2189 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Mike,

I suggest taking ov er 25 to 45 grams a day of regular astragalus to get close to our suggested daily intake of Cycloastragenol we offer, if you can't afford the capsules.

For everyone else who would prefer not carrying around a bush of astragalus, you are welcomed to buy our product with 3 telomerase support ingredients.

Cheers
A

[GreenPower]

Thought I would report back on this.

We did go to the Dr. He tested her FSH, LH, estradiol, testosterone and did a Pap Smear. Everything was completely normal.

Our doctor uses hormones including HGH. He said about 25% of his post-menopausal women get a resumption of menses for a month or two and then they cease again. He considered it completely normal. While my wife was waiting for results she ceased taking AstralFruit-NF and the menses stopped. She has since resumed and had very minor spotting for a week or two but that has now ceased as well.

As a side note I traded the doctor a bottle of AstralFruit-NF for an office visit. The next time I saw him he said, "That stuff is fantastic. It's like being on speed. I've taken a lot of stuff and I can't be fooled. The one day I didn't take it I realized how tired I had been feeling." Interesting…

And finally I'm still taking the old formula one day and the –NF the second day. A noticeable energy difference between the two (higher for -NF). A month ago I laid off for 3 days and had a very noticeable energy sag. I saw in the reports from TA that people were reporting higher energy levels as well.

If you're only after the "energy boost", any ordinary Astragalus extract are likely to be more cost efficient. The effect may be lower, but more so is the price. Have you tried "plain vanilla Astragalus"?

[Anthony_Loera]

You can also join Imminst.org and get a paying member discount.

A

What is the discount

Hi Mike, it is 40% off for folks who take advantage of Imminst.org membership in December:

If you are already a member, the member link is below that shows Decembers discount code:
http://www.imminst.o...post__p__443263

A

[mikeinnaples]

Mike,

I suggest taking ov er 25 to 45 grams a day of regular astragalus to get close to our suggested daily intake of Cycloastragenol we offer, if you can't afford the capsules.

For everyone else who would prefer not carrying around a bush of astragalus, you are welcomed to buy our product with 3 telomerase support ingredients.

Cheers
A

Lets be real here, if I could afford 45 grams a day of an extract, I could more than afford your product ...so lets not be silly. Hopefully you get some competition soon, or put the old product back out, cause I just can't hang with the new price.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 21 December 2010 - 11:29 AM.

[malbecman]

and from the Healthy Skeptic series of articles...


http://www.latimes.c...0,5791340.story


The Healthy Skeptic: telomerase activators
Pricey telomerase supplements, touted as longevity boosters, are unproven.

By Chris Woolston, Special to the Los Angeles Times
December 20, 2010


We all know what aging looks like from the outside: wrinkled skin, gray hair, a growing need to turn up the volume on "Jeopardy." But in recent years, scientists have made some breakthrough discoveries about how we age on the inside, right down to our genes. The science of aging has created a glimmer of hope that we could someday slow the process — a dream that has already spread beyond the lab to the marketplace.

Anti-aging research used to be mainly about finding new ways to get lab mice to take their vitamins. But if you visited a lab today, you'd be more likely to hear scientists talking excitedly about telomeres, protective strands of DNA at the end of chromosomes that seem to play an important — some would say crucial — role in aging.

Whenever a healthy cell divides, the telomeres get a little shorter. In fact, you could tell a lot about the age of a person simply by looking at the length of his or her telomeres. Studies have found that in people older than 60, short telomeres are one sign that the end may be relatively near: Older people with short telomeres seem to be especially vulnerable to disease, including heart disease and infections. But telomeres aren't as reliable as a clock or even a tree ring. Recent studies suggest that you can help your telomeres stay relatively long and youthful if you get regular exercise, eat a healthful diet and avoid stress.

At a time when people are willing to spend big bucks to look and feel younger, it's not surprising that telomeres have become a buzzword in the supplement industry. One expensive option, TA-65, supposedly works by stimulating telomerase, a natural enzyme that helps restore telomeres after a cell divides. (The TA stands for "telomerase activator.")

Created by Geron Corp., a biotech research company, TA-65 contains extracts of astragalus, an herb often used as an immunity-booster in traditional Chinese medicine. Although TA-65 is legally classified as a dietary supplement, TA Sciences, the company that bought the licensing rights from Geron, makes it available only through select doctors who have paid a fee and have passed a test on telomere biology. Seven doctors offer TA-65 in California, including two in Los Angeles, according to the company website.

When TA-65 was first released in 2007, patients spent $25,000 a year on the supplement and accompanying tests. Now patients spend $1,200 to $4,000 for a six-month supply, depending on the dose. The company recommends taking the supplement for two years. Patients must spend an additional $500 on doctor's fees, and they have the option of spending several hundred to a couple of thousand dollars more on tests to check the results.

Reneuve, a supplement sold online, supposedly lengthens telomeres by giving users an extra-large dose of telomerase. You won't see telomerase in the list of ingredients, but Reneuve does offer "select proprietary glandular extracts" from pig thymuses that provide "enough telomerase enzyme for the cellular infrastructure of one adult."

A single 30-milliliter vial of Reneuve purchased through the company website costs $250. Users are instructed to drink the vial in a single sitting, perhaps with some Mountain Dew or Gatorade. The effects are said to last six months.

Claims

The TA Science website says the company "is the first and only … in the world to offer Telomerase-Activating products to combat the effects of aging through leading-edge science." Company founder Noel Patton says, "Our product is not the fountain of youth. You won't miraculously turn into a 20-year-old again. But it is a fountain of youth for certain cells."

Specifically, Patton says, the product will "strengthen and rejuvenate" the immune system. He points to an unpublished company-run study that compared an astragalus supplement similar to TA-65 to a placebo in 36 men ages 60 to 85. The study reportedly found that men who took the supplement for six months developed stronger immune system cells, better eyesight, improved sexual satisfaction and younger-looking skin. He also says that tests paid for by patients show that the supplement improves bone density, cognitive function, cholesterol levels and control of blood sugar.

The Reneuve website says the product uses " Nobel Prize-winning technology to supply immune-system enhancing and anti-aging enzymes to the body." It also says that, thanks to Reneuve, "aging is now a choice, not a fact." Rasjesh Sharma, the chief scientific officer of Reneuve, declined to be interviewed but said in an e-mail that the supplement helps replace the telomerase that people make naturally until they turn 25.

The bottom line

Dr. Richard Cawthon, who studies the link between telomeres and disease at the University of Utah School of Medicine in Salt Lake City, says he would love to take an anti-aging supplement, but he's not willing to part with several thousand dollars for TA-65. "Even if I could afford it, it's still too early in the research," he says. The benefits for now are unclear, he adds, and there's still the possibility of undesirable side effects.

As for Reneuve, "that's nonsense," says Peter Hornsby, professor of physiology at the Barshop Institute for Longevity and Aging Studies at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio. Any enzyme in the supplement would be quickly broken down in the digestive system, he says.

Research with mice suggests that telomerase is a double-edged enzyme. A study published in the journal Nature last month showed that activating telomerase seemed to reverse aging in decrepit mice that had been genetically engineered to lack a working version of the enzyme. But other studies have found that stimulating telomerase in mice raises the risk of cancer. (Patton says that, to his knowledge, no one has developed cancer while taking TA-65.)

So far, TA-65 has been tested in just one published study (which is still one more than Reneuve). This year, Geron Corp. researchers reported in the journal Rejuvenation Research that TA-65 boosted the activity of telomerase in 114 people who took the supplement for a year. The supplements also seemed to lengthen the telomeres of some immune system cells.

Still, Hornsby points out that a single study in a not-especially-prestigious journal doesn't come close to answering all of the questions about the anti-aging potential of TA-65. He says scientists aren't even sure that short telomeres contribute to the classic signs of growing old. They could just be byproducts of aging, not the driving force.

Hornsby sees another issue: If TA-65 is really tinkering with people's chromosomes, it should be classified as a drug. As it is, the supplement has never gone through any of the testing or Food and Drug Administration oversight required of prescription drugs.

Curious about a consumer health product? Send an e-mail to health@latimes.com. Read more at latimes.com/skeptic.


(edited a typo...)

Edited by malbecman, 22 December 2010 - 12:42 AM.

[JKDC]

It would be nice to have a published study on TA-65. I am anxiously awaiting some real competition so it can be affordable for more people. Around the $50 per month price point would be nice.

[Anthony_Loera]

JKDC,

$50? Sounds like you are talking about the price of RGTA with cycloastragenol, using the member discount.

Consider joining Imminst.org, instead of just being a registered user.
The Telomerase product discount ends December 31st:

Here is the link to become a member:
http://www.imminst.org/donate/


A

[RCW]

Thought I would report back on this.

We did go to the Dr. He tested her FSH, LH, estradiol, testosterone and did a Pap Smear. Everything was completely normal.

Our doctor uses hormones including HGH. He said about 25% of his post-menopausal women get a resumption of menses for a month or two and then they cease again. He considered it completely normal. While my wife was waiting for results she ceased taking AstralFruit-NF and the menses stopped. She has since resumed and had very minor spotting for a week or two but that has now ceased as well.

As a side note I traded the doctor a bottle of AstralFruit-NF for an office visit. The next time I saw him he said, "That stuff is fantastic. It's like being on speed. I've taken a lot of stuff and I can't be fooled. The one day I didn't take it I realized how tired I had been feeling." Interesting…

And finally I'm still taking the old formula one day and the –NF the second day. A noticeable energy difference between the two (higher for -NF). A month ago I laid off for 3 days and had a very noticeable energy sag. I saw in the reports from TA that people were reporting higher energy levels as well.

If you're only after the "energy boost", any ordinary Astragalus extract are likely to be more cost efficient. The effect may be lower, but more so is the price. Have you tried "plain vanilla Astragalus"?

I was taking an Astragalus extract from TriLight (extracted in glycerine.) Didn't really notice any energy benefit or anything else for that matter. While I love the energy boost I'm also banking on the telomerase effect. And as with most reports I have seen it also sharpens my vision and increases my sexual energy.

[johnross47]

You can also join Imminst.org and get a paying member discount.

A

What is the discount

Hi Mike, it is 40% off for folks who take advantage of Imminst.org membership in December:

If you are already a member, the member link is below that shows Decembers discount code:
http://www.imminst.o...post__p__443263

A

A reduced membership for pensioners would be helpful. We are, after all, the group with the most urgent need for some way of slowing down ageing, but often the group with the least resources.

[Zaion]

I am planning to take Astragalus and Purslane extracts.
I saw people in this forum alternating this stuff with telomerase inhibitors such as gingseng, garlic and resveratrol.
Some are alternating every few hours, some every week or even every month.
What is better and why?

[JKDC]

No one knows for sure. There is a theory that those substances will inactivate the telomerase activator. I haven't started taking one yet but one would need to take it long enough for it to do some good. At least two week cycles would be my minimum probably longer though. Look up the TA-65 protocol and see what they are doing. I thought they were taking it 6 months per year or maybe longer.

Edited by JKDC, 26 December 2010 - 09:36 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

The NF formula with RGTA is recommended to be taken every other week, whenever possible.

Cheers
A

[GreenPower]

I've watched the first 59 minutes of the above video so far, and I've noticed that TA-65 does have one side effect: it causes memory difficulties. 100% of the speakers who've been taking it failed to remember a question for two minutes.

It may be a transient side effect of lowered blood glucose.

Some readers in this thread might remember the above video, which seem to have been removed. We did think it rather funny at the time. Why do I bring it up you might wonder. The reason is that I've been trying to raise my dose of Cycloastragenol to 3x5mg a couple of times and then seem to experience a similar effect.

I've ruled out lowered blood glucose because I didn't experience this effect during my last six month period - in which I according to the test at the end of the period actually had low blood glucose (the period when I used "standardised Astragagalus extract" and practiced LCHF). I also didn't experience it earlier when only using 1x5 mg Cycloastragenol. When going back to taking 2x5 mg I still experience it but to a much lesser extent. I therefore think this might be a side-effect of using higher doses of Cycloastragenol. It might be that this effect will disappear with time, as I get used with higher doses. Any way, because this side effect is incompatible with my line of work, this mean I'm currently doing 2x5 mg instead of 3x5 mg (+ Gingko Biloba).

Have anyone experienced the same side effect with higher doses of Cycloastragenol?

[johnross47]

Not with high doses of cycloastragenol. I may not have gone high enough....3 capsules. I am, however, now seeing a repeating pattern of nasty side effects of the new formula. Insomnia, acid stomach and acid taste in mouth, mouth ulcers,and as the week goes on, looser stools at the start becoming diarrhoea by the end. The first week on, it was mild but each week it has become stronger and now in the fourth week on it has become unacceptable and I have had to cut back to one capsule a day. It's a bit much to pay £70 for a few weeks of something that hasn't been tested properly, particularly when its benefits are a closely guarded secret. Clinical trial subjects at least get paid for their pains. We have to pay to stick our necks out. No more! Bring back simple cycloastragenol.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi John,

I am a young guy that will be turning 40 this year, take no meds, and I have none of the issues you state with the new formula.

Others reported no issues as well, on the contrary... more energy, and no side effects.

Do you take mastergene and micronized resveratrol like we are reccomending?

A

[omegaman]

I am taking Astral Fruit NF and I don't have any side effects or any noticable energy boost. The dosage I am taking is 2 capsules per day which is equivalent to 5mg per day of Cycloastragenol. I haven't taken it at a higher dosage so it is possible the extra ingredients in the new formula may cause unforseen side effects at higher doses. I am not taking Resveratrol or Master Gene at all, or any other supplement.

[tintinet]

I also take 2 Astral Fruit NF, alternated with fairly high doses of resveratrol. I don't notice any effects from either.

[motorcitykid]

Today I got the results from my fourth health check, which I did three days after ending my second 3-month period on "Standardized Astragalus Root Extract" (see below for details). I do these "conventional" tests in order to see if my overall health improves or declines during the test periods.

For reference I also include the results of my first three health checks (posted here before). These were the health checks I did before using AIV, after using AIV/before using Cycloastragenol and before using the Standardized Astragalus Root Extract.

The complete results from the health checks were as follows.

Health Check 1 - "Baseline test" before starting to use AIV
Please note that I made use of other Astragalus extracts, Gingko Biloba and was working in a stressful environment before health check 1. This may or may not have had an effect on numbers. The level of stress have remained constant during both test periods.
.
Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 103 kg.......................................
BMI: 29.7............................................<25
Blood pressure: 110/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 164................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 4.8........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 4.......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.57...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.90...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 6.7.....................................31-40 year: 3.3 - 6.9
Triglycerides: 1.1...................................0.45-2.6
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.7..................................<3.0 ng/ml

Health Check 2 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Astragaloside IV
I took AIV during two periods of 3 months, with a three week interval in between. During the first period I used 3 x 33mg and the second was 1 x 100mg + Chitosan. The second period also included the use of Orlistat (3x120mg) which I started with directly after the first period and also Gingko Biloba (1x100mg) which I used during the last six weeks.

Measuring point .....................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 96 kg........................................
BMI: 27.7............................................<25
Blood pressure: 120/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 153................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 5.3........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 10......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.44...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.55...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.1.....................................31-40 year: 3.3 - 6.9
Triglycerides: 1.4...................................0.45-2.6
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 0.9...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.9..................................<3.0 ng/ml


Health Check 3 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Cycloastragenol
I took Cykloastragenol during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between. During both periods I used Cycloastragenol 1x5mg (including Chitosan 1mg), Gingko Biloba 1x100mg, Orlistat 2-3x120mg.

Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 94,8 kg......................................
BMI: 27.4............................................<25
Blood pressure: 115/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 146................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 5.3........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 6.......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 88.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.48...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.56...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.0.....................................31-50 year: 3.3 - 6.9 mmol/l
Triglycerides: 1.0...................................0.45-2.6 mmol/l
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.9..................................<3.0 ng/ml


Health Check 4 - Monday, two days after ending six months on Standardized Astragalus Root Extract
I took Standardized Astragalus Root Extract during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between.
Period 1 - details

• During the first period I used 2 x Ginkgo Biloba (100 mg, corresponding to 24 mg flavonoid glycosides and 6 mg terpenoids), one in the morning and one in the afternoon, most often taken together with Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg).
• During this period I also completed one round of "Adidas miCoach Get Fit Stay Fit - Level 4". I managed a 90% success rate on this activity.
• At the end of the period I started meditating 20 minutes around lunch time on working days. I estimate I managed a 90% success rate on this activity.
• At the end of the period I had to decrease the dose of Gingko Biloba to 1 x Gingko Biloba, taken around lunch time (see earlier post for explanation).
• I frequently used Orlistat 2x120mg when eating meals with fat (maybe 50% of the time).

Period 2 - details

• During the second period I used 1 x Ginkgo Biloba (100 mg, corresponding to 24 mg flavonoid glycosides and 6 mg terpenoids), around lunchtime. Both in the morning and in the evening I took 1 x Astragalus Root Extract (0.5% glucosides, 70% polysaccharides) 225 mg, Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250 mg).
• During the period I meditated 20 minutes around lunch time on working days. I estimate I managed a 90% success rate with this. I had to phase out the Adidas miCoach program because the weather turned to cold (autumn and winter).
• I frequently used Orlistat 1-2x120mg when eating meals with fat (maybe 30% of the time) but phased it out and have instead started with LCHF-diet (Low Fat - High Carb). The reason for LCHF is that someone in this thread suggested that I read the arguments "from the other side" of the debate about cholesterol. Because I found the arguments quite sound I thought I would include this in my regimen. I do have some troubles to completely avoid fast carbohydrates, though. I guess I have about 80-90% success rate.
• During the first two months of this three month period I managed to get time off from work during Fridays. I recovered a substantial amount of lost sleep, but lost some of it during the third month.

Measuring point......................................Reference value
Length: 186 cm.......................................
Weight: 95 kg........................................
BMI: 27.4............................................<25
Blood pressure: 120/70...............................140/80
EKG (ECG): OK........................................
PEF (lung capacity): OK..............................
UA (Urin analysis): OK...............................
HB (Blood value): 158................................Men: 134-170
B-Glucosis (blood sugar): 3.5........................4.0-6.0
SR/ESR (sedimentation rate): 17......................<20
Creatinine (kidneys): 78.............................Men: <100
ASAT (liver): 0.43...................................Men: <0.76
ALAT (liver): 0.56...................................Men: <1.2
Cholesterol: 5.6.....................................31-50 year: 3.3 - 6.9 mmol/l
Triglycerides: 1.2...................................0.45-2.6 mmol/l
Hearing: OK..........................................
Vision (using lenses): Left 1.0, Right 1.0...........
Colour vision: OK....................................
PSA (prostate): 0.6..................................<3.0 ng/ml
S-Kalium (Potassium): 4.0............................2.6-5.0 (note: this test was actually taken a few days later. the original result was way to high and I had to do the test again. the explanation I got for the first (high) value was that they applied to much pressure with some kind of bracelet, which supposedly crushed many red blood cells, setting free more kalium)


Comments

• I'm phasing out Orlistat because it no longer have the desired affect. Instead I'm increasingly doing LCHF.
• Although I've been doing LCHF for quite some time, my cholesterol values didn't increase that much (+12%). There might have been a decreasing effect from me still sometimes using Orlistat. It can also be an effect of me radically decreasing the amount of carbohydrates, which is supposed to increase the turnover of fat into ketones and glycerol - hence putting a lid on the maximum amount of fat in the bloodstream.
• Triglycerides was up some +20%. I think I can exclude "calories ingested in a meal and not used immediately by tissues are converted to triglycerides and transported to fat cells to be stored" as a reason, because I've not gained in weight. I've been consuming much more fat, though, and my interpretation is that LCHF has had an effect on this value.
• My blood sugar value went down rather much, though (-44%). This is what I would expect from decreasing the amount of (mostly fast) carbohydrates.
• The blood value increased about +8%. I think this can be contributed to the standardized Astragalus probably containing more iron than Cycloastragenol.
• The ASAT liver value was -10% lower but the ALAT liver value was unchanged.
• The sedimentation rate was increased by some whopping +280%, which would mean I had more "inflammation" in the body at the time the sample was taken compared with my last health check. I did not feel sick the day of the test, though. I wonder if this result might have anything to do with the bracelet I mentioned above (see Kalium/Potassium).
• Kidney values were slightly lower (-12%), which might indicate a slightly increased kidney filtration capacity. It might also had indicated that I was eating less protein (for example meat contains creatine, but as I understand it, this will only show on tests a few hours after the meal and I don't eat breakfast before doing these tests - and I've been eating a lot of meat lately), that I was drinking too much water before the test was done (unknown if I did), or that my muscle mass have decreased (my skeletal muscles have been stable, increasing a non-significant bit, though). As noted earlier, the Astragalus extracts I've tried, seem to have a diuretic effect.
• Although my eyesight reads unchanged in the test results, I had serious difficulties to clearly "see the last line of characters" with my right eye. I might therefore have gotten a bit more nearsighted on this eye. Which is interesting, because I think that in most people of my age this value should be stable. My optician haven't changed the strength of my glasses/lenses in about 20 years and I think I might pay her a visit again next year.
• PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen) was about 40% lower. This is interesting because it have remained the exact same values (0.9) during my two last health checks.

Test results I'm still waiting for

• FLOW-Fish test, handled by a Canadian lab.
• Cortisol, DHEA, Testosterone and Melatonin. These are handled by a lab somewhere in the United States. I thought of changing this to a European lab, but haven't got around to do this.

Green I'm wondering if frequency of male ejaculation has any effect on telomere length. I know this subject has been sort of addressed here and other forums but I still have questions and doubts about the conclusions reached. The nematode worm study, the lengthy life span of eunuchs, and the fact that flowers live longer if not pollinated tells me that we are not getting the whole picture on this subject.

I'm not sure if keeping it in our pants would help maintain telomere length, but I would like to know more about your own patent protocol.

Has your level of sexual activity been consistent at the onset and throughout the months of your telomere testing phase?

You've been recording dietary and lifestyle changes so why not factor in the frequency of ejaculation? It could be the missing piece of the puzzle.

[GreenPower]

Green I'm wondering if frequency of male ejaculation has any effect on telomere length. I know this subject has been sort of addressed here and other forums but I still have questions and doubts about the conclusions reached. The nematode worm study, the lengthy life span of eunuchs, and the fact that flowers live longer if not pollinated tells me that we are not getting the whole picture on this subject.

I'm not sure if keeping it in our pants would help maintain telomere length, but I would like to know more about your own patent protocol.

Has your level of sexual activity been consistent at the onset and throughout the months of your telomere testing phase?

You've been recording dietary and lifestyle changes so why not factor in the frequency of ejaculation? It could be the missing piece of the puzzle.

I have to confess I haven't really been focusing on this area.

In general I would say that the frequency went up a bit when using "standardised Astragalus extract", but that might have been a side effect of feeling more energized in general.
I didn't really pay attention to it at the time, but I think there was a similar but slightly lower effect when using AIV - but then again, it was not "pure" AIV but a mix with ordinary Astragalus.
When using Cycloastragenol (with Chitosan) I would say that the frequency have been about normal, that is, slightly lower than when using "standardised Astragalus extract". The frequency have been constant regardless of whether I've been taking 1x5mg, 2x5mg or 3x5mg. Please note, though, that I've only been taking 3x5 mg for very short periods of time.

[GreenPower]

Not with high doses of cycloastragenol. I may not have gone high enough....3 capsules. I am, however, now seeing a repeating pattern of nasty side effects of the new formula. Insomnia, acid stomach and acid taste in mouth, mouth ulcers,and as the week goes on, looser stools at the start becoming diarrhoea by the end. The first week on, it was mild but each week it has become stronger and now in the fourth week on it has become unacceptable and I have had to cut back to one capsule a day. It's a bit much to pay £70 for a few weeks of something that hasn't been tested properly, particularly when its benefits are a closely guarded secret. Clinical trial subjects at least get paid for their pains. We have to pay to stick our necks out. No more! Bring back simple cycloastragenol.

You mean 3 capsules of Astral Fruit NF which would equal 7.5 mg of Cycloastragenol?

When I've been taking 1x 5mg of Cycloastragenol just before going to bed I've also experienced some problems with sleeping, but this have more been like "wakening to early". This I solved by never taking Cycloastragenol later than 18.00.

I have never had "acid taste" with my different regimens (which doesn't include Astral Fruit NF), but I have had a "dry mouth" - with the corresponding bad breath and therefore some more tooth brushing.

I've not been experiencing "acid stomach", "mouth ulcers" not "diarrhoea" (except such as can be attributed to using Orlistat).

[McQueen]

Hi, new to forum and trying to assimilate all the information on telomerase activators.

Green, why not take the Astragalus root extract from Solgar you were taking when your dramatic telomere length occurred? (according to your last lab test if I am interpreting your posts correctly) I would want to see if I could somewhat duplicate the previous results. How many caps did you take a day or what was your dosage of the Solgar extract. With or without meals? Thanks for any information or clarification.

[motorcitykid]

Green I'm wondering if frequency of male ejaculation has any effect on telomere length. I know this subject has been sort of addressed here and other forums but I still have questions and doubts about the conclusions reached. The nematode worm study, the lengthy life span of eunuchs, and the fact that flowers live longer if not pollinated tells me that we are not getting the whole picture on this subject.

I'm not sure if keeping it in our pants would help maintain telomere length, but I would like to know more about your own patent protocol.

Has your level of sexual activity been consistent at the onset and throughout the months of your telomere testing phase?

You've been recording dietary and lifestyle changes so why not factor in the frequency of ejaculation? It could be the missing piece of the puzzle.

I have to confess I haven't really been focusing on this area.

In general I would say that the frequency went up a bit when using "standardised Astragalus extract", but that might have been a side effect of feeling more energized in general.
I didn't really pay attention to it at the time, but I think there was a similar but slightly lower effect when using AIV - but then again, it was not "pure" AIV but a mix with ordinary Astragalus.
When using Cycloastragenol (with Chitosan) I would say that the frequency have been about normal, that is, slightly lower than when using "standardised Astragalus extract". The frequency have been constant regardless of whether I've been taking 1x5mg, 2x5mg or 3x5mg. Please note, though, that I've only been taking 3x5 mg for very short periods of time.

Gracias!

[GreenPower]

Hi, new to forum and trying to assimilate all the information on telomerase activators.

Green, why not take the Astragalus root extract from Solgar you were taking when your dramatic telomere length occurred? (according to your last lab test if I am interpreting your posts correctly) I would want to see if I could somewhat duplicate the previous results. How many caps did you take a day or what was your dosage of the Solgar extract. With or without meals? Thanks for any information or clarification.

Great! Just don't forget to take some kind of baseline test on the current length of your telomeres before you start. I think I'm starting to sound like a sales rep repeating this all the time, but otherwise you wouldn't know if the regimen works or not.

The main reasons to switch would be that
- Cycloastragenol/TAT2/TA65 is still the only "known" substance which have been considered to be commercially used for extending telomeres. Geron did scrap their plans to use it commercially due to unknown reasons, though.
- I wanted to have a "resting period" before doing another six months on "Standardised Astragalus Extract".
- I did not get any negative side effects during the six months when I only took 1x5 mg of Cycloastragenol per day.
- I've already bought a lot of Cycloastragenol which I need to use up.
- I'm curious to whether a larger dose of Cycloastragenol would give better results.


Specifics on the regimen
I've posted this information before, but this is "corrected" and I have added some details about whether I took the pills together with food or not

I took Standardized Astragalus Root Extract during two periods of 3 months, with a two week interval in between.
Period 1 - details

• During the first period I used 2 x Ginkgo Biloba (100 mg, corresponding to 24 mg flavonoid glycosides and 6 mg terpenoids), one in the morning and one in the afternoon, most often taken together with Astragalus Root Extract (Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250mg, Standardised Astragalus Root Powdered Extract (1mg [0.5%] triterpene glycolides) 225mg. In the morning I took them together with breakfast, In the afternoon I usually (but not always) took them some time after dinner.
  
• During this period I also completed one round of "Adidas miCoach Get Fit Stay Fit - Level 4". I managed a 90% success rate on this activity.
• At the end of the period I started meditating 20 minutes around lunch time on working days. I estimate I managed a 90% success rate on this activity.
• At the end of the period I had to decrease the dose of Gingko Biloba to 1 x Gingko Biloba, taken around lunch time (see earlier post for explanation).
• I frequently used Orlistat 2x120mg when eating meals with fat (maybe 50% of the time).

Period 2 - details

• During the second period I used 1 x Ginkgo Biloba (100 mg, corresponding to 24 mg flavonoid glycosides and 6 mg terpenoids), around lunchtime. Both in the morning and in the evening I took 1 x Astragalus Root Extract (Raw Astragalus Root Powder 250mg, Standardised Astragalus Root Powdered Extract (1mg [0.5%] triterpene glycolides) 225mg. In the morning I took Astragalus together with breakfast. During lunch I generally first ate lunch, then meditated and then took the Gingko Biloba. In the afternoon/evening I usually (but not always) took Astragalus some time after dinner.
• During the period I meditated 20 minutes around lunch time on working days. I estimate I managed a 90% success rate with this. I had to phase out the Adidas miCoach program because the weather turned to cold (autumn and winter).
• I frequently used Orlistat 1-2x120mg when eating meals with fat (maybe 30% of the time) but phased it out and have instead started with LCHF-diet (Low Fat - High Carb). The reason for LCHF is that someone in this thread suggested that I read the arguments "from the other side" of the debate about cholesterol. Because I found the arguments quite sound I thought I would include this in my regimen. I do have some troubles to completely avoid fast carbohydrates, though. I guess I have about 80-90% success rate.
• During the first two months of this three month period I managed to get time off from work during Fridays. I recovered a substantial amount of lost sleep, but lost some of it during the third month.

I define Morning as somewhere between 06.00-07.00, Lunch as somewhere between 11.00-12.30 and dinner as somewhere between 16.30-18.30.

Please note that I'm not sure which part(s) of the regimen which was actually responsible for the interesting results.

[johnross47]

Hi John,

I am a young guy that will be turning 40 this year, take no meds, and I have none of the issues you state with the new formula.

Others reported no issues as well, on the contrary... more energy, and no side effects.

Do you take mastergene and micronized resveratrol like we are reccomending?

A

It is possible that these "side effects" are just coincidental. I will try again after a break so that any underlying infection in the gut has time to clear. (There are a few around at the moment) I'm a bit surprised at the question about what else I'm taking. Mostly I'm surprised by the continuing lack of supporting evidence. Why is nobody else asking for any supporting data on these substances. It appears to be the standard procedure for all other unsupported claims. It really would be nice to have some research based information to back up the sales attempt in your question.

[Anthony_Loera]

Johnross,

please read this thread from the beginning, and then post your questions.
You will be better educated than most after reading it.

Yes, I know it's long... but worth it.

A

[omegaman]

When taking any telomerase activator, particularly cycloastragenol, avoid polyphenols in your diet and drink lots of milk. Polyphenols are telomerase inhibitors. Just about any fruit or plant has polyphenols in it. Even if you eat chocolate which is made of cacao, especially dark chocolate, has polyphenols in it. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds, dark chocolate, red wine, teas, herbs, spices, seasonings have polyphenols in it and thus are telomerase inhibitors. You'd be surprised how much of your diet contains polyphenols. Apparently milk counteracts the effects of polyphenols in your diet. A diet rich in milk, fish and meat is a low polyphenol diet. A diet rich in fruits and plants is a high polyphenol diet. So if you are cycling between telomerase activators and inhibitors you should change your diet accordingly. I am taking cycloastragenol (Astral Fruit) for telomerase activation and drinking lots of milk, since any polyphenols I may ingest may inhibit telomerase activation. If you are taking resveratrol or any other polyphenol telomerase inhibitor, I would avoid drinking milk, especially if your goal is to inhibit telomerase activity. The link below is a list of high and low polyphenol foods as well as info from which I extrapolated the above data.

http://greentry.ange...Polyphenol.html

Edited by omegaman, 11 January 2011 - 12:08 AM.

[maxwatt]

It is possible that the accepted wisdom is wrong, and that SIRT1 activators actually help maintain telomere length:

J Cell Biol. 2010 Dec 27;191(7):1299-313.
SIRT1 contributes to telomere maintenance and augments global homologous recombination.
Palacios JA, Herranz D, De Bonis ML, Velasco S, Serrano M, Blasco MA.

Telomeres and Telomerase Group and 2 Tumor Suppression Group, Molecular Oncology Program, Spanish National Cancer Centre, Madrid E-28029, Spain.
Abstract
Yeast Sir2 deacetylase is a component of the silent information regulator (SIR) complex encompassing Sir2/Sir3/Sir4. Sir2 is recruited to telomeres through Rap1, and this complex spreads into subtelomeric DNA via histone deacetylation. However, potential functions at telomeres for SIRT1, the mammalian orthologue of yeast Sir2, are less clear. We studied both loss of function (SIRT1 deficient) and gain of function (SIRT1(super)) mouse models. Our results indicate that SIRT1 is a positive regulator of telomere length in vivo and attenuates telomere shortening associated with aging, an effect dependent on telomerase activity. Using chromatin immunoprecipitation assays, we find that SIRT1 interacts with telomeric repeats in vivo. In addition, SIRT1 overexpression increases homologous recombination throughout the entire genome, including telomeres, centromeres, and chromosome arms. These findings link SIRT1 to telomere biology and global DNA repair and provide new mechanistic explanations for the known functions of SIRT1 in protection from DNA damage and some age-associated pathologies.

PMID: 21187328

I believe the studies showing inhibition of telomerase by resveratrol were performed in vitro on cancer cells, which are abnormal in chemistry, enough so that the studies may not apply to normal cells, as the above study seems to indicate. Not that I know for certain, but there is a lot we do not know here.

FWIW, NAC apparently blocks the inhibition of telomerase by at least one polyphenol:

N-acetyl cysteine mitigates curcumin-mediated telomerase inhibition through rescuing of Sp1 reduction in A549 cells.
Hsin IL, Sheu GT, Chen HH, Chiu LY, Wang HD, Chan HW, Hsu CP, Ko JL.
Mutat Res. 2010 Jun 1;688(1-2):72-7. Epub 2010 Apr 2.
PMID: 20363232

[GreenPower]

In order to be as thourough as possible, here's some added information about my last regimen.

Since starting with LCHF I usually start the morning with bacon, egg and... onion. According to Wikipedia "Wide-ranging claims have been made for the effectiveness of onions against conditions ranging from the common cold to heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, and other diseases.^[9] They contain chemical compounds believed to have anti-inflammatory, anticholesterol, anticancer, and antioxidant properties such as quercetin. However, it has not been conclusively demonstrated that increased consumption of onions is directly linked to health benefits. Some studies have shown that increased consumption of onions reduces the risk of head and neck cancers.^[10] " and "Western Yellow onions have the most flavonoids, eleven times the amount found in Western White, the variety with the lowest flavonoid content". I guess I've included this in my regimen at about 75% of all mornings during the last two months on "standardised astragalus extract " or so.

If I go by omegaman's list, I've not been eating a lot of products containing Polyphenols.

[omegaman]

FWIW, NAC apparently blocks the inhibition of telomerase by at least one polyphenol:

N-acetyl cysteine mitigates curcumin-mediated telomerase inhibition through rescuing of Sp1 reduction in A549 cells.
Hsin IL, Sheu GT, Chen HH, Chiu LY, Wang HD, Chan HW, Hsu CP, Ko JL.
Mutat Res. 2010 Jun 1;688(1-2):72-7. Epub 2010 Apr 2.
PMID: 20363232

The interesting point in the above report is that curcumin inhibits telomerase activity by inducing ROS production resulting in Sp1 binding activity inhibition and hTERT downregulation. It is stated: "The ROS induced by curcumin in A549 cells was detected by flow cytometry". In other words, it is the production of free radicals that inhibits telomerase activity. My understanding curcumin is supposed to be a potent antioxidant, but not in this case for some reason. Apparently NAC (N-acetyl-cysteine) being in itself a potent antioxidant reverses the effect of the ROS (reactive oxygen species) produced by the curcumin in this study.

This may be a clue to how many telomerase inhibitors work, by producing ROS in the presence of cancer cells, although It seems this is only curcumin in this case. Just my humble opinion.

Edited by omegaman, 12 January 2011 - 04:22 AM.

[Chopperboy]

I've noticed that TA-65 does have one side effect: it causes memory difficulties. 100% of the speakers who've been taking it failed to remember a question for two minutes.

I am, however, now seeing a repeating pattern of nasty side effects of the new formula. Insomnia, acid stomach and acid taste in mouth, mouth ulcers.

I've also experienced some problems with sleeping, but this have more been like "wakening to early".

I have also experienced all the above while taking 2x5mg Cycloastraganol 5 days per week. After stopping cyclo the stomach acid problem seems to go away and it feels like short term memory is bouncing back as well - but I still seem to wake too early (always just before dawn break). I wonder if the insomnia could be due to an increased sensitivity to noise/ vibrations. I have also noticed a greater appreciation of beat music - Il Divo's out - Rock & Dance is now back in!