108 replies to this topic

[The Dude]

I use piracetam at 4g daily/ 2g choline daily. It definitely seems to help me sleep better - normally I don't dream at all and I have to sleep for 12-ish hours. With Piracetam I feel rested on 8 hours which is pretty awesome. I'd love to try other racetams if there's a group buy opportunity. Why do the stronger racetams all cost so much? :(

[The Dude]

I use piracetam at 4g daily/ 2g choline daily. It definitely seems to help me sleep better - normally I don't dream at all and I have to sleep for 12-ish hours. With Piracetam I feel rested on 8 hours which is pretty awesome. I'd love to try other racetams if there's a group buy opportunity. Why do the stronger racetams all cost so much? :(

ps I realize piracetam != pramiracetam. The increased effects sound good.

[yowza]

I use piracetam at 4g daily/ 2g choline daily. It definitely seems to help me sleep better - normally I don't dream at all and I have to sleep for 12-ish hours. With Piracetam I feel rested on 8 hours which is pretty awesome. I'd love to try other racetams if there's a group buy opportunity. Why do the stronger racetams all cost so much? :(

ps I realize piracetam != pramiracetam. The increased effects sound good.

I haven't found anything on Pramiracetam but have found the following on Nefiracetam. Check out this quote I got via e-mail...

Nefiracetam is one of our hot selling products.Details as follows:

FOB China Price for 225 grams: USD170
FOB China Price for 450 grams: USD310
FOB China Price for 1 kg: USD620

Shipping cost to USA is USD50 within 1kg by courier. The more quantity, the most favourable will be the price, please kindly let me know the quantity you need by email, then I will give you an exact offer. Thank you.

Our payment terms: Western Union, Moneygram or T/T(Bank wire).

Delivery time: within 5 working days after receipt your payment.

Delivery terms: By Courier, door to door, you can get tracking number immediately after goods sent out, then you can check shipping details on line.

Should you have any other question, please don't hesitate to contact me. I will be glad to serve you.

Looking forward to your kind reply!

With that price, I'll probably just order it for myself unless someone is interested in a group buy...

Edited by yowza, 26 March 2009 - 12:05 AM.

[HenryHH]

I'm definitely interested; however, with the chemical being synthesized in China, how can we be sure that the powder itself is free of contaminants, etc.?

By the way -- I think I'll *finally* be taking the ampakine I ordered (CXM 716) for the first time tomorrow evening...

[yowza]

I'm definitely interested; however, with the chemical being synthesized in China, how can we be sure that the powder itself is free of contaminants, etc.?

The COA that the company provides helps ensure that the batch has been inspected and is free of contaminants.

According to the additional info. I have recieved, the company has a GMP Inspection Certificate.

Nefiracetam from what I heard offers a calm/stimulating sensation similar to some of the other racetams. Generally speaking it's supposed to stimulate both Gaba and Nicotine receptors to a certain degree to give the feel of a tranquil state of hieghtened alertness/memory. From what I've heard, the effect is noticeable fairly quickly.

By the way -- I think I'll *finally* be taking the ampakine I ordered (CXM 716) for the first time tomorrow evening...

Great! Hope to hear what you think of it. I also ordered some and am still waiting for it to arrive.

[drive_yugo]

I use piracetam at 4g daily/ 2g choline daily. It definitely seems to help me sleep better - normally I don't dream at all and I have to sleep for 12-ish hours. With Piracetam I feel rested on 8 hours which is pretty awesome. I'd love to try other racetams if there's a group buy opportunity. Why do the stronger racetams all cost so much? :(

ps I realize piracetam != pramiracetam. The increased effects sound good.

I haven't found anything on Pramiracetam but have found the following on Nefiracetam. Check out this quote I got via e-mail...

Nefiracetam is one of our hot selling products.Details as follows:

FOB China Price for 225 grams: USD170
FOB China Price for 450 grams: USD310
FOB China Price for 1 kg: USD620

Shipping cost to USA is USD50 within 1kg by courier. The more quantity, the most favourable will be the price, please kindly let me know the quantity you need by email, then I will give you an exact offer. Thank you.

Our payment terms: Western Union, Moneygram or T/T(Bank wire).

Delivery time: within 5 working days after receipt your payment.

Delivery terms: By Courier, door to door, you can get tracking number immediately after goods sent out, then you can check shipping details on line.

Should you have any other question, please don't hesitate to contact me. I will be glad to serve you.

Looking forward to your kind reply!

With that price, I'll probably just order it for myself unless someone is interested in a group buy...

Sounds pretty interesting... Can you post/PM more info re source.

[drive_yugo]

Why do the stronger racetams all cost so much? :(

I believe it's mainly because many - especially pramiracetam - are both fairly hard to synthesize and do not have an established market as pharmaceuticals (at least in the West). Hence, high cost + low supply.

[yowza]

Sounds pretty interesting... Can you post/PM more info re source.

Sure. I can pm those who are interested.

Why do the stronger racetams all cost so much? :(

I believe it's mainly because many - especially pramiracetam - are both fairly hard to synthesize and do not have an established market as pharmaceuticals (at least in the West). Hence, high cost + low supply.

They're not that bad if you can get a good bulk suppllier to send them to you. While the amount of money a bulk supplier asks for may seem like a lot, it often isn't when the amount that your getting is taken into account. Let's use the Nefiracetam price quote as an example:

For those of you that don't know 450 grams is about 1 pound. Also 1000 grams=1 kg.

This means that if 1 kg of Nefiracetam was ordered by 10 people:

1000/10=100 grams (for each of the 10 people)

$620/10=$62 (for 100 grams of Nefiracetam for each of the 10 people)

Now, it would be about $50 additional dollars for shipping to a single destination. Then their would be a U.S. shipping charge for the person that receives the shipment to ship out to each of the other 9 people for 100 grams of nefiracetam! All in all each of the 10 people probably wouldn't be paying any more than $80 for a large amount that would be alot less than if you were to buy this item on retail (which isn't possible at the moment anyway).

The above is just an example to give anyone whose interested, a little insight into the kind of money that can be saved when not buying everything from some retail company that's trying to stick you for extra dollars. While this is understandable from a retailer standpoint (need to turn a good profit), it's not the best route for a consumer standpoint beyond the obvious convenience factor of purchasing from them. However, besides just the price difference between retailer vs. supplier, the reason I'm interested in Nefiracetam is because it's very hard to find.

[jackinbox]

At more than $1.25 the 150mg pill, it cost 5$/day just to have the minimum effective dosage. I wonder why relentless improvement no longer sell it. They had pretty good price. Is it that hard to synthesize?

[drive_yugo]

At more than $1.25 the 150mg pill, it cost 5$/day just to have the minimum effective dosage. I wonder why relentless improvement no longer sell it. They had pretty good price. Is it that hard to synthesize?

How did you come up with $1.25 for 150mg? Are you talking about nefiracetam or something else?

I believe most online retailers pulled nefiracetam after a couple of papers came out based on one negative study.

[jackinbox]

At more than $1.25 the 150mg pill, it cost 5$/day just to have the minimum effective dosage. I wonder why relentless improvement no longer sell it. They had pretty good price. Is it that hard to synthesize?

How did you come up with $1.25 for 150mg? Are you talking about nefiracetam or something else?

I believe most online retailers pulled nefiracetam after a couple of papers came out based on one negative study.

I'm talking of pramiracetam. I have a small sample of nefiracetam but I didn't try much of it.

[yowza]

I believe I paid about $70-$80 for Pramiracetam but that was in 2007 I believe...

It was a 40 capsule bottle with 600 mg each for a total of 24 grams (all the capsules added together) or 24000 mg. Currently, www.antiaging-systems offers about a $50 price for Pramiracetam (I'd have to doublecheck on the quantity) from their website. There's also a bulk powder that can be ordered as well. I can get a bulk price quote for that too if anyone would like. I just went for the Nefiracetam since that's more rare and worth the hassle from what I hear.

[jackinbox]

I maintain a list of racetam prices:

http://isochroma.com.....am Prices.htm

International Anti-Aging sell pramiracetam too. It's the same stuff as Biogenensis at almost the same price. I wonder if both are connected.

[drive_yugo]

I believe I paid about $70-$80 for Pramiracetam but that was in 2007 I believe...

It was a 40 capsule bottle with 600 mg each for a total of 24 grams (all the capsules added together) or 24000 mg. Currently, www.antiaging-systems offers about a $50 price for Pramiracetam (I'd have to doublecheck on the quantity) from their website. There's also a bulk powder that can be ordered as well. I can get a bulk price quote for that too if anyone would like. I just went for the Nefiracetam since that's more rare and worth the hassle from what I hear.

I would be more interested in pramiracetam over nefiracetam at a decent price...

[drive_yugo]

I maintain a list of racetam prices:

http://isochroma.com.....am Prices.htm

International Anti-Aging sell pramiracetam too. It's the same stuff as Biogenensis at almost the same price. I wonder if both are connected.

I've been wondering too. Best guess is Biogenesis owns IAS. Have you tried their pramiracetam?

Btw, somebody should tell Isochroma that w/ the recent update to the list it is really skewing toward BN - a great supplier, but nonetheless.. Also, sadly Relentless said they will no longer carry phenylpiracetam (and don't), so - unless somebody has different info - it might be time to take them off the list.

[jackinbox]

I maintain a list of racetam prices:

http://isochroma.com.....am Prices.htm

International Anti-Aging sell pramiracetam too. It's the same stuff as Biogenensis at almost the same price. I wonder if both are connected.

I've been wondering too. Best guess is Biogenesis owns IAS. Have you tried their pramiracetam?

Btw, somebody should tell Isochroma that w/ the recent update to the list it is really skewing toward BN - a great supplier, but nonetheless.. Also, sadly Relentless said they will no longer carry phenylpiracetam (and don't), so - unless somebody has different info - it might be time to take them off the list.

I got my pramiracetam from IAS and my current order is from Biogenesis. What is nice is that it's not in gelule but they are solid tablets easy to recognize.

[yowza]

Hey everyone! I spent about an hour last week excited about possibly ordering a bulk shipment for everyone (for Nefiracetam)and even ended up typing up a detailed plan/policy (whatever you want to call it). It was a bit wordy and I definitely should've cut it down some (and possibly save myself 45 minutes out my day). As of now, unfortunately, I received a number of bills in the mail and stuff I have to pay for so I won't be able to do it at least for now.

When I originally posted that link to Nefiracetam, the main (original) purpose was to just show that someone could purchase a large amount for themselves on their own if they really wanted to. This applies to pram. as well (I haven't checked the bulk prices on this but something tells me it's cheaper than Nefiracetam).

As of now though, I've just recieved the CXM716 in the mail. If anyone's interested I can post if I feel any effect whatsoever.
I'll try it at some point as soon as I borrow a scale from someone to try and weigh out a quantity so I can give an accurate report if anyone's interested.

Edited by yowza, 31 March 2009 - 05:57 AM.

[HenryHH]

Hey everyone! I spent about an hour last week excited about possibly ordering a bulk shipment for everyone (for Nefiracetam)and even ended up typing up a detailed plan/policy (whatever you want to call it). It was a bit wordy and I definitely should've cut it down some (and possibly save myself 45 minutes out my day). As of now, unfortunately, I received a number of bills in the mail and stuff I have to pay for so I won't be able to do it at least for now.

When I originally posted that link to Nefiracetam, the main (original) purpose was to just show that someone could purchase a large amount for themselves on their own if they really wanted to. This applies to pram. as well (I haven't checked the bulk prices on this but something tells me it's cheaper than Nefiracetam).

As of now though, I've just recieved the CXM716 in the mail. If anyone's interested I can post if I feel any effect whatsoever.
I'll try it at some point as soon as I borrow a scale from someone to try and weigh out a quantity so I can give an accurate report if anyone's interested.

Please do try the CXM716 and post your experience. I have been so busy lately that I *still* haven't tried my the CXM716 I ordered myself, but since I have 2 tests next week, I will finally be trying it by the end of this week or this weekend.

I'll be very interested in reading about your own experience...

[yowza]

Please do try the CXM716 and post your experience. I have been so busy lately that I *still* haven't tried my the CXM716 I ordered myself, but since I have 2 tests next week, I will finally be trying it by the end of this week or this weekend.

I'll be very interested in reading about your own experience...

If you end up trying it this weekend, please post on this messageboard to let us know how it went for you.

Tomorrow, I'm going to try stopping at the pharmacy to see if there are any empty capsules there (I'm thinking this may maximize absorption). I'll check to see if they have any pocket scales there as well.

[drive_yugo]

Please do try the CXM716 and post your experience. I have been so busy lately that I *still* haven't tried my the CXM716 I ordered myself, but since I have 2 tests next week, I will finally be trying it by the end of this week or this weekend.

I'll be very interested in reading about your own experience...

If you end up trying it this weekend, please post on this messageboard to let us know how it went for you.

Tomorrow, I'm going to try stopping at the pharmacy to see if there are any empty capsules there (I'm thinking this may maximize absorption). I'll check to see if they have any pocket scales there as well.

Looking forward to hearing about your experience w/ 716!

[drive_yugo]

I maintain a list of racetam prices:

http://isochroma.com.....am Prices.htm

International Anti-Aging sell pramiracetam too. It's the same stuff as Biogenensis at almost the same price. I wonder if both are connected.

I've been wondering too. Best guess is Biogenesis owns IAS. Have you tried their pramiracetam?

Btw, somebody should tell Isochroma that w/ the recent update to the list it is really skewing toward BN - a great supplier, but nonetheless.. Also, sadly Relentless said they will no longer carry phenylpiracetam (and don't), so - unless somebody has different info - it might be time to take them off the list.

I got my pramiracetam from IAS and my current order is from Biogenesis. What is nice is that it's not in gelule but they are solid tablets easy to recognize.

Tablets are definitely better, but pramiracetam quality also seems to vary from source to source quite a bit - so I was wondering if you've notice any difference in pramiracetam effectiveness from Biogenesis/IAS/other sources?

[Guacamolium]

Post the experience(s) please. The Semax thread is driving me nuts too because the subjective reports are stymied.

[yowza]

Post the experience(s) please. The Semax thread is driving me nuts too because the subjective reports are stymied.

I know what you mean. I'll try and do my part by posting something this weekend. I've been trying to find a way to measure out an exact dosage but haven't had much luck in terms of finding a pocket scale nearby for a somewhat reasonable price. I may have to carefully estimate it out somehow (I'll have to start with very small amounts for this obviously)... Otherwise there's a scale at Cognative Nutrition that'll seem to do the job for me (it costs $40.00). I'll figure something out (hopefully soon). This weekend I'll probably just sample a very small amount and see if there's any effect.

When I get the Semax through the mail, there'll be no delay. Promise.

[yowza]

Hey everyone!

I'm going to paste part of an e-mail response that I gave to someone inquiring about the ampakine compound. This should give you an idea of where I'm at right now.

For the Ampakine compound. I'll probably have to just divide it and estimate an amount. I pm'd somebody on another messageboard (whose had both CX516 and CXM716 before) about the dosage amounts that they tried but they have yet to get back to me.

If the guy I e-mailed doesn't get back to me that's ok too. In order to measure proper dosages, I may order a scale that measures down to at least .1 (gram) increments (in other words this would mean that the scale would be able to detect down to increments of at least 100 mg). I know there are a number of scales like this that can be ordered from Steve's Cognative Nutrition site or for a number of other pocket scales that can be googled for other sites. However, I'm kind of hoping to find something that's even more precise down to .01 gram (or detects down to 10 mg). The problem with this is that most nutrition based scales that get to this precision (.01 g) are over $100 and most lab quality scales are instanely expensive (http://www.balances.com/acculab/acculab.html).

With this in mind, I'm thinking about getting a scale for measuring jewlery (that goes down to .01 g) since I've found some that are relatively inexpensive and maintain a high degree of precision. I'm planning on placing an order for a $14 scale that can be found at:
http://www.8starshop.com/en/200gx001g-digi...g-oz-gn-ct.html).

I'm not sure of the quality behind the $14 jewlery scale so hopefully you guys have some advice? I'm searching around right now at the moment to confirm whether I should order this or not (since at a .01 g precision it seems almost too good to be true).

[HenryHH]

yowza, I'm trying to circumvent the same problem as you: finding a cheap scale that will weigh milligrams. I've checked all the Rite-Aids and grocery stores in my vicinity, so I guess I'll have to either order one or keep looking...

[jackinbox]

Post the experience(s) please. The Semax thread is driving me nuts too because the subjective reports are stymied.

I know what you mean. I'll try and do my part by posting something this weekend. I've been trying to find a way to measure out an exact dosage but haven't had much luck in terms of finding a pocket scale nearby for a somewhat reasonable price. I may have to carefully estimate it out somehow (I'll have to start with very small amounts for this obviously)... Otherwise there's a scale at Cognative Nutrition that'll seem to do the job for me (it costs $40.00). I'll figure something out (hopefully soon). This weekend I'll probably just sample a very small amount and see if there's any effect.

When I get the Semax through the mail, there'll be no delay. Promise.

I never heard of Semax before. Like any stuff coming from Russia, there is not much info about it on the Net. What you know about it? Are you going to try it?

[yowza]

I never heard of Semax before. Like any stuff coming from Russia, there is not much info about it on the Net. What you know about it? Are you going to try it?

Yep. I placed an order a few weeks back so it should hopefully arrive this week. This is one of those "peptide" (the nuerotransmitters that we often don't hear about) type nootropics. A great link to some information about this can be found here (along with some other places):
http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=28170

yowza, I'm trying to circumvent the same problem as you: finding a cheap scale that will weigh milligrams. I've checked all the Rite-Aids and grocery stores in my vicinity, so I guess I'll have to either order one or keep looking...

I've placed an order for a pocket scale (not the big expensive $2000 ones used at laboratories) that measures down to .001g
(or 1mg) for $14.00. I found it here:
http://okpocketscale...products_id=463

This should be of some help. There are also empty gel caps that the powder can be placed into.

[Guacamolium]

I never heard of Semax before. Like any stuff coming from Russia, there is not much info about it on the Net. What you know about it? Are you going to try it?

Yep. I placed an order a few weeks back so it should hopefully arrive this week. This is one of those "peptide" (the nuerotransmitters that we often don't hear about) type nootropics. A great link to some information about this can be found here (along with some other places):
http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=28170

yowza, I'm trying to circumvent the same problem as you: finding a cheap scale that will weigh milligrams. I've checked all the Rite-Aids and grocery stores in my vicinity, so I guess I'll have to either order one or keep looking...

I've placed an order for a pocket scale (not the big expensive $2000 ones used at laboratories) that measures down to .001g
(or 1mg) for $14.00. I found it here:
http://okpocketscale...products_id=463

This should be of some help. There are also empty gel caps that the powder can be placed into.

Yeah, that scale will be fine for something at that dosage. There's a liquid way to measure compounds too. You just have to find the solubility of the compound and go from there. =)

[yowza]

Yeah, that scale will be fine for something at that dosage. There's a liquid way to measure compounds too. You just have to find the solubility of the compound and go from there. =)

I just got the scale in the mail today and will fiddle around with it to see if it's properly calibrated.

As for the liquid way of measuring, it's interesting for sure. I've read about other people using this method but haven't really tried it myself. It appears that the only materials that would be needed are a test tube, your substance to be measured, and a solution (the right type and ph for your substance to dissolve in).
A) From my understanding (which is very limited for liquid dosing), it would appear that you'd:
1) Know the ph at which a substance is willing to dissolve at (in order to know what kind of solution you'll be pouring your substance into).
This could be a potential problem in my opionion since some people inexperienced with liquid dosing may not be aware that increasing a ph to a certain level or using certain kinds of alcohols may not only destroy/not preserve the substance that you're measuring but may also be potentially toxic if consumed (I found this weird thread while googling about this possible issue http://www.tribalwar...e/t-440450.html). I'm only posting this cause I know some people tend to mix alcohol with water to get it at the right ph level it seems... While this is fine, it would seem that avoiding lab chemicals (by a non-chemist) would be the best route to go (couldn't Everclear be used instead of 95% ethanol?)

2) Somehow determine the solubility ("weight per volumentric unit") of the substance to be measured.

Already knowing the "weight per volumetric unit" would avoid the hassle of somehow trying to figure out what weight or what volume to go with (for the equation below). This final volumetric unit is the number to use for liquid dosaging (see area under "Liquid Dosaging" below).

3) Weight (mg)/volume(ml)=weight per volumetric unit
It appears this final number (of "weight per volumetric unit") lets you know what 1 part powder (the weight unit) is in proportion with 1 part liquid (the volumetric unit)?
This hassle is usually not dealt with from my understanding

B) Liquid Dosaging:
[/b]The value of this final number ("weight per volumetric unit") is that it would let you determine the solubility of the substance? Based off of this concept of solubility, liquid dosaging could then be done by adding 1 part (substance in milligrams) of the substance with it's proportional 1 part volume (1 part liquid that is needed to dissolve 1 part substance) to get the dosage? For instance, assuming that you've measured out your 1 part of liquid (which would also need to be at the right ph or the measurement becomes meaningless), if too much of the substance is added to the vial (more than the "1 part that is needed") then the substance will stop dissolving in the vial. This would imply that you'd keep adding in powder until you know you have too much.

Edited by yowza, 08 April 2009 - 11:58 PM.

[yowza]

Hey guys!

I've tried out CXM716 a while ago.

The usual dosing is 75 mg-200 mg. People have also tried it from 300-500mg.

To start out, I took about 150 mg, waited abit then took around 300 mg. All in all, I'd probably say around 150-200mg is the ideal range (keep in mind I'm not suggesting this be used everyday).

The effects are subtle but increased coherence can be felt after a little bit. It's not like a stimulant where you feel something directly going on. If you take abit too much, the main effect that is noticed is that it seems abit anxiolytic. I didn't notice this until after I went up abit into the higher range.

What's odd about this is that you also don't feel the "in the zone" effect of a regular stimulant. There wasn't necessarily increased concentration that I felt as compared to dopaminergics nor the different kind of feel you get from nicotine. You don't really feel any psychoactive effects from the substance.

It doesn't really promote obsessing over something or really focusing hard nor the feel of enhanced level of perception you get from nicotine. It's more of a freeflow feel to it. When you go abit over the 250 mg range, you definitely feel an effect gradually starting to take place, which isn't necessarily one of increased concentration (in fact more doesn't seem to be better in this regard). Once taken in higher amounts, it begins to feel somewhat like an antidepressant to some degree and you can feel abit spacey (possibly due to overstimulation I'm guessing).

It may help integrate both hemispheres of the brain I'm thinking. If one hemisphere tends to dominate over the other, this would even things out. At just the right dosage (not too much, not too little), this could possibly help in terms of spatial awareness (remembering where you put things, ect.) or visual learning (being able to do visual puzzles in your head) providing you take it in the right amount.

Edited by yowza, 10 April 2009 - 04:38 AM.