50 replies to this topic

[Phreak]

Right, just to give a heads up I take a daily Nootropic stack - split between the morning (8am) and afternoon (2pm) consisting of:

Piracetam (2 x 1.6g)
Oxiracetam (2 x 800mg)
DMAE (2 x 500mg)
Centrophenoxine (2 x 250mg)
L-Huperzine A (2 x 100mcg)
Gotu Kola (2 x 500mg)
Vinpocetine (2 x 10mg)
Pyritinol (2 x 200mg)
ALCAR (2 x 500mg)
Alpha-Lipoic Acid (2 x 150mg)
L-Dopa (1 x 250mg - maybe once a week alongside Green Tea extract)

I also have chronic insomnia for which I cycle my usage of (in order to avoid dependence of any sort) various supplements and meds. ie. I'll take one supplement one night, then a different one the next, skip a day etc...:

2.5mg Melatonin
200mg 5-HTP
200mg Picamilon
50mg Diphenhydramine
200mg L-Theanine
2-4mg Clonazepam (I very rarely take this; only during really bad evenings)

This is my second time taking a Nootropic stack. I take it annually for a period of two months around exam time. I sometimes combine with Modafinil, Desmopressin and Methylphenidate (rarely) for periods of intense study, and find it to have an extremely positive effect on my general work ethic, learning capacity, memory recall and mood.
Anyway, to the point - Lucid Dreaming.

Obviously, as I have insomnia, this practice proves quite difficult. However, two years ago (pre-sleep issue days) I studied ludic dreaming in depth and tried avidly for about 3 months. During that time I acquired one lucid dream. It was very short and fragmented but it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life (I have tried a fair few psychadelic chemicals so I have a good comparison). It was just the most amazing feeling ever.
For those who don't know, lucid dreaming is basically when you become conscious during the period of REM sleep. It means you have the ability to exert complete and utter control over what happens in your dream. If you want to fly, you fly. If you want to meet celebrities, you do. It may not sound great but think about it; the only point when you realize that your dream was not real is upon awakening. Before that point, it is an entirely real experience which you react to physically and emotionally. So, imagine this: when you have control over your actions into your dreams, it does not feel like you are dreaming at all. You evoke all the real emotions and physical sensations as if it were really happening. Thus, if - during a lucid dream - you decide to fly into space, you don't just imagine it, you actually do. Okay, obviously you are imagining it, but the point is that any sensations derived from the experience equate to any feelings you would get from actually experiencing it in real life. It's hard to explain, but I highly recommend you have a look on the Lucid Dreaming Wikipedia Page for more info...

Having started my Nootropic stack again I have gained more motivation to actually engage in attempting to lucid dream again. I tried last night (unsuccessfully) and I will continue to try until I achieve one. I have been doing alot of reading regarding substances that potentially facilitate or increase the chances of experiencing lucidity of dreams, and have found that actually my Nootropic stack seems to be of quite a lot of benefit. I have decided tonight to take a select few of my Nootropics an hour before I go to bed to see if - at the very least - I can improve the vividness of my dream, and hopefully obtain lucidity (although very unlikely as it can take weeks to months) Still, I remain hopeful.

What I have gathered is that cholinergic and dopaminergic drugs can a) help reduce the time it takes to acquire REM sleep, b) increase length of REM sleep, c) promote dream recall (important when developing lucid dreaming skills as it allow you to find "signals", personal to you, that may help indicate to you that you are dreaming). Melatonin has also been proved to improve quality of REM sleep as it is the bodies' natural sleep hormone. 5-HTP and L-Theanine may also help as serotonin is associated with restful REM sleep. There have also been a fair few anecdotal reports on Piracetam promoting wakefulness and a refreshed feeling in the morning. Galantamine is also renound for being a Nootropic with positive effects on lucid dreaming, but I don't have this as I have never had use for it before.
So, with this in mind, I potentially can make use of:

-racetams (Piracetam & Oxiractem)
DMAE/Centrophenoxine
L-Huperzine A
5-HTP
L-Theanine
L-DOPA
Melatonin

I will be trying out these alongside various Lucid Dream Induction Techniques over the next few weeks to see if I can obtain a lucid dream. Of course, ultimately I would like to be able to acquire lucidity in my dreams without any herbal aid, but my thinking is that, seeing as I am taking most of the Nootropics anyway, I may as well try and make use of them whilst I can.

Anyway, I know this has been a rather long winded post but here is my plan for tonight :-
I'm going to take 3g Piracetam, 1.6g Oxiracetam, 1g DMAE and 200mcg Huperzine A one hour before I go to bed. I'll then take Melatonin as I normally would (sublingually). I will fall asleep using fairly basic lucid dream induction methods (you can see examples on the Wiki site) and set set my alarm to wake me up after about 4.5hrs - about the time of REM sleep. I will then put on a lucid dream induction tape - one that basically repeatedly re-affirms "You are dreaming now..." - over some quiet music, and get a final 2 hours sleep before I have to get up. This is the ultimate goal. Chances are it'll most definitely not go to plan and I'll end up getting no sleep () but it's worth a try.

I'll carry on doing this; trying out various different combinations of Nootropics at different times throughout the day and before bed, and see if I get any result. I'll keep it posted here. It'll be nice if I do find a combination that helps as I am essentially a novice and it would be nice to give hope to people who are also trying. I know from personal experience that it is very easy to give up as it is very frustrating going to so much effort for seemingly a few unreliable seconds

Has anyone else has anyone else had any experience with lucid dreaming? If so, post them! Did you take supplements/Nootropics to "boost" the chances, how long did it take you etc...?
All appreciated!

[health_nutty]

Right, just to give a heads up I take a daily Nootropic stack - split between the morning (8am) and afternoon (2pm) consisting of:

Has anyone else has anyone else had any experience with lucid dreaming? If so, post them! Did you take supplements/Nootropics to "boost" the chances, how long did it take you etc...?
All appreciated!

The most effective method for inducing a lucid dream was to practice very regular dreams checks.
When I was in the habit of checking every 15 minutes or so and I would have multiple lucid dreams nearly every night.
The idea is if you do dream checks when you are awake, you will do dream checks when you are asleep.

Supplements didn't make much of a difference. DMAE acts as a stimulant for me, so taking it before bed wasn't good. You could try taking it in the middle of the night.

I agree lucid dreams are really really amazing (especially your first few). The most beautiful thing I've ever seen (in a dream or out) is an extremely vividly colored tree in autumn inside one of my first lucid dreams.

[Phreak]

No effect last night. Woke up 4.5hrs after going to sleep and tried to enter a lucid dream but failed.
I will try again tonight with just 5-HTP (200mg) and L-DOPA (250mg)

[Lurker]

Bacopa seemed to increase the vividness of my dreams when taking it(or maybe it was dream recall), although i have no idea if vividness = lucidity. It had an impact similar to when i first started taking melatonin.

Ashgwanda has alot of consistent anecdotal account of increasing the vividness of dreams, again not sure if this is related to lucidity.

[Zoroaster]

Right, just to give a heads up I take a daily Nootropic stack - split between the morning (8am) and afternoon (2pm) consisting of:

Has anyone else has anyone else had any experience with lucid dreaming? If so, post them! Did you take supplements/Nootropics to "boost" the chances, how long did it take you etc...?
All appreciated!

The most effective method for inducing a lucid dream was to practice very regular dreams checks.
When I was in the habit of checking every 15 minutes or so and I would have multiple lucid dreams nearly every night.
The idea is if you do dream checks when you are awake, you will do dream checks when you are asleep.

Supplements didn't make much of a difference. DMAE acts as a stimulant for me, so taking it before bed wasn't good. You could try taking it in the middle of the night.

I agree lucid dreams are really really amazing (especially your first few). The most beautiful thing I've ever seen (in a dream or out) is an extremely vividly colored tree in autumn inside one of my first lucid dreams.

I have to agree. I studied lucid dreams myself a couple years ago. I got in the habit of looking at my hands every ten minutes or so and with that one change almost all of my dreams became lucid. For those that aren't aware hands usually look nuts in dreams. Like 6 fingers or really long fingers or things like that. So since I was in the habit of glancing at my hand I would do so in my dreams and see that they looked crazy, and then realize I was dreaming. Eventually I didn't even have to look at my hands anymore. It was like in my dreams I knew I was dreaming almost right from the start.

I stopped trying for lucid dreams every night because I got frustrated. I never learned how to control them. I was concious but I had very little control over my surroundings. Other people in my dreams wouldn't obey my orders and they'd talk back to me, I could never fly correctly. I couldn't successfully make things appear the way I wanted. Things would go in and out of focus and I often lost the dream and woke up. I'm sure there's some interesting psychology going on there. Maybe I'll go back to it sometime.

[deekz]

Right, just to give a heads up I take a daily Nootropic stack - split between the morning (8am) and afternoon (2pm) consisting of:

Has anyone else has anyone else had any experience with lucid dreaming? If so, post them! Did you take supplements/Nootropics to "boost" the chances, how long did it take you etc...?
All appreciated!

The most effective method for inducing a lucid dream was to practice very regular dreams checks.
When I was in the habit of checking every 15 minutes or so and I would have multiple lucid dreams nearly every night.
The idea is if you do dream checks when you are awake, you will do dream checks when you are asleep.

Supplements didn't make much of a difference. DMAE acts as a stimulant for me, so taking it before bed wasn't good. You could try taking it in the middle of the night.

I agree lucid dreams are really really amazing (especially your first few). The most beautiful thing I've ever seen (in a dream or out) is an extremely vividly colored tree in autumn inside one of my first lucid dreams.

I have to agree. I studied lucid dreams myself a couple years ago. I got in the habit of looking at my hands every ten minutes or so and with that one change almost all of my dreams became lucid. For those that aren't aware hands usually look nuts in dreams. Like 6 fingers or really long fingers or things like that. So since I was in the habit of glancing at my hand I would do so in my dreams and see that they looked crazy, and then realize I was dreaming. Eventually I didn't even have to look at my hands anymore. It was like in my dreams I knew I was dreaming almost right from the start.

I stopped trying for lucid dreams every night because I got frustrated. I never learned how to control them. I was concious but I had very little control over my surroundings. Other people in my dreams wouldn't obey my orders and they'd talk back to me, I could never fly correctly. I couldn't successfully make things appear the way I wanted. Things would go in and out of focus and I often lost the dream and woke up. I'm sure there's some interesting psychology going on there. Maybe I'll go back to it sometime.

I have had many lucid dreams and I agree, its great. Everytime this happens, i always portray spider man and start slinging from buildings. I can't, however, go upside down for some reason (almost as though I can't imagine myself doing it.) Materializing objects is very hard and have never really successfully accomplished it. I once wanted to a light saber to appear from nowhere, but since I knew i was dreaming, i knew realistically it wasn't possible. Your mind puts in a bit of reality when you know you can do anything. Almost like the matrix, where you obey physics, but not entirely. High dose theanine always produced the most vivid, realistic dreams EVER. 5-htp produced dreams, although most of the time, pretty nightmarish.

Also, your dreams can be vivid or can be seem odd. for example, many of my dreams are black and white. I have never lucid dreamed in a vivid scenario.

[Phreak]

How much is a "high dose" of theanine?

[deekz]

How much is a "high dose" of theanine?

1.5+ grams

[stephen_b]

Right, just to give a heads up I take a daily Nootropic stack - split between the morning (8am) and afternoon (2pm) consisting of:

Alpha-Lipoic Acid (2 x 150mg)
L-Dopa (1 x 250mg - maybe once a week alongside Green Tea extract)[/b]

I also have chronic insomnia

I don't know if this is your case, but Ray Sahelian mentions the potential for insomnia with doses of ALA of over 50 mg.

Stephen

[mentatpsi]

though i don't entirely recommend it (past experiments haven't been satisfactory), DMAE enhanced my dreams significantly. They were much more vivid under its influence than anything else.

[Rags847]

For what it's worth, I went back to taking Piracetam yesterday after a 3 month hiatus and definitely was thinking more during my dreams - definitely had enhanced dream awareness and complexity.

[Bluejay1]

These are things I KNOW to result in lucid and intense dreaming:

-nicotine for nonsmokers (probably won't do much for smokers): I can't recommend bc of likely addiction issues this but ayahuasqueros use this technique, no I'm not making this up and I have much respect for the large amount of plant knowledge Shamans in the Amazon possess which I obviously DO NOT. I only have 1 time experience with this method, being a non-smoker I used a large qty of dip (man that crap is gross) right before bed. Please note that tobacco is highly toxic if ingested but you are likely to throw it up anyway if you make the mistake of swallowing, of course this is common knowledge to tobacco users, but not to non-users. Be sure to spit out that foul tasting garbage, it made me nauseous even though I spat it out like crazy, it will cause salivation btw. Again I don't recommend.

-Coming off or on certain psychiatric drugs: this would be too long to go into any detail, but my first-hand experiences are with SSRI's, ag--------, and others. I have other friends that confirm this effect. These periods only seem to come during adjustment periods to new meds and not once the brain has stabilized itself to the effects of the drug

-NPEP12 / memoprove (and likely also Cerebrolysin): my exp is w/ memoprove. It operates on the same basis as the previous category, however, NPEP12 dreams are much more lucid and rather strong. I don't really care for them either. But it works.

I'm not a lucid dream fan. Dreams I have are mostly nonsensical even if they sometimes contain familiar people in them they are usually the most uncomfortable dreams.

Edited by Bluejay1, 25 November 2009 - 12:24 AM.

[Bluejay1]

I can second Lurker's suggestion of Bacopa as well, but so far only large quantities (probably NOT a good idea in terms of safety/health as it is likely toxic when used like this) of FRESH macerated bacopa has done this for me. I wouldn't be surprised if bacopa could cause an overdose as the drugged effect was rather pronounced similar to psych-drugs in strength. Bacopa is somewhat challenging for me, but I remember the time I used it like this it cause some whacky dreams like I was just starting or discontinuing an SSRI or something, and then the next morning I woke up feeling sedated and drugged like a boxer hit me over the head with a brick and I was just waking up out of the coma that produced. Bacopa was rather stronger fresh. I've tried bacopa in MANY forms and so far fresh has the most noticeable effects. I've lost favor with bacopa as it seems to interfere with other junk I take.

[Neuro-active]

I find if you are a user of a certain herb, use it a lot before bed (or when ever) to gain a tolerance. When you are using it, you probably won't have dreams. However, when one stops usage abruptly, he/she will experience a rush of dreams for the following few nights. You could use that to your advantage to force yourself to have vivid dreams if you are having trouble in that department. My 2 cents

[chrono]

I'm not adept at lucid dreaming. Read about the concept about a decade ago, but have not yet had the discipline to put it to practice. Am naturally a lengthy sleeper, and have very intense and surreal dreams.

Been playing with my piracetam dose for a couple of weeks, I need a choline source (which I can't afford atm) to combat brain fog if I use it too many days in a row. But as I've been going on and off, I've noticed it has a pronounced and remarkable effect on my dream geography.

After 1-4 days of moderate-high doses, I begin to have extremely vivid, surreal (even psychedelic, if you will), intense and cinematic dreams at very early times in my sleep, say, after 4 hours. I usually have these naturally if I sleep in for 11-14 hours, but normal sleep usually yields shorter disjointed fragments of a much more mundane nature. These are also remarkable in their length of continuous duration, and in that I'm much more aware of myself—not aware that I'm dreaming (perhaps 'subconsciously,' as I don't react to extreme situations as I normally would), but with more of my executive functions intact, able to think and analyze.

I can remember a few moments of spontaneous lucidity over the past week, but not due to my efforts. This seems like it would be very beneficial to lucid dream work, giving me the opportunity to notice that I'm in a dream. And perhaps lengthening the amount of time I would be able to sustain lucidity.

I'm curious to see if this effect will go away once I start taking piracetam more regularly.

[Moonbeam]

Phreak, I've been using supplements for lucid dreaming for quite a while and have several combos that work. A nicotine patch added to any of them enhances quite a bit. There are a lot of things to try, but these are the ones that have worked best for me.

The acetylcholine pathway: galantamine and alpha gpc. (Crazy fun dreams, lots of sex). I add pyroglutamic acid now to help with tolerance (really helps a lot, and cause lucidity on its own.)

The monoamine pathway: selegeline and something like PEA or pseudoephedrine or phenylephrine. (very high-level thinking, very realistic).

Recently I've had a lot of luck with going into caffeine withdrawal by skipping most of it during the day, and then taking some caffeine in pill form when I wake up at night. Really nice high-level dreams. (28 lucids in October,mostly with that method.) This has become my favorite method lately, because of the lack of tolerance.

Theanine can help with insomni (I take 400 mg). Both propanolol and desmopressin can enhance recall; I've noticed more effect with the latter.

Good luck! It's great fun, and the supps can really add to your chance of success and to the length and quality of the dreams.

Edited by Moonbeam, 26 November 2009 - 06:23 PM.

[Bluejay1]

Its hard for me to see the real value of lucid dreaming. Perhaps if you are a scientist and you are trying for a lucid dream where you are discovering the cure to cancer/etc in your lab... now that would be useful. But dreams of little dwarf creatures running around is rather useless IMO

[chrono]

Its hard for me to see the real value of lucid dreaming. Perhaps if you are a scientist and you are trying for a lucid dream where you are discovering the cure to cancer/etc in your lab... now that would be useful. But dreams of little dwarf creatures running around is rather useless IMO

I guess this comes down to whether experience has to be useful—that is, serving ends other than itself—to have value? I think enjoying their experience of awareness is a goal most people find useful.

[Bluejay1]

Sure and I guess some ppl value tripping on LSD for similar reasons as well. Doesn't mean I have to value it.

Its hard for me to see the real value of lucid dreaming. Perhaps if you are a scientist and you are trying for a lucid dream where you are discovering the cure to cancer/etc in your lab... now that would be useful. But dreams of little dwarf creatures running around is rather useless IMO

I guess this comes down to whether experience has to be useful—that is, serving ends other than itself—to have value? I think enjoying their experience of awareness is a goal most people find useful.

[Moonbeam]

Its hard for me to see the real value of lucid dreaming. Perhaps if you are a scientist and you are trying for a lucid dream where you are discovering the cure to cancer/etc in your lab... now that would be useful. But dreams of little dwarf creatures running around is rather useless IMO

Lol, I doubt anybody is going to discover a cure for cancer in a dream, but why do you think lucid dreams are of "little dwarf creatures running around"? I do lots of things, but mostly the three F's--two of those are flying and food, you can guess the other one. When you get good at it, things are very realistic, hyper-real even; it's amazing and addictive. You can do things you could never do IRL.

Even if it's purely for entertainment purposes, it's worth it. You're not doing anything better while you're sleeping, are you?

[Bluejay1]

Well my lucid dreams consist of dwarf thingies trying to stab people with bloody spears while myself as well as others are simply trying to get away. Not very fun or enlightening.. None of the 3 F's involved either.. just simply things trying to chase after and eat ppl. They feel like real life except physical pain isnt felt too so even more pointless I suppose.

Its hard for me to see the real value of lucid dreaming. Perhaps if you are a scientist and you are trying for a lucid dream where you are discovering the cure to cancer/etc in your lab... now that would be useful. But dreams of little dwarf creatures running around is rather useless IMO

Lol, I doubt anybody is going to discover a cure for cancer in a dream, but why do you think lucid dreams are of "little dwarf creatures running around"? I do lots of things, but mostly the three F's--two of those are flying and food, you can guess the other one. When you get good at it, things are very realistic, hyper-real even; it's amazing and addictive. You can do things you could never do IRL.

Even if it's purely for entertainment purposes, it's worth it. You're not doing anything better while you're sleeping, are you?

[Moonbeam]

That's a bummer.

[SpawnMoreOverlords]

Don't wanna bump a fairly old thread. But... Has anyone tried dying in a lucid dream ? Once I became aware of my dream(ie it started to become lucid) where I was walking on the roof of the building I used to live in.... it was extremely realistic as I've been on that roof, in the exactly same spot in real life(10 stories). Anyway I jumped and the experience of falling felt almost-real life like, and I forced myself to wake up just before hitting the ground, screaming. It felt like If I die in lucid dream I will die in real life -_-;; ... This was all 10+ years ago when I was in my early teens and becoming aware of yourself in dreams used to be fairly common, doesn't happen anymore sadly.

Also after taking a month long break from all the supps and starting with just piracetam made my dreams completely epic for 2 nights in a row. Like being in a movie with a plot. Long continous storyline, many conversations with people, experiencing real life feelings, eventually a grandiose conclusion... Subjectively it felt like it was 1 big adventure dream for 6+ hours straight. (even though it should be impossible due to REM cycles?)

Edited by Pwnz0r, 08 January 2010 - 06:57 PM.

[babcock]

This is the first time I have ever heard of lucid dreams and from the OP's description I have them quite frequently without any supplementation. I usually find I have control over my dreams when I sleep in on the weekends and will be dreaming in the mid morning hours say 6am-9am. If I am still REMing at this point I generally feel "conscious" in my dreams and am able to control what my "avatar" does. Usually I have no control over my surroundings and it seems that my brain will often change the characters involved or the setting sometimes really freaking me out and causing me to wake up as my body will start to panic. This happens frequently to me when I have repetitive dreams.

When I was between the ages of 10 - 18 I would always have a repetitive dream where I was Robin Hood (a hero for me from childhood). I never "actively" picked to be robin hood but my brain always seemed to set the stage with me as main character and once in that setting I was in control of what my "Avatar" did. I ordered Piracetem, CDP Choline and another noot last night and will be receiving them next week. I'll try to update this thread with any neat dream experiences I may have but I found it interesting that people having "control" in their dreams was not something that was normal. Thanks for digging up the thread Pwnz0r.

P.S. Usually now I experience lucid dreams around 9-10 hours of sleep. Which is more than my norm (6 hours).

Edited by babcock, 08 January 2010 - 08:29 PM.

[magellan]

marginal success with large doses of piracetam
lucidity and OOBE when combined with binaural/isochromic beats

[waldemar]

Well my lucid dreams consist of dwarf thingies trying to stab people with bloody spears while myself as well as others are simply trying to get away. Not very fun or enlightening.. None of the 3 F's involved either..

Maybe "fleeing" counts as one of the 3 Fs. ;-)

[Young Paul]

i used to have lots with my little device, basically two red leds glued to a pair of solarium goggles connected to a timer to go on every 90 mins for 5 mins, and it worked well. then I bought a rem detector mask from Poland and that was cool too, but very difficult to program.
lucid dreaming using self hypnosis and binaural beats

Edited by Young Paul, 30 January 2011 - 02:24 AM.

[longevitynow]

Right, just to give a heads up I take a daily Nootropic stack - split between the morning (8am) and afternoon (2pm) consisting of:

Alpha-Lipoic Acid (2 x 150mg)
L-Dopa (1 x 250mg - maybe once a week alongside Green Tea extract)[/b]

I also have chronic insomnia

I don't know if this is your case, but Ray Sahelian mentions the potential for insomnia with doses of ALA of over 50 mg.

Stephen

I like Ray Sahelian a lot but he is so sensitive to all supplements that he often recommends extremely low doses to people. That being said, I do prefer to take my ALA earlier in the day as it may produce insomnia. In fact, most of my more stimulating nootropics I am very cautious with in the afternoon/evening. That being said, I will often take a small dose of piracetam between 6pm and midnight (dose and time vary) and that really enhances my dream recall.

[xEva]

I'm surprised no one mentioned LDN yet. Vivid dreams are its known side effect (at least in the beginning). Stronger when combined with melatonin.