2189 replies to this topic

[hav]

Consider that substances like ta65 may be a growth factor that causes cells with longer telomeres to divide more quickly. Thereby decreasing their average telomere length over time. While either having little effect or maybe even slowing down cell division in cells with the shorter telomeres. This would make the average telomere length for the short telomere group appear to increase over time relative to the long telomere group. While not necessarily increasing the overall average telomere length. Or impacting overall cell replacement needs.

I got the idea, btw, when I was trying to imagine how both average telomere length and the percentage of critically short telomeres could decline together and I got this image of a shrinking brontosaurus in my head. Thank you Dr. Anne Elk.

Howard

The idea seem logical enough. I suppose the theory to some extent could be substantiated by measuring the Standard Deviation of the Median Telomere Lengths, which together with the MTL would be lower than before. Or am I thinking in the wrong way here?

Something like this actually happened in a rather extreme fashion when I tried using AIV in my regimen. For reference I've included an extract from the excel chart which contain all my measurements.

I seem to remember a lab report published by Anthony, which stated that TA-65 at one time contained a measurable amount of AIV. This could possible mean TA-65 to some extent might have properties similar to taking AIV.

I remember it that way too. Mostly cycloastragenol with a little a4. Also, given that one is oil soluble and the other is water soluble, they might find their way to different parts of the body so supplementing with both may not be a bad idea. But not necessarily in the same capsule. That would let you mix the a4 with chitosan without risking compromise of the absorption of the cycloastragenol which might absorb better mixed with an oil.

Howard

[GreenPower]

New cycloastrogenol product (VItaSpin is run by Anthony from RevGenetics?):
http://www.vitaspin....ings-min-4.aspx

I have three bottles left from Revgenetics. When they run out I will end this "test run" using 2x10mg capsules from Terraternal for two months.

[GreenPower]

I am 65 and have had improvements before i health and never dreams like this, which seem just like replays of my normal life but deep in the past. No sensation of dreaming, just waking up and knowing that didn't just happen, unless I am time travelling in my sleep LOL

Like I said too when taking it away from times I will sleep or when not taking it this won't happen. I may have an interesting dream dream but not those. I know some taking Epitalon report strange dreams as well. I don't know if they are the same type I have experienced but both seem to trigger changes in dreams, at least in some people.

I know some say they have sounder sleep, but for good sound sleep DHEA works pretty good especially for older people. Now why I have no clue, just call me clueless

For the last part of this last "test run" I've added two substances you might be interested in.
- Alpha Gpc, 300 Mg
- Huperzine A, 200 mg

I take them for "memory support" instead of Gingko Biloba, but taken before bedtime makes for some related effects. The dreams are not strange, but...
- It makes it possible for me to remember dreams for much longer time than usual.
- I also remember a much larger part of the dreams and can usually remember several previous dreams as well.
- The dreams are also very "clear".

After I wake up I can now spend quite some time analyzing them before they fade away.

[GreenPower]

This update to an old study is a few months old, but I can't see it's been mentioned previously in this thread. The abstract doesn't say very much. Have anyone found the full report for free?

A natural product telomerase activator as part of a health maintenance program: metabolic and cardiovascular response.
Harley CB, Liu W, Flom PL, Raffaele JM.

Abstract
A short average telomere length is associated with low telomerase activity and certain degenerative diseases. Studies in animals and with human cells confirm a causal mechanism for cell or tissue dysfunction triggered by critically short telomeres, suggesting that telomerase activation may be an approach to health maintenance. Previously, we reported on positive immune remodeling in humans taking a commercial health maintenance program, PattonProtocol-1, composed of TA-65® (a natural product-derived telomerase activator) and other dietary supplements. In over a 5-year period and an estimated 7000 person-years of use, no adverse events or effects have been attributed to TA-65 by physicians licensed to sell the product. Here we report on changes in metabolic markers measured at baseline (n=97-107 subjects) and every 3-6 months (n=27-59 subjects) during the first 12 months of study. Rates of change per year from baseline determined by a multi-level model were -3.72 mg/dL for fasting glucose (p=0.02), -1.32 mIU/mL for insulin (p=0.01), -13.2 and -11.8 mg/dL for total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) (p=0.002, p=0.002, respectively), -17.3 and -4.2 mmHg for systolic and diastolic blood pressure (p=0.007 and 0.001, respectively), and -3.6 μmole/L homocysteine (p=0.001). In a subset of individuals with bone mineral density (BMD) measured at baseline and 12 months, density increased 2.0% in the spine (p=0.003). We conclude that in addition to apparent positive immune remodeling, PattonProtocol-1 may improve markers of metabolic, bone, and cardiovascular health.

Edited by GreenPower, 03 January 2014 - 07:08 PM.

[free10]

I am 65 and have had improvements before i health and never dreams like this, which seem just like replays of my normal life but deep in the past. No sensation of dreaming, just waking up and knowing that didn't just happen, unless I am time travelling in my sleep LOL

Like I said too when taking it away from times I will sleep or when not taking it this won't happen. I may have an interesting dream dream but not those. I know some taking Epitalon report strange dreams as well. I don't know if they are the same type I have experienced but both seem to trigger changes in dreams, at least in some people.

I know some say they have sounder sleep, but for good sound sleep DHEA works pretty good especially for older people. Now why I have no clue, just call me clueless

For the last part of this last "test run" I've added two substances you might be interested in.
- Alpha Gpc, 300 Mg
- Huperzine A, 200 mg

I take them for "memory support" instead of Gingko Biloba, but taken before bedtime makes for some related effects. The dreams are not strange, but...
- It makes it possible for me to remember dreams for much longer time than usual.
- I also remember a much larger part of the dreams and can usually remember several previous dreams as well.
- The dreams are also very "clear".

After I wake up I can now spend quite some time analysing them before they fade away.

I have been taking Jarrow's GPC for a few years now, and I use to take DMAE powder, in fairly large amounts when Life Extension had it in the 80s and 90s. The stuff people are selling as DMAE the past years neither has the same effects nor are they the same taste. This is one reason I started taking the GPC, to elevate brain function. Those dreams I was having off the TA65 for a long time seems to have mostly gone away and now the more recent ones are more fantasy reality based mixes, rather than the weird replays of past normal moments decades ago. The newer ones I don't care for either, because there can be an emotional dream where which seems to disturb my sleep to the point of awakening with that emotion still running, as in the dream.

Dreams are normally just the brain sorting out daily routines and are very abstract in there symbolisms. It is just housekeeping normally. To give you an example a girl living in a bedroom next to mine one night went to bed early because when had work early the next day and I was going to continue watching TV in my bedroom. Well about 20 minutes later she comes hauling butt out of her bedroom into the hall and was running so fast she overshot my door and had to turn around and then ran in and sat down beside me wide wake but out of breath. Panicked.

I asked her calmly what was wrong, and she started telling me about this dream. She was at work and like a robber came in but it was more like a wolf and she and this guy ran out into his car, and as they are about to leave this would creature came out of no where and devoured his face and that when she woke up. She was worried it had some meaning to it and I explained the housekeeping done in dreams and asked her what she had done and watched that day, and she could think of anything related to that dream. A day or two later she remembers and tells me, that she had watched a movie that afternoon of the dingo dog who snatched the baby down in Australia..dog ...wolf..daily routine of work, and all mixed in crazy dreaming of the brains housekeeping.

People dream about 4 times a night unless schizophrenic but will remember none of them unless they wake up during them. I prefer to sleep right though mine and normally do, and can go years without remembering any in past years. I seem to be getting that way again except for some rather emotional dreaming, which is not the norm for me either. I like my sleep LOL

[free10]

An interview with Noel Patton

http://www.antiaging...meres-and-ta-65

[marcobjj]

Bill Andrews is developing more powerful herbal telomerase activators

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Im not sue this was discussed before: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16530337

Why longer telomere wouldnt mean longer lifespan ?? doesnt make sense

[Turnbuckle]

Im not sue this was discussed before: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16530337

Why longer telomere wouldnt mean longer lifespan ?? doesnt make sense

Just from reading the abstract, it seems the author fails to take into consideration other mechanisms of aging that might be even more important than telomeres--such as the aging of mitochondria.

As for his remarks about mice being short lived yet having long telomeres, shortening them should make the mice live longer by his hypothesis, but it is just the reverse--

Telomerase knockout mice (G1) are viable, with intact chromosomes, and have minor physiological abnormalities in the case of long telomeres (top image; arrow); however, with advanced age, they develop degenerative symptoms sooner than do age-matched mice with wild-type Terc. Continuous interbreeding of telomerase knockout mice leads to subsequent generations of mice (G2, G3 and so on) with telomeres of decreasing length. Mice with dysfunctional telomeres have chromosomal abnormalities (bottom image; arrows point to loss of telomere signal, resulting in fused chromosomes), and they develop multiple ageing-associated degenerative disorders in highly proliferative organs, as well as in post-mitotic tissues. Highly proliferative organs such as the intestine, skin and testes are characterized by atrophic changes indicating stem-cell-based failure. Functional decline in post-mitotic tissues (such as cardiomyopathy) and age-associated metabolic changes (such as insulin resistance) have been noted in mice with dysfunctional telomeres. Such mice have a shortened lifespan and a modest increase in cancer, in line with the role of telomeres in preventing illegitimate recombination events.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16530337

Edited by Turnbuckle, 11 January 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[DorianGrey]

Im not sue this was discussed before: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16530337

Why longer telomere wouldnt mean longer lifespan ?? doesnt make sense

The author isn't even able to give the telomer length for the whale species that's listed as an example. Was this even peer reviewed? Total garbage.

[xEva]

Bill Andrews is developing more powerful herbal telomerase activators

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB2k7ciKnTY

Here Andrews looks aged and haggard. I recall seeing him in one of the videos posted a few months ago looking much better. Is it working for him?

[marcobjj]

Im not sue this was discussed before: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16530337

Why longer telomere wouldnt mean longer lifespan ?? doesnt make sense

that's a very old study from 2006, ancient history in terms of telomere research. The study also appears to be entirely theoretical.



Blasco's experiment in 2011 is what you should read. Essentially, a single infection of a telomerase producing virus extended the lifespan of mice by 24%.

"
Telomerase gene therapy in adult and old mice delays aging and increases longevity without increasing cancer."


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22585399

Bill Andrews is developing more powerful herbal telomerase activators

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB2k7ciKnTY

Here Andrews looks aged and haggard. I recall seeing him in one of the videos posted a few months ago looking much better. Is it working for him?

he's in better shape than 99.9% of 60 something year olds. There's no product on the market currently that can reverse aging, only delay it somewhat.

Edited by marcobjj, 12 January 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[marcobjj]

View on Vimeo.

^^^^^Bill Andrews running a 26 mile race at 18.000 ft altidude in Tibet at age 62.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Just from reading the abstract, it seems the author fails to take into consideration other mechanisms of aging that might be even more important than telomeres--such as the aging of mitochondria.

As for his remarks about mice being short lived yet having long telomeres, shortening them should make the mice live longer by his hypothesis, but it is just the reverse--

Telomerase knockout mice (G1) are viable, with intact chromosomes, and have minor physiological abnormalities in the case of long telomeres (top image; arrow); however, with advanced age, they develop degenerative symptoms sooner than do age-matched mice with wild-type Terc. Continuous interbreeding of telomerase knockout mice leads to subsequent generations of mice (G2, G3 and so on) with telomeres of decreasing length. Mice with dysfunctional telomeres have chromosomal abnormalities (bottom image; arrows point to loss of telomere signal, resulting in fused chromosomes), and they develop multiple ageing-associated degenerative disorders in highly proliferative organs, as well as in post-mitotic tissues. Highly proliferative organs such as the intestine, skin and testes are characterized by atrophic changes indicating stem-cell-based failure. Functional decline in post-mitotic tissues (such as cardiomyopathy) and age-associated metabolic changes (such as insulin resistance) have been noted in mice with dysfunctional telomeres. Such mice have a shortened lifespan and a modest increase in cancer, in line with the role of telomeres in preventing illegitimate recombination events.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16530337

Indeed it's just the opposite, this is why its doesnt make sense at all.. The DNA is the code which allow cell to develop themselve properly, so more you have lenght more you should have youthfull cell..

Do you know some natural product to increase mitochondrie and also protect them ? (other than PQQ since this one i prefer take it from banana and natto) Im taking asc2p btw.. This is the only vitamin C form wich slow the aging process and can enter the cell.. normal vit c doesnt.. asc2p is really somthing people here should discuss more..

that's a very old study from 2006, ancient history in terms of telomere research. The study also appears to be entirely theoretical.



Blasco's experiment in 2011 is what you should read. Essentially, a single infection of a telomerase producing virus extended the lifespan of mice by 24%.

"
Telomerase gene therapy in adult and old mice delays aging and increases longevity without increasing cancer."


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22585399

Yes but they used synthetic way to reach that result, and very interestingly, this result was not reached using TA65... The mice even lived shorter in the TA65 group.. really strange enough

[Hebbeh]

Do you know some natural product to increase mitochondrie and also protect them ?

http://www.longecity.../415-c60health/

http://www.longecity...s/page__st__420

[marcobjj]

Yes but they used synthetic way to reach that result, and very interestingly, this result was not reached using TA65... The mice even lived shorter in the TA65 group.. really strange enough

The used a virus carrying a telomerase gene, It's a lot more powerful than TA65. TA65 scores 6 in the HeLA scale where 100 would be needed to immortalize a cell. As Noel Patton says, TA65 is an attempt to square up the aging curve, not lengthen it.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Thanks for the explanation marcobjj. Do you have more info on this test (HeLA scale) ? The thing is we still focusing on a single pathway just because of pure marketing..

[DorianGrey]

Indeed it's just the opposite, this is why its doesnt make sense at all.. The DNA is the code which allow cell to develop themselve properly, so more you have lenght more you should have youthfull cell..

Do you know some natural product to increase mitochondrie and also protect them ? (other than PQQ since this one i prefer take it from banana and natto) Im taking asc2p btw.. This is the only vitamin C form wich slow the aging process and can enter the cell.. normal vit c doesnt.. asc2p is really somthing people here should discuss more..

I heard a talk by someone who wrote his Ph.D. thesis on a telomer topic. Basically the DNA structure collapses when telomers get too short. Definitely not a good thing.

I use Asc2P (make my own capsules), about 150mg a day, taken at night so it doesn't interfer with the Vitamin C I take in multivit and as tablets (500mg quarters). Good to hear I am not the only one. It's used in some cosmetics but only one formulation for telomer protection (or mitochondrial DNA protection) has it, at 200mg label claim. I also use 5mg PQQ sublingual in the early morning, but no Q10. I don't know if 20mg would be better, but it's quite expensive and I looked at dietary intake and bioavailability, so it might be a good compromise.
I now know my average telomer length and have a rough estimate for the short telomer %, so I will be able to control there is no detrimental effect using these supplements via a future measurement. Adopting a longevity driven lifestyle probably helps (stress reduction, moderate activities), too.

Another aspect of aging I think that people neglect a bit is the dopaminergic pathway, but that's a different topic. It seems to be independent from telomer length. I am a bit on the fence regarding mitochondrial health, probably autophagy and DNA protection are your best bet at this time, it doesn't hurt to consider (same with AGEs and other theories).

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Asc2p is the best vitamin c form ever it also control the size of cell. Its strange but this form make me sleepy.. and you also take it at night
Btw, its a very versatile supplement.. it seem to do a lot of things properly, at least in vitro

5mg PQQ is very fine really.. im looking for a brand who sell only 2mg.. Since this stuff is really so powerful in terms of giving energy. Which brand do you use ?

moderate activity is fine, but: need to be stand up and walk every 30min (this is why some company like apple offer some stuff to walk even at office during work) and cardio like 2 hours a week. Also do not take vit C 2 hours before running, even after.. But far from sport, prefer to use plant based polyphenols. But you probably alread aware

[marcobjj]

Thanks for the explanation marcobjj. Do you have more info on this test (HeLA scale) ? The thing is we still focusing on a single pathway just because of pure marketing..

A HeLa cell/ˈhiːlɑː/, also Hela or hela cell, is a cell type in an immortal cell line used in scientific research. It is the oldest and most commonly used human cell line.^[1] The line was derived from cervical cancer cells taken on February 8, 1951,^[2] from Henrietta Lacks, a patient who eventually died of her cancer on October 4, 1951. The cell line was found to be remarkably durable and prolific as illustrated by its contamination of many other cell lines used in research.^[3][4]

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Thanks marco but I mean about the test done with TA65 ?

PS: im not sure an immortal cell line is a good model since we should more target others kind of cell

Edited by Shinobi, 13 January 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[DorianGrey]

Asc2p is the best vitamin c form ever it also control the size of cell. Its strange but this form make me sleepy.. and you also take it at night
Btw, its a very versatile supplement.. it seem to do a lot of things properly, at least in vitro

5mg PQQ is very fine really.. im looking for a brand who sell only 2mg.. Since this stuff is really so powerful in terms of giving energy. Which brand do you use ?

moderate activity is fine, but: need to be stand up and walk every 30min (this is why some company like apple offer some stuff to walk even at office during work) and cardio like 2 hours a week. Also do not take vit C 2 hours before running, even after.. But far from sport, prefer to use plant based polyphenols. But you probably alread aware

First I was concerned Asc2P would just degradate in gastric acid but I researched the chemistry and it turns out to be fairly stable, so mainly intracellular phosphatase will do that job. It's solubility isn't really great so I am not fully certain about good bioavailability or if that would need an improvement, just a consideration.
90mg is about the dietary recommendation for Vitamin C, so aiming for a dosing that at least delivers this quantity Asc2P seems reasonable.


Regarding the PQQ I would have probably gone 2mg as well but I only found TWINLAB BioPQQ Microtabs 20mg tablets, which I can carefully cut in quarters of about 5mg. You could only crumble the granules and use a microspatula if you want to dose lower, the stuff isn't very soluble. I've ordered either from Swansons or iHerb. I remember every other product came in capsules. This seems to be a reputable quality and is made in Japan.

Edited by DorianGrey, 13 January 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[hav]

Yes but they used synthetic way to reach that result, and very interestingly, this result was not reached using TA65... The mice even lived shorter in the TA65 group.. really strange enough

The used a virus carrying a telomerase gene, It's a lot more powerful than TA65. TA65 scores 6 in the HeLA scale where 100 would be needed to immortalize a cell.

Scaling TA65's ability to cause cervical cancer? Telomere lengthening with a lower score would be better, right?

As Noel Patton says, TA65 is an attempt to square up the aging curve, not lengthen it.

"Squaring up" the aging curve pretty accurately reflects what the telomere-length studies show.

Just remember what that means. You're holding the birth and death endpoints constant, thus no life extension. You're also lifting the midpoints up until closer to the end. Suggesting a more sudden and unexpected demise with no known markers to warn you of impending doom. Just like running your best right up until you trip over a Himalayan mountainside.

Btw, its the downward decent that always gets you, one way or another. The likely most favorable outcome is that only Dr Andrews knees will never be the same again. My own 20:20 hindsight experience from running mountain courses myself is that the longer telomeres I had in my 20's were not sufficient protection. Perhaps Dr Andrews has a Segway PT in his future.

Howard

[marcobjj]

Scaling TA65's ability to cause cervical cancer?

TA65 has an ability to cause cervical cancer? where did you read that?

Telomere lengthening with a lower score would be better, right?

The higher the score, the better, only a substance that scores 100 or higher on the scale can reverse the aging process. The idea that telomerase can somehow cause cancer is pretty dated an unproven.

Thanks marco but I mean about the test done with TA65 ?

I don't have a source for that test at the moment.

PS: im not sure an immortal cell line is a good model since we should more target others kind of cell

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, can you elaborate?

[hav]

Scaling TA65's ability to cause cervical cancer?

TA65 has an ability to cause cervical cancer? where did you read that?

Telomere lengthening with a lower score would be better, right?

The higher the score, the better, only a substance that scores 100 or higher on the scale can reverse the aging process. The idea that telomerase can somehow cause cancer is pretty dated an unproven.

From your post. HeLa cells are cervical cancer cells. Immortality is only one of their qualities. They are highly contaminating to other cells. They also have non-human dna counts. Not to mention they kill you. Comparing TA65 to the effectiveness of a cancer cell? What were they thinking?

I certainly wouldn't want to take anything that scores 100 on that scale. Maybe somewhere in the middle is optimal. All the good and none of the bad. If only someone actually knows the safe limit.

Btw, I just checked. It's not TA-65 that scored the 6. It was compound C0057684. Which also happens to be toxic. There have also been other recently identified compounds: C0313741 rated a 12. And another one is claimed to score 16. They are all toxic too. As far as I know, their cancer causing ability has not been examined yet... which might earn them a higher score.

As of now, the safe upper limit on the HeLa scale seems to be less than 6. TA65 rates itself a 3.28 on the Hela scale.

Howard

[DorianGrey]

The higher the score, the better, only a substance that scores 100 or higher on the scale can reverse the aging process. The idea that telomerase can somehow cause cancer is pretty dated an unproven.

Why is higher better? I am not sure superlong telomers have any real benefit once you are able to contain attrition.

HeLa is a cancerous cell and divides rapidly, almost once a day. Therefore the telomerase activity has to be very high. I guess bone marrow is among the tissues that regenerate fastest in human,hematopoeitic stem cells divide every few weeks. Considering the turnover rates, I guess a HeLa of 10 would be more than sufficient to slow down the telomerase aging mechanism in humans to a point where other mechanism play a more important role. Maybe 2 is already enough if the activator gets to the tissue.

In a nutshell: You have to put telomerase activity in relation to cell division.

Any idea where Silymarin scores?

Edited by DorianGrey, 13 January 2014 - 09:13 PM.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

The higher the score, the better, only a substance that scores 100 or higher on the scale can reverse the aging process. The idea that telomerase can somehow cause cancer is pretty dated an unproven.

I don't have a source for that test at the moment.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, can you elaborate?

its an immortal cell line, not a good model. I would rather use a somatic cell. I get also smile when i see Ta Science use CD4 / CD8 for their evidence of telomerase activation.. since these cells naturally have hTERT activity...

From your post. HeLa cells are cervical cancer cells. Immortality is only one of their qualities. They are highly contaminating to other cells. They also have non-human dna counts. Not to mention they kill you. Comparing TA65 to the effectiveness of a cancer cell? What were they thinking?

I certainly wouldn't want to take anything that scores 100 on that scale. Maybe somewhere in the middle is optimal. All the good and none of the bad. If only someone actually knows the safe limit.

Btw, I just checked. It's not TA-65 that scored the 6. It was compound C0057684. Which also happens to be toxic. There have also been other recently identified compounds: C0313741 rated a 12. And another one is claimed to score 16. They are all toxic too. As far as I know, their cancer causing ability has not been examined yet... which might earn them a higher score.

As of now, the safe upper limit on the HeLa scale seems to be less than 6. TA65 rates itself a 3.28 on the Hela scale.

Howard

Howard, can you send me some link please or direct full PDF if you own ?

Also take into account the natural VS synthetic ones.. since natural usually.. even fight cancer ! they act different if cancer cell or not.

[marcobjj]

The higher the score, the better, only a substance that scores 100 or higher on the scale can reverse the aging process. The idea that telomerase can somehow cause cancer is pretty dated an unproven.

I don't have a source for that test at the moment.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, can you elaborate?

its an immortal cell line, not a good model. I would rather use a somatic cell. I get also smile when i see Ta Science use CD4 / CD8 for their evidence of telomerase activation.. since these cells naturally have hTERT activity...

you'd think an immortal cell line such as HeLa is the golden standard, afterall the goal is to achieve immortality at least on a cellular level.Yes they are testing on CD4/CD8 cells.

[marcobjj]

From your post. HeLa cells are cervical cancer cells. Immortality is only one of their qualities. They are highly contaminating to other cells. They also have non-human dna counts. Not to mention they kill you. Comparing TA65 to the effectiveness of a cancer cell? What were they thinking?

I don't know what exactly you mean by "effectiveness" of a cancer cell. They're comparing the telomerase activation potential of T65. HeLa cells have been used in research for 60+ years.

I certainly wouldn't want to take anything that scores 100 on that scale. Maybe somewhere in the middle is optimal. All the good and none of the bad

what "bad"? there's never been a study proving that telomerase causes cancer.

Edited by marcobjj, 14 January 2014 - 04:58 AM.

[marcobjj]

The higher the score, the better, only a substance that scores 100 or higher on the scale can reverse the aging process. The idea that telomerase can somehow cause cancer is pretty dated an unproven.

Why is higher better? I am not sure superlong telomers have any real benefit once you are able to contain attrition.

how can you contain attrition without telomerase?