40 replies to this topic

[brain]

I've noticed that if i take Ibuprofen on nights i know i won't sleep much, i wake up feeling much more refreshed. It also seems to have stimulatory effect in general with me. When i tried taking it several days through, these effects became less noticeable. So, unless this is a general effect, I'm guessing the benefit I'm getting is from reduced inflammation. As I'm 19 and don't have any joint pain or signs of inflammation that i can think of, I'm not sure what could account for this effect other than there is brain inflammation or other systematic inflammation thats reducing my cognitive function and mood. Actually, this is mostly related to energy and mood rather than "cognitive function", though the first to help to better the second. any ideas?

[tianyt]

I'm experiencing something very similar! For about 3 weeks now I've been taking one ibuprofen at bedtime , and sometimes one earlier in the day. The effect has been a very noticable and rapid, almost overnight, lifting of dysthymia that's been with me for about 20 years (I'm 34) despite ongoing antidepressant treatment. I have much more energy, feel lighter physically and mentally, more relaxed, and more fluid in thinking and feeling. I also feel somewhat more impulsive and expansive, and have definitely been able to get by on less sleep. Truly profound effects, potentially life changing if they last. For the first time in years my moments feel worth inhabiting.
I've considered the possibility that ibuprofen may be altering the metabolism of tianeptine, which I'm taking right now for depression, but I tend to agree with you that it's likely acting directly on some sort of inflammatory processes. There is a growing literature on depression as inflammation. A google or Pubmed search brings up some very interesting stuff. In the comments section to one article (link below) the author speculates that NSAIDs may help in depression.

It would be interesting to compare notes in more detail--regarding both effects and medical histories (though it sounds like you may not have much of one). We may be able to get a better clue about what's hapenning.

One additional comment: I normally have a high free bilirubin count (Gilbert's Syndrome), which is supposedly benign but associated with depression and fatigue. Wondering if this might play a role...

http://www.internati.../2/1/6/comments

I've noticed that if i take Ibuprofen on nights i know i won't sleep much, i wake up feeling much more refreshed. It also seems to have stimulatory effect in general with me. When i tried taking it several days through, these effects became less noticeable. So, unless this is a general effect, I'm guessing the benefit I'm getting is from reduced inflammation. As I'm 19 and don't have any joint pain or signs of inflammation that i can think of, I'm not sure what could account for this effect other than there is brain inflammation or other systematic inflammation thats reducing my cognitive function and mood. Actually, this is mostly related to energy and mood rather than "cognitive function", though the first to help to better the second. any ideas?

[edward]

There were some studies of NSAIDs in particular Ibuprophen potentially helping to prevent Alzheimer's, I think these were correlational though, based on analyzing patient records and finding that those taking ibuprophen were much less likely to develop Alzheimer's so no real experiment.

Now you experience, just a thought... Short term sleep deprivation, sleep disruption or modification has been shown to temporarily relieve symptoms of depression. Ibuprophen messes with sleep not enough to have you not sleep but it changes the structure of sleep cycles. So theoretically taking ibuprophen before bed may alter your sleep temporarily and produce a temporary antidepressant effect.

Another explanation is that you have some chronic pain that due to it being chronic you have habituated to actually feeling it. The anti-inflammatory and pain relief of the ibuprophen at night may have provided you body with some relief. Chronic pain very predictably causes mild to extreme depression.

[tianyt]

Yeah, the Alzheimer's study in the news is what convinced me to give ibuprofen another try. It's actually not the first time I've had strong anti-depressant/increased-energy effects from ibuprofen. The last time was maybe 3 years ago, and I was totally baffled by it. I was not sleeping very well with the ibuprofen, and in the end felt the exhaustion made it unsustainable. I was on prozac at the time and thought ib might be potentiating that, and maybe even causing intoxication. It didn't really occur to me that the main action might be anti-inflammatory (as it appears to be against Alzheimer's)

I've considered that sleep deprivation might be responsible for the mood elevation. It's definitely been true for me that ibuprofen has changed my sleep and made it harder to sleep, but I doubt sleep deprevation accounts for the effects. I've used sleep deprevation to manage my depression in the past, and while it makes me feel lighter and less down, it also makes me feel overly loose and unfocused, and not quite in control. The effect with ibuprofen has been quite different--a much greater feeling of solidity as well as openness. I I've also had a few nights when I slept long and well and woke up feeling just great.

The chronic pain hypothesis is interesting. I don't think I have any real pain... Sometimes a little bit of an achy feeling in my neck or head, and it does tend to come back when the ibuprofen wears off. I used to have some pretty severe heat-sensitivity, manifesting as pressure and tightness in my head/neck along with depression and fatigue, but that has improved considerably in the last couple of years. But I don't think it's the sensations per se that are causing depression (see the second part of the first linked article below). I just came upon these somewhat speculative articles on Hedweb that I think are really fascinating and seem spot on as far as what's happening in my case:
http://www.hedweb.co...depression.html
http://www.hedweb.co...on/fatigue.html
http://www.hedweb.co...rlton/sdtm.html

Another article in biopsychiatry.com sums up the research as of 2001:
http://biopsychiatry...stem/index.html

There seem to be multiple overlaps between NSAIDs and antidepressants, and links between depression and inflammation... It's really interesting, and seemingly quite underexplored.

[ikaros]

Prostaglandins have been known to inhibit neurotransmitter release. As ibuprofen inhibits COX which synthesizes PGs, it is plausible that it would in certain cases power neurotransmission.

[abefij]

Another explanation is that you have some chronic pain that due to it being chronic you have habituated to actually feeling it. The anti-inflammatory and pain relief of the ibuprophen at night may have provided you body with some relief. Chronic pain very predictably causes mild to extreme depression.

Those were my circumstances. I slept much better when taking Ibuprofen, so I took it each night for years, only to discover later that I have a chronic inflammatory disease. Unfortunately I can no longer take it. Although it helps me to sleep soundly it can end up causing more problems in the long run. If it helps you that much, there might be a good chance something else going on.

[Pittguy578]

I thought I was crazy, but I noticed the same thing by accident. I was depressed one day and took some ibuprofen for a headache. I noticed I felt much better in terms of mood. I am not sure what it does, but it definitely has a positive effect for some people.

[FunkOdyssey]

Not to be the bearer of bad news or anything but if ibuprofen makes a large difference in your mood it is likely because it was being depressed by inflammatory cytokines in the brain, which were probably there as a result of infection. This is especially true in the case of, for example, the person above that was plagued by dysthmia of unknown cause for 20 years.

Hmm, new chronic infection test? We'll call it the ibuprofen mood test. Take two and call your doctor in the morning.

[Pittguy578]

I have been placqued by dysthmia for most of my life. I am also on wellbutrin, but sometimes that does not work..that is when I take an advil..

[Pittguy578]

I am also on Wellbutrin. Is there any way to get rid of inflammatory cytokines if they were there as a result of infection? Or am I stuck with them?

[FunkOdyssey]

Yes -- Get alot of testing done. Kill whatever you come up positive for.

[FunkOdyssey]

The example of wellbutrin is interesting because I was on that for awhile as I attempted to treat my ADD, fatigue, and general apathy (didn't know I had Lyme yet). It worked amazingly well actually, the period of time I was on wellbutrin was the most productive in my life so far. However, after a few months I started to get all these weird unpleasant feelings in my head (combination of pressure / tingling), increasing anxiety, and sometimes problems swallowing and performing similar routine motor functions. Wellbutrin is well-documented to significantly lower TNF-a in the brain and I theorize that I was basically enjoying the same temporary anti-inflammatory relief (localized to the brain) that I might get from a steroid like prednisone. However, this would ultimately foster the progression of underlying infection and I think that is what happened.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 10 March 2009 - 03:24 PM.

[bran319]

I get the same mood and relaxation benefits from ibuprofen as you. I agree with Funk that it is likely we are in a state of excessive inflammation for whatever reason. I have found other anti-inflammatory supplements to be greatly beneficial in relieving my dysthmic moods. SAM-e is antiinflammatory and works very well for this purpose for myself.

Here's a study done showing the COX-2 inhibitor celecoxib significantly enhances the antidepressant response to reboxetine. So it seems it may not be all in our heads so to speak.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

The cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitor celecoxib has therapeutic effects in major depression: results of a double-blind, randomized, placebo controlled, add-on pilot study to reboxetine.
Müller N, Schwarz MJ, Dehning S, Douhe A, Cerovecki A, Goldstein-Müller B, Spellmann I, Hetzel G, Maino K, Kleindienst N, Möller HJ, Arolt V, Riedel M.

Hospital for Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität, München, Germany. norbert.mueller@med.uni-muenchen.de

Signs of an inflammatory process, in particular increased pro-inflammatory cytokines and increased levels of prostaglandine E(2) (PGE(2)), have repeatedly been described in major depression (MD). As cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) inhibitors inhibit the PGE(2) production and the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines, we performed a therapeutic trial with the COX-2 inhibitor celecoxib. In a prospective, double-blind, add-on study, 40 patients suffering from an acute depressive episode were randomly assigned to either reboxetine and celecoxib or to reboxetine plus placebo. After a wash-out period, 20 patients received 4-10 mg reboxetine plus placebo and 20 received reboxetine plus 400 mg celecoxib for 6 weeks. The treatment effect was calculated by analysis of variance. There were no significant differences between groups in age, sex, duration or severity of disease or psychopathology, or reboxetine dose or plasma levels. Over 6 weeks, both groups of patients showed significant improvement in scores of the Hamilton Depression Scale. However, the celecoxib group showed significantly greater improvement compared to the reboxetine-alone group. Additional treatment with celecoxib has significant positive effects on the therapeutic action of reboxetine with regard to depressive symptomatology. Moreover, the fact that treatment with an anti-inflammatory drug showed beneficial effects on MD indicates that inflammation is related to the pathomechanism of the disorder, although the exact mechanisms remain to become elucidated.

PMID: 16491133 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[FunkOdyssey]

If the question is what causes chronic inflammation, chronic infection has to be at the top of the list, although I will concede there are some other possibilities, like smoking + terrible diet + alcohol abuse + environmental factors as an example.

[Pittguy578]

I have noticed this effect as well-I thought I was crazy at first for thinking ibuprofen could help, but it does help my mood when I am down. I have no other known "physical" factors causing depresssion..I am healthy, take vitamins, don't smoke, etc

[Mr.Orange]

Long-Term Ibuprofen Treatment After Brain Injury Worsens Cognitive Outcome In An Animal Model
http://www.uphs.upen.../NSAIDbrain.htm

Ibuprofen May Cut Alzheimer's Risk
http://www.webmd.com...alzheimers-risk

 

Does not seem to be effective in tertiary prevention of mild-moderate Alzheimer's disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19448381

Edited by Mr.Orange, 15 May 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[mrnootropic]

Long-Term Ibuprofen Treatment After Brain Injury Worsens Cognitive Outcome In An Animal Model
http://www.uphs.upen.../NSAIDbrain.htm

Ibuprofen May Cut Alzheimer's Risk
http://www.webmd.com...alzheimers-risk

 

Does not seem to be effective in tertiary prevention of mild-moderate Alzheimer's disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19448381

 

You just revived a 6 year old thread haha..

 

Im glad you did though or i would never of seen this thread, what is weird though, is that last night i took 4 ibuprofen tablets and i got woke up early and i noticed i wasnt tired at all, like i normally would be..

 

Its either coincidence or ibuprofen made me feel less tired. I feel like ive had a refreshing sleep. Im going to experiement and take 4 more tonight.

Edited by Mr.Nootropic, 16 May 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[shp5]

Most NSAIDs improve my (often troubled) sleep, even 500mg acetaminophen/paracetamol. I also had frequently returning respiratory infections at the same time I started to sleep worse, though quite some other stuff that could be linked to my sleep issues happened at the time.

 

Finding a doctor literate in this stuff is probably less than easy.

 

maybe I should experiment with some aspirine in the evening, since I may benefit in other areas too. Let's see if there are any new ideas on how to mitigate negative side effects...

Edited by shp5, 16 May 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[Mr.Orange]

 

Long-Term Ibuprofen Treatment After Brain Injury Worsens Cognitive Outcome In An Animal Model
http://www.uphs.upen.../NSAIDbrain.htm

Ibuprofen May Cut Alzheimer's Risk
http://www.webmd.com...alzheimers-risk

 

Does not seem to be effective in tertiary prevention of mild-moderate Alzheimer's disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19448381

 

You just revived a 6 year old thread haha..

 

Im glad you did though or i would never of seen this thread, what is weird though, is that last night i took 4 ibuprofen tablets and i got woke up early and i noticed i wasnt tired at all, like i normally would be..

 

Its either coincidence or ibuprofen made me feel less tired. I feel like ive had a refreshing sleep. Im going to experiement and take 4 more tonight.

 

 

The last post is only 4 years old

Maybe it's mostly just the painkilling effect that is making you feel like that... I mean, I think there's a chronic "low dose" pain we all feel all the time and if that's being lifted from us, or lets say, if the heaviness of life is lifted from us (because we don't feel it any more), it might make us feel stronger and therefore also "less tired".

[mrnootropic]

The last post is only 4 years old

Maybe it's mostly just the painkilling effect that is making you feel like that... I mean, I think there's a chronic "low dose" pain we all feel all the time and if that's being lifted from us, or lets say, if the heaviness of life is lifted from us (because we don't feel it any more), it might make us feel stronger and therefore also "less tired".

 

 

Yeah you could be right. It could be due to the Anti-Inflammatory effects, all of us could be experiencing inflammation without realizing and the ibuprofen is helping and makes us feel less tired etc.

[Mr.Orange]

That too, maybe, but the painkilling effect itself (the one usually intended to be caused by it) is not working by being anti-inflammatory, or is it?

 

Update: I've just read that Ibuprofen raises the blood pressure. That alone could be it I guess

Edited by Mr.Orange, 16 May 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[chemicalambrosia]

Most NSAIDs improve my (often troubled) sleep, even 500mg acetaminophen/paracetamol. I also had frequently returning respiratory infections at the same time I started to sleep worse, though quite some other stuff that could be linked to my sleep issues happened at the time.

 

Finding a doctor literate in this stuff is probably less than easy.

 

maybe I should experiment with some aspirine in the evening, since I may benefit in other areas too. Let's see if there are any new ideas on how to mitigate negative side effects...

 

What kind of respiratory problems are you having? You might want to look into allergies as a root cause. I've been respiratory/sinus problems for some time and I think dust mites and other allergens are the root cause.

[Jim Morrison]

I believe the anti-inflammatory effects of Ibuprofen will only manifest after use of high doses (3x 600-800mg a day) for about a week. I bet the reason for feeling more refreshed/alert and/or sleeping better is because of the relief from pain (the reason the drug has been taken in the first place).

Edited by Jim Morrison, 21 May 2014 - 01:20 PM.

[medievil]

NSAIDS increase endogenious cannabinoids, paracetamol does too and should be synergetic, ssris upregulate CB1 possibly you need something that upregulates it to be able to notice ibuprofen.

[Blackkzeus]

I took ibuprofen yesterday, an anti-inflammatory because I suspected my brain fog, anxiety and depression may have bee caused by brain inflammation. After taking Ibuprofen my brain fog dissipated. I felt a mental clarity that I have not felt in years. My mood and verbal fluency increased and for the first time in years I didn't struggle with word recall. My creativity, long term memory, and  ability to reason also improved. I began to remember things from years ago that I long forgot about.  Based off my reaction to the ibuprofen I can confidently say I think  my brain fog is caused by inflammation. I'm ecstatic about this because I'm finally aware of the culprit for my mental woes and can finally start to recover. 

 

Here's a link related to brain inflammation and depression: http://www.preventio...-and-depression

 

[FunkOdyssey]

If the question is what causes chronic inflammation, chronic infection has to be at the top of the list, although I will concede there are some other possibilities, like smoking + terrible diet + alcohol abuse + environmental factors as an example.

 

This guy sounds pretty sure of himself doesn't he?  Little did he know, there were a million other likely possibilities besides chronic infection.  Wish I could go back in time and slap myself out of that Lyme tunnel vision I had.

[Blackkzeus]

FunkOdyssey, I believe you've suffered from brain fog induced by inflammation, right? If so, what did you do to reduce the inflammation?

[FunkOdyssey]

FunkOdyssey, I believe you've suffered from brain fog induced by inflammation, right? If so, what did you do to reduce the inflammation?

 

I've had positive effects from ibuprofen too, but concluded it and other NSAID's (even COX-2 selective celecoxib) are not suitable for long-term use due to their negative effects on gut barrier function.  I've tried a million different things that are supposed to be anti-inflammatory in the brain.  Off the top of my head, the only ones that have seemed to be at least somewhat effective with tolerable side effects are low-dose escitalopram and Perika SJW.  Things like curcumin, minocycline, luteolin, NAC, lithium, and countless others were intolerable for various reasons or not obviously effective.  I wouldn't rule any of those out until you've personally tried them though.  I tend to be very sensitive and suffer annoying side effects from most things I experiment with.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 17 February 2015 - 12:03 AM.

[larsonfuda09]

 

FunkOdyssey, I believe you've suffered from brain fog induced by inflammation, right? If so, what did you do to reduce the inflammation?

 

I've had positive effects from ibuprofen too, but concluded it and other NSAID's (even COX-2 selective celecoxib) are not suitable for long-term use due to their negative effects on gut barrier function.  I've tried a million different things that are supposed to be anti-inflammatory in the brain.  Off the top of my head, the only ones that have seemed to be at least somewhat effective with tolerable side effects are low-dose escitalopram and Perika SJW.  Things like curcumin, minocycline, luteolin, NAC, lithium, and countless others were intolerable for various reasons or not obviously effective.  I wouldn't rule any of those out until you've personally tried them though.  I tend to be very sensitive and suffer annoying side effects from most things I experiment with., why

 

 

FunkOdyssey, why did you feel curcumin to be intolerable/ineffective?
 

[FunkOdyssey]

 

FunkOdyssey, why did you feel curcumin to be intolerable/ineffective?
 

 

Libido is affected very negatively by curcumin, worse than even higher dose SSRI in my experience.  It doesn't happen to everyone though.  Curcumin also aggravates my GERD issues.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 17 February 2015 - 12:37 AM.