2189 replies to this topic

[mikeinnaples]

No response to what I quoted and your misrepresentation of me?

I have to ask you to substantiate what you claimed about me with evidence, or retract the statement.

[Anthony_Loera]

No response to what I quoted and your misrepresentation of me?

I have to ask you to substantiate what you claimed about me with evidence, or retract the statement.

I thought I made myself clear, which part are you referring to?

A

[johnross47]

the point I have been making is not about quality or price....I realise there is evidence for Portulaca as well....but is there any research on the interaction of the two main ingredients.....do they interact and if so, how? Do they act independently side by side producing twice the effect for example? Or what? I need to reorder and I've been happy so far with the old product....can you reassure me about the new one.....quote some research?

[Anthony_Loera]

the point I have been making is not about quality or price....I realise there is evidence for Portulaca as well....but is there any research on the interaction of the two main ingredients.....do they interact and if so, how? Do they act independently side by side producing twice the effect for example? Or what? I need to reorder and I've been happy so far with the old product....can you reassure me about the new one.....quote some research?

There is no published research at this time, only internal data that I cannot share.

Cheers
A

[mikeinnaples]

No response to what I quoted and your misrepresentation of me?

I have to ask you to substantiate what you claimed about me with evidence, or retract the statement.

I thought I made myself clear, which part are you referring to?

A

The inclination to purchase a cheap product rather than a quality product tends to permeate these forums, at least from Mike who has commented on this previously regarding our specials and member deals, so his comments were expected.

Sorry, I dont purchase low quality products knowingly. I consume Revgentics and Jarrow mostly, with a couple of NOW products thrown in. All are reputable and hardly cheap, low quality products. I am careful with what I put in my body and find it insulting that you insinuated otherwise.

I am pretty sure I bolded this previously to make it clear what I was referring to.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 28 October 2010 - 06:58 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Ahh... I see where the disconnect is regarding my initial argument.

Presently I am having a hard time reconciling a single ingredient product that is made without any physical alteration (such as micronization) or additional ingredients (such as Chitosan and/or Bioperine) that would help absorption, as a quality product.

I believed a year or two ago, I would have stated and believed differently... (regarding telomerase activators).
However because of recent information, I have changed my mind on this type of product.

I apologize and will retract my statement to you personally, as I believe it was completely my fault as I believed I had somehow communicated some internal proprietary information regarding this. I think I maybe too close to the information, and may need to limit my posts because of this now.

Too sum up,

1- I don't believe a single ingredient telomerase activator is a quality product, while you may still believe it to be one.
2- I retract my statement and apologize to mikeinnaples, as I thought I had released some internal information here regarding absorption. I assumed when he talked about a pure single cycloastragenol product, that he preferred it over one which I believed was a quality product (which in my eyes meant it was produced by taking into account an increase in absorption somehow).


A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 28 October 2010 - 07:22 PM.

[johnross47]

these replies sound as if you have the data I would like to have.....I have no reason not to trust you....I'm only cynical about politicians and sales people.....I will probably order some of the new formula soon.....give it a try.......has anyone reported any experiences on it yet?

[niner]

According to the Harley paper in Rejuvenation Research, older people who are CMV+ should benefit from cycloastragenol. Does anyone reading this know their CMV status? Is this something that is commonly assayed, or is it a research test?

[saxiephon]

See the following report:

http://emediahealth....-fight-viruses/

[tintinet]

According to the Harley paper in Rejuvenation Research, older people who are CMV+ should benefit from cycloastragenol. Does anyone reading this know their CMV status? Is this something that is commonly assayed, or is it a research test?

From the CDC:


"Active infection with CMV can be diagnosed by PCR or viral culture of CMV from urine, saliva, throat swab specimens or other body tissues. Serologic tests that detect CMV antibodies ( IgM and IgG antibody to CMV) are widely available from commercial laboratories. The enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) is the most commonly available serologic test for measuring antibody to CMV. Various fluorescence assays and indirect hemagglutination and latex agglutination tests are also available.

A positive test for CMV IgG indicates that a person was infected with CMV at some time during their life but the IgG test cannot determine when a person was infected. However, if antibody tests of paired acute- and convalescent-phase serum samples show a fourfold rise in IgG antibody and CMV IgM antibody is present or CMV virus is cultured from a urine or throat specimen, an active CMV infection is present.

The presence of CMV IgM is not solely indicative of primary infection. CMV IgM is detectable when a person 1) is newly infected, 2) has been infected in the past but recently re-exposed to CMV, 3) is undergoing reactivation of CMV infection that was acquired in the past, or 4) has a false-positive test result. Thus, the presence of CMV IgM should not be used by itself to diagnose primary CMV infection.

Recently, IgG avidity assays, which measure antibody maturity, have been shown to reliably detect recent primary CMV infection. When a person is infected with CMV for the first time, the body produces low-avidity IgG. After 2-4 months, the body begins to produce high-avidity CMV IgG. Low CMV IgG avidity suggests a primary CMV infection occurred within the past 2-4 months. High CMV IgG avidity suggests that CMV infection occurred at some point in the past. CMV IgG avidity tests are not yet commercially available in the United States."

Prevalence rates are high, so I assume I'm +.

Edited by tintinet, 29 October 2010 - 10:56 PM.

[maxwatt]

From the New York State Department of Health:

What is Cytomegalovirus (CMV)?

CMV is a common virus that infects most people at some time during their lives but rarely causes obvious illness. It is a member of the herpes virus family. Other members of the herpes virus family cause chickenpox, infectious mononucleosis, fever blisters (herpes I) and genital herpes (herpes II). Like other herpes viruses, CMV infection can become dormant for a while and may reactivate at a later time. The virus is carried by people and is not associated with food, water or animals.

Human chromosomal DNA contains regions that are homologous to areas of the CMV viral genome. It's possible that we have coexisted with the virus long enough to incorporate it into the genome, though the similarities could be an unlikely coincidence. Did Harley's paper actually have a group that was CMV negative, or are we all infected at birth?

[niner]

Human chromosomal DNA contains regions that are homologous to areas of the CMV viral genome. It's possible that we have coexisted with the virus long enough to incorporate it into the genome, though the similarities could be an unlikely coincidence. Did Harley's paper actually have a group that was CMV negative, or are we all infected at birth?

Harley had a mixed population; from counting points on one of their graphs, it looks like 47 positive, 39 negative; a nice internal control group since the patients didn't know their status up front. On CMV infection rates in general, they say:

About 50% of the U.S. population is infected with CMV as judged by circulating CMV-specific antibodies, but after an initial 30% seropositivity rate by age ≈10, there is ≈1% annual seroconversion rate throughout life leading to ≈90% seropositivity by the ninth decade. This linear increase has made it difficult to distinguish the effects of pure immunosenescence from those that can be attributed to this extremely common virus.

As to effect:

The ages of the CMV+ and CMV− subjects (65±12 and 62±13, respectively) were not significantly different, but the mean lymphocyte TL in CMV+ individuals was 680bp less than that observed in the CMV− group (p=0.003), suggesting an acceleration of aging by about 10 years in the CMV+ group based on −55bp per year for lymphocytes.

Since they saw statistically significant improvement in a number of immune parameters in the CMV+ group, essentially driving them back toward the status of the CMV- group, it looks like this is a good intervention if you're CMV+, but if you are young-ish and CMV-, then maybe you could wait a while.

[maxwatt]

How does one know if one is CMV positive?

[Anthony_Loera]

these replies sound as if you have the data I would like to have.....I have no reason not to trust you....I'm only cynical about politicians and sales people.....I will probably order some of the new formula soon.....give it a try.......has anyone reported any experiences on it yet?

Yes,

I have a customer asking us to change the way we recommend taking res & cycloastragenol.

It seems he takes cycloastragenol RGTA complex 2 days, then resveratrol for one or two days. In his words he finds the boost of energy not disappearing completely after he switches to res in this manner.

I am not entirely sure if there is a boost with the RGTA cycloastragenol formula, but I found his emails of interest as they were a bit detailed in the process he took to arrive to his adequate dose and timing to maximize his energy boost using both products.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 30 October 2010 - 11:14 PM.

[niner]

I have a customer asking us to change the way we recommend taking res & cycloastragenol.

It seems he takes cycloastragenol RGTA complex 2 days, then resveratrol for one or two days. In his words he finds the boost of energy not disappearing completely after he switches to res in this manner.

I am not entirely sure if there is a boost with the RGTA cycloastragenol formula, but I found his emails of interest as they were a bit detailed in the process he took to arrive to his adequate dose and timing to maximize his energy boost using both products.

Boost of energy? From cycloastragenol? I would be really interested in hearing his response to a placebo...

[Anthony_Loera]

Same thought here, although it maybe that the 'energy' may come from something in the other two ingredients in the RGTA complex.

I just thought it was interesting due to his detailed emails.

I have not heard of another customer expressing energy at this time from the RGTA complex, but do hear it from the res customers once in a while, which I think may be a placebo effect within the first 2-3 weeks.

A

[RCW]

Same thought here, although it maybe that the 'energy' may come from something in the other two ingredients in the RGTA complex.

I just thought it was interesting due to his detailed emails.

I have not heard of another customer expressing energy at this time from the RGTA complex, but do hear it from the res customers once in a while, which I think may be a placebo effect within the first 2-3 weeks.

A

Anthony,

I'm the guy who sent you the email about the "energy boost." I had meant to post it on this thread. I thought I saved it in my email but it seems to be gone. I don't really want to re-create it so I'm hoping you still have a copy and if possible I'd be happy if you posted it here. Just a little more information: I still have the old Cycloastragenol formula as well as the new. I'm taking the old formula on the first day (one capsule) and the new on the second day (two capsules) in the morning and then laying off on the third day. I'm still feeling the energy effect and toward the end of the third day or the beginning of the fourth day a bit of a sag. I should probably lay off for a couple of days to really see what's happening. Also I am still taking 250 mg resveratrol (as well as Curcamin and Milk Thistle) daily in the evening about 12 hrs after the Astral Fruit. I can say that I do seem to be feeling younger as the months go by.

Now another piece of interesting news. My wife is also on this regimen. She is 61 and hasn't had a period in 11 years. Well, last month she experienced sensations she associates with ovulation and two weeks later had a period. Not heavy but it ran a normal course of about a week. Frankly she is a little worried about it so she was wondering if you have heard of such a thing. But she is also feeling younger.

As you can imagine we're a bit fascinated with all this. Any further information you might have would be appreciated.

And thanks for all your good work.

[maxwatt]

...
Now another piece of interesting news. My wife is also on this regimen. She is 61 and hasn't had a period in 11 years. Well, last month she experienced sensations she associates with ovulation and two weeks later had a period. Not heavy but it ran a normal course of about a week. Frankly she is a little worried about it so she was wondering if you have heard of such a thing. But she is also feeling younger.

As you can imagine we're a bit fascinated with all this. Any further information you might have would be appreciated.

And thanks for all your good work.

Any physician will tell you with alarm that this is impossible, and would begin screening for uterine cancer or other anomolies. When menopause is complete, about age 50 to 53, the eggs are gone, the ovaries empty. A female is born with a set number of eggs, and once gone, they are gone.

Perhaps medical wisdom is wrong, or perhaps the condition is hormonal without ovulation. Could her hormonal levels have been rejuvenated? If so vaginal dryness will be diminished too.

If I were your wife, I would have a doctor check it out just in case.

[niner]

What do we know about telomerase inhibition from resveratrol and other compounds we might be taking? These guys are claiming that resveratrol increases endothelial progenitor cells via activation of telomerase. I don't know if this is something specific to EPCs; the same team finds other compounds that do the same thing, including ginkgo and nicotine; see the related articles section. I'd like to sort out which compounds can or can't be taken with cycloastragenol, and what if any time lags are required.

[Anthony_Loera]

Thanks RCW for clearing things up, that helps quite a bit.

niner, all I can say is that their will be some important developments around the 2nd QTR of 2011 regarding your last post. I wish I can say more, but the research is ongoing.

A

[Anthony_Loera]

Dr. Valenzuela (Dr. V as I call him) is our Chief Science Officer, and he generally provides a summary of current studies in our newsletter.

Below is this month's summary on some interesting telomere related studies:

Telomeres in the News

In a study this month of October, a research group that included Elizabeth Blackburn (last year’s Nobel Laureate for Medicine) investigated the relationship between estrogen and telomere length maintenance (Brain Res, Oct 18 2010). In this study 53 postmenopausal women were treated with estrogen (i.e. hormone therapy) for at least one year and some cases longer and then blood was removed and blood cells measured for telomere length and telomerase activity. The results indicated that there was a direct correlation with the amount of time that the women received the hormone treatment and longer telomeres but yet had lower levels of telomerase activity. This is peculiar result since one would expect higher telomerase activity associated with the longer telomeres. Because of this result, the researchers conclude that the hormone therapy is actually delaying the cellular aging process. Equally important is the fact that this is the first published result linking estrogen, telomerase and telomere length, which may now open the door for future research.

Ever since telomere length was first shown to strongly correlate with the longevity of cells, it has also been speculated if this would also hold true for an organism. In a recent study in the Journal of Gerontology a group of scientist set out to investigate whether telomere length is associated with cardiovascular or cancer disease progression and the survival of elderly men (Journal of Gerontology A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2010 Oct 1). In the Zutphen Elderly Study, which this article reports about, 203 men with a mean age of 78 were followed for 7 years. During this time period white blood cells were obtained and measure for telomere length. The results indicated that telomere shorten by an average of 40.2 base pairs/ year. More importantly it was observed that longer baseline telomere lengths did not correlate with the mortality progression of cardiovascular diseases, cancer or all cause mortality.

And finally, injury to our retinal pigment epithelium by oxidative damage during old age can lead to Age-related Macular Degeneration (AMD). AMD is not something to be taken lightly given the fact that prevalence is 30% in people between the ages of 75 and 85. Melatonin, which is an antioxidant protein, was studied for it’s potential to reduce oxidative damage more so than other antioxidants due to the fact that retinal pigment epithelium cells have a receptor for melatonin, which would help this compound bind it target cell (Med Hypotheses 2010 Sep 28). The results from the author indicated that in merely three months melatonin treatment of 3 mg given orally daily was sufficient to reduce the AMD. The author hypothesized that the mechanism of action is ultimately provided by melatonin’s ability to activate telomerase activity retinal pigment epithelium. This activation helps not only prevent the onset of AMD but also treat it.

Hector Valenzuela, Ph.D. (Dr. V.)
Chief Science Officer
RevGenetics

Cheers
A

[Gern]

...
Now another piece of interesting news. My wife is also on this regimen. She is 61 and hasn't had a period in 11 years. Well, last month she experienced sensations she associates with ovulation and two weeks later had a period. Not heavy but it ran a normal course of about a week. Frankly she is a little worried about it so she was wondering if you have heard of such a thing. But she is also feeling younger.

As you can imagine we're a bit fascinated with all this. Any further information you might have would be appreciated.

And thanks for all your good work.

Any physician will tell you with alarm that this is impossible, and would begin screening for uterine cancer or other anomolies. When menopause is complete, about age 50 to 53, the eggs are gone, the ovaries empty. A female is born with a set number of eggs, and once gone, they are gone.

Perhaps medical wisdom is wrong, or perhaps the condition is hormonal without ovulation. Could her hormonal levels have been rejuvenated? If so vaginal dryness will be diminished too.

If I were your wife, I would have a doctor check it out just in case.

From what I've been able to gather women start with 1-3 million eggs and that by the time of menopause they can have as many as 10,000 left. My understanding is that it is dropping levels of folicle stimulating hormone and estrogen that causes menopause. In fact this study Effects of melatonin in perimenopausal and menopausal women: our personal experience. there are reports of reversing menopause using just Melatonin. Perhaps this ties in with the Anthony's post regarding AMD and Melatonin.

[Gern]

What do we know about telomerase inhibition from resveratrol and other compounds we might be taking? These guys are claiming that resveratrol increases endothelial progenitor cells via activation of telomerase. I don't know if this is something specific to EPCs; the same team finds other compounds that do the same thing, including ginkgo and nicotine; see the related articles section. I'd like to sort out which compounds can or can't be taken with cycloastragenol, and what if any time lags are required.

From what I can gather the volume of research showing that ECGC, resveratrol, curcumin and others act on cancer cells by inhibiting telomerase is much greater than the volume of research regarding their effect on telomerase in normal cells. In the case of resveratrol and ECGS it appears there's evidence they may increase telomerase expression in non-cancerous cells. The anti-aging firewalls blog cites two studies in which resveratrol increased telomerase activity in non-cancerous cells: Resveratrol reduces endothelial progenitor cells senescence through augmentation of telomerase activity by Akt-dependent mechanisms, and Immortalization of epithelial progenitor cells mediated by resveratrol. In the study Chinese tea consumption is associated with longer telomere length in elderly Chinese men., drinking green tea was associated with longer telomeres in a group of 2000 men and women 65 and older.

One possible explanation, if I were to conjecture, might be that these compounds don't so much increase or decrease levels as they act to regulate the level of telomerase; increasing it if it is below a given level or decreasing it if it is above. That would account for their ability to increase telomerase activity in cells with low or normal levels, but act to decrease it in cancer cells with extremely high levels of telomerase.

However, that is just conjecture, and the bottom line is: I don't think there's enough evidence to determine the real effect of taking cycloastrogenol at the same time as these other compounds.

[Anthony_Loera]

However, that is just conjecture, and the bottom line is: I don't think there's enough evidence to determine the real effect of taking cycloastrogenol at the same time as these other compounds.

I agree, at this time we believe resveratrol will inhibit telomerase, and suggest not to take it at the same time as Cycloastragenol.

A

[tintinet]

"If I were your wife, I would have a doctor check it out just in case."

1+!


Post menopausal bleeding might be reversal of menopause, but could be something more serious. Definitely have your wife see a doctor ASAP.

Edited by tintinet, 02 November 2010 - 03:43 PM.

[Chopperboy]

Same thought here, although it maybe that the 'energy' may come from something in the other two ingredients in the RGTA complex.

I have not heard of another customer expressing energy at this time from the RGTA complex, but do hear it from the res customers once in a while, which I think may be a placebo effect within the first 2-3 weeks.

A

Taking your Cycloastraganol 5-10mg over a few months I have noticed the following effects:

1) Strong feeling of well being, feeling youthful and optimistic
2) More active/ energy, enjoy exercising
3) More driven to get projects completed
4) Better eyesight (colour, contrast and sharpness)
5) Increased libido
6) Reduction in wart sizes
7) Improved digestion
7) Reappearance of freckles - last time that happened was in my youth
8) Bitter foods seem to taste more bitter

[bocor]

Anthony leora....Is there some kind of membership pricing for the cycloastragenol?I was going to order the Astragaloside 4 product when you had it for $25 month but was never able to.I am interested in giving the cyclo a fair shot thx

[Elus]

And finally, injury to our retinal pigment epithelium by oxidative damage during old age can lead to Age-related Macular Degeneration (AMD). AMD is not something to be taken lightly given the fact that prevalence is 30% in people between the ages of 75 and 85. Melatonin, which is an antioxidant protein, was studied for it’s potential to reduce oxidative damage more so than other antioxidants due to the fact that retinal pigment epithelium cells have a receptor for melatonin, which would help this compound bind it target cell (Med Hypotheses 2010 Sep 28). The results from the author indicated that in merely three months melatonin treatment of 3 mg given orally daily was sufficient to reduce the AMD. The author hypothesized that the mechanism of action is ultimately provided by melatonin’s ability to activate telomerase activity retinal pigment epithelium. This activation helps not only prevent the onset of AMD but also treat it.

1. I'm confused. How could taking an anti-oxidant help repair damage that was there in the first place? Could you clarify on whether the rate of macular degeneration was slowed, or it was reversed to some extent (A subtle but important difference).

2. I wonder if you could use a viral vector to increase expression of melatonin receptors in eye cells, and thus increase melatonin uptake and further increase the protective effects of taking melatonin. Couldn't you actually do that with a bunch of different viral vectors targeting all the bodies cells, increasing anti-oxidant uptake, and preventing oxidative damage to a great extent... Just a crazy thought

[Thorsten3]

And finally, injury to our retinal pigment epithelium by oxidative damage during old age can lead to Age-related Macular Degeneration (AMD). AMD is not something to be taken lightly given the fact that prevalence is 30% in people between the ages of 75 and 85. Melatonin, which is an antioxidant protein, was studied for it’s potential to reduce oxidative damage more so than other antioxidants due to the fact that retinal pigment epithelium cells have a receptor for melatonin, which would help this compound bind it target cell (Med Hypotheses 2010 Sep 28). The results from the author indicated that in merely three months melatonin treatment of 3 mg given orally daily was sufficient to reduce the AMD. The author hypothesized that the mechanism of action is ultimately provided by melatonin’s ability to activate telomerase activity retinal pigment epithelium. This activation helps not only prevent the onset of AMD but also treat it.

1. I'm confused. How could taking an anti-oxidant help repair damage that was there in the first place? Could you clarify on whether the rate of macular degeneration was slowed, or it was reversed to some extent (A subtle but important difference).

2. I wonder if you could use a viral vector to increase expression of melatonin receptors in eye cells, and thus increase melatonin uptake and further increase the protective effects of taking melatonin. Couldn't you actually do that with a bunch of different viral vectors targeting all the bodies cells, increasing anti-oxidant uptake, and preventing oxidative damage to a great extent... Just a crazy thought

Wow

What a beast of a thread.

I would love the opportunity of having two days spare to read through all of this so please excuse my basic questions that have probably been asked many times.

What are the general thoughts about astragalus? Is it up there with the other reported 'big players' resveratrol and curcumin?

Do you not need to take a bomb of this stuff for it to have any benefical effect? Any reputable brands that are recommended?

[mikeinnaples]

Do you not need to take a bomb of this stuff for it to have any benefical effect? Any reputable brands that are recommended?

Of astragalus, yes ...you would need to eat a ton of it to get what you want out of supplements.