2189 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

The item you show is the the title of an article in the Washington Times.
It is not a statement we have ever made about telomerase, or our products.

Do you know the difference between an explicit statement from us, and the title of an article from the Washington Times?

If you do, then the comment from bsm on trolling is appropriate.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 13 July 2009 - 04:07 PM.

[kilgoretrout]

The item you show is the the title of an article in the Washington Times.
It is not a statement we have ever made about telomerase, or our products.

Do you know the difference between an explicit statement from us, and the title of an article from the Washington Times?

If you do, then the comment from bsm on trolling is appropriate.

A

Oh yes, you merely LINKED to and included the title of a newspaper article about immortality, which I guess was intended to add legitimacy to your own utterly laughable claims with ZERO supporting evidence about lengthened telomeres and increased lifespan... a click away from "Enter Credit Card Number". That makes it completely ethical. Right.

I really don't give a damn what you think of my opinions. You are just a wealthy executive with financial conflicts of interest out the wazoo participating in what is supposed to be an objective scientific discussion group, with no qualifications other than being a businessman, and a bunch of presumptive layperson's interpretations of scientific papers, promoting your own products. Anyone who goes and spends a small fortune on them based on your statements here is a fool.

I think your marketing of such untested and possibly harmful substances with ZERO human medical test results, making up all sorts of extravagant remarks about improved lifespan and health benefits, when you have evidence for NONE OF THIS, is sleazy and unethical, plying on peoples' emotions and hopes with innuendo and suggestion, in order to fund your company.

Edited by kilgoretrout, 13 July 2009 - 08:45 PM.

[curious_sle]

I think your marketing of such untested and possibly harmful substances with ZERO human medical test results, making up all sorts of extravagant remarks about improved lifespan and health benefits, when you have evidence for NONE OF THIS, is sleazy and unethical, plying on peoples' emotions and hopes with innuendo and suggestion, in order to fund your company.

Uh, you got any personal problem you wanna talk about?

Hey we are discussing the merits of this supplement and Anthony is kind enough to not only sell this stuff (for less then several k$ i might add) but also actually listens to his customers.

If you have a problem with that so what? Is there no other way you can save the planet or something? I mean it is not like people are forced to buy this, are they?

[VespeneGas]

Oh yes, you merely LINKED to and included the title of a newspaper article about immortality, which I guess was intended to add legitimacy to your own utterly laughable claims with ZERO supporting evidence about lengthened telomeres and increased lifespan... a click away from "Enter Credit Card Number". That makes it completely ethical. Right.

I really don't give a damn what you think of my opinions. You are just a wealthy executive with financial conflicts of interest out the wazoo participating in what is supposed to be an objective scientific discussion group, with no qualifications other than being a businessman, and a bunch of presumptive layperson's interpretations of scientific papers, promoting your own products. Anyone who goes and spends a small fortune on them based on your statements here is a fool.

I think your marketing of such untested and possibly harmful substances with ZERO human medical test results, making up all sorts of extravagant remarks about improved lifespan and health benefits, when you have evidence for NONE OF THIS, is sleazy and unethical, plying on peoples' emotions and hopes with innuendo and suggestion, in order to fund your company.

Dude, anyone here ingesting this compound realizes that their usage thereof is highly speculative. You've made your point that there aren't in vivo human trials demonstrating benefits to the use of this compound. I can understand why you wouldn't want to take it.

Anthony started stocking Astragaloside IV largely because people on this board wanted to try it out at their own risk. It hasn't been pushed on these forums whatsoever, and everyone must take responsibility for what they ingest, do their own research, etc. I can understand taking aim at misleading advertisement, but you're railing against one of the best companies in the industry in this respect. They don't make misleading claims or sell shoddy, underdosed formulations. They sell quality supplements that may or may not improve your health, but they don't claim they'll make you live forever. Hell, Anthony came right out and said that the results of his first six months on his product had inconclusive/negative results for chrissakes.

Please just let it go. Your condescending, bombastic attitude doesn't pair well with your poor understanding of supplement politics, and your white knighting on behalf of the innocent consumer is entirely wasted here, where most people spend a substantial fraction of their time on pubmed. Your statement:

"If you are not a BioMed researcher with a couple PhDs behind your name, I guarantee you do not fully comprehend the individual research, let alone how dozens of them might hypothetically interact when combined."

while barely coherent on a grammatical level, is patently false. I assure you that an intelligent person with a passion for scientific exploration can grasp the nuances of scientific research before they've finished even ONE PhD. Do you have multiple PhD's in the sciences? What qualifies you to assess the in vitro research on astragaloside IV or any other chemical if you don't?

[kilgoretrout]

Uh, you got any personal problem you wanna talk about?Hey we are discussing the merits of this supplement and Anthony is kind enough to not only sell this stuff (for less then several k$ i might add) but also actually listens to his customers. If you have a problem with that so what? Is there no other way you can save the planet or something? I mean it is not like people are forced to buy this, are they?

Ahem. Perhaps he is selling it to be "kind"... but somehow I... oh never mind.Well, I guess if I want to vent about corporate behaviour, from now on I will start a different thread on that specific topic, so I'll put any future remarks along this line there.I fear your obsession with taking a magic pill to grow young again is clouding your judgement into unquestioning acceptance, whether it is made by RG or anyone else.If these sorts of comments disturb you, then just ignore them, but I do not understand people asking me not to make them. Are you really so sensitive? Isn't opinion/argument/challenge/discussion what a forum is for?Doesn't anyone else think RG's web advertising is putting on an excessive Heavy Sell, given the (non)evidence? It is mostly the heavy sell of their site, thick with implication and innuendo about health benefits and life-span-extension, that motivates my bitching. It is that sort of thing that will induce congress to try and repeal DSHEA, then we won't be able to get anything, and we will wish RG and others had been more circumspect.

[tunt01]

Doesn't anyone else think RG's web advertising is putting on an excessive Heavy Sell, given the (non)evidence? It is mostly the heavy sell of their site, thick with implication and innuendo about health benefits and life-span-extension, that motivates my bitching. It is that sort of thing that will induce congress to try and repeal DSHEA, then we won't be able to get anything, and we will wish RG and others had been more circumspect.

if RG were the "worst" guys on the web selling unregulated dietary supplements, the world would be a fabulous place. everything would be tested for heavy metals, owners would take their own products -- backing up their words with deeds.

companies will sell anything people want. it's consumer demand and buyer beware. millions of people buy sugary drinks, fast food, and all kinds of things that are bad for their health. whose job is it to police what consumer demand is ??

honestly, i think you are either young and naive or have led a sheltered life where you have never worked in a company before. you are totally overboard on this issue.

[niner]

I added one too many zeros when I tried to convert kilobases to a whole number for clarity, but my conversion to years was independent of that.

I've just taken yet another look at the charts, and it still looks to me like the Average line takes about 30 years to drop 1 kilobase. That's where I got my estimate of .5kb = 15 years. Obviously Repeat Diagnostics gets its name from the fact that telomeres are a "repeat sequence" and not from claiming to have a particularly repeatable test.

[...]
If the accuracy really is 10-15 years, none of us who are taking Astragaloside IV or resveratrol are willing to wait that long, or we'd be patiently waiting for long-term human clinical trials before we took anything. What we need is more samples, preferably from more than one subject, but they're expensive.

Oh, OK. You're right. I just extrapolated from the extra zero. Because the slope of the telomere length vs time curve is so low, at least in broad middle age, it's a lousy way to determine age. However, there might be a way to avoid the need to wait a decade for a result; if we got multiple determinations at two time points, the means of the multiple determinations should be more solid if the errors are normally distributed. (We'd also need a briefcase full of Benjamins...) If the A4 is doing what we want, we would ideally see an increase in telomere length. If the activity is weak, and we are barely keeping up with ordinary telomere loss, then it will still take a long time to see it. Too bad the test isn't more accurate. It sounds like at this point, we shouldn't make much of a single determination unless it's ten years out.

[niner]

Ahem. Perhaps he is selling it to be "kind"... but somehow I... oh never mind.

Well, I guess if I want to vent about corporate behaviour, from now on I will start a different thread on that specific topic, so I'll put any future remarks along this line there.
I fear your obsession with taking a magic pill to grow young again is clouding your judgement into unquestioning acceptance, whether it is made by RG or anyone else.

If these sorts of comments disturb you, then just ignore them, but I do not understand people asking me not to make them. Are you really so sensitive? Isn't opinion/argument/challenge/discussion what a forum is for?

Doesn't anyone else think RG's web advertising is putting on an excessive Heavy Sell, given the (non)evidence? It is mostly the heavy sell of their site, thick with implication and innuendo about health benefits and life-span-extension, that motivates my bitching. It is that sort of thing that will induce congress to try and repeal DSHEA, then we won't be able to get anything, and we will wish RG and others had been more circumspect.

I don't think we need to worry about losing access to supplements due to RG's marketing. There are WAY worse companies out there. I think that you are idealistic, and that's not entirely bad. Anthony is probably just doing what he has to do to compete in the marketplace. I think it would be an interesting experiment to put up a site that does not promote in any way, but lays out the science as we know it. It might be a welcome oasis amid all the hucksterism, and maybe it would move more product. (At least to people like us.) A lot of the problem here is that RG's market is mostly the lay public. They are drawn toward web sites with bright colors and emphatic claims. In a store the other day, I ran across a resveratrol marketing scheme called "Reversital", the very name of which implies a fountain of youth in a bottle. One dose contained two milligrams of resveratrol. At least Anthony's products have the potency needed to actually do something.

[kilgoretrout]

I don't think we need to worry about losing access to supplements due to RG's marketing. There are WAY worse companies out there. I think that you are idealistic, and that's not entirely bad. Anthony is probably just doing what he has to do to compete in the marketplace. I think it would be an interesting experiment to put up a site that does not promote in any way, but lays out the science as we know it. It might be a welcome oasis amid all the hucksterism, and maybe it would move more product. (At least to people like us.) A lot of the problem here is that RG's market is mostly the lay public. They are drawn toward web sites with bright colors and emphatic claims. In a store the other day, I ran across a resveratrol marketing scheme called "Reversital", the very name of which implies a fountain of youth in a bottle. One dose contained two milligrams of resveratrol. At least Anthony's products have the potency needed to actually do something.

HA! Reversital... that's quite clever (but irresponsible in its implications of course!)

If you call 48 young, God bless you. I am a software engineer for a company that makes 3d engineering design package... started when they were only 100 people, up to 2000, left for a while working a variety of places from warehouses to factories, then a jewelry manufaturer that uses CAD, then back to same enineering software company but that is now owned by a global company with I can say an immense number of employees. So I don't think I am naieve. Well perhaps all that time writing code makes me a sheltered geek.

Actually I guess it must be some sort of lingering youthfull idealism. Perhaps a previously unknown side-effect of 30 years of pickling yourself in antioxidants and nootropics.

And I will admit to being terribly impressed that Anthony takes his own products and publishes his own test results and does things that customers on a discussion group like this request of him.

Edited by kilgoretrout, 14 July 2009 - 03:39 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Kilgoretrout,

This thread is about Astragaloside IV, telomerase, and it's consideration for various things.
Yes, I take what we produce.
Yes, the material is tested as many family members take some items we produce as well.
Yes, we have found issues with some batches of (resveratrol) material, and have stopped offering a product simply because we tested it, and found higher than normal amounts of heavy metals.

At this point, I am personally trying to find the proper (Astragaloside IV/Cycloastragenol) dosage that works for me, and am publishing what I have.

I suppose for some there is an issue because I source the material, and have a bias toward it after all the information I have been provided from folks smarter than I. I can see folks saying that is an issue... However, if in the end it does not work the way many hope it might. It will be a disappointment for TA Sciences, Geron, and many others that are trying to use or re-sell TA-65 as well as ourselves who will be using Cycloastragenol soon.

Is there a possibility that the cycloastragenol supplement may not work as some folks would like it to? Yes, however the fact remains that Geron bought out 75% of the Hong Kong company that makes the Telomerase Activator they use in 2007, and now are publishing TAT-2 studies and the fact that TA-65 is being licensed out or distributed by more physicians as a dietary supplement as part of the TA Sciences protocol... all these things puts some legs on the idea that telomerase activators in general, have benefits and may support a more youthful phenotype.

Personally, I think it would harm Geron to be associated with snake oil, specially at this stage since they continue to provide the Telomerase Activator to TA Sciences.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 14 July 2009 - 06:34 PM.

[VinceG]

Anthony and all:

A few comments on telomerase activation and Astral Fruit

First of all to you Anthony, I have a great deal of trust and respect for your integrity, for your diligent research, continuing grasping for mastery of a rapidly evolving field, and willingness to take action to provide quality supplements that are wanted and needed by well-informed people. I believe your basic committment is to service.

Second, since switching to the 100mg dose of Astral Fruit I have a) continued to experience wellbeing and more and more hairs on my previously-bald scalp, and b) Monday found out from a biopsy that a rapidly-growing growth removed from my armpit was a basal-cell caricinoma. I had had a couple of such growths 5 years ago but they stopped coming when I upped my resveratrol, curcumin and aswagandha supplements. The growth was easily removed and in no-way life-threatening. However, I found out that my current "firewall against cancers" is not now bulletproof.

I do not know if telomerase activation was involved in the tumor development, but I do plan for now to keep taking the Astral Fruit, alternating it with curcumin, resveratrol, etc. on a daily cycle. My impression is that the field of oncogenesis is currently in upheaval because more and more researchers are looking to cancer stem cells as being the key targets for anti-cancer therapy rather than mature cancer cells. See my blog post On Cancer Stem Cells http://anti-agingfir...cer-stem-cells/ Enhanced expression of telomerase, as I have pointed out, increases differentiation and proliferation of normal stem cells through a pathway independent of telomere extension. There are hints in the research literature that telomerase activation may be doing the same for cancer stem cells. I will be seeing if I can turn up anything in the literature specificaklly related to this. And I may suggest shifts in my anti-cancer firewall regimen for people on Astral Fruit.
Vince

[kilgoretrout]

Hi Kilgoretrout,

I suppose for some there is an issue because I source the material, and have a bias toward it after all the information I have been provided from folks smarter than I. I can see folks saying that is an issue...

... all these things puts some legs on the idea that telomerase activators in general, have benefits and may support a more youthful phenotype.

Hi Anthony Loera, nice to meet you.

Thank you so very much for acknowledging head-on the concerns about a vendor participating in a forum about a substance he sells. That exact issue does tend to get me worked up and cause all my most cynical thoughts to start bristling, since in some other places I have seen first hand some pretty bad consequences from that sort ot thing. But I now agree with the others that you are a different sort.

And perhaps I got a little too, umm... passionate about things, especially with respect to the web site, but I am content with awareness that there are those who are concerned about the appropriateness of some rather certain-sounding "impressions" being given in areas where the underlying knowledge is so fresh that it cannot really be considered "dry". Like you are trying to force a Fresco to be finished and touchable too soon by painting with a quick-drying hard enamel over top of still-damp plaster... seems like asking for trouble, leading to unhappy clients, or even, heaven forbid, an angry "Bishop". Not even Michaelangelo would risk that!

Anyway, cheers to "supporting a more youthful phenotype"!
KT.

[zorba990]

Anthony and all:

A few comments on telomerase activation and Astral Fruit

First of all to you Anthony, I have a great deal of trust and respect for your integrity, for your diligent research, continuing grasping for mastery of a rapidly evolving field, and willingness to take action to provide quality supplements that are wanted and needed by well-informed people. I believe your basic committment is to service.

Second, since switching to the 100mg dose of Astral Fruit I have a) continued to experience wellbeing and more and more hairs on my previously-bald scalp, and b) Monday found out from a biopsy that a rapidly-growing growth removed from my armpit was a basal-cell caricinoma. I had had a couple of such growths 5 years ago but they stopped coming when I upped my resveratrol, curcumin and aswagandha supplements. The growth was easily removed and in no-way life-threatening. However, I found out that my current "firewall against cancers" is not now bulletproof.

I do not know if telomerase activation was involved in the tumor development, but I do plan for now to keep taking the Astral Fruit, alternating it with curcumin, resveratrol, etc. on a daily cycle. My impression is that the field of oncogenesis is currently in upheaval because more and more researchers are looking to cancer stem cells as being the key targets for anti-cancer therapy rather than mature cancer cells. See my blog post On Cancer Stem Cells http://anti-agingfir...cer-stem-cells/ Enhanced expression of telomerase, as I have pointed out, increases differentiation and proliferation of normal stem cells through a pathway independent of telomere extension. There are hints in the research literature that telomerase activation may be doing the same for cancer stem cells. I will be seeing if I can turn up anything in the literature specificaklly related to this. And I may suggest shifts in my anti-cancer firewall regimen for people on Astral Fruit.
Vince

A pure liquid concentrate sure would be great for scalp application....hint.....

[AgeVivo]

more and more hairs on my previously-bald scalp, and b) Monday found out from a biopsy that a rapidly-growing growth removed from my armpit was a basal-cell caricinoma.(...) I do not know if telomerase activation was involved in the tumor development

!?! If i were you i would stop immediately because i prefer life without hair to...

[Anthony_Loera]

AgeVivo,

Transient Telomerase is what your body normally does when fighting off a virus, a cold etc... it is not the issue. It does appear however that he already may be susceptible and simply needs to be aware (like all those in remission) to be vigilant.

I had had a couple of such growths 5 years ago but they stopped coming when I upped my resveratrol, curcumin and aswagandha supplements.

As all folks who have had cancer know... "remission" does not mean its cured. Transient telomerase provides no increase cancer risk, over what one already has.

A

[VinceG]

Hi Anthony

"Transient Telomerase is what your body normally does when fighting off a virus, a cold etc... it is not the issue. It does appear however that he already may be susceptible and simply needs to be aware (like all those in remission) to be vigilant."

Normally the skin cancer I had, basal cell carcinoma, is cut out or zapped with liquid nitrogen and then, if all of it is got, is gone. No remissions. Sometimes another cancer appears nearby on the skin.

"As all folks who have had cancer know... "remission" does not mean its cured. Transient telomerase provides no increase cancer risk, over what one already has."

I wish I could be sure of that. I agree that if I had no cancer whatsoever, transient telomerase expression would probably pose no additional cancer risk. But, IF I have a few cancer stem cells still kicking around (which is possible because the margins were not cut wide when the tumor was removed since the dermatologist then did not think it was a cancer) AND indeed telomerase induces rapid differentiation and proliferation of cancer stem cells, then enhancing telomerase expfression would in fact be risky. Many researchers now think remissions are due to lurking cancer stem cells.
`
As I said I am rolling the dice and staying on Astral Fruit for now since 1. basal cell carcinoma is a quite benign and completely curable cancer once it is caught, 2. the dermatologist is cutting out more around the cancer site Friday, and 3. I like the other things I think Astral Fruit is doing. I am also upping my daily curcumin and switching to your micronized resveratrol as part of my personal anti-cancer firewall. If I get additional skin cancers I will probably at least temporarily cut out the astragaloside IV before something serious happens.
Vince

[Anthony_Loera]

Thanks VinceG,

I appreciate the information, and it's my understanding that if you already have some cancer cells... transient telomerase would not put the cancer cell which already has telomerase turned permanently on, into overdrive.

So, I can't agree with you there. I believe TA Sciences tested 4 types of cancers and overall did not statistically increase the size of the tumors over controls.

Again, I appreciate the information. But I think, as noted before... this happened previously, well before Astral Fruit was introduced. The anti-cancer firewall is a good thing, and I think I need to see if the P16 item we are working on can be a consideration to support your heath as well.

Thanks for the update VinceG, very much appreciated.

A

[unglued]

I emailed Repeat Diagnostics at the address at the top of their reports to ask about the questions we had.

First of all, the answer clears up two things we were wondering about the Standard Deviation figure: why it varied from one report to the other, and why it's sometimes zero. It varied because it's not a theoretical property of their methods, but an empirical value. They split the blood sample in two so they can test it twice. So I guess the SD of 0.1 in the 09/03/09 (March 2009) lymphocyte result means that they got 6.2 one time and 6.4 another, and thus reported 6.3 plus-or-minus 0.1. In the 02/09/08 (September 2008) report, they must have measured 6.8 in both halves of the sample, so they reported an SD of 0.0.

Secondly, they said that in their experience, "repeat samples testing over time" has been "very accurate". They did not clarify whether that means that they dispute the 0.5 SD that I specifically asked about or that consider +/- 0.5 kb to be "very accurate". If it's the latter, I disagree. If it's the former, that would seem to contradict what they told Anthony over the telephone. All I can think is that they meant that it's a little unusual for two samples to vary randomly by 0.5 kb, but not unheard of and more likely than someone's telomeres spontaneously getting that much shorter so quickly. Or that different company representatives give different answers.

[bsm]

@Kilgoretrou troll post.

Telomore studies and lectures exist on cell immortalization. Buyers are assuming the same studies in vitro will have some of the same effects in human cells and are aware human studies are still in infancy or nonexistant. You should also think about reading the previous posts before posting yourself.

Notice how I limit my response from two to four sentences.

Edited by bsm, 18 July 2009 - 07:47 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Just a quick comment:

I just noticed, this thread has 50,000 views so far.
It certainly appears it is a noticeably popular thread in the supplement section.

I do believe this thread has an enormous amount of information, and links regarding Astragalus, Astragaloside IV, and Cycloastragenol. Although I am not sure it deserves it's own place like the resveratrol forum, it's certainly interesting to see the milestone and the perceived interest in the extracts from astragalus.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 19 July 2009 - 01:41 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

I am a software engineer for a company that makes 3d engineering design package... started when they were only 100 people, up to 2000, left for a while working a variety of places from warehouses to factories, then a jewelry manufaturer that uses CAD, then back to same enineering software company but that is now owned by a global company with I can say an immense number of employees. So I don't think I am naieve. Well perhaps all that time writing code makes me a sheltered geek.

Relevancy?

Actually ...nevermind. Who cares.

[VinceG]

Hi telomerase activists and interested parties. You might be interested in my latest blog post Extra-telomeric benefits of telomerase – good news for telomerase activators
It can be found at http://anti-agingfirewalls.com/2009/07/22/extra-telomeric-benefits-of-telomerase-%e2%80%93-good-news-for-telomerase-activators/

In that post I point out several important benefits of telomerase activation that are independent of telomere length extension, providing research study references. These benefits could turn out in the long run to be as or more important than simply extending telomeres. I conclude the post saying "In the light of the above, I am not excessively concerned about whether telomere lengthening is happening in me as a result of my taking the astragaloside IV telomerase activator. The other benefits are likely to be worthwhile by themselves."
Vince[/font]

[Anthony_Loera]

Nice VinceG,

Appreciate the info.

A

[kilgoretrout]

Relevancy?

Actually ...nevermind. Who cares.

Someone was accusing me of being naieve and possibly having no experience in anything business-related. But you're right, who cares.

[kilgoretrout]

Hi telomerase activists and interested parties. You might be interested in my latest blog post Extra-telomeric benefits of telomerase – good news for telomerase activators
It can be found at http://anti-agingfir...ase-activators/

In that post I point out several important benefits of telomerase activation that are independent of telomere length extension, providing research study references. These benefits could turn out in the long run to be as or more important than simply extending telomeres. I conclude the post saying "In the light of the above, I am not excessively concerned about whether telomere lengthening is happening in me as a result of my taking the astragaloside IV telomerase activator. The other benefits are likely to be worthwhile by themselves."
Vince</FONT>

"...There TERT plays a DNA-protective role and improves mitochondrial functioning..."

Yes, thanks VERY much for this. Puts a whole different light on whether things that increase TERT can be even speculatively claimed to be beneficial to health, because if its ONLY telomere-lengthening it's still very much up in the air, like in the stratosphere. But the above quote alone is extremely valuable, as there are many conditions and hundreds of medications that cause damage to mitochondria and impair their functioning to highly detrimental effect on the organism.

Edited by kilgoretrout, 22 July 2009 - 02:03 PM.

[GreenPower]

Hi Astragalus-fans,

at the moment I take 400 mg Astragaloside IV every day for planned two weeks. 200 mg in the morning, 200 mg in the evening.

While the Astragaloside cycle (14 days) I don't want to take Resveratrol.

To my personal opinion it is better to have a short cycle of telomere longing with high telomerase levels than a medium dose over a long time. I am aware that it is some new terrain. But I am ready to bear the risk with all consequences (no risk - no chance!)

Holding the cycles very short should maybe minimize the possible risks.

After this short Astragalus cycle I will start with again with high dose Resveratrol and active anti-cancer-regimen at minimum 1 month to hold down telomerase and kill possible promoting cancer cells.

There has not been shown a high risk for cancer with astragaloside, so I should have a fair chance to win a few years.

After every Astragaloside cycle my health will by checked by a doctor.

I will inform you about the results.

Any comments to this?

BR, Hedrock

Did you take a baseline of your telomeres (i.e. a FlowFISH-test) before you started?

[GreenPower]

After a three week break in taking AIV (3 x 33mg), I started taking the new 100mg dose with Chitosan today (1 x 100mg). It's pretty strong, but I hope to have grown accustomed to the larger dose in a few days.

After another three months with 1 x 100mg I will take another telomere test and see if there's been any effect.

In either case, I think I will try the Cycloastragenol when it gets available.

"Pretty strong"? What effects did you notice?

It's hard to describe. I've seen one person in this thread calling it "nervousness", but in my case it's more like the feeling of the nerves "being overly stimulated". Similar to up-regulating your tryptophan/serotonin levels - but not exactly. Therefore I used to spread out my 3 x 33mg of AIV over the day, not taking them all at once.

But this time the symptoms only hanged around like 36 hours and then disappeared completely. Therefore my guess is that it's not the AIV giving these symptoms, but some other compound in the Astragalus exctract (which they use instead of a "rice powder filler"). The logic for this guess being that I now only take a third of these compounds (1 pill instead of three) each day.

[Anthony_Loera]

Sorry,

I have taken 200mg to see what you are talking about, but I do not get the reaction you are talking about.

I'll let you know about cycloastragenol next week (yes, I got to use it myself before making it available...)

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 28 July 2009 - 06:33 PM.

[1kgcoffee]

Did you take a baseline of your telomeres (i.e. a FlowFISH-test) before you started?

I'm curious, what is a flowFISH test and how does it work?

-thanks

[GreenPower]

Sorry,

I have taken 200mg to see what you are talking about, but I do not get the reaction you are talking about.

I'll let you know about cycloastragenol next week (yes, I got to use it myself before making it available...)

Cheers
A

It could be I'm part of the "less than one person out of 100 has the symptom" group. And I also get it when taking the same amount of pills of "standardized Astragalus exctract" (see earlier post for composition), so I'm pretty sure it's not the AIV which gives this effect.

Good to know it's been thoroughly tested before I start using it! ;-) But seriously, in what price range do you think it will finally end up?

Edited by GreenPower, 29 July 2009 - 02:34 PM.