2189 replies to this topic

[omegaman]

I’ve come across a study from 2003 that supports my theory that polyphenol telomerase inhibitors work by inducing ROS (reactive oxygen species) in cancer cells while suppressing ROS in healthy cells.

I can only conclude that polyphenols will not interfere with telomerase activation in healthy cells.

Green Tea Polyphenol Causes Differential Oxidative
Environments in Tumor versus Normal Epithelial Cells

ABSTRACT
Green tea polyphenols (GTPPs) are considered beneficial to human
health, especially as chemopreventive agents. Recently, cytotoxic
reactive oxygen species (ROS) were identified in tumor and
certain normal cell cultures incubated with high concentrations of
the most abundant GTPP, (
)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG).
If EGCG also provokes the production of ROS in normal epithelial
cells, it may preclude the topical use of EGCG at higher doses.
The current study examined the oxidative status of normal epithelial,
normal salivary gland, and oral carcinoma cells treated with
EGCG, using ROS measurement and catalase and superoxide
dismutase activity assays. The results demonstrated that high
concentrations of EGCG induced oxidative stress only in tumor
cells. In contrast, EGCG reduced ROS in normal cells to background
levels. 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyltetrazolium
bromide assay and 5-bromodeoxyuridine incorporation data
were also compared between the two oral carcinoma cell lines
treated by EGCG, which suggest that a difference in the levels of
endogenous catalase activity may play an important role in reducing
oxidative stress provoked by EGCG in tumor cells. It is concluded
that pathways activated by GTPPs or EGCG in normal
epithelial versus tumor cells create different oxidative environments,
favoring either normal cell survival or tumor cell destruction.
This finding may lead to applications of naturally occurring
polyphenols to enhance the effectiveness of chemo/radiation
therapy to promote cancer cell death while protecting normal
cells.

Sample:

These results demonstrated that EGCG may act as
a ROS inducer or a strong ROS scavenger, depending upon
specific cell type, suggesting that the mechanisms of EGCG induced
ROS formation could be more complicated than predicted.
Whereas it appears that the concentrations of EGCG
used might play a role in the rate of production of ROS in
tumor cells, normal epithelial cells were able to tolerate very
high concentrations of EGCG (approximately 50 times higher
than the Cmax in plasma) and to reduce ROS to background
levels 5 min after EGCG was added in the culture, regardless
of concentration (15–200
M).

Sample:

Green tea constituents have been
characterized as antioxidants that scavenge free radicals to
protect normal cells. However, recent reports
have linked GTPPs to reactive oxygen species (ROS) production,
especially hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), and subsequent
apoptosis in both transformed and nontransformed human
bronchial cells.

Sample:

The current study identified two novel observations: 1)
EGCG differentially affects oxidative status and can act as
either a ROS inducer or a ROS suppressor depending upon
the cell type; and 2) EGCG concentrations higher than
plasma Cmax do not produce H2O2 in cells derived from the
normal epidermis and oral cavity (and possibly digestive
tract), but rather protect these cells by decreasing ROS production

Follow the link below for the entire study and make your own conclusions:

http://jpet.aspetjou.../1/230.full.pdf

[johnross47]

When taking any telomerase activator, particularly cycloastragenol, avoid polyphenols in your diet and drink lots of milk. Polyphenols are telomerase inhibitors. Just about any fruit or plant has polyphenols in it. Even if you eat chocolate which is made of cacao, especially dark chocolate, has polyphenols in it. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds, dark chocolate, red wine, teas, herbs, spices, seasonings have polyphenols in it and thus are telomerase inhibitors. You'd be surprised how much of your diet contains polyphenols. Apparently milk counteracts the effects of polyphenols in your diet. A diet rich in milk, fish and meat is a low polyphenol diet. A diet rich in fruits and plants is a high polyphenol diet. So if you are cycling between telomerase activators and inhibitors you should change your diet accordingly. I am taking cycloastragenol (Astral Fruit) for telomerase activation and drinking lots of milk, since any polyphenols I may ingest may inhibit telomerase activation. If you are taking resveratrol or any other polyphenol telomerase inhibitor, I would avoid drinking milk, especially if your goal is to inhibit telomerase activity. The link below is a list of high and low polyphenol foods as well as info from which I extrapolated the above data.

http://greentry.ange...Polyphenol.html

Fascinating reading but the dietary implications are mind-boggling. If, like me, you use cron-o-meter to balance up your nutrients you will be aware of just how hard it is, and I'm not trying to get by on a very low calorie diet. Trying to avoid polyphenols would make it impossible without the extensive use of supplements and they have their own problems. On the other hand, getting adequate amounts of calcium without lots of milk is very hard, and you would lose the cardiac benefits of milk drinking.

[tintinet]

Cardiac benefits of milk drinking? Are they substantial?

[omegaman]

Eyesight Improvement, cycloastragenol working?

I've been taking 5mg cycloastragenol (Astral Fruit-C, NF) everyday for approximately 7 months. About 6 of those 7 months I was taking 500mg of NAC daily. No other supplements were taken during that time. Polyphenols in my diet I haven't avoided it much. I have not taken resveratrol.

I have been wearing eye glasses for most of my life and never has my eyesight improved until now. I have recently had my eyes checked and was told of my vision improvement. I could only think of two possibilities, either my eye doctor screwed up the eye exam OR cycloastragenol has improved my eyesight by making my eyes younger. I assumed a mistake was made. I went to buy my new eye glasses anyway. At the optical store I was told again that my eyesight improved because the lenses on my old glasses were thicker than what my prescription indicated. Again, it seemed too good to be true, but I went ahead with buying my new glasses. When I picked up my new glasses and put them on, my vision seemed a bit distorted and was told my eyes needed to get used to the new prescription. Anyway, I've been wearing my new glasses for about a week and right now it appears my vision is crisp and clear.

I will continue to take cycloastragenol for another year and have my eyes checked again in a years time. I think taking NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) which is a potent antioxidant and a precursor to intercellular glutathione, also known as the master antioxidant, has blunted any free radical damage to my telomeres and since it's not a telomerase inhibitor like resveratrol it's a good substitute and rather cheap. 500mg of NAC daily I think is sufficient but no more than 1000mg of NAC daily since high doses may have negative side effects health wise.

[omegaman]

When taking any telomerase activator, particularly cycloastragenol, avoid polyphenols in your diet and drink lots of milk. Polyphenols are telomerase inhibitors. Just about any fruit or plant has polyphenols in it. Even if you eat chocolate which is made of cacao, especially dark chocolate, has polyphenols in it. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds, dark chocolate, red wine, teas, herbs, spices, seasonings have polyphenols in it and thus are telomerase inhibitors. You'd be surprised how much of your diet contains polyphenols. Apparently milk counteracts the effects of polyphenols in your diet. A diet rich in milk, fish and meat is a low polyphenol diet. A diet rich in fruits and plants is a high polyphenol diet. So if you are cycling between telomerase activators and inhibitors you should change your diet accordingly. I am taking cycloastragenol (Astral Fruit) for telomerase activation and drinking lots of milk, since any polyphenols I may ingest may inhibit telomerase activation. If you are taking resveratrol or any other polyphenol telomerase inhibitor, I would avoid drinking milk, especially if your goal is to inhibit telomerase activity. The link below is a list of high and low polyphenol foods as well as info from which I extrapolated the above data.

http://greentry.ange...Polyphenol.html

Fascinating reading but the dietary implications are mind-boggling. If, like me, you use cron-o-meter to balance up your nutrients you will be aware of just how hard it is, and I'm not trying to get by on a very low calorie diet. Trying to avoid polyphenols would make it impossible without the extensive use of supplements and they have their own problems. On the other hand, getting adequate amounts of calcium without lots of milk is very hard, and you would lose the cardiac benefits of milk drinking.

I think the solution to blocking telomerase inhibitors may be found in the supplement NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine). I suggested drinking milk to help neutralize polyphenols capacity to inhibit telomerase or avoiding polyphenols in one's diet (which is nearly impossible), but now I realize NAC may the key here, not only for curcumin but probably for all polyphenols. I've quoted below from another thread; link follows.

I came across this by accident, but it appears that the effect of substances that inhibit telomerase such as curcumin, and likely other inhibitors such as resveratrol, can be blocked by N-acetyl cysteine. It is possible that taking NAC with a telomerase activator could increase its effectiveness. If not directly, than by blocking the inhibitory effects from curcumin, resveratrol and substances found in a normal diet.

Mutat Res. 2010 Jun 1;688(1-2):72-7. Epub 2010 Apr 2.
N-acetyl cysteine mitigates curcumin-mediated telomerase inhibition through rescuing of Sp1 reduction in A549 cells.
Hsin IL, Sheu GT, Chen HH, Chiu LY, Wang HD, Chan HW, Hsu CP, Ko JL.

Institute of Medical and Molecular Toxicology, Chung Shan Medical University, Taichung, Taiwan, ROC.
Abstract
Curcumin is a natural compound that has been extensively observed due to its potential as an anticancer drug. Curcumin restrains cancer cell progression via telomerase activity suppression. However, the exact mechanism is still unknown. In this study, we demonstrate that the effects of curcumin on cell viability and telomerase activity can be blunted by reactive oxygen species (ROS) inhibitor N-acetyl cysteine (NAC). The ROS induced by curcumin in A549 cells was detected by flow cytometry. Using Western blot and RT-PCR, human telomerase reverse transcriptase (hTERT) decreased in the presence of curcumin. Sp1 is one of the important transcription factors in hTERT expression. Our data showed that curcumin decreases the expression of Sp1 through proteasome pathway. In addition, NAC blunted the Sp1 reduction and hTERT downregulation by curcumin. Further, reporter assay and DNA affinity precipitation assay confirmed the influence of curcumin on Sp1 in hTERT regulation. This is the first study to demonstrate that curcumin induces ROS production resulting in Sp1 binding activity inhibition and hTERT downregulation.

Copyright 2010 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.
PMID: 20363232

http://www.imminst.o...post__p__446248

[sapentia]

Are there fat soluble components that make it necessary to take Astral Fruit NF with a meal? The reason I ask is that for me I find the Astral Fruit to expedite the digestive process a bit too much when taken with a meal. The last couple days I have taken one cap in the morning fasted which hasn't caused any issues. I have also been trying to take a second cap 30 min.-1hr. post meal to help prevent stomach emptying at too rapid a pace. Thoughts?

[timothymburke]

Scientists still don't know whether hTERT downregulation or upregulation are the key to immortality. Cancer cells have hTERT upregulation and live forever. They also know we die from having cancer cells that promote themselves and never die. So does that mean we should avoid cancer to live longer, or try to be more like a cancer to live forever? What to do, what to do? Years pass, and still no answers...

[johnross47]

Cardiac benefits of milk drinking? Are they substantial?

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=milk+consumption+heart+attack+risk&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=on

this is a good starting point.

I have actually searched using a number of different search terms but all the results are similar. It's also worth searching calcium supplementation separately....it's basically not a good idea. Milk confers some benefit apart from the calcium content, or possibly the calcium needs to be in milk to be beneficial. Also worth looking at research on Vit D at the saame time.

[johnross47]

Johnross,

please read this thread from the beginning, and then post your questions.
You will be better educated than most after reading it.

Yes, I know it's long... but worth it.

A

I have actually read a lot of this thread and followed a lot of research on other sites.....the picture on resveratrol is confused and confusing; there does not yet appear to be any final conclusion on its effects, particularly in vivo. The goalposts keep moving which is not what you really want to see. We are now a long way from the original "French paradox" excitement and there is more doubt now about its benefits; both what they are, and if they are benefits at all for decently healthy people. Some clear research conclusions that haven't subsequently been contradicted or seriously modified would be good.

[johnross47]

On the same subject....a bit of research information to back up the idea that resveratrol helps in the (not supported yet by research) week off NF. And the same goes for curcumin. What is the basis of the advice to alternate weeks on and weeks off. Similar advice was given for Astral Fruit C and then we found that users of TA65, apparently the same substance, were taking it for much longer periods and in much larger doses. Much of the label advice seems to have been written by lawyers rather than scientists.

[maxwatt]

On the same subject....a bit of research information to back up the idea that resveratrol helps in the (not supported yet by research) week off NF. And the same goes for curcumin. What is the basis of the advice to alternate weeks on and weeks off. Similar advice was given for Astral Fruit C and then we found that users of TA65, apparently the same substance, were taking it for much longer periods and in much larger doses. Much of the label advice seems to have been written by lawyers rather than scientists.

I believe it is jumping to conclusions from some in vitro studies. And the in vitro studies were performed on abnormal cells, cancer cells. Resveratrol is pretty much gone from your system in 12 hours. If there really is an in vivo inhibitory effect, then taking resveratrol in the morning and a telomerase agonist before bed would be adequate, unless it takes time for the effects to consolidate? There are no rigorous published studies on these effects in humans.

[johnross47]

http://www.nature.co...s/6600197a.html

lots of interesting stuff on piceatannol in here. Try it as a search term in google scholar. What happens to all that expensive resveratrol.

[maxwatt]

http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v86/n5/abs/6600197a.html

lots of interesting stuff on piceatannol in here. Try it as a search term in google scholar. What happens to all that expensive resveratrol.

See this thread in the resveratrol section

[McQueen]

Im a civilian (layman, no biology or medical background)plowing through this post of almost 60 pages and other info out on the web. I understand that none of the dust has settled and there are no definitive answers in this area, but, would anyone be so kind as to write a brief synopsis of salient points and what we think we know about this subject? Even just some opinions about how much Astragalus to take(standardized to 0.4% Astragulas extract and root("high grade")would be appreciated. Difference between the different variations of Astragalus(Astragalus IV, Cycloastragenol(sp?) etc.) Is Astral Fruit really better even though Greenpower seemed to get impressive results from plain old Astragalus root from Solgar? (Were the results ever posted of before and after readings of telomeres after taking Astral Fruit?)Any information or recommendations someone would like to offer would be great if anyone has the time or inclination.

[GreenPower]

On the same subject....a bit of research information to back up the idea that resveratrol helps in the (not supported yet by research) week off NF. And the same goes for curcumin. What is the basis of the advice to alternate weeks on and weeks off. Similar advice was given for Astral Fruit C and then we found that users of TA65, apparently the same substance, were taking it for much longer periods and in much larger doses. Much of the label advice seems to have been written by lawyers rather than scientists.

Quoted from RevGenetics site about Astral Fruit-NF RGTA™ Complex: "The new formulation has 60 capsules, we advise to take this formulation every other week, 1 capsule per meal".

I stopped taking Cycloastragenol about a week ago in order to see if the adverse effects disappeared. They more or less did, but it actually took about one week before my memory was back to "normal". This might be a coincidence but although the above guideline is for "NF" and not "C" I will now try to cycle in one-week-periods to see the results.

[GreenPower]

T.A. Sciences Announces the First U.S. Patent for Compositions and Methods for Increasing Telomerase Activity from a Natural Source.
NEW YORK, Jan. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Telomerase Activation Sciences, Inc. (T.A. Sciences) today announced the issuance of U.S. Patent No. 7,846,904 to the Geron Corporation. The patent covers the use of certain compounds to upregulate telomerase expression in cells.

T.A. Sciences has exclusive worldwide rights to technology under this patent for nutraceutical and cosmetic applications.

http://www.gerntalk....?varBlogID=2536

http://www.freepaten...om/7846904.html

Edited by GreenPower, 16 January 2011 - 04:12 PM.

[sapentia]

Are there fat soluble components that make it necessary to take Astral Fruit NF with a meal? The reason I ask is that for me I find the Astral Fruit to expedite the digestive process a bit too much when taken with a meal. The last couple days I have taken one cap in the morning fasted which hasn't caused any issues. I have also been trying to take a second cap 30 min.-1hr. post meal to help prevent stomach emptying at too rapid a pace. Thoughts?

Bump for feedback on my previous post.

[johnross47]

T.A. Sciences Announces the First U.S. Patent for Compositions and Methods for Increasing Telomerase Activity from a Natural Source.
NEW YORK, Jan. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Telomerase Activation Sciences, Inc. (T.A. Sciences) today announced the issuance of U.S. Patent No. 7,846,904 to the Geron Corporation. The patent covers the use of certain compounds to upregulate telomerase expression in cells.

T.A. Sciences has exclusive worldwide rights to technology under this patent for nutraceutical and cosmetic applications.

http://www.gerntalk....?varBlogID=2536

http://www.freepaten...om/7846904.html

The US Patent Office has a bad reputation in the rest of the world for giving US companies scattergun patents which claim to grab all the rights to the US. The bad behaviour over the BRAC genes and the ridiculous patent granted on Basmati Rice both come to mind. This is probably worthless in the long term.

[Enoch]

The patent came with new reference values about the activity of the telomerase compounds:

Table 1 gives, for compositions containing each of the compounds shown in FIGS. 1A-G, the minimum effective concentration (MEC) of the compound that produced a level of telomerase activity twice that seen in a DMSO control (i.e. 100% greater).

cycloastragenol 3-β-D-xylopyranoside
TABLE 1
Designation Name ME C, μM
1 astragaloside IV 0.01
2 cycloastragenol 0.01
3 astragenol 0. 03
4 astragaloside IV 16-one 0.03
5 2OR,24S-epoxy -3β,16β,25-trihydroxy- 0.10
9β-methyl-19-norlanost-1,5-diene
6 cycloastragenol 6-β-D-glucopyranoside 3.2
7 3.2
8 ginsenoside RH1 10

Edited by Enoch, 21 January 2011 - 10:44 AM.

[johnross47]

T.A. Sciences Announces the First U.S. Patent for Compositions and Methods for Increasing Telomerase Activity from a Natural Source.
NEW YORK, Jan. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Telomerase Activation Sciences, Inc. (T.A. Sciences) today announced the issuance of U.S. Patent No. 7,846,904 to the Geron Corporation. The patent covers the use of certain compounds to upregulate telomerase expression in cells.

T.A. Sciences has exclusive worldwide rights to technology under this patent for nutraceutical and cosmetic applications.

http://www.gerntalk....?varBlogID=2536

http://www.freepaten...om/7846904.html

Finally had time to scan through that patent document. It's pretty broad. Interesting however that they do appear to have evidence that these extracts act on all sorts of cell populations.....this has been claimed before but without any evidence being presented. Given the range of species involved and the breadth of the types of extracts and applications it does look like they are trying to close down anyone else from using any kind of astragalus extract for any purpose. Does this mean the end for Astral Fruit? Can these patents actually apply in places where such natural extracts can't be patented locally? What about the issue of prior use of these extracts by others? This is a substance with a long history in Chinese medicine. How can a US company suddenly claim to own and control such substances? The expression "arrogant thieving scumbags" is far too mild.

[omegaman]

T.A. Sciences Announces the First U.S. Patent for Compositions and Methods for Increasing Telomerase Activity from a Natural Source.
NEW YORK, Jan. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Telomerase Activation Sciences, Inc. (T.A. Sciences) today announced the issuance of U.S. Patent No. 7,846,904 to the Geron Corporation. The patent covers the use of certain compounds to upregulate telomerase expression in cells.

T.A. Sciences has exclusive worldwide rights to technology under this patent for nutraceutical and cosmetic applications.

http://www.gerntalk....?varBlogID=2536

http://www.freepaten...om/7846904.html

Finally had time to scan through that patent document. It's pretty broad. Interesting however that they do appear to have evidence that these extracts act on all sorts of cell populations.....this has been claimed before but without any evidence being presented. Given the range of species involved and the breadth of the types of extracts and applications it does look like they are trying to close down anyone else from using any kind of astragalus extract for any purpose. Does this mean the end for Astral Fruit? Can these patents actually apply in places where such natural extracts can't be patented locally? What about the issue of prior use of these extracts by others? This is a substance with a long history in Chinese medicine. How can a US company suddenly claim to own and control such substances? The expression "arrogant thieving scumbags" is far too mild.

This is completely bogus, for example:

Formulations containing astragalus extracts and uses thereof United States Patent Application 20070122501

Formulations containing plant extracts, in particular Astragalus extracts, and their use in inducing telomerase activity in cells, are described. Such compositions include pharmaceutical, including topical, and nutraceutical formulations. The methods and compositions are useful for treating diseases subject to treatment by an increase in telomerase activity in selected cells, such as, for example, HIV infection, various degenerative diseases, and acute or chronic skin ailments. They are also useful for enhancing replicative capacity of cells in culture, as in ex vivo cell therapy and proliferation of stem cells. Also described are cosmetic formulations of such extracts for conditioning the skin.

............

They are making claims in this patent of treating diseases, including HIV infection. Doesn't that mean they need FDA approval to make such claims?

[omegaman]

I don't think Astral Fruit is affected since formulations are patented not the actual molecule (cycloastragenol), at least that's my understanding.

[Anthony_Loera]

Folks,

The RGTA complex which contains Cycloastragenol is not affected due to various reasons, not just the critical one mentioned by omegaman. At this time their is no reason why folks could not benefit from our 3rd Generation formulation of Astral Fruit.

In fact Full Members of this forum do have a discount code that reduces the price to $50 for it here:
http://www.longecity...post__p__451940

Please remember to donate to the 503-c non profit group here, to become a full member and receive member benefits:
http://www.imminst.org/donate

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 05 February 2011 - 08:38 PM.

[johnross]

Update on my previous comments about stomach problems etc. After giving it a rest for a couple of weeks I started back on the NF. First week just one capsule at breakfast, second, one at breakfast and one at lunch. So far no problems....stomach fine and no insomnia. I assume I must have had some sort of lingering stomach bug.

[johnross]

It appears to have been beneficial to take Astral Fruit C by the buccal route. Does this also apply to New formula or do the other ingredients make it ineffective or unpleasant? Any one tried? Any information from anywhere?

[GreenPower]

I stopped taking Cycloastragenol about a week ago in order to see if the adverse effects disappeared. They more or less did, but it actually took about one week before my memory was back to "normal". This might be a coincidence but although the above guideline is for "NF" and not "C" I will now try to cycle in one-week-periods to see the results.

I have now tried three cycles with
- 5-6 days with no Cycloastragenol
- One Cyclo x 5mg, trapping up
- 5-6 days of Cycloastragenol 2x5mg
- One Cyclo x 5mg, trapping down
- 5-6 days with no Cycloastragenol.....

This didn't work out to well. Instead of getting used with the dose of 10mg/day (including Chitosan 2mg) my memory instead seemed to get more sensitive. After the third cycle, in order to not take any unnecessary risks, I decided to stop taking Cycloastragenol completely. Instead I switched back to the Standardized Astragalus Extract and the rest of my last regimen . After about two weeks my memory seem to be more or less fine again.

I should add that I earlier have been doing Cycloastragenol 5mg/day (including Chitosan 1mg) for six months without any adverse effects at all. My guess is that this negative memory effect in some way is dose dependent. Some theories:

• It might be that my body have earlier been able to regulate the lower amount of Cycloastragenol and get it out of the body, but have not been able to do so with this larger amount. This might have led to a build up of a "way to large" concentration of Cycloastragenol, having one or several negative effects.
• It might also be that this large concentration is needed in order for Cycloastragenol to have any positive effects...
• It might be that other compounds in Astragalus is necessary for Cycloastragenol to have a positive effect and/or neutralize the negative effects. Currently I'm not in a mood to try this, though.
• Could the Chitosan give some kind of negative effect? But as far as I know I'm not allergic to crabs, shrimps, or anything else for that matter.

I'm thinking along the lines of continue with the "Standardized Astragalus Extract and the rest of my last regimen" for four to six more months - and then do another test round.

Edited by GreenPower, 23 February 2011 - 06:53 PM.

[johnross]

http://biomedgeronto...2.full.pdf html

interesting review/overview of whether telomere length is a useful marker of ageing. Basically concludes that the current evidence is inconclusive and more research is needed. much less positive and definite than the opinion of Geron et al.

Edited by johnross, 25 February 2011 - 05:32 PM.

[GregLong]

GreenPower

I have slogged through this entire thread and probably need to do it again, however, I am struck by the results that you have obtained on a regimen utilizing such a small dose of Astragalus extract. I also note that, on another site, Jim Green has also (unless you are Jim Green?) gained great results using an Astragalus extract regimen. Although he has, I believe, switched to a Cycloastragenol regimen. I have also noted that both your results and Anthony Loera's cycloastragenol results have been less than outstanding. Prior to reading this thread, I was ready to take the plunge and begin an Astral Fruit regimen. Now, I am not so sure. Perhaps the Astragalus extract is providing some element "missing" in the more pure cycloastragenol? For me, and perhaps others here, confusion reigns.

GregL

[GreenPower]

GreenPower

I have slogged through this entire thread and probably need to do it again, however, I am struck by the results that you have obtained on a regimen utilizing such a small dose of Astragalus extract. I also note that, on another site, Jim Green has also (unless you are Jim Green?) gained great results using an Astragalus extract regimen. Although he has, I believe, switched to a Cycloastragenol regimen. I have also noted that both your results and Anthony Loera's cycloastragenol results have been less than outstanding. Prior to reading this thread, I was ready to take the plunge and begin an Astral Fruit regimen. Now, I am not so sure. Perhaps the Astragalus extract is providing some element "missing" in the more pure cycloastragenol? For me, and perhaps others here, confusion reigns.

GregL

I am not sure the main effect came from the Standardized Astragalus extract. It may as well be that I counteracted a possible long term negative effect on telomere lengths generated from stress by implementing meditation routines in the middle of the day. It might possible be that the length of of the telomeres of my Natural Killer cells have just returned to a more normal state for my age - by getting some kind of system in balance again. If this is true, the telomeres should not grow as much during a second period on the same regimen.

Btw, I'm not Jim Green :-). I just spent an hour browsing though his web site, though. It would seem he have focused more on external visible markers in order to see if his regimens have had an effect or not. The most striking change being his hair colour. I'm not sure exactly which regimen he used in the period between Jan 2010 and Jan 2011 when he took the two photographs, but to my understanding he used:

• "Terraternal Astragaloside IV 100 mg/day during the activation part of the cycle" and
• "GAIA Herbs astragalus root extract in glycerin at 1 mg astragalosides per 30 drops" which he applied directly to the scalp during the "last few months". I assume he only did this once per day.
• "HGH to promote hTERT mRNA transcription was boosted by 1200 mg/day Alpha GPC plus exercise". Which I translate to be 1200mg/day of Human Growth Hormone and an unspecified amount of L-Alpha Glycerylphosphorylcholine.

Before I started my own regimens I actually bought a bottle Astragalus and considered using it externally on my scalp and possible also my hands and face. However, the smell of of the tincture convinced me not to do so. It would be interesting to know if the extract he used smelled less than the one I had (the brand was Alpha Plus).
It would also be interesting to know if he got most of the changes in hair colour before or after he started to use the tincture. I don't think I received any changes in hair colour by using AIV, although I did get back some vellus hair (see earlier posts).
Even if AIV and/or Astragalus did have a positive effect on his hair colour, he didn't measure the effect it might have had on his immune system. It might be that applying an Astragalus based tincture externally/consuming AIV orally might have had a great impact on his hair, but that the effect of consuming AIV orally can have had slightly different effects internally. As you mentioned, neither I nor Anthony received any great results on the telomere tests we did after using AIV orally.

Because he have also been using HGH, which is said to have an anabolic effect stimulating the growth of a lot of things (which might possible lead to a faster shortening of telomeres) - it would be very interesting to see him doing some kind of telomere test, just to exclude the possibility he have exchanged positive short term results for negative long term results.

Edited by GreenPower, 26 February 2011 - 11:13 AM.

[GregLong]

GreenPower

I guess I zeroed in on your Astragalus use and did not give enough weight to the rest of your regimen. Still it will be interesting to follow your progress if you choose to publish further test results. You have done a great service in publishing your tests.
I did revisit Jim Green's site and it looks like, to me anyway, that for quite a while he used 6 capsules of Solaray Astragalus extract, and liquid Astragalus extract drops, two weeks on two weeks off. I don't think he took growth hormone, but rather used Alpha GPC as a GH realeaser.


GregL