124 replies to this topic

[spreader]

I've been taking Melatonin for three days now in the hopes of fixing my horrid sleep-cycle but haven't had much success so far.

The fact that it relaxes me at all is a good sign in my opinion. It might not knock me out, but I think with prolonged use I'll be able to set a better sleeping pattern.

Three days isn't enough to determine usefulness IMO. It took me a few weeks/tries to find an appropriate dosage and time of ingestion. Consistency was key.
Large doses are not beneficial. I personally use 0.7mg, 3mg will give me more vivid dreams which can be fun.

It's not a 100% fix for me, I still sleep at 2-3am. But this is down from 4-6am+.

[diana_2000]

Melatonin messes up my sleep everytime I take it. It helps me a little bit to fall asleep but it is not effective for insomnia. Instead, whenever I take it I wake up two hours earlier, I can't go back to sleep again and the next day I feel very fatigued and groggy. I guess this is a residual effect of melatonin and the result of not getting enough rest when I take it as it shorten the duration of my sleep. This happens even when I take 1 mg. Anyway, it is detrimental both to my sleep and to my executive functioning on next day and I am very sure that I will not take it again. I heard a lot of people having the same bad experience with it.

[pycnogenol]

I heard a lot of people having the same bad experience with it.

No bad experiences for me as melatonin works like a champ each and every night.

Maybe try taking 5-HTP and see if that helps.

[diana_2000]

Maybe try taking 5-HTP and see if that helps.

I tried it and I woke up every two hours, tossing and turning all night. In the morning I woke up sweaty two hours earlier. I sleep better when I don't take anything. Even vitamin B6 alters my sleep and make me wake up earlier, feeling not rested the whole next day.

[Verne]

Yes, and yes. Melatonin has improved the quality of my sleep and it was well worth the cost. It was actually quite cheap considering the benefits. I paid something like $45 (Including Postage) for 300 3mg Melatonin pills. Well worth it. I haven't slept this well in years.

[Verne]

Melatonin messes up my sleep everytime I take it. It helps me a little bit to fall asleep but it is not effective for insomnia. Instead, whenever I take it I wake up two hours earlier, I can't go back to sleep again and the next day I feel very fatigued and groggy. I guess this is a residual effect of melatonin and the result of not getting enough rest when I take it as it shorten the duration of my sleep. This happens even when I take 1 mg. Anyway, it is detrimental both to my sleep and to my executive functioning on next day and I am very sure that I will not take it again. I heard a lot of people having the same bad experience with it.

For how many nights did you use it? I was waking up for the first few nights, feeling groggy and unable to fall asleep again. It took ten days for it to start working for me in any beneficial manner, and I'm so glad I persisted. Being unable to sleep consistently for even just a few days is hell, this stuff has honestly improved my life.

[maxwatt]

One problem with melatonin is the dosage. To mimic the natural blood serum profile of endogenous melatonin, a dose of 0.3 to 0.5 milligrams is adequate. The most common dose of melatonin is 3 milligrams, This will produce much higher levels than one normally sees. There will be significant amounts of melatonin in ones blood eight to 12 hours after taking such a dose, which results in grogginess. A paradoxica reasponse to extra-physiologically high melatonin levels is wakefullness. With a high dose of malatonin, one frequently wakes up three or four hours later, unable to sleep. This accounts for the two most common complaionts of melatonin users.

The lowest dose of melatonin commonly available in a pill is 1 milligram, and even this is high. But the tablets can be cut in half. At least one manufacturer (Sundown) does make 300 microgram pills (0.3 milligrams) which is available in many drugstores, but not in any health-food venue that I have seen.

[Mind]

Some people have claimed that the bio-availability of melatonin is around 50%, so that would make a 1 mg pill close to around the right amount, if it is true.

Also, there was a study recently that showed melatonin working on two important receptors in the brain, one responsible for wakefulness and one responsible for sleep (or something to that effect). I will try to find it. Anyway, it made melatonin supplementation seem to be more complicated, and that it would need to be more targeted in order to promote better sleep.

[chroncile]

I take it because I'm depressed and there was a study that suggested depressed people produce less melatonin than normal people.

[awarren]

The lowest dose of melatonin commonly available in a pill is 1 milligram, and even this is high. But the tablets can be cut in half. At least one manufacturer (Sundown) does make 300 microgram pills (0.3 milligrams) which is available in many drugstores, but not in any health-food venue that I have seen.

There is a 300 mcg time-released product available by LEF, which I have used to achieve deeper sleep; but sometimes the consequences are longer sleep and slight grogginess upon waking. Because this dose is so low and time-released, this might be something to try for those who have not had success with higher doses.

[maxwatt]

The lowest dose of melatonin commonly available in a pill is 1 milligram, and even this is high. But the tablets can be cut in half. At least one manufacturer (Sundown) does make 300 microgram pills (0.3 milligrams) which is available in many drugstores, but not in any health-food venue that I have seen.

There is a 300 mcg time-released product available by LEF, which I have used to achieve deeper sleep; but sometimes the consequences are longer sleep and slight grogginess upon waking. Because this dose is so low and time-released, this might be something to try for those who have not had success with higher doses.

You do not want time release with melatonin. It will result in high levels long after you want melatonin levels to drop in the normal sleep-wake cycle. This would be expected to result in grogginess on walking.

But many time-release products do not release gradually over time, but all at once some time after taking. In that case, the LEF product would be good for taking a few hours before bed. Sub-lingual one would take on going to bed, a plain capsule or pill about an hour before.

Most time release products are encased in an edible wax which is disolved in the gut, which delays release of the product. But sometimes the pill is excreted before the was dissolves. You can test to some extent by putting a pill in a cup of vinegar. If it does not disintegrate in half an hour, you will not absorb the product.

[Mind]

As promised here is what seems to be some very important research regarding melatonin and discussion of the 2 different (opposing receptors) that it works upon. http://www.scienceda...11213190019.htm

he research team discovered that two principal melatonin receptors, known as MT1

and MT2,

played opposite roles in sleep regulation. "We discovered that MT1

receptors act on rapid eye movement (REM) sleep and block non-REM sleep, while MT2

receptors favour non-REM sleep, also known as deep sleep," explains Dr. Gobbi, who is also an associate professor of psychiatry in the Faculty of Medicine at McGill. "Specifying the role of MT2

receptors in melatonin represent a major scientific breakthrough that may designate them as a promising novel target for future treatments of insomnia. This discovery also explains the modest hypnotic effect of the over-the-counter melatonin pills, which act on both conflicting receptors."

Using the drug called UCM765, developed in collaboration with a group of chemists, under the leadership of Professor Tarzia in Urbino and Professor Mor in Parma, Italy which selectively binds to the MT2 receptor, the researchers observed an increase in the phases of deep sleep in rats and mice. Most importantly, UCM765 acts in a brain area called the reticular thalamus, which is the main driver of deep sleep.

Caution, this was a mouse study.

I hope human trials pan out because I definitely need more deep sleep lately.

Edited by Mind, 28 January 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[cat@]

Chiming in here... I'm an insomniac plus I travel a fair bit so I'm either fighting jet-lag or sleep problems. After coming back from the holidays this Xmas I tried 3 milligram of melatonin per night for about 2 weeks. I was waking up around 3-4am and staying up, but attributed the early wakeup mostly to an external racket (a bird). After googling I found that taking too much melatonin can turn on you. I read that melatonin is useful for resetting your body clock to a different timezone, but it can cause one to wake up and stay up. And that's exactly what was happening to me.

The fix to my sleep problems was found here: http://www.longecity...in-ambien-gaba/

Around 9pm I have 2-3 Bacopa Extract. Ten minutes or so before I aim to fall asleep I take 500 mg of L-Tryptophan. That darn bird is still waking me up in the wee hours but I'm now going right back to sleep.

My thanks goes to everyone contributing to that post (informative).

[mixedautumn]

I tried this to induce REM sleep. Sleep study showed I did not enter REM stage, was restless and so forth. I didn't notice an improvement and it made me feel groggy. I might try it again to "reset my body block"as I have strange sleeping habits (I want to sleep all day). but I'm afraid of not waking up. Not literally.

[Mind]

I take 1 milligram and (anecdotally/subjectively) it seems to help me get to sleep and sleep more soundly for about 3 hours or so, then I have restless sleep the rest of the night. I am thinking about trying the time release version to see if the effects last longer.

As far as cost goes, it is one of the cheapest supps out there.

I still take the 1 mg dose most nights. It still has about the same effect after 3 years, which is not much. Lately I have been thinking about trying some of the newer meds.

[APBT]

I take 1 milligram and (anecdotally/subjectively) it seems to help me get to sleep and sleep more soundly for about 3 hours or so, then I have restless sleep the rest of the night. I am thinking about trying the time release version to see if the effects last longer.

As far as cost goes, it is one of the cheapest supps out there.

I still take the 1 mg dose most nights. It still has about the same effect after 3 years, which is not much. Lately I have been thinking about trying some of the newer meds.

Have you considered as individual supps or stacking combinations, with or without the melatonin, any of the following:
GABA
Glycine
Tryptophan (as "TryptoPure")
Also, have you tried a larger or smaller dose of melatonin, or stacking sustain-release with 'regular' melatonin?

[Baten]

I recently tried a melatonin sample, I got it from iherb source naturals brand, sublingual 2.5mg.

Within 10-15 minutes of taking it during a restless night, I was sleeping, I slept my normal ~8isch hours.
Had to say I was disappointed, slept in much quicker but sleep quality felt worse than usual.
I can see it being useful for insomniacs or when trying to sleep in a bus / next to loud neighbors or snoring people, though.

Personally I take 1 capsule of niacinamide 500mg before going to bed. It doesn't make me sleepier but definitely increases sleep quality.
I occasionally combine it with piracetam which seemingly makes me require less sleep (or I am more wakeful on it).

Choline at night could also help insomniacs.

Edited by Baten, 25 April 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[Mind]

I take 1 milligram and (anecdotally/subjectively) it seems to help me get to sleep and sleep more soundly for about 3 hours or so, then I have restless sleep the rest of the night. I am thinking about trying the time release version to see if the effects last longer.

As far as cost goes, it is one of the cheapest supps out there.

I still take the 1 mg dose most nights. It still has about the same effect after 3 years, which is not much. Lately I have been thinking about trying some of the newer meds.

Have you considered as individual supps or stacking combinations, with or without the melatonin, any of the following:
GABA
Glycine
Tryptophan (as "TryptoPure")
Also, have you tried a larger or smaller dose of melatonin, or stacking sustain-release with 'regular' melatonin?

I haven't tried those before. Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into it.

[karma02]

http://www.smart-pub...od-nights-slee/

you are welcome.

[gamesguru]

GABA-A agonists such as valerenic acid or GABA-transaminase inhibitors such as rosmarinic acid. GABA-B agonists such as phenibut. This all may have side effects.

As others have said, there might be, and probably is a difference between timed-released and regular melatonin, although this difference escapes me. This might be said of any supplement, that it has different qualities when in a time-released capsule than when in an ordinary, quick-dissolving gelatin capsule.

Theanine is thought to increase GABA levels, though this mechanism wasn't understood last I checked the archives, and it is also thought to increase dopamine, which is potentially bad.

Bacopa doesn't seem to help fall asleep if you're desperate, and I'm skeptical of its effects on deep sleep.

GABA in itself might not even cross the blood-brain-barrier.
Glycine, I daresay, has very scant evidence in its favour.
And tryptophan/sam-e aren't exactly sold as sleep aids. They're radical imo...as I try not to mess with neurotransmitters. I don't supplement tyrosine or 5-htp for example.

Just thought I'd say a bit about the other potential supplements.

Edited by dasheenster, 26 April 2012 - 04:42 AM.

[tritium]

I noticed that different brands of Melatonin give me completly different effects at similar dosages. One brand was terrible and gave me nightmares with terminal insomnia. I found the best to be controlled release melatonin that gives you a slow release over 8 hours.

[Logic]

I don't know. I'm always sound asleep for 10 hours when I take it.

[prunk]

Works for me. I take every night 500mcg - 2,5mg pharmaceutical grade.

[machete234]

Works great of I use about 1mg and it helps me sleep without being tired in the morning.
But after about a week it is not really working anymore.
I have to take it early like 10-11 so Im not groggy in the morning, even though it can't work that long but maybe it causes some reaction in the body that lasts 8h since I don't think it's time release.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I've tried melatonin doses from 3-25mg. I've found 10-15mg to be optimal for myself. I'd definitely say it improves sleep quality to some degree.

[BlueCloud]

It works, but what cancels it's efficiency in my case is that it gives me nightmares every single time i take it, and at whatever dosage ( and both in immediate release and slow release form ). I then wake up in terror, and it pretty much ruins the night for me.
I never have nightmares usually ( or maybe once every few months ).

[machete234]

I have a new brand with 1mg, cheapest I could get "Puritans Pride" (lol) and I felt a problem drifting off, having a short moment of terror and then being awake again.

But that could be really anything, from substances I consume to psychological reasons to food.

I like to dose melatonin low, I spread the old 3mg capsules I had at least in 3 portions
What do you think is the best brand of melatonin

[MrSan]

3 mg knocks me out most days of the week, I go to sleep as a lamb and wake up as a lion. It's very consistent and effective for me so I voted yes to both questions.

Edited by MrSan, 21 June 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[Mike C]

Stuff worsens my mood the next day. It increases rem sleep and this is probably why. I already get enough, perhaps too much. this is not an off the cuff. I have experimented with it for years. Taking various doses and timing etc. it clearly worsens mood in my case.

BTW by too much I mean too much REM sleep. At least that is my speculation, but it absolutely worsens mood for me for whatever reason.

[mrvontar]

I've taken 25 mg of it at once and it hasn't done anything for me. Even at the smaller doses I don't think I noticed anything