178 replies to this topic

[zorba990]

rhc124,

Now, there are many others that can be possible issues, but the one that I think is relevant is below. I think it might be it, because the episodes you posted about appear to be transient and intense, rather than increasing over time. So in my laymans opinion, it may be a "Crystal-Induced Arthritis" because of Uric Acid:

Gout and/or Uric Acid:
==============
I think it maybe high Uric Acid. When you have high amounts, Uric Acid forms crystals in joints, rather than being excreted in the urine. Uric Acid is the final oxidation product of purine catabolism, basically metabolic pathways to synthesize and break down purines. Adenosine appears to be one such purine, and it appears that a relationship may exist between Uric Acid and Plasma Adenosine Levels, at least in one study with women with preeclampsia: http://content.karge...e.asp?Doi=52918

Very interesting! I wonder if anyone has first hand experience using Cherries to reduce uric acid?
(I've heard this many times but have no direct experience with it)

Jacob, Robert A., et al. June, 2003 Consumption of Cherries Lowers Plasma Urate in Healthy Women. Journal of Nutrition 133, pp 1826–1829.

[rhc124]

Thanks Anthony for your suggestions. That is something to consider but before taking Resveratrol I took a low dose of aspirin everyday for years without the symptoms. Maybe someone can drum up more research on this.

When I went to see my doctor about the lower abdomen pain, which was confirmed to be diverticulitis and I don't believe it has any relation to resveratrol, I asked him to do a serum copper test. I thought that maybe my problems that I mentioned in the previous post might be due to that. Also, there is one other thing that I did not mention in my post. This summer I strained my groin when getting out of a chair. But anyway, back to the test. On my next visit he said that my copper was normal, he did not give me the number. Also, I understand that Cipro is a very strong chelator of copper , which I had to take that for two weeks to treat the diverticulitis. The joint problems did not return while taking the cipro yet they did after only a few days on resveratrol, though I should note it was only in the shoulder.

I do agree that the average layman, and that includes me, is more likely to only post when they have experienced some type of symptom, though I have posted on the benefits as well at times.

[stephen_b]

Because of this study, it maybe that uric acid may be increased while taking resveratrol for short periods of time.

Hmm, I see in the wikipedia article on uric acid the sentence: "both accumulated copper and low vitamin B2 can exacerbate low uric acid levels". That got me wondering, if high copper can exacerbate low uric acid levels, can low copper cause an increase in uric acid levels?

Stephen

[ilanso]

Because of this study, it maybe that uric acid may be increased while taking resveratrol for short periods of time.

Hmm, I see in the wikipedia article on uric acid the sentence: "both accumulated copper and low vitamin B2 can exacerbate low uric acid levels". That got me wondering, if high copper can exacerbate low uric acid levels, can low copper cause an increase in uric acid levels?

Stephen

Let's not forget E.T.'s uric acid was below the normal range.

[stephen_b]

Let's not forget E.T.'s uric acid was below the normal range.

Good point. -- Stephen

[Anthony_Loera]

The suggestion regarding Uric Acid was specifically for rhc124 because of his posts, it was not for ET.

ET may have other issues.

A

[E.T.]

My latest blood test results are attached here. Well, I think I can rule out the hypothesis that taking DHEA caused adrenal fatigue resulting in low cortisol, since my cortisol count are high. My testosterone is also pretty high. Here are the two pages of the blood test:


By the way, I came across this one article on the net saying that mice in which glutathione levels were too high acquired damaged hearts. Another article said too little free radicals caused high body fatigue and weakness. They said that you need some free radicals to play a part in tissue repair: the free radicals serve as indications that repair is needed. so, if I am taking too much anti-oxidants, then maybe this is why my joints are not repairing themselves and are just breaking down.

Attached Files

•  1_of_2.jpg   173.28KB   60 downloads
•  2_of_2.jpg   81.37KB   46 downloads

Edited by E.T., 08 November 2008 - 09:34 AM.

[E.T.]

Some new posts on my "Resveratrol/Joint Pain" thread at http://forum.lef.org...=35&m=47492&p=2

I just got over a terrible case of distal bicep tendinitis that lasted about a year...it's a very rare form of tendinitis, usually only seen in bodybuilders, and I'm far from a bodybuilder.
It was very stubborn to treat, requiring platlet rich plasma injections (PRP), which I recommend to anyone with chronic tendinitis to look into. Doctors were at a loss as to how I developed the problem, as was I. Upon reading this post, I realize that I did develop the problem a few months after starting to take 500 mg of resveratrol. Could it be resveratrol that caused all my misery? Unbelievable if it was, since I thought I was improving my health!

interesting
i doubled up on resveratrol a week ago
knees have been much worse
plan to stop now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maxwatt]

If we wanted to test various brands for contaminants, how much does a COA cost to have done?

Full test for heavy metals to EU standards, plus resveratrol (cis and trans) plus emodin, bacterial contaminants by plate count, about $700. It takes 20 to 30 grams of material. I've run these tests on what I have bought in bulk. Anthony, whose banner ad is at the top of this page, tests all his batches for these substances. He is perhaps the most reliable retail supplier out there, though I disagree with him on the need for micronization for bioavailability.

Why would heavy metal contamination even be a problem with res? I have never heard of other supplements being contaminated, so why is res having this problem (if in fact metal poisoning is causing their pain).

I've never found a bad batch, but Anthony and others have. Virtually all resveratrol is extracted from Knotweed that is grown in China. Eastern and northern China have industrialized, and are full of coal fired power plants. The fallout downwind of the plants has contaminated soil with heavy metals, especially mercury. The plants take these up, and they are concentrated in the extraction process. Any supplement or food marketed in the European Union is required to be tested for mercury, cadmium, lead and chromium.

Knotweed from Yunnan, Guanxi and western Hunan should be free of such contaminants, as the areas are still mostly rural. Testing is still necessary unless you are buying your root from known brokers in these areas, and extracting it in your own facility.

As for other supplements not being contaminated, Consumer Labs has found some problems with name brands. EPA/DHA frequently has high mercury levels from the fish they are made from. Contamination is not the only problem. I no longer take bilberry, for instance. Virtually all of it is counterfeit material that tests as bilberry but is inactive. Blueberry extracts such as LEF's are pricey, but should contain what they say. Trade publications such as Food Navigator have more information.

[hmm]

Some new posts on my "Resveratrol/Joint Pain" thread at http://forum.lef.org...=35&m=47492&p=2

I just got over a terrible case of distal bicep tendinitis that lasted about a year...it's a very rare form of tendinitis, usually only seen in bodybuilders, and I'm far from a bodybuilder.
It was very stubborn to treat, requiring platlet rich plasma injections (PRP), which I recommend to anyone with chronic tendinitis to look into. Doctors were at a loss as to how I developed the problem, as was I. Upon reading this post, I realize that I did develop the problem a few months after starting to take 500 mg of resveratrol. Could it be resveratrol that caused all my misery? Unbelievable if it was, since I thought I was improving my health!

interesting
i doubled up on resveratrol a week ago
knees have been much worse
plan to stop now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi ET, glad to see you are still up and about Internet-wise. Hope your condition is at least stable and you have been able to keep your job. Have you had any opportunity to look into getting tested for heavy metal poisoning?

[E.T.]

Hi ET, glad to see you are still up and about Internet-wise. Hope your condition is at least stable and you have been able to keep your job. Have you had any opportunity to look into getting tested for heavy metal poisoning?

Thanks.

I have not done the metal poisoning tests as yet: the physician was already somewhat hesitant to do the cortisol and testosterone tests. I think that for insurance purposes, they can't order tests that are "unneeded" or see no reason for, otherwise the insurance company can get angry and go after the physician and customer.

[Shay]

Hello all,
I just want to add my experience regarding resv and joints.

I bought 99% VP and started using from 0.6 to 1.5g mixed in milk over the course of several weeks. The resv was white, not yellowed. I did not change my habits with regard to exercise (minimal). This continued for about a month and half. There was an energy boost with the initial use, but that quickly seemed to fade. After about 3 weeks, I felt like my joints were acting "strange", a little more popping and general soreness. At about five weeks I stopped using resv because I was having achilles pains, shoulder pains, and wrist pains. There would be sudden flares of pain in those regions for no apparent reason. Nowhere near the extreme experiences of others here, but not acceptable in any case. My last resv use was about 2 months ago and the sudden flares of pain have gone, but my shoulders feel prone to injury and simple reaching over my head and back for things leaves me sore for weeks. Also, my wrists and thumb joints are significantly more "cracky" than they ever where before resv when manipulating objects.

I feel fairly confident that these symptoms are associated with the resv (I do not otherwise supplement). It hasn't ruined my life, but at this point I'm glad I stopped using it before things got out of hand. I guess I'll have to rely on wine for my life extension goals

[nowayout]

I have followed this thread with interest, and decided to post my own experience.

In April of '08 I briefly experimented with the Resveratrol Liquid supplement by LifeTime, taking about 300mg Resveratrol per day for about two weeks, and after a three week break again for just three or four days. The weekend I started, some pre-existing symmetric shoulder tendonitis/bursitis, that had almost gone away already, suddenly has a major flare-up. Ever since, it has not gone away. I tried cutting down on upper body exercise, eventually cutting it out altogether and resting. Just made it worse. Three months of physical therapy, which I have followed religiously, has failed to make any difference, except that it has gotten a little worse. Last week I finally had a cortisone shot in the worst area. The shot has not made the slightest difference either.

Apart from this, roughly then I started to get joint pain, which appears to be tendonitis, everywhere. I have worked out for twenty years. Minor tendon strains would happen from time to time, but would always go away within a week or two. What is different now is that 1) minor strains do not heal, so they accumulate 2) they get worse 3) they get worse with physical therapy 3) they get worse without physical therapy 4) all the long-forgotten tendon strains I have ever had in my life have also been flaring up at the same time. At this moment , in addition to the shoulder problem, I have elbow and wrist tendonitis, as well as tendonitis in both hips, knees and one ankle. Weight training has been out of the question for a while now, and cardio is having to be reduced more every time. Walking is okay if I am careful, sitting in any position more than 15 minutes aches, as does lying down. Of course I don't sleep well and I am getting quite depressed.

Tests have so far been negative for RA, Lupus, Lyme disease. For my inflamed shoulder I had x-rays, an MRI, a nerve and muscle study, all negative, except for the latter showing muscle spasm in the worst affected area. I have had saliva tests for testosterone, DHT, DHEA, estradiol and cortisol. All were pretty much optimal except for estradiol and cortisol, which were both a little high, but not by much.

I don't klnow what more to say, except to repeat that these issues started during or shortly after a two-week bout of Resveratrol use. It might be pure coincidence. Unlike some others in this thread, the issue did not go away once I stopped taking Resveratrol, though.

[Roses]

Hi ET, glad to see you are still up and about Internet-wise. Hope your condition is at least stable and you have been able to keep your job. Have you had any opportunity to look into getting tested for heavy metal poisoning?

Thanks.

I have not done the metal poisoning tests as yet: the physician was already somewhat hesitant to do the cortisol and testosterone tests. I think that for insurance purposes, they can't order tests that are "unneeded" or see no reason for, otherwise the insurance company can get angry and go after the physician and customer.

ET
How are you?
What are the test results?

[2tender]

Andre, if you are taking actual prescribed meds for anything else this could a side effect of the combination of them, psychogenic pain, or simply arthritis, lifting light weights and weight lifting in general should help, it has in my experience. Perhaps, if possible, you could eliminate all supps and meds for a while and see what happens. Are you getting adequate warmth when you sleep at night? Tossing and turning or just tenseing up while you sleep, grinding your teeth?

[gloria yin]

I have not had that issue and have been taking it since 2006.

My wife is 41, 124lbs and is taking 1 gram (500mg morning, and 500mg at night). She also has no issues.
(and... trust me, she would definitely tell me if this was an issue she had... it is rare she would'nt tell me about an 'issue'...)


Maybe you should consider 99%, as it will definitely tell you if it's resveratrol or something else in the 50% powder.

thanks
Anthony Loera

maybe 98%or 99%will be better for you ,as i know,there are small content Emodin,maybe 2-3%,and any other compound ,i have no idea how the other compound cause!
thank you !

gloria

[2tender]

In my experience, using 99% pure, Micronized product dosed within 3 hours of awakeining has provided the best results.

[E.T.]

ET
How are you?
What are the test results?

Still alive, just very weak joints now. It ain't no thang though, the universe will still go on.

[maxwatt]

ET
How are you?
What are the test results?

Still alive, just very weak joints now. It ain't no thang though, the universe will still go on.

Did you ever get tested for heavy metal poisoning?

[automita]

Hello,

I have been using tons of supplements with no problems. I also jog 1.5 miles every other day with no joint problems. But, since I started taking 300 mg trans-resveratrol, I am getting "prickly" pains in my knees, and now in my elbow joint. Can anyone explain this? The resveratrol I use is a 50% standardized one from japanese knot weed, the cheapest one from Revgenetics.com. I just want to know if I should stop using it due to personal intolerance to the product, though the product itself may very well be just fine: it may just be my personal biology.

Thanks.

i had the same problem then i switched to the liquid res. and it went away.

[Roses]

Hi ET
see the thread on
http://www.imminst.o...ent-t30678.html

THis may help you.

[nittybitty]

Hate to bump an old thread - I have wondered what happened to E.T. I recently started experiencing the same problems after taking Country Life Resveratrol Plus for a few months (50% - 100 mg from 200mg)

First noticed in the morning (popping/creaking/soreness in my feet) and throughout the day fingers pop, sometimes ache, etc. This thread bears witness to how hard diagnosing this is.

After 60 days on this Resveratrol product, I added pTeroPure (50mg).

After 30 days, I added ALCAR (500mg) + R-ALA (100mg)

15 days later, this popping and pain started. It is brutal. I am 43, 6-1, 200 lbs, don't drink or smoke. Coincidentally after the popping in my joints first started, I read the interview in Wired with TIm Ferriss where he indicated he stopped taking Resveratrol because of the reported joint problems.

So... Is it the emodin in the Country Life Product (Never made it through the 120 pill bottle - maybe I will have it tested to see what is in the 100mg that is not Resveratrol).See: http://www.longecity...city-in-humans/ for more info

I take chlorella with every meal - is that along with the ALA and the Resveratrol chelating some nutrients that are causing calcium deposits in my joints, or something?

Is it SAM-e depletion from the R-ALA (http://www.longecity...-sam-depletion/)

Whatever has happened to me, it has been swift and spooky. The pain seems mostly in my fingers right now, sometimes in my feet.

Today was my last day on Resveratrol. I haven't decided about stopping the other potential culprits (R-ALA, Pterostilbene, etc) but I almost certainly will.

It is a shame so many have suffered (from whatever the cause - not saying it is Resveratrol) when all we were seeking was to be be responsible about our health.

E.T.'s plight strikes a chord with what I am starting to experience. I will update my progress here. What scares me the most is how fast this happened and how seemingly irreversible it is, at least in E.T.'s case.

Edited by nittybitty, 26 July 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Hebbeh]

Hate to bump an old thread - I have wondered what happened to E.T. I recently started experiencing the same problems after taking Country Life Resveratrol Plus for a few months (50% - 100 mg from 200mg)

First noticed in the morning (popping/creaking/soreness in my feet) and throughout the day fingers pop, sometimes ache, etc. This thread bears witness to how hard diagnosing this is.

After 60 days on this Resveratrol product, I added pTeroPure (50mg).

After 30 days, I added ALCAR (500mg) + R-ALA (100mg)

15 days later, this popping and pain started. It is brutal. I am 43, 6-1, 200 lbs, don't drink or smoke. Coincidentally after the popping in my joints first started, I read the interview in Wired with TIm Ferriss where he indicated he stopped taking Resveratrol because of the reported joint problems.

So... Is it the emodin in the Country Life Product (Never made it through the 120 pill bottle - maybe I will have it tested to see what is in the 100mg that is not Resveratrol).See: http://www.longecity...city-in-humans/ for more info

I take chlorella with every meal - is that along with the ALA and the Resveratrol chelating some nutrients that are causing calcium deposits in my joints, or something?

Is it SAM-e depletion from the R-ALA (http://www.longecity...-sam-depletion/)

Whatever has happened to me, it has been swift and spooky. The pain seems mostly in my fingers right now, sometimes in my feet.

Today was my last day on Resveratrol. I haven't decided about stopping the other potential culprits (R-ALA, Pterostilbene, etc) but I almost certainly will.

It is a shame so many have suffered (from whatever the cause - not saying it is Resveratrol) when all we were seeking was to be be responsible about our health.

E.T.'s plight strikes a chord with what I am starting to experience. I will update my progress here. What scares me the most is how fast this happened and how seemingly irreversible it is, at least in E.T.'s case.

From my experience, lack of estrogen due to resveratrol's potent aromatase inhibition. When I added 50mg of DHEA which readily aromatases into estrogen, all joint issues went away.

[nittybitty]

Hebbeh, thanks. Did your joints crack/pop as well?

[Turnbuckle]

Why destroy your joints with Resveratrol when it will likely not extend your life?

[nittybitty]

Why destroy your joints with Resveratrol when it will likely not extend your life?

Here you are committing the logical fallacy of begging the question - your premise that I or the OP of this thread want to destroy their joints with Resveratrol is simply not true. I don't want to, and I stopped in an effort to figure out what caused my joint problem. So did the OP, so did others. In fact I challenge you to find one person that had debilitating joint pain they attributed to Resveratrol and continued using it. I don't think that person exists on this forum.

[maxwatt]

Several continued taking it after adding Vitamin D3 in adequate amounts to their regimen. Most of the cases of muscle pain resolved from this supplementation. DHEA as a treatment is a relatively recent find for me.

WRT life extension, though resveratrol, did not extend life span of normal diet (non obese) mice it did according to Sinclair's paper improve their health during their lifespan, it that they were more active and fit. The mice died overwhelmingly of cancer, which mice are prone to. Resveratrol does not inhibit most cancers, mammary cancer being one possible exception, at least in mice. Extrapolating that to humans is difficult, but we have seen reports here consistent with mitochiondrial enhancement; Auwerx mice on biopsy showed increased mitochondrial density and size. Athletes here have reported improved aerobic performance from its use. I suspect its use will prevent or alleviate the sarcopenia due to mitochondrial myopathy that is an all too frequent accompaniment to aging.

Resveratrol's action on mitochondria is purported to work by causing apoptosis of the defective ones, so the healthy ones are free to multiply. Carbon C60 seems to work by improving the efficiency of mitochondria, so the defective ones function a bit better. Seems to me these might be complementary supplements.

[Turnbuckle]

Why destroy your joints with Resveratrol when it will likely not extend your life?

Here you are committing the logical fallacy of begging the question - your premise that I or the OP of this thread want to destroy their joints with Resveratrol is simply not true. I don't want to, and I stopped in an effort to figure out what caused my joint problem. So did the OP, so did others. In fact I challenge you to find one person that had debilitating joint pain they attributed to Resveratrol and continued using it. I don't think that person exists on this forum.

I didn't say people wanted to destroy their joints. People took it because of data that showed it increased the lifespan of microscopic creatures, but the more recent data on a variety of higher animals shows that is questionable. Some still look for an answer to the joint problem, be it D3 or DHEA, however, that's using your body as a test animal to correct a major problem with a product that has questionable value to begin with.

From a meta-analysis published last month:

In summary, we can report that few species conclusively show life extension in response to resveratrol. As such, we question the practice of the substance being marketed as a life-extending health supplement for humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22718956

Edited by Turnbuckle, 26 July 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[Hebbeh]

I've been using resveratrol for 6 years and it most definitely increases quality of life which for me is way more valuable than simple quantity of life. It's my most valuable supplement in terms of effect on my functioning and performance along with uridine....and the jury is still out on C60. What's the use of living forever if your performance is subpar?

[zorba990]

I've been using resveratrol for 6 years and it most definitely increases quality of life which for me is way more valuable than simple quantity of life. It's my most valuable supplement in terms of effect on my functioning and performance along with uridine....and the jury is still out on C60. What's the use of living forever if your performance is subpar?

Agreed. Resveratrol's positive effects on skin, hair, endurance and body composition is half-decade tested for me anyway. Hopefully C60 will be a nice adjunct.