66 replies to this topic

[hamishm00]

Why not take N-acetyl L-Carnosine

Quoting PA Wafker:

Introduction and relationship to L-carnosine

"The acetylation of carnosine should make it both quicker and easier to digest (as with most amino acids) and resistant to cleavage of its dipeptide into its consituent amino acids, beta-alanine and L-histidine, by the plasma and cellular carnosinase enzymesR. This allows NALC to be distributed through the body and interact as carnosine before it is is cleaved and deactivated (although there is also evidence that its component amino acids are also beneficial). Since NALC is thus effectively a timed-release form of carnosineR, this review will also include many of the benefits of carnosine, but not its constituent amino acids, which are more effeciently obtained by taking them or carnosine rather than NALC.

Safety, Interactions and Bioavailability

NALC is found as a product of carnosine systhesis in mammalian cardiac and skeletal musclesR and brainR. NALC has been administered to horses by naso-gastric tube at 70 mg/kg body weight with no negative side effectsR. This same study found that intravenous administration of NALC (at 20 mg/kg body weight) raised serum levels; naso-gastric administration did not. The reason for this is unknown, but since horses have a far different digestive system than humans (they also have no serum carnosinase enzyme) and acetylated amino acids are generally as well or better absorbed than their non-acetylated forms, this result does not imply that NALC will not be absorbed from the GI tract by humans. Still, bioavailability results for NALC in humans is currently unproven and needed."

http://morelife.org/...ments/NALC.html

[Blue]

The question is why the body had created a very efficient system for breaking down food and blood carnosine very quickly? If carnosine itself was good then it would be disadvantageous to waste gene space and material and energy on creating these breakdown enzymes. So I suspect that either carnosine itself is dangerous or at best cannot be utilized itself before broken down to beta-alanine.

Edited by Blue, 03 November 2009 - 03:54 PM.

[niner]

The question is why the body had created a very efficient system for breaking down food and blood carnosine very quickly? If carnosine itself was good then it would be disadvantageous to waste gene space and material and energy on creating these breakdown enzymes. So I suspect that either carnosine itself is dangerous or at best cannot be utilized itself before broken down to beta-alanine.

Perhaps an overdose of carnosine from a very high meat diet is bad, and carnosinase is there to keep the levels from getting too high. It's probably more of a homeostasis mechanism that was useful for homo erectus. I don't think it can be said that carnosine is dangerous, at least not in the quantities that we are taking. (1g/d, in my case)

[VespeneGas]

Perhaps an overdose of carnosine from a very high meat diet is bad, and carnosinase is there to keep the levels from getting too high. It's probably more of a homeostasis mechanism that was useful for homo erectus. I don't think it can be said that carnosine is dangerous, at least not in the quantities that we are taking. (1g/d, in my case)

Or perhaps high blood carnosine levels are bad, but high tissue levels (e.g. in brain or muscle) are really good. Then carnosinase would make sense, cleaving it into its component amino acids in the bloodstream, which can then be taken up into said tissues and resynthesized into the dipeptide.

Not sure what to make of this one:

Life Sci. 2004 Jul 30;75(11):1379-89.


Anti-crosslinking properties of carnosine: significance of histidine.

Hobart LJ, Seibel I, Yeargans GS, Seidler NW.

Department of Biochemistry, University of Health Sciences, 1750 Independence Avenue, Kansas City, MO 64106-1453, USA.

Carnosine, a histidine-containing dipeptide, is a potential treatment for Alzheimer's disease. There is evidence that carnosine prevents oxidation and glycation, both of which contribute to the crosslinking of proteins; and protein crosslinking promotes beta-amyloid plaque formation. It was previously shown that carnosine has anti-crosslinking activity, but it is not known which of the chemical constituents are responsible. We tested the individual amino acids in carnosine (beta-alanine, histidine) as well as modified forms of histidine (alpha-acetyl-histidine, 1-methyl-histidine) and methylated carnosine (anserine) using glycation-induced crosslinking of cytosolic aspartate aminotransferase as our model. beta-Alanine showed anti-crosslinking activity but less than that of carnosine, suggesting that the beta-amino group is required in preventing protein crosslinking. Interestingly, histidine, which has both alpha-amino and imidazolium groups, was more effective than carnosine. Acetylation of histidine's alpha-amino group or methylation of its imidazolium group abolished anti-crosslinking activity. Furthermore, methylation of carnosine's imidazolium group decreased its anti-crosslinking activity. The results suggest that histidine is the representative structure for an anti-crosslinking agent, containing the necessary functional groups for optimal protection against crosslinking agents. We propose that the imidazolium group of histidine or carnosine may stabilize adducts formed at the primary amino group.

PMID: 15234195 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[eason]

According to the initial carnosine lifespan study, beta-alanine & histidine supplementation was not effective.

[eason]

It is known that carnosine is metabolized into beta-alanine and L-histidine and as they are both biologically active molecules, they could have played some role in the anti-senescence effect of carnosine in SAM. However, according to data obtained in our experiments we observed no effect of these compounds on the mean lifespan when animals were treated with the mixture of beta-alanine and L-histidine, taken in the same molar proportion as they are in carnosine (figure). This treatment also had no influence on the exterior of the animals, unlike the effect carnosine produced. Analysis of these data shows that carnosine acts as a true antioxidant protector rather than as an anabolic drug; the weight of the animals treated with carnosine was not significantly different from that of the control animals (table).

[niner]

It is known that carnosine is metabolized into beta-alanine and L-histidine and as they are both biologically active molecules, they could have played some role in the anti-senescence effect of carnosine in SAM. However, according to data obtained in our experiments we observed no effect of these compounds on the mean lifespan when animals were treated with the mixture of beta-alanine and L-histidine, taken in the same molar proportion as they are in carnosine (figure). This treatment also had no influence on the exterior of the animals, unlike the effect carnosine produced. Analysis of these data shows that carnosine acts as a true antioxidant protector rather than as an anabolic drug; the weight of the animals treated with carnosine was not significantly different from that of the control animals (table).

This is a nice piece of evidence, or might be, depending on the source. In the in vitro study that progressive posted, histidine was more effective than carnosine in preventing glycation-induced crosslinking than was carnosine. In vivo, the opposite appears to hold true. I'll speculate that there is some sort of homeostatic mechanism that holds down histidine concentrations in vivo, but don't really know one way or the other. Eason, what is the source of this quote?

[eason]

http://protein.bio.m...l/65071018.html

This was the original Russian lifespan study.

LEF.org:

A new Russian study tested the effect of carnosine on life span and indicators of senescence in senescence-accelerated mice (Yuneva MO et al., 1999; Boldyrev AA et al., 1999). Half the mice were given carnosine in their drinking water starting at two months of age. Carnosine extended the life span of the treated mice by 20% on average, compared to the mice not fed carnosine.

[VespeneGas]

Do mice have serum carnosinase like we do? If so, this finding is very confusing, since ingested carnosine would be rapidly hydrolyzed into its component aminos.

[zorba990]

Do mice have serum carnosinase like we do? If so, this finding is very confusing, since ingested carnosine would be rapidly hydrolyzed into its component aminos.

Yes, varying degrees.
http://www.springerl...372007105608q1/

[TheFountain]

Interesting that more people seem to think Beta-Alanine is more effective than L-carnosine. But does the poll specify what we are voting for in terms of the relative effectiveness of these supplements? Glycation or anabolism? The poll results would be confusing without this detail.

[tunt01]

Interesting that more people seem to think Beta-Alanine is more effective than L-carnosine. But does the poll specify what we are voting for in terms of the relative effectiveness of these supplements? Glycation or anabolism? The poll results would be confusing without this detail.

probably cost-effective related decision. cheaper to buy beta-alanine

[niner]

Interesting that more people seem to think Beta-Alanine is more effective than L-carnosine. But does the poll specify what we are voting for in terms of the relative effectiveness of these supplements? Glycation or anabolism? The poll results would be confusing without this detail.

probably cost-effective related decision. cheaper to buy beta-alanine

It would be even cheaper to buy, i dunno, oatmeal. Is beta alanine in any way equivalent in effect to carnosine? Part of this thread concerns the supposed taurine depleting effects of beta alanine, but then that seems to have gotten turned into a reason to avoid carnosine (a bogus argument in my view, see my post somewhere upthread.) Finally, that confusion seems to have entered into the set of arguments in favor of beta alanine over carnosine. I'll grant that carnosine is expensive. It's right up there with pycnogenol as my most wallet-unfriendly supplements. (Not counting prescription drugs, which make these things look dirt cheap.)

I wouldn't put that much stock in the poll. A lot of responses were entered before all the arguments were posted, and you don't know who voted in it or how beers they'd had at the time.

[EmbraceUnity]

It would be even cheaper to buy, i dunno, oatmeal.

I think you're confusing it with beta glucan. Beta alanine isn't naturally acquired exogenously, but it is produced in your body from other methods. Carnosine can be acquired through animal products, though supplements are the best way to acquire both.

[niner]

It would be even cheaper to buy, i dunno, oatmeal.

I think you're confusing it with beta glucan. Beta alanine isn't naturally acquired exogenously, but it is produced in your body from other methods. Carnosine can be acquired through animal products, though supplements are the best way to acquire both.

I just meant "It would be even cheaper to buy [something cheap]", where oatmeal was just the first thing that popped into my head as a cheap substance. This was a very roundabout way of saying that cost didn't really matter if the two compounds weren't reasonably comparable.

[krillin]

As mentioned above by Eason, carnosine worked in mice, while beta-alanine and L-histidine did not (PMID: 10951107). The same was true in flies (PMID: 12447464), but who knows if they can even make carnosine out of its components? Here is a human study of 500 mg carnosine TID in Parkinson's patients. The neurological and other improvements have allayed my concerns about effects on taurine and copper. Full text.

Rejuvenation Res. 2008 Aug;11(4):821-7.
Carnosine [corrected] increases efficiency of DOPA therapy of Parkinson's disease: a pilot study.
Boldyrev A, Fedorova T, Stepanova M, Dobrotvorskaya I, Kozlova E, Boldanova N, Bagyeva G, Ivanova-Smolenskaya I, Illarioshkin S.
Research Center of Neurology, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow, Russia. aaboldyrev@mail.ru
Erratum in:
* Rejuvenation Res. 2008 Oct;11(5):988.

Abstract

The addition of the neuropeptide carnosine (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) as a food additive to the basic protocol of Parkinson's disease treatment results in significant improvement of neurological symptoms, along with increase in red blood cell Cu/Zn-SOD and decrease in blood plasma protein carbonyls and lipid hydroperoxides, with no noticeable change in platelets MAO B activity. The combination of carnosine with basic therapy may be a useful way to increase efficiency of PD treatment.

PMID: 18729814

[Sillewater]

Could carnosine increase IGF-1?

Anti-aging Effect of Carnosine and T_3,T_4 and IGF-Ⅰ Level in Serum of Mice

LV Jin-fang,ZHANG Qin,NING Kang-jian,et al.Anhui Science and Technology University,Fengyang,Anhui 233100,China

Objective To observe the effects of carnosine on anti-aging and T3,T4,IGF-Ⅰ level in the serum of mice.Methods Seventy-two mice were randomly divided into four groups,eighteen in each,the control,the aging mice model,vitamin E group and the carnosine group(mice were treated with carnosine through drinking water).The aging mice model was induced by D-galactose.T3,T4 and IGF-Ⅰlevel in the serum of mice were determined by RIA on the second and fourth weekend.Spontaneous activity index(frequency of spontaneous activity,standing time of spontaneous activity)and tolerance index(anti-fatigue,hypoxia tolerance)of mice were determined on the fourth weekend.Results The frequency of spontaneous activity of carnosine group was the highest than the other groups(P0.05).Standing time of spontaneous activity of carnosine group was significantly higher than that of aging mice model(P0.05).Anti-fatigue time in the carnosine group was almost the same as that in the control.The difference among the groups was not significant as for hypoxia tolerance time(P0.05).T4/T3 ratio of carnosine group was the lowest and the highest on the second and fourth weekend respectively,but the difference among groups was not significant(P0.05).IGF-Ⅰlevel in the serum in carnosine group increased significantly(P0.01).Conclusion Carnosine can increase ability of spontaneous activity of aging mice model and can keep IGF-Ⅰ in a higher level in the serum,these effects are considered to be related to anti-aging function

It's in Chinese so I can't access it.

[Guacamolium]

Beta alanine - no questions about it. I happen to supplement with taurine as well, so that issue isn't really an issue for me. I already sourced this issue like crazy two months ago.

[pycnogenol]

Beta alanine - no questions about it. I happen to supplement with taurine as well, so that issue isn't really an issue for me. I already sourced this issue like crazy two months ago.

Hi somethingtoxic,


I'm thinking about adding beta-alanine to my regimen. Question: how much do you take daily, what brand are you using and do you have any side effects? Thanks a lot.

(I also take Taurine 1,000 mg daily on an empty stomach)

Edited by pycnogenol, 14 September 2010 - 10:53 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Beta alanine - no questions about it. I happen to supplement with taurine as well, so that issue isn't really an issue for me. I already sourced this issue like crazy two months ago.

Hi somethingtoxic,


I'm thinking about adding beta-alanine to my regimen. Question: how much do you take daily, what brand are you using and do you have any side effects? Thanks a lot.

(I also take Taurine 1,000 mg daily on an empty stomach)

Hi pycnogenol,

I usually take around 5-6 grams total throughout the day, typically 2 grams or so per dose. I started with 1fast's brand, but now I shifted to Nutraplanet's brand. Both work the same it seems.

Side effects include the (IMO awesome) flushing of the skin and also mild stomach cramps which can be avoided by taking it with a meal.

They sell 100 grams for cheap in case you don't want to shell out tons of money for something you don't know will work for you.

[triplecrown]

So if you supplement with 500mg/day of carnosine, how much taurine should you take?

Edited by triplecrown, 12 October 2010 - 07:58 AM.

[zorba990]

Why not take N-acetyl L-Carnosine

Quoting PA Wafker:

Introduction and relationship to L-carnosine

"The acetylation of carnosine should make it both quicker and easier to digest (as with most amino acids) and resistant to cleavage of its dipeptide into its consituent amino acids, beta-alanine and L-histidine, by the plasma and cellular carnosinase enzymesR. This allows NALC to be distributed through the body and interact as carnosine before it is is cleaved and deactivated (although there is also evidence that its component amino acids are also beneficial). Since NALC is thus effectively a timed-release form of carnosineR, this review will also include many of the benefits of carnosine, but not its constituent amino acids, which are more effeciently obtained by taking them or carnosine rather than NALC.

Safety, Interactions and Bioavailability

NALC is found as a product of carnosine systhesis in mammalian cardiac and skeletal musclesR and brainR. NALC has been administered to horses by naso-gastric tube at 70 mg/kg body weight with no negative side effectsR. This same study found that intravenous administration of NALC (at 20 mg/kg body weight) raised serum levels; naso-gastric administration did not. The reason for this is unknown, but since horses have a far different digestive system than humans (they also have no serum carnosinase enzyme) and acetylated amino acids are generally as well or better absorbed than their non-acetylated forms, this result does not imply that NALC will not be absorbed from the GI tract by humans. Still, bioavailability results for NALC in humans is currently unproven and needed."

http://morelife.org/...ments/NALC.html

Bump. Currently taking BA and Taurine but interested in NALC as well given its efficacy with cataracts.

[niner]

So if you supplement with 500mg/day of carnosine, how much taurine should you take?

On the basis of calculations in this post, I would say that you probably don't need any supplemental taurine with carnosine if you get some in your diet. Taurine is cheap and useful in its own right, so there's no harm in taking it, though I don't think there is a significant depletion of it due to carnosine.

Edited by niner, 19 December 2010 - 05:29 AM.

[TheFountain]

I say there is no problem taking taurine with or without carnosine (but preferably with) as both help with glycation and would ostensibly have a greater unified effect than taking either/or. Plus taurine is very cheap, so it's a no brainer.

[JKDC]

P5P is supposed to be better than pyridoxamine for anti-glycation in a recent Life Extension issue I read. It looks to me that Carnosine has more value for life extension whereas BA is more for physical buffering of H+ although there is some evidence for other beneficial effects. I have not seen that BA can be converted into carnosine outside of muscle tissue and that may be because muscle lacks carnosinase so carnosine can build up over time. If there is evidence it can be converted in other tissues I would definitely consider switching to BA from carnosine since it is vastly cheaper. When I was perusing studies yesterday I also saw that carnosine benefited autism and can theoretically prevent Alzheimer's. Has anybody ran into anything that BA can be converted to carnosine in nerve tissue?

I found this but it is in rats.

J Neurochem. 1985 May;44(5):1459-64.

Carnosine synthesis in olfactory tissue during ontogeny: effect of exogenous beta-alanine.
Margolis FL, Grillo M, Kawano T, Farbman AI.

Abstract
Carnosine has now been demonstrated by chemical analysis to be present in rat olfactory mucosa on day 16 of gestation. The tissue content of this dipeptide then increases progressively during fetal and postnatal life. Radioactive carnosine can be isolated from cultured embryonic rat olfactory mucosa incubated with [14C]beta-alanine as early as 13-14 days of gestation. The amount of incorporation also increases progressively with the initial age of the explant and with time in culture indicating in vitro maturation of the carnosine synthesis capability of olfactory tissue. To test whether the level of beta-alanine was limiting the synthesis of carnosine, we evaluated the effect of elevated beta-alanine levels on tissue carnosine content. Exogenous beta-alanine caused an increase in the tissue content of carnosine at several ages in vivo and in vitro. In adult animals this increase was observed in olfactory bulb, olfactory mucosa, and skeletal muscle. However, there was no associated alteration in carnosine synthetase activity. In addition, the different half-lives of carnosine in olfactory tissue and muscle seemed unaltered, arguing against any effect on degradative enzymes. Thus, tissue carnosine levels are regulated, at least in part, by substrate availability. The early appearance of carnosine synthetic capacity during prenatal development indicates that this enzyme activity should be a valuable aid in studying early events in olfactory neuron maturation.

Edited by JKDC, 19 December 2010 - 11:52 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

P5P is supposed to be better than pyridoxamine for anti-glycation in a recent Life Extension issue I read.

Of course it is ...they had to stop selling pyridoxamine.

[Mike M]

http://www.smartpowd...oductCode=sp032

500g of BA for 16 bucks

http://www.smartpowd...=sp167&CartID=2

1000g of Taurine for 12 bucks (it's 30% off now)

http://www.smartpowd...=sp037&CartID=1

50g of carnosine for 17.50 (it's 30% off now)

Doing those sales through the end of the year, good time to try them out

[JKDC]

P5P is supposed to be better than pyridoxamine for anti-glycation in a recent Life Extension issue I read.

Of course it is ...they had to stop selling pyridoxamine.

It's not like there is no evidence at all to back it up.



Amino Acids. 2007 Nov;33(4):615-21. Epub 2007 Feb 16.

DNA damage during glycation of lysine by methylglyoxal: assessment of vitamins in preventing damage.
Suji G, Sivakami S.

Department of Life Sciences, University of Mumbai, Santacruz (E), Mumbai, India.

Abstract
Amino acids react with methylglyoxal to form advanced glycation end products. This reaction is known to produce free radicals. In this study, cleavage to plasmid DNA was induced by the glycation of lysine with methylglyoxal in the presence of iron(III). This system was found to produce superoxide as well as hydroxyl radicals. The abilities of various vitamins to prevent damage to plasmid DNA were evaluated. Pyridoxal-5-phosphate showed maximum protection, while pyridoxamine showed no protection. The protective abilities could be directly correlated to inhibition of production of hydroxyl and superoxide radicals. Pyridoxal-5-phosphate exhibited low radical scavenging ability as evaluated by its TEAC, but showed maximum protection probably by interfering in free radical production. Pyridoxamine did not inhibit free radical production. Thiamine and thiamine pyrophosphate, both showed protective effects albeit to different extents. Tetrahydrofolic acid showed better antioxidant activity than folic acid but was found to damage DNA by itself probably by superoxide generation.



Nephrol Dial Transplant. 2007 Aug;22(8):2165-74. Epub 2007 Apr 20.

Pyridoxal phosphate prevents progression of diabetic nephropathy.
Nakamura S, Li H, Adijiang A, Pischetsrieder M, Niwa T.

Department of Clinical Preventive Medicine, Nagoya University Hospital, 65 Tsurumai-cho, Showa-ku, Nagoya 466-8560, Japan.

Abstract
BACKGROUND: We have demonstrated that pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), an active form of vitamin B6, inhibits formation of advanced glycation end-products (AGEs) by trapping 3-deoxyglucosone. The present study aimed to clarify if PLP could exert beneficial effects on nephropathy in diabetic rats.

METHODS: Streptozotocin (STZ)-induced diabetic rats were treated by oral administration of PLP or pyridoxamine (PM), another active form of vitamin B6, at a dose of 600 mg/kg/day for 16 weeks. AGEs [imidazolone, N(epsilon)-(carboxymethyl)lysine (CML) and N(2)-carboxyethyl-2'-deoxyguanosine (CEdG)], transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1), type 1 collagen and fibronectin were detected in the kidneys using immunohistochemistry. Gene expression of TGF-beta1 and receptor for AGEs (RAGEs) in the kidneys was determined using real-time quantitative polymerase chain reaction.

RESULTS: Administration of PLP significantly inhibited albuminuria, glomerular hypertrophy, mesangial expansion, and interstitial fibrosis as compared with diabetic rats. PLP markedly inhibited accumulation of AGEs such as imidazolone, CML and CEdG, a DNA-linked AGE, in glomeruli. PLP significantly inhibited expression of TGF-beta1, type 1 collagen, fibronectin and RAGE in the kidneys. PLP was superior to PM in inhibiting accumulation of AGEs, expression of TGF-beta1, type 1 collagen, and fibronectin, and the development of diabetic nephropathy.

CONCLUSIONS: PLP prevented progression of nephropathy in STZ-induced diabetic rats by inhibiting formation of AGEs. PLP is considered a promising active form of vitamin B6 for the treatment of AGE-linked disorders such as diabetic nephropathy.




J Lipid Res. 2006 May;47(5):964-74. Epub 2006 Feb 9.

Aminophospholipid glycation and its inhibitor screening system: a new role of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate as the inhibitor.
Higuchi O, Nakagawa K, Tsuzuki T, Suzuki T, Oikawa S, Miyazawa T.

Food and Biodynamic Chemistry Laboratory, Graduate School of Agricultural Science, Tohoku University, Sendai, Japan.

Abstract
Peroxidized phospholipid-mediated cytotoxity is involved in the pathophysiology of a number of diseases [i.e., the abnormal increase of phosphatidylcholine hydroperoxide (PCOOH) found in the plasma of type 2 diabetic patients]. The PCOOH accumulation may relate to Amadori-glycated phosphatidylethanolamine (deoxy-D-fructosyl PE, or Amadori-PE), because Amadori-PE causes oxidative stress. However, lipid glycation inhibitor has not been discovered yet because of the lack of a lipid glycation model useful for inhibitor screening. We optimized and developed a lipid glycation model considering various reaction conditions (glucose concentration, temperature, buffer type, and pH) between PE and glucose. Using the developed model, various protein glycation inhibitors (aminoguanidine, pyridoxamine, and carnosine), antioxidants (ascorbic acid, alpha-tocopherol, quercetin, and rutin), and other food compounds (L-lysine, L-cysteine, pyridoxine, pyridoxal, and pyridoxal 5'-phosphate) were evaluated for their antiglycative properties. Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate and pyridoxal (vitamin B(6) derivatives) were the most effective antiglycative compounds. These pyridoxals could easily be condensed with PE before the glucose/PE reaction occurred. Because PE-pyridoxal 5'-phosphate adduct was detectable in human red blood cells and the increased plasma Amadori-PE concentration in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats was decreased by dietary supplementation of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate, it is likely that pyridoxal 5'-phosphate acts as a lipid glycation inhibitor in vivo, which possibly contributes to diabetes prevention.




Ophthalmic Res. 1996;28 Suppl 1:65-8.

Lens proteins changes induced by sugars and pyridoxal phosphate.
Ganea E, Harding JJ.

Institute of Biochemistry, Bucharest, Romania.

Abstract
Glucose, galactose and pyridoxal phosphate (PLP) bind to lens protein amino groups causing changes in absorbance and fluorescence spectra and inducing aggregation. Sugars and PLP simultaneously cause an increase in fluorophore and chromophore formation, but a decreased aggregation, compared to PLP alone. PLP binds to lens protein amino groups decreasing the sugar binding, but in preventing glycation by PLP attention should be paid to the consequences of its own binding to proteins in diabetes.

Edited by JKDC, 20 December 2010 - 10:19 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

P5P is supposed to be better than pyridoxamine for anti-glycation in a recent Life Extension issue I read.

Of course it is ...they had to stop selling pyridoxamine.

It's not like there is no evidence at all to back it up.

Not quite my point .... but yeah:

Once they realized they could no longer sell pyridoxamine, they started to pump P5P. While there is evidence to show that P5P works, there isn't a mountain of real evidence to show that it works better than pyridoxamine (and thus why LEF pushed pyridoxamine until they could no longer sell it). YOu have to take Life Extension magazine with a grain of salt. I am by no means saying they are full of crap, but they are in the business of making money and as a result will skew things to thier benefit.

[JKDC]

okay. Yeah that is true, but it is the same with all business it seems. I was taking PLP for several years before LE mentioned it.