2189 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Thanks GreenPower,

It helps to know people's subjective observations. We are changing a few things come 2011 that may help regarding your request.

More to come in January.

A

[niner]

I should also mention TA-65's competitor Astral Fruit-NF with 150mg per bottle of cycloastragenol which averages 5mg per day.

http://www.revgeneti...supplement.aspx

http://www.terratern...id=563&pgid=139

They seem to offer two sizes. The larger bottle would offer better price performance.

I would like them to present some lab report on the exact content, but I guess the absence of this is why the price is lower.

Lower than what? Unless something has changed since you posted, Terraternal is more than twice as expensive as RG, even considering the larger size. RG has a CoA, and Terraternal doesn't. Not much competition happening yet. I guess you're comparing to TA Sciences...

That would be "...offer better price performance than the small bottle".

If you only count the amount of Cycloastragenol you get for the money, the prices are about the same for "Terraternal Cycloastragenol, 5mg" and "AstralFruit-NF60".

• One package of 60 pills "Terraternal Cycloastragenol, 5mg" = 300mg Cycloastragenol = $180
• Two packages of 60 pills "AstralFruit-NF60" (2,5 mg Cycloastragenol) = 300mg Cycloastragenol = $170

Oh, I see what you're saying. I got confused with Anthony's obscure wording about having 150mg or more in every bottle. I was thinking that was for a bottle of 30 caps. Or is that what "or more" refers to? Terraternal seems to be able to get away with the straightforward wording "5 mg" in their advertising; I'm not sure what sort of legal dodge this is, and whether or not it is really needed or if it really provides any legal protection, but I'm not a lawyer.

[johnross47]

What does the newest version of TA-65 contain (1 capsule)?


See attached, mystery solved.


(TA-65 is a registered trademark of Telomerase Activation Sciences, Inc. We are in no way associated with this company. We simply have had it tested for informational purposes only, for the benefit of the public. Tests were done by an independent laboratory to measure various things people considered it to contain.)

[johnross47]

It has occurred to me to ask if you are sure of the source of your sample of TA65. Could it be a phoney capsule sent to you as a red herring?

[smithx]

It has occurred to me to ask if you are sure of the source of your sample of TA65. Could it be a phoney capsule sent to you as a red herring?

That's a good point, and I also raised a question which was never addressed: if TA65 is a heretofore unknown compound, the tests which were done could potentially have mis-identified TA65 as cycloastragenol. Identifying an unknown is very difficult, since there are no spectra on file and no standards to compare against. If TA65 is an unknown which varies from cycloastragenol in 1 or 2 hydrogen positions, but has the same molecular weight, it could be very difficult to distinguish the two.

They may very well be the same compound, but I am not satisfied that this is completely proven yet.

[tommix]

Astragalus, Astragaloside IV,.. big waste of money! BIG!
Better to take fishoil, green tea...or even melatonin... it's MUCH more less expensive and does the job i thin even better.

You will NEVER see any off those manufacturers who takes it and after 5 years of taking it to look younger..it's just a non working scam. I guess it not the telomere length that meters. MAybe it just an "side effect" of something [real potential *things*] who causes it.

I was into this all telomere stuff myself, but almost every half year there are some new super duper anti-ageing molecule, supplement... sells skyrockets...after few years of nothing happens, people stop buying it, and it dies, but manufacturers got their money, they happy and looking for another miracle to sell.

We all want to get some super pill who does the job quick, and are forgetting about those little, working, things. And spending big money on big things, who does nothing..and eventually after some time-returning to those small thing who makes our bodies healthier
Like omega3, exercises, vitamins, some herbals.

Edited by tommix, 01 December 2010 - 03:32 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

It has occurred to me to ask if you are sure of the source of your sample of TA65. Could it be a phoney capsule sent to you as a red herring?

I am absolutely positive about the source.
They were unopened sealed bottles. I actually received 6 months worth.

It was not a 'single capsule'. These were sealed bottles from one of the doctors that sells it.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 01 December 2010 - 05:41 PM.

[kevin3]

Hi, I'm new to this forum but I've been following this thread for a while. I wanted to ask a few questions. Has anyone seen a increase in their telomere length yet? Are their any positive results that anyone has experienced? Please share your results. Thank you.

[GreenPower]

It has occurred to me to ask if you are sure of the source of your sample of TA65. Could it be a phoney capsule sent to you as a red herring?

I am absolutely positive about the source.
They were unopened sealed bottles. I actually received 6 months worth.

It was not a 'single capsule'. These were sealed bottles from one of the doctors that sells it.

Cheers
A

Even if TA65 was Cycloastragenol at the time when you got your delivery, this doesn't say anything about its composition before (or after) you got the delivery.

Going back to my argumentation in earlier posts (#972, #882) I think it's quite possible that the version of TA65 which was referenced in the report from Maria Blasco's lab, and which they sold before you got your bottles, was actually AIV. The results reported by the lab are much more similar to what I got from AIV than those I got from Cycloastragenol

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Greenpower,

After thinking about it, It sounds reasonable that the manufacturer can change the TA65 formulation without telling their customers.

Heck, tomorrow they can buy the cheapest astragalus root extract, without any real active ingredients at all and sell it to you. The way the label is currently done, there are no active ingredients at all except astragalus root extract that you are purchasing from them.

Basically according to the label of TA65, you are purchasing the same stuff you can buy cheaply at any vitamin store. However at the local vitamin store you don't get the marketing hype or the high $4000 price.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 02 December 2010 - 07:14 PM.

[ampaynz1]

This is some information about Sierra Sciences. Looks like the are going to bring a product to market for sale. If they had not run out of the money this might have not happened and are now being forced to get a product to market to stay alive.
Sierra Sciences has screened more than 1,000 nutraceutical extracts, and, so far, we have found five confirmed extracts that induce telomerase at weak levels. These products are likely to have some effect on human health and aging, and are in a position to be marketed immediately.
Not only have we been able to screen in smaller volumes, but our screen has become far more sensitive. We have established a "Telomerase Induction Scale" from 0 to 100, where 0 represents a chemical that does not induce telomerase, and 100 represents a chemical that induces as much telomerase as a HeLa cancer cell generates. We believe that a score of 100 would represent approximately the amount of telomerase necessary to cause a cell to become immortal.
On the Telomerase Induction Scale, C0057684 rates a 6
Since Sept 2010 Sierra Sciences has screened over 1,000 extracts of natural products and discovered 5 extracts that cause weak levels of telomerase induction.
These extracts are not as potent as our synthesized chemicals; the best one we have found to date rates a 0.6 on our Telomerase Induction Scale. However, GRAS extracts can be brought to market without FDA approval. There is currently only one telomerase activator on the market: TA-65, a nutraceutical distributed by TA Sciences. TA-65 is not strong enough to be detectable in our assay, so we cannot assign it a score, but we know it to be weaker than our recently-discovered extracts. Thus, Sierra Sciences is in a position to immediately begin licensing the strongest telomerase inducer ever to hit the market.

[Anthony_Loera]

You are incorrect.

There is Astral Fruit with RGTA.

A

[kevin3]

Does Astral Fruit have any effect on telomeres? There seems to be some controversy over all this. Basically, no one is quite sure what TA Sciences discovered as far as the "ta-65", right?

[stephen_b]

ampaynz1, you might want to quote the part that is from Sierra Sciences (select the text and press the quote icon), otherwise it's not clear which claims are yours and which from Sierra Sciences.

[GreenPower]

I think most people might have heard about Nature's article "Telomerase reactivation reverses tissue degeneration in aged telomerase-deficient mice" which they published about a week ago. If not, here's a good analysis of the article: http://anti-agingfir...com/2010/11/30/

What I find interesting is how fast the apparent age reversal in these mice was. I therefore think that If we had a fairly strong telomerase activator for humans we should see visual results much faster than we have been doing with our current regimens and that Cycloastragenol and Astragaloside IV might be quite low on this "Telomerase Induction Scale". Cycloastragenol might be good enough to, if not extend the telomeres, at least stop them from shrinking, though. But if someone is to make a sales pitch for C0057684, I would be much more interested to see how C0057684 compares with Cycloastragenol than TA65. The reason is that I do not know what "version" of TA65 which was "not strong enough to be detectable in our assay". It might as well have been Astragaloside IV. Please remember that Geron never seriously considered to try to bring AIV to market. What they did consider to bring to market was TAT002 (Cyclostragenol).

[GreenPower]

I did a little bit of reading on Sierra Sciences web site ( http://www.sierrasci...arch/index.html ) and found this:

"Disappointingly, DNA Array Analysis has suggested that C0057684 has too global an effect on the genome
to be useful as a pharmaceutical candidate. However, as discussed above, discovering this positive control
allowed us to design the HTERT RT-PCR HTS assay".

I therefore woldn't expect C0057684 to hit the market any time soon. The product they will try to bring to the market is the one which rates 0.6 on the scale.


They also mention a synthetic compound which rate rather high on this scale:
"In conjunction with Federico Gaeta, Ph.D. and NanoSyn, Inc., Sierra Sciences has synthesized 426 compounds
in our six most promising chemical families. The strongest of these chemicals rates 15.89 on our Telomerase Induction Scale".

They don't say if they have tested its global effect on the genome or whether it's harmful in human beings, though.
In either case I don't think they have the economic strength to get this compound passed the FDA and into the market.

[Anthony_Loera]

Imminst Members Only Update:
http://www.imminst.o...post__p__443263

Cheers
A

[kevin3]

Anthony, does the Resveratrol have more precedence than Astral Fruit as far as longevity? Or is it meant to supplement the Astral Fruit only? I would like to try out the telomerase activator and expirement to see if I see any results. I'm a type 1 diabetic and anxious to see if the Astral Fruit has any benefits for me. My thought was, if cells can divide and regenerate as long as their telomere length allows, maybe that would also apply to the beta cells(or other pancreatic cells) in the pancreas. Maybe a longshot, but I would like to try out. But basically, I don't know what to take and when.

[Anthony_Loera]

From our website:

"Dr. Elizabeth Blackburn won the 2009 Nobel Prize in her work regarding Telomeres and Telomerase, however during a discussion on Telomeres she distinctly mentioned that telomeres shrink at different rates depending on the type of cell it is. Since telomeres shorten at different rates depending on the type of cell and because UCLA's tests focused on the immune cells, we currently believe it may not be very accurate to say that any orally taken telomerase activator greatly helps cells other than those in your immune system. However, supporting a strong immune system is vital for longevity."

A

[ampaynz1]

Sorry about my previous post and no quotes. All but the first top two sentences were ripped from research page on sierra sciences webpage. I wish I worked for them and could test astral fruit RGTA as .6 isn't really high. Also, how high are telomerase activity of spermatogonia?? Are they immortal too?? They turn into sperm eventually. It is known that cycloastragenol does activate telomerase One test to know how good a telomerase activator is to find out how many cell divisions the cell can undergo until before senescence. From the articles I have read the previous generation 1 activators just slightly help. I wasn't too excited from the articles. I still take cycloastragenol and used to take astragaloside iv powder. However they do upregulate a more healthy younger phenotype. I will get excited when I read of 100+ cell divisions with a telomerase activator.
I once read an article that some researchers used HTERT activator to try and force pancreatic beta cells to multiply. They were able to multiply 16 times in vitro test tube. The researchers were perplexed on why they wouldn't go to 50 like epithelial cells. I remember reading that cytomegalovirus infects a susceptible genetically predisposed child. The body attacks the CMV virus and makes antibodies against it. I suspect the CMV virus infects the beta cells themselves as most viruses are too small to be seen by immune cells. The antibodies stick to pancreatic beta cells and the body kills its own pancreatic beta cells. Symptoms start after 80% of the cells are destroyed. Prevention is the key here. You might wonder how to prevent the CMV infection. All children could take BHT daily for first 25 years of life. I had some shingles (similar lipid coated virus) and killed it off completely in 2-3 days by oral and heated dissolved in mineral oil. Some people suffer for months and I was like, whatever 2days is enough for me. The BHT sticks to the virus lipid coat and allows immmune system to see it. So yes this should prevent diabetes as corticosteroids would too but devastating overall with moon facies and buffalo humpback and spider niave. Plus, corticosteroids simply allows the CMV virus to run rampant and do whatever it wants by depressing the immune system. BHT actually prevents the virus from ever entering the beta cells to begin with. If a person still has say some insulin production, then there is hope. A simple blood test after some time off exogogenous insulin will tell. If there is no insulin production, then there are no viable cells left to multiply. Say 10% are left. 1x = 20% 2x = 40% 3x = 80%. So yes, even with 5% left it is possible to recover hypothetically. With 5%, then 1x = 10% 2x = 20% 3x = 40% 4x = 80%. This is what I would assume if I were you. Assume 25% of healthy beta cells are needed for full insulin production with a moderate non sugar diet. Now take your insulin level you get from the blood test. Compare your level to what is normal and get a percentage. Say it is 20% normal. Now take this 20% and multiply by 25% and you will get 0.20 x 0.25 = 0.05 are viable cells and multiply by 100% to get 5%. So yes I see this as a good way to look at what is possible. If the level is too low, then the next step would be to make pancreatic stems cells and put them into your liver.

Anthony, does the Resveratrol have more precedence than Astral Fruit as far as longevity? Or is it meant to supplement the Astral Fruit only? I would like to try out the telomerase activator and expirement to see if I see any results. I'm a type 1 diabetic and anxious to see if the Astral Fruit has any benefits for me. My thought was, if cells can divide and regenerate as long as their telomere length allows, maybe that would also apply to the beta cells(or other pancreatic cells) in the pancreas. Maybe a longshot, but I would like to try out. But basically, I don't know what to take and when.

[kevin3]

I did read somewhere that activating the HTERT can allow skin cells to multiply possibly hundreds of times before becoming senescent. Of course every type of cell will be affected differently.

Sorry about my previous post and no quotes. All but the first top two sentences were ripped from research page on sierra sciences webpage. I wish I worked for them and could test astral fruit RGTA as .6 isn't really high. Also, how high are telomerase activity of spermatogonia?? Are they immortal too?? They turn into sperm eventually. It is known that cycloastragenol does activate telomerase One test to know how good a telomerase activator is to find out how many cell divisions the cell can undergo until before senescence. From the articles I have read the previous generation 1 activators just slightly help. I wasn't too excited from the articles. I still take cycloastragenol and used to take astragaloside iv powder. However they do upregulate a more healthy younger phenotype. I will get excited when I read of 100+ cell divisions with a telomerase activator.
I once read an article that some researchers used HTERT activator to try and force pancreatic beta cells to multiply. They were able to multiply 16 times in vitro test tube. The researchers were perplexed on why they wouldn't go to 50 like epithelial cells. I remember reading that cytomegalovirus infects a susceptible genetically predisposed child. The body attacks the CMV virus and makes antibodies against it. I suspect the CMV virus infects the beta cells themselves as most viruses are too small to be seen by immune cells. The antibodies stick to pancreatic beta cells and the body kills its own pancreatic beta cells. Symptoms start after 80% of the cells are destroyed. Prevention is the key here. You might wonder how to prevent the CMV infection. All children could take BHT daily for first 25 years of life. I had some shingles (similar lipid coated virus) and killed it off completely in 2-3 days by oral and heated dissolved in mineral oil. Some people suffer for months and I was like, whatever 2days is enough for me. The BHT sticks to the virus lipid coat and allows immmune system to see it. So yes this should prevent diabetes as corticosteroids would too but devastating overall with moon facies and buffalo humpback and spider niave. Plus, corticosteroids simply allows the CMV virus to run rampant and do whatever it wants by depressing the immune system. BHT actually prevents the virus from ever entering the beta cells to begin with. If a person still has say some insulin production, then there is hope. A simple blood test after some time off exogogenous insulin will tell. If there is no insulin production, then there are no viable cells left to multiply. Say 10% are left. 1x = 20% 2x = 40% 3x = 80%. So yes, even with 5% left it is possible to recover hypothetically. With 5%, then 1x = 10% 2x = 20% 3x = 40% 4x = 80%. This is what I would assume if I were you. Assume 25% of healthy beta cells are needed for full insulin production with a moderate non sugar diet. Now take your insulin level you get from the blood test. Compare your level to what is normal and get a percentage. Say it is 20% normal. Now take this 20% and multiply by 25% and you will get 0.20 x 0.25 = 0.05 are viable cells and multiply by 100% to get 5%. So yes I see this as a good way to look at what is possible. If the level is too low, then the next step would be to make pancreatic stems cells and put them into your liver.

Anthony, does the Resveratrol have more precedence than Astral Fruit as far as longevity? Or is it meant to supplement the Astral Fruit only? I would like to try out the telomerase activator and expirement to see if I see any results. I'm a type 1 diabetic and anxious to see if the Astral Fruit has any benefits for me. My thought was, if cells can divide and regenerate as long as their telomere length allows, maybe that would also apply to the beta cells(or other pancreatic cells) in the pancreas. Maybe a longshot, but I would like to try out. But basically, I don't know what to take and when.

[GreenPower]

Today I got the results from my fourth health check, which I did three days after ending my second 3-month period on "Standardized Astragalus Root Extract" (see below for details). I do these "conventional" tests in order to see if my overall health improves or declines during the test periods.

For reference I also include the results of my first three health checks (posted here before). These were the health checks I did before using AIV, after using AIV/before using Cycloastragenol and before using the Standardized Astragalus Root Extract.

The complete results from the health checks were as follows.

Health Check 1 - "Baseline test" before starting to use AIV
Please note that I made use of other Astragalus extracts, Gingko Biloba and was working in a stressful environment before health check 1. This may or may not have had an effect on numbers. The level of stress have remained constant during both test periods.
.
Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 103 kg.......................................
BMI: 29.7............................................<25
Blood pressure: 110/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 164................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 4.8........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 4.......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.57...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.90...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 6.7.....................................31-40 year: 3.3 - 6.9
Triglycerides: 1.1...................................0.45-2.6
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.7..................................<3.0 ng/ml

Health Check 2 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Astragaloside IV
I took AIV during two periods of 3 months, with a three week interval in between. During the first period I used 3 x 33mg and the second was 1 x 100mg + Chitosan. The second period also included the use of Orlistat (3x120mg) which I started with directly after the first period and also Gingko Biloba (1x100mg) which I used during the last six weeks.

Measuring point .....................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 96 kg........................................
BMI: 27.7............................................<25
Blood pressure: 120/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 153................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 5.3........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 10......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.44...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.55...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.1.....................................31-40 year: 3.3 - 6.9
Triglycerides: 1.4...................................0.45-2.6
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 0.9...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.9..................................<3.0 ng/ml


Health Check 3 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol
I took Cykloastragenol during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between. During both periods I used Cycloastragenol 1x5mg (including Chitosan 1mg), Gingko Biloba 1x100mg, Orlistat 2-3x120mg.

Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 94,8 kg......................................
BMI: 27.4............................................<25
Blood pressure: 115/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 146................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 5.3........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 6.......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 88.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.48...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.56...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.0.....................................31-50 year: 3.3 - 6.9 mmol/l
Triglycerides: 1.0...................................0.45-2.6 mmol/l
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.9..................................<3.0 ng/ml


Health Check 4 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Standardized Astragalus Root Extract
I took Standardized Astragalus Root Extract during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between.
Period 1 - details

• During the first period I used 2 x Ginkgo Biloba (100 mg, corresponding to 24 mg flavonoid glycosides and 6 mg terpenoids), one in the morning and one in the afternoon, most often taken together with Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg).
• During this period I also completed one round of "Adidas miCoach Get Fit Stay Fit - Level 4". I managed a 90% success rate on this activity.
• At the end of the period I started meditating 20 minutes around lunch time on working days. I estimate I managed a 90% success rate on this activity.
• At the end of the period I had to decrease the dose of Gingko Biloba to 1 x Gingko Biloba, taken around lunch time (see earlier post for explanation).
• I frequently used Orlistat 2x120mg when eating meals with fat (maybe 50% of the time).

Period 2 - details

• During the second period I used 1 x Ginkgo Biloba (100 mg, corresponding to 24 mg flavonoid glycosides and 6 mg terpenoids), around lunchtime. Both in the morning and in the evening I took 1 x Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg).
• During the period I meditated 20 minutes around lunch time on working days. I estimate I managed a 90% success rate with this. I had to phase out the Adidas miCoach program because the weather turned to cold (autumn and winter).
• I frequently used Orlistat 1-2x120mg when eating meals with fat (maybe 30% of the time) but phased it out and have instead started with LCHF-diet (Low Fat - High Carb). The reason for LCHF is that someone in this thread suggested that I read the arguments "from the other side" of the debate about cholesterol. Because I found the arguments quite sound I thought I would include this in my regimen. I do have some troubles to completely avoid fast carbohydrates, though. I guess I have about 80-90% success rate.
• During the first two months of this three month period I managed to get time off from work during Fridays. I recovered a substantial amount of lost sleep, but lost some of it during the third month.

Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 95 kg........................................
BMI: 27.4............................................<25
Blood pressure: 120/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 158................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 3.5........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 17......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.43...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.56...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.6.....................................31-50 year: 3.3 - 6.9 mmol/l
Triglycerides: 1.2...................................0.45-2.6 mmol/l
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.6..................................<3.0 ng/ml
S-Kalium (Potassium): 4.0............................2.6-5.0 (note: this test was actually taken a few days later. the original result was way to high and I had to do the test again. the explanation I got for the first (high) value was that they applied to much pressure with some kind of bracelet, which supposedly crushed many red blood cells, setting free more kalium)


Comments

• I'm phasing out Orlistat because it no longer have the desired affect. Instead I'm increasingly doing LCHF.
• Although I've been doing LCHF for quite some time, my cholesterol values didn't increase that much (+12%). There might have been a decreasing effect from me still sometimes using Orlistat. It can also be an effect of me radically decreasing the amount of carbohydrates, which is supposed to increase the turnover of fat into ketones and glycerol - hence putting a lid on the maximum amount of fat in the bloodstream.
• Triglycerides was up some +20%. I think I can exclude "calories ingested in a meal and not used immediately by tissues are converted to triglycerides and transported to fat cells to be stored" as a reason, because I've not gained in weight. I've been consuming much more fat, though, and my interpretation is that LCHF has had an effect on this value.
• My blood sugar value went down rather much, though (-44%). This is what I would expect from decreasing the amount of (mostly fast) carbohydrates.
• The blood value increased about +8%. I think this can be contributed to the standardized Astragalus probably containing more iron than Cycloastragenol.
• The ASAT liver value was -10% lower but the ALAT liver value was unchanged.
• The sedimentation rate was increased by some whopping +280%, which would mean I had more "inflammation" in the body at the time the sample was taken compared with my last health check. I did not feel sick the day of the test, though. I wonder if this result might have anything to do with the bracelet I mentioned above (see Kalium/Potassium).
• Kidney values were slightly lower (-12%), which might indicate a slightly increased kidney filtration capacity. It might also had indicated that I was eating less protein (for example meat contains creatine, but as I understand it, this will only show on tests a few hours after the meal and I don't eat breakfast before doing these tests - and I've been eating a lot of meat lately), that I was drinking too much water before the test was done (unknown if I did), or that my muscle mass have decreased (my skeletal muscles have been stable, increasing a non-significant bit, though). As noted earlier, the Astragalus extracts I've tried, seem to have a diuretic effect.
• Although my eyesight reads unchanged in the test results, I had serious difficulties to clearly "see the last line of characters" with my right eye. I might therefore have gotten a bit more nearsighted on this eye. Which is interesting, because I think that in most people of my age this value should be stable. My optician haven't changed the strength of my glasses/lenses in about 20 years and I think I might pay her a visit again next year.
• PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen) was about 40% lower. This is interesting because it have remained the exact same values (0.9) during my two last health checks.

Test results I'm still waiting for

• FLOW-Fish test, handled by a Canadian lab.
• Cortisol, DHEA, Testosterone and Melatonin. These are handled by a lab somewhere in the United States. I thought of changing this to a European lab, but haven't got around to do this.

Edited by GreenPower, 08 December 2010 - 07:29 PM.

[johnross47]

I notice on the regime posted by Bill Andrews on his new fan pages that he takes 100mg TA65 daily!!! (Still claims it is the only telomerase activator on the market). What information is there on the safe dose of Astral Fruit in the light of this?

[Anthony_Loera]

The recommended dose is stated on our bottle.

However, I am not sure what you are asking. Are you stating Bill Andrews dosage for people so they can then compare it with Astral Fruit?
Astral Fruit's RGTA complex is over 523mg per capsule, and it is recommended to take at each meal for the week that you have scheduled it's intake.

You would then skip a week, and hopefully take micronized resveratrol and MGP16 durring your week that you do not take the RGTA complex.

A

[johnross47]

Bill's Guide to Extending Your Lifespan

Bill Andrews, Ph.D.



If you want to extend your lifespan and health span 5-10 years, then do everything that I do that is listed below. But, if you want to extend your lifespan and health span more than 5-10 years and possibly hundreds of years (i.e. Cure Aging) then still do everything that I do AS WELL AS invest in finding a telomerase inducer to prevent the shortening of your telomeres.

Take TA-65, 100 mg/day (see www.tasciences.com) (also see our publication in Rejuvenation Research: http://www.lieberton...9/rej.2010.1085).
Take Omega 3 Fatty Acids, 2.4 grams/day (i.e. 1.4 grams EPA and 1.0 grams DHA per day). I use the product found here. 1
Take Vitamin D3, 10,000 IU per day until the vitamin D3 levels in your blood reach 60-100 ng/ml. Then go to 5,000 IU per day to maintain that level. I use the product found here. 2
Take Carnosine, 1 gram per day. I use the product found here. 3
Take Resveratrol, 250 mg/day. I use the product found here. 4
Take Antioxidants such as Vitamin C and Vitamin E. I'm meeting with an expert on this subject on September 16 to get better information about dosage, etc. 5
Exercise intensely. 6
Reduce stress in your life (e.g., meditate). 7
Reduce depression. 8


Maintain a healthy weight and don't smoke. 9
Be optimistic about living long and don't be pessimistic. 2
1. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20085953

Edited by johnross47, 09 December 2010 - 07:47 PM.

[johnross47]

when I was studying statistics ( for a psychology degree) the rule was one variable only. If you vary more than one parameter you can't reach any conclusion. He is taking so many different substances it is impossible to ascribe the benefits to any single component.Some of his claimed benefits sound as if they may result from his use of carnosine, benfotiamine etc.

Edited by johnross47, 09 December 2010 - 07:51 PM.

[GreenPower]

I have now got the results from my latest FLOW-Fish test of "Standardised Astragalus Root Extract". This time the results are a bit more interesting.

For comparison I've also got data from three earlier tests.

• Baseline Test
• After 6 months on Astragaloside IV
• After 6 months on Cycloastragenol

In order to not repeat to many of my results you can look at the details of the data from these tests in post #787. In post #1073 you can see the details on the execution of my last test of 6 months on "Standardized Astragalus Root Extract". For all tests, I had the lab analyze the Standard Deviation

SUMMARY OF COLLECTED DATA
Astragaloside IV
6 months on AIV and Gingko Biloba + 3 last months on Orlistat rendered the following changes from my baseline values:
Lymphocytes: 7.5-7.0 = reduction of 0.5 kb
Granulocytes: 9.1-7.4 = reduction of 1.7 kb
Naive T-cells: 8.3-7.9 = reduction of 0.4 kb
Memory T-cells: 6.3-5.6 = reduction of 0.7 kb
B cells: 8.2-8.1 = reduction of 0.1 kb
NK cells: 4.5-4.0 = reduction of 0.5 kb

When using Astragaloside IV the Standard Deviations changed from
Lymphocytes: 0.6 to 0
Granulocytes: 1.2 to 0
Naive T-cells: 0.4 to 0
Memory T-cells: 0.7 to 0
B cells: 0.7 to 0
NK cells: 0.7 to 0

Cycloastragenol
6 months on Cycloastragenol (including Chitosan) and Gingko Biloba and Orlistat rendered the following changes from the last period.
Lymphocytes: 7.0-7.0 = No change
Granulocytes: 7.4-7.3 = reduction of 0.1 kb
Naive T-cells: 7.9-7.9 = No change
Memory T-cells: 5.6-5.7 = Increase of 0.1 kb
B cells: 8.1-8.2 = Increase 0.1 kb
NK cells: 4.0-4.1 = Increase of 0.1 kb

When using Cycloastragenol the Standard Deviations changed from
Lymphocytes: 0 to 0.2
Granulocytes: Still 0
Naive T-cells: 0 to 0.3
Memory T-cells: 0 to 0.2
B cells: 0 to 0.2
NK cells: 0 to 0.3

"Standardised Astragalus Root Extract"
6 months on Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) including Raw Astragalus Root Powder, Gingko Biloba, Orlistat (phasing out), "Adidas miCoach Get Fit Stay Fit - Level 4" (3-4 months) and Meditation (3-4 months) rendered the following changes from the last period.

Lymphocytes: 7.0-6.9 = reduction of 0.1 kb
Granulocytes: 7.3-7.6 =Increase of 0.3 kb
Naive T-cells: 7.9-8.1 = Increase of 0.2 kb
Memory T-cells: 5.7-5.8 = Increase of 0.1 kb
B cells: 8.2-8.2 = No change
NK cells: 4.1-5.9 = Increase of 1.8 kb

When using Cycloastragenol the Standard Deviations changed from
Lymphocytes: 0.2 to 0.0
Granulocytes: 0 to 0.1
Naive T-cells: 0 .3 to 0.0
Memory T-cells: 0.2 to 0.0
B cells: 0.2 to 0.0
NK cells: 0.3 to 0.2


ANALYSIS/DISCUSSION
Using Astragaloside IV had a quite large negative effect on the telomere lengths. All of the telomeres in the measured cell types decreased in length. Several of the changes were quite large and well outside the possible fault limits of the test. Based on these results and the similar results Anthony had, I would hesitate to recommend anyone from taking Astragaloside IV as a supplement.

Using Cycloastragenol had a more neutral result. The changes were within the fault limits of the test, but at least 75% of the cell types which showed any change at all showed a slight increase in telomere length. I'm still waiting to see the results Anthony got from his test. If they are posted in this thread I must have missed them.

Using "Standardised Astragalus Root Extract" (+ physical training, meditation, less work, gingko biloba, orlistat and LCHF ) had a more interesting result. The median telomere length of my NK cells increased in length by a whopping 1 800 base pairs. This is an increase with 44 percent and well outside the error margin of the test!

I think the changes in MTL for the other types of cells where within the error margin of the test, but personally I think it looks better to have most of them on the plus side than on the minus side. From a subjective point of view I'm especially pleased to see that the potential lengthening of the MTL of the granulocytes where close to being outside the error margin of the test, since they got kind of slaughtered when I used Astragaloside IV.

I've mailed the lab to ask if they still have the same error margin as was previously mentioned in this thread, or if they have narrowed it down.

So what do I believe is the reason to this change in MTL in my natural killer cells? Because, as johnross47 brings up, I use a composite regimen, I don't think its possible to draw any conclusions for certain. You might apply some logic in order to exclude some factors, though.

• The lab might have mixed up my blood with someone else, but then again, the other values are very similar to what I've been having on earlier tests - which speaks against this theory.
• It might be the Astragalus extract, but then again, why was my initial baseline values for the NK cells so low when I've been using this extract before? If it's the Astragalus extract, the effect might only be temporary. On the other side, some of my baseline values where much better than the MTLN.
• It might be me starting training, but then again, I only did that during the first half of the test period.
• This sort of leaves "less work", "meditation" and "LCHF" as factors which I haven't been trying before.

FUTURE TESTS
Because I still have 18 months supply left of Cycloastragenol I will use it during my next "test run", but will double the dose compared with before (which actually makes it enough for only 9 months). If possible I will also try to keep on with my meditation and also buy a new yearly card at the gym and start training again. I will also change work place. I'll probably not earn as much money as before, but it might be worth to (hopefully) be loosing some of the stress.


TEST RESULTS I'M STILL WAITING FOR
Cortisol, DHEA, Testosterone and Melatonin.

Attached Thumbnails

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[johnross47]

absolutely fascinating results.

[motorcitykid]

I have now got the results from my latest FLOW-Fish test of "Standardised Astragalus Root Extract". This time the results are a bit more interesting.

For comparison I've also got data from three earlier tests.

• Baseline Test
• After 6 months on Astragaloside IV
• After 6 months on Cycloastragenol[...]

Thanks Green

Edited by Michael, 24 May 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[smithx]

Greenpower: thanks for posting all this data.

Can you say what astragalus supplement you used? The only one I found which was listed as "0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides" was Solgar SFP Astragalus (http://www.houseofnu...Vcaps&ovtac=CMP) but this is now listed on Solgar's site as "triterpene glycosides, 0.5%" (http://www.solgar.co...le-Capsules.htm). Now foods, on the other hand states that it is (Standardized to min. 70% Polysaccharides), but doesn't mention glucosides(http://www.nowfoods....rbs & Mushrooms).

Thanks in advance.

Edited by smithx, 11 December 2010 - 09:57 AM.