive that's for sure.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Well, dear friends.

I'm not happy with labs result.. Problem is that one: it's about 98% of dextrin and fillers and only few percent the active ingredient wich is clearly 8mg. And the mesh size they found is 80.. It cant be true.

I will try to isolate the active ingredient FIRST. But complicated as filelrs. If you have any idea on the process, please advice..

[aaaaaaal]

I take a product which contains 75mg Astragaloside IV, 15mg Cycloastragenol, 75mg Astragalus extract & 100mg Silymarin per capsule.

[aaaaaaal]

It also contains Resveratrol & curcumin. (There are no studies which suggest Resveratrol & Curcumi inhibit telomerase in healthy cells)

[blood]

I take a product which contains 75mg Astragaloside IV, 15mg Cycloastragenol, 75mg Astragalus extract & 100mg Silymarin per capsule.

What is the name of the product?

[aaaaaaal]

I take a product which contains 75mg Astragaloside IV, 15mg Cycloastragenol, 75mg Astragalus extract & 100mg Silymarin per capsule.

What is the name of the product?

Biospan.

More info here:

http://www.biotivia..../packaging.html

Edited by jorgepl22, 03 July 2013 - 11:58 PM.

[boylan]

I take a product which contains 75mg Astragaloside IV, 15mg Cycloastragenol, 75mg Astragalus extract & 100mg Silymarin per capsule.

What is the name of the product?

Biospan.

More info here:

http://www.biotivia..../packaging.html

I don't see 15mg Cycloastragenol listed anywhere for this product??

[Fred_CALICO]

I take a product which contains 75mg Astragaloside IV, 15mg Cycloastragenol, 75mg Astragalus extract & 100mg Silymarin per capsule.

What is the name of the product?

Biospan.

More info here:

http://www.biotivia..../packaging.html

CYCLOASTRAGENOL ???????? Not seen on the label.

Serving Size: 2 Capsules, Servings Per Container: 30.

• Resveratrol (75% Trans Isomer): 200mg
• Curcumin (95% standardized extract): 300mg
• Silymarin: 200mg
• Astragalus (20% polysaccharides): 150mg
• Astragalus (astragaloside IV): 150mg

[aaaaaaal]

I was looking for a telomerase product a few months ago, so I researched all the products, I didn't see Cycloastragenol mentioned, so I emailed them and this was their reply:

"The cycloastragenol in BioSpan is primarily concentrated in the astragaloside 4 and 5 components. We have more than any other supplement to our knowledge. It is quite an expensive compound."

I replied:

" What I wanted was a reasonable estimation for the amount of Cycloastragenol in Biospan. I did receive your email a few weeks ago but I wanted to know specifically how much Cycloastragenol I'm getting. This way I would know if I need to take an additional Cycloastregenol supplement"

I got back:

"Hi

Apologies for the delay in replying to you. I have consulted our product formulators, and they have told me that BioSpan has 15mg of Cycloastragenol per capsule.

Please let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.

Kind regards"

[balance]

"Hi

Apologies for the delay in replying to you. I have consulted our product formulators, and they have told me that BioSpan has 15mg of Cycloastragenol per capsule.

Please let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.

Kind regards"


I don't believe it.

[blood]

"Hi

Apologies for the delay in replying to you. I have consulted our product formulators, and they have told me that BioSpan has 15mg of Cycloastragenol per capsule.

Please let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.

Kind regards"


I don't believe it.

Seems like they are treating cycloastrogenol and astragalosides as interchangeable...

[aaaaaaal]

"Hi

Apologies for the delay in replying to you. I have consulted our product formulators, and they have told me that BioSpan has 15mg of Cycloastragenol per capsule.

Please let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.

Kind regards"


I don't believe it.

Feel free to contact them yourself. I'm just saying what I've been told.

[Fred_CALICO]

€ 33 for 30 capsules of 15 mg cycloastragenol.
€ 33 to 450 mg cycloastagénol.
0, 007333...€ / mg cycloastragenol.

A very very good deal!!!! If it is a reality (or real).

( réf : http://www.alibaba.c...enol-98%25.html )

[balance]

Jorgepl22, I am referring to their answer, not your post. I think they aren't fully informed as to the differences between the astragalosides and cycloastragenol and if there really would be 15mg in it and they were informed they'd market it as such, put it on the label, and skyrocket the price of Biospan.

[DorianGrey]

Finlandia (a compounding pharmacy in Canada, B.C.) has a formulation 5mg Cyclo and 35mg AS IV and Astragalus powder in the 80-90$ price range for 30 capsules. I don't think you can triple the amount of expensive ingredients, add more ingredients like Resveratrol and still make a profit.
The CofAs Biospan presents are not for assay, just antioxidative potency, some microbial purity and standard tests like heavy metal. Also, if I as a company had a competetive edge like 15mg Cyclo it would be in bold letters on top of the label, not something I need to request via email. The price is still good without the Cyclo, 75mg AS IV is a lot. Just, the bioavailability is so poor (depending on study, 2.2% to 7%) that the capsule alone won't do much. Maybe popping a 500mg Chitosan 30 minutes before this product makes it a good choice? My issue now is that there is an unverified claim on Cyclo, no assay CofA to proof any of the claims and an ineffective formulation, so I am not sure there's even 75mg AS IV. Maybe it's one of these cheaper 50% qualities?

Smithx here on the board has access to an HPLC/MS, can't Georgepl22 just send him a capsule for analysis? Even without the MS part, the Astragaloside HPLC is well established, I have a paper on the analytical method including retention times and the response factors of all these compounds should be close enough to go by area.

Edited by DorianGrey, 04 July 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[DorianGrey]

Regarding the Alibaba ads: they use the Cyclo98% more like a search term, looks to me mainly like root extracts etc. There's one guy that offers 20mg vials but doesn't have a price range posted.

[balance]

Can any qualified unbiased consumer please answer my 3 burning questions:

1. Is Astragaloside IV 100mg + Cycloastragenol 50mg far more effective than 4 caps (1000 units) of TA-65?

2. Absorption wise, Is it best to take it on an empty stomach or with some fat?

3. Is CrackAging.com reliable or is it true that they stole the CoA and are selling overpriced sand basically?

Edited by piet3r, 04 July 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[marcobjj]

1. There's no clear cut answer to that, I don't think anybody has measure telomere on the amounts you proposed to know for sure which one is more effective. In my opinion, whatever you end up doing take either Cyclo or TA65 and don't bother with AIV. Cycloastregenol is by far the most studied and proven substance.

2. The recommendation in TA65 label is to take it on an empty stomach. Dr Ed Park recommends taking it before bed with some fat.Again, no clear cut answer.

Edited by marcobjj, 09 July 2013 - 06:21 AM.