12 replies to this topic

[s123]

http://video.google....4...h&plindex=1

In this movie (17:50) Jennifer A. Lemon is using a cocktail of supplements to extend the lifespan of mice. Does anyone know what she uses? They only say 31 OTC vitamins and minerals. I can see a bottle of vitamin D 1000 IU.

[edward]

I don't know what she is giving them but if its 31 otc supplements then its probably something similar to what a lot of us are taking... Maybe she even stole one of our regimines, scaled it down for mice and gave it to them

I actuallly thought about this at one point. Getting some mice and scaling down my regimine and giving it to some mice keeping the others as a control group and see how much my regimine could possibly extend my life. Hey I could even win the M prize lol

[lucid]

Her studies:

A Dietary Supplement Abolishes Age-Related Cognitive Decline in Transgenic Mice Expressing Elevated Free Radical Processes
J.A. Lemon*, D.R. Boreham{dagger} and C.D. Rollo*,1

* Departments of Biology and
{dagger} Medical Physics and Applied Radiation Sciences Unit, McMaster University, Hamilton Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1

We previously found that transgenic mice overexpressing growth hormone (TGM) have elevated and progressively increasing free radical processes in brain that strongly correlates with reduced survivorship. Young mature TGM, however, displayed vastly enhanced learning of an eight-choice cued maze and qualitatively different learning curves than normal controls. Here we document the age-related patterns in learning ability of TGM and normal mice. Learning appeared inferior in both genotypes of very young mice but TGM were confirmed to be superior to normal mice upon maturity. Older TGM, however, showed rapid age-related loss of their exceptional learning, whereas normal mice at 1 year of age showed little change. The cognitive decline of TGM was abolished by a complex "anti-aging" dietary supplement formulated to promote membrane and mitochondrial integrity, increase insulin sensitivity, reduce reactive oxygen and nitrogen species, and ameliorate inflammation. Results are discussed in the context of reactive oxygen and nitrogen species, long-term potentiation, learning, aging and neuropathology, based on known impacts of the growth hormone axis on the brain, and characteristics of TGM.

http://www.ebmonline...tract/228/7/800

A Complex Dietary Supplement Extends Longevity of Mice
Jennifer A. Lemon1,, Douglas R. Boreham2 and C. David Rollo1

1 Departments of Biology
2 Medical Physics and Applied Radiation Sciences, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

Address correspondence to Jennifer Lemon, Department of Biology, McMaster University, 1280 Main Street West, Hamilton, ON, Canada L8S 4K1. E-mail: lemonja@mcmaster.ca

Key factors implicated in aging include reactive oxygen species, inflammatory processes, insulin resistance, and mitochondrial dysfunction. All are exaggerated in transgenic growth hormone mice (TGM), which display a syndrome resembling accelerated aging. We formulated a complex dietary supplement containing 31 ingredients known to ameliorate all of the above features. We previously showed that this supplement completely abolished the severe age-related cognitive decline expressed by untreated TGM. Here we report that longevity of both TGM and normal mice is extended by this supplement. Treated TGM showed a 28% increase (p <.00008) in mean longevity. An 11% increase in mean longevity was also significant (p <.002093) for treated normal mice, compared to untreated normal mice. These data support the hypothesis that TGM are a model of accelerated aging, and demonstrate that complex dietary supplements may be effective in ameliorating aging or age-related pathologies where simpler formulations have generally failed.

So, its only 11% for non-transgenic mice. (I'm glad they included this number where as I am very skeptical of making a genetic problem and then fixing the problem). 11% from 31 supplements isn't that amazing, there are quite a few studies of one supplement alterations that get close to 11% lifespan extension.
Supplement Mixture:

Vitamin B1b 	0.72 mg/day 
Flax Seed oilh 	21.6 mg/day
Vitamin B3b 	0.72 mg/day 
Folic Acidb 	0.01 mg/day
Vitamin B6b 	0.72 mg/day 
Garlicb 	21.6 mcg/day
Vitamin B12b 	0.72 mcg/day 
Gingerh 	7.2 mg/day
Vitamin Cb 	3.6 mg/day 
Gingko Bilobah 	1.44 mg/day
Vitamin Db 	2.5 IU/day 
Ginseng (Canadian)h 	8.64 mg/day
Vitamin Eb 	1.44 IU/day 
Green Tea Extractsf 	7.2 mg/day
Acetyl L-Carnitinec 	14.4 mg/day 
L-Glutathionea 	0.36 mg/day
Alpha-Lipoic Acide 	0.72 mg/day 
Magnesiumb 	0.72 mg/day
ASAd 	2.5 mg/day 
Melatoning 	0.01 mg/day
Beta Caroteneb 	50.0 IU/day 
N-Acetyl Cysteinee 	7.2 mg/day
Bioflavinoidsh 	4.32 mg/day 
Potassiumb 	0.36 mg/day
Chromium Picolinatei 	1.44 mcg/day 
Rutinh 	0.72 mg/day
Cod Liver Oil 	5.04 IU/day 
Selenium 	1.08 mcg/day
CoEnzyme Q10h 	0.44 mg/day 
Zinc (chelated) 	0.14 mg/day
DHEAg 	0.15  mg/day

So its a pretty long list for 11%. Better than dying earlier though. There are some rogue letters in the above table. I guess that the work is more impressive for preventing brain dysfunction as the mice age.

[maxwatt]

So, its only 11% for non-transgenic mice. (I'm glad they included this number where as I am very skeptical of making a genetic problem and then fixing the problem). 11% from 31 supplements isn't that amazing, there are quite a few studies of one supplement alterations that get close to 11% lifespan extension.
Supplement Mixture:

Vitamin B1b 	0.72 mg/day 
Flax Seed oilh 	21.6 mg/day
Vitamin B3b 	0.72 mg/day 
Folic Acidb 	0.01 mg/day
Vitamin B6b 	0.72 mg/day 
Garlicb 	21.6 mcg/day
Vitamin B12b 	0.72 mcg/day 
Gingerh 	7.2 mg/day
Vitamin Cb 	3.6 mg/day 
Gingko Bilobah 	1.44 mg/day
Vitamin Db 	2.5 IU/day 
Ginseng (Canadian)h 	8.64 mg/day
Vitamin Eb 	1.44 IU/day 
Green Tea Extractsf 	7.2 mg/day
Acetyl L-Carnitinec 	14.4 mg/day 
L-Glutathionea 	0.36 mg/day
Alpha-Lipoic Acide 	0.72 mg/day 
Magnesiumb 	0.72 mg/day
ASAd 	2.5 mg/day 
Melatoning 	0.01 mg/day
Beta Caroteneb 	50.0 IU/day 
N-Acetyl Cysteinee 	7.2 mg/day
Bioflavinoidsh 	4.32 mg/day 
Potassiumb 	0.36 mg/day
Chromium Picolinatei 	1.44 mcg/day 
Rutinh 	0.72 mg/day
Cod Liver Oil 	5.04 IU/day 
Selenium 	1.08 mcg/day
CoEnzyme Q10h 	0.44 mg/day 
Zinc (chelated) 	0.14 mg/day
DHEAg 	0.15  mg/day

So its a pretty long list for 11%. Better than dying earlier though. There are some rogue letters in the above table. I guess that the work is more impressive for preventing brain dysfunction as the mice age.

11% life extension is more impressive when you consider that cutting a man's chance of dying in half, results in an increase in life expectancy of only seven years. That's about 10%.

Seeing a list like this reminds me of what a retired engineer I knew, years ago, who used to work for Zenith Television, told me about how they designed televisions. The engineers would build a prototype that worked well, and met the spec. Then the business people would take parts out, one at a time. When the set stopped working, they put the last part back in, and that became the production model. Seeing the above list, I wonder how many things in the list could be left out, and the mice still live long and well. Quite a few, seems to me.

I wonder which supplement company sponsored the research, and is going to use it to market their newest product.


Edited for speling misteaks

Edited by maxwatt, 24 February 2008 - 04:33 AM.

[niner]

These data support the hypothesis that TGM are a model of accelerated aging, and demonstrate that complex dietary supplements may be effective in ameliorating aging or age-related pathologies where simpler formulations have generally failed.

So, its only 11% for non-transgenic mice. (I'm glad they included this number where as I am very skeptical of making a genetic problem and then fixing the problem). 11% from 31 supplements isn't that amazing, there are quite a few studies of one supplement alterations that get close to 11% lifespan extension.

So its a pretty long list for 11%. Better than dying earlier though. There are some rogue letters in the above table. I guess that the work is more impressive for preventing brain dysfunction as the mice age.

Wow. Huge thanks to s123 for getting this going and lucid for coming through with the data! I watched that video too, and when it came to that part, I remember thinking "what the hey..." but then I dropped the ball. Anyway, it seems like as long as I've been hanging out here, everyone pretty much said "but no one has ever demonstrated life extension in mammals with supplements." So now, not only do we have this 31 supplement regimen, but there are "quite a few studies of one supplement alterations that get close to 11% lifespan extension." Really? I have seriously been looking in the wrong places I guess. And these mice didn't even get Resveratrol, Miralax, and Everclear... As Maxwatt mentioned, the next thing that would be interesting would be reducing the size of the kitchen sink here. This is really encouraging, if you consider that further optimization and addition of new supplements as the science warrants should move things further along. Combining that with the concept of escape velocity, things are looking pretty decent at this hour.

[krillin]

Digging a bit deeper, it looks like this group isn't very good at raising mice.

http://www.imminst.o...?showtopic=6232

Normal mouse lifespan: average 900 days, max 1200 days.

This paper's normal, supplemented group: average 765 days, max 975 days.

Here's what happens when pros give mice supplements.

http://hiqnews.megaf..._Life_Spans.htm

[niner]

Digging a bit deeper, it looks like this group isn't very good at raising mice.

http://www.imminst.o...?showtopic=6232

Normal mouse lifespan: average 900 days, max 1200 days.

This paper's normal, supplemented group: average 765 days, max 975 days.

Here's what happens when pros give mice supplements.

http://hiqnews.megaf..._Life_Spans.htm

Michael Rae, ever bursting my balloon... He's a smart guy, and he makes good points. But still... I'm not that good at human husbandry. Maybe supplements can make up for some of my various errors? I know everyone (rather religiously) says "supplements are no substitute for a poor diet" as though you might as well not take any supplements until your diet is optimal, but realistically, almost no one's diet is optimal. I doubt that I will ever have an optimal diet. So I need to take a less than optimal diet as a given, and work from there. I saw the megafoundation graphs a while back. They certainly make CoQ10 look crappy, and nuthin' beats CR! They did eke out an improvement in max LS with some combination or other, but the curves look awful. I don't get the obsession about Max LS. How likely am I to be the one mouse out of a hundred that makes it the farthest? I like the odds I get with an extended average LS a lot better.

[lucid]

I wonder which supplement company sponsored the research, and is going to use it to market their newest product. thumb.gif

I'm not sure if the study was sponsored by a supplement company. I know that they used 7 different brands of vitamins which indicates that it was done independent of a particular supplement company's funding.

Digging a bit deeper, it looks like this group isn't very good at raising mice.

http://www.imminst.o...?showtopic=6232

Michael does offer some convincing skepticism. I feel that he is probably right most notably on the short lifespan of the controls. I wonder what the study authors reply to that point would be.

[caston]

Any studies on what the effects of supplements taken from the mighty trees to help with glucose metabolism e.g. Pycnogenol could be on the little mickies?

What Protein / Poly/Monosaccharide / fat ratios are best?

And what's this about a "dark side" to CoQ10?

Edited by caston, 24 February 2008 - 12:41 PM.

[Mind]

They certainly make CoQ10 look crappy, and nuthin' beats CR!

Too bad CR is so difficult for most people. At this point in my life I would rather excercise, eat a good diet, and take a few supps than go through starvation.

[caston]

Mind, I can't find the thread but I posted a theory that longevity is invoked because protein sources and reproductive access to females is monopolished by senior or alphamales in the pack. The young male must live long enough to outlive the alphamales in order to reproduce.

In my theory there could be some visible gain in youth span in the above situation even without calorie or protein restriction. Eventually we would (in theory) find out how this mechanism works on a biological level

Edited by caston, 24 February 2008 - 02:33 PM.

[health_nutty]

They certainly make CoQ10 look crappy, and nuthin' beats CR!

Too bad CR is so difficult for most people. At this point in my life I would rather excercise, eat a good diet, and take a few supps than go through starvation.

I understand where you are coming from Mind. I found that most of my fear of CR was becoming a waif.

RIght now I'm doing every 3rd day CR. I can do this without being too hungry or feeling deprived all the time. I cut my calories by about 50-60% by eating really boring foods that day. I eat a package and a half of frozen mixed veggies, 1 chicken breast, 2-3 tablespoons of olive oil, and some celery. I'm also running for 45 minutes on this day (steady state cardio).

The other days I eat healthy, but quite a lot of food.

I would encourage you to try this easier version.

[pone11]

 

Digging a bit deeper, it looks like this group isn't very good at raising mice.

http://www.imminst.o...?showtopic=6232

Normal mouse lifespan: average 900 days, max 1200 days.

This paper's normal, supplemented group: average 765 days, max 975 days.

Here's what happens when pros give mice supplements.

http://hiqnews.megaf..._Life_Spans.htm

Michael Rae, ever bursting my balloon... He's a smart guy, and he makes good points. But still... I'm not that good at human husbandry. Maybe supplements can make up for some of my various errors? I know everyone (rather religiously) says "supplements are no substitute for a poor diet" as though you might as well not take any supplements until your diet is optimal, but realistically, almost no one's diet is optimal. I doubt that I will ever have an optimal diet. So I need to take a less than optimal diet as a given, and work from there. I saw the megafoundation graphs a while back. They certainly make CoQ10 look crappy, and nuthin' beats CR! They did eke out an improvement in max LS with some combination or other, but the curves look awful. I don't get the obsession about Max LS. How likely am I to be the one mouse out of a hundred that makes it the farthest? I like the odds I get with an extended average LS a lot better.

 

 

Does someone have new links for the Megafoundation links on CoQ10?   It looks like they removed them from their site.