302 replies to this topic

[mike250]

i was planning to take Mg Glycinate but heard the pills were quite large and now that I saw the link to Mag-2-AEP i may give it a try. or i could get some mag citrate instead

[chrono]

Well, a 400mg dose of magnesium requires you to take a total of like 2-6g material, so some pills are bound to be large. But I'm sure it depends on the brand. I'm most interested in buying bulk powders, so I can't speak from experience.

I'd look into the malate form before getting citrate, due to lesser chance of GI upset.


Did a little more searching on 2-AEP. The cellular membrane theory I can believe, but I'm more interested now in whether it might be more easily enter the brain. Couldn't find any compounds studied on pubmed, and not many for 2-AEP acid itself. Some (mostly from the 70s) saying it's found in the human brain. Eur J Biochem. 1974 Feb 15;42(1):129-34 says that very little injected 2-AEP acid ends up in the brain of rats.

Patent US5068228 is for synthesis of 2-AEP mineral compounds, and use for treatment of several neuropathies. Some brief mouse experiments demonstrating this, but using Ca-2AEP. If true, I don't know much about neuropathy, so I'm not sure if this means it gets into the brain, or affects peripheral nerves. Same with MS—though efficacy seems to rely entirely on anecdotal reports by Dr. Nieper. The National MS Society doesn't much care for it:

MS News Blog: Be Wary of Multiple Sclerosis "Cures"

Calcium ethylamino-phosphate (calcium EAP) has been promoted as a therapy or cure for MS and many other diseases. These claims are based on anecdotal reports rather than controlled clinical trials. The National Multiple Sclerosis Society has concluded that there is no objective evidence calcium EAP is effective against MS and "because the treatment protocol includes many different agents and may include a powerful drug that suppresses the immune system, the proposed therapy is not without serious risk." [4] The major proponent, a German physician named Hans Nieper, died in 1998, but the substance is still marketed here and abroad.

4. Calcium EAP. In Multiple Sclerosis Information Sourcebook. New York: National Multiple Sclerosis Society, 2003.

Though one of the Nieper pages I saw earlier said the MS Society doesn't elaborate on what suppresses the immune system. Guess the possibility should be kept in mind, though.

But, I guess the proof is in the pudding. What form(s) of magnesium have you used before?

Edited by chrono, 05 June 2010 - 02:20 AM.

[stephen_b]

I hadn't heard of these two forms of magnesium before (pidolate and acetlytaurate) discussed in an AOR publication. Maybe pidolate is the same as picolinate?

[sdxl]

I hadn't heard of these two forms of magnesium before (pidolate and acetlytaurate) discussed in an AOR publication. Maybe pidolate is the same as picolinate?

No, pidolate is pyroglutamate.

[HealthSmith]

Due to the fact that I get plenty of dairy from all the milk and cottage cheese I eat, I've decided to drop my current calcium/magnesium/d supplement and supplement D3 and Mag separately without Cal at all.

I am aware that magnesium oxide is not the best to get, so I went on a search for another, better absorbed magnesium...and ended up confusing the hell out of myself with all the choices out there!

What do you guys think is the best, most absorbed form? I see citrate here, which I know is better than oxide. But what about the Magnesium Malate? I guess since it's quite a bit pricier, it's better absorbed? Also I see Magnesium / Potassium Aspartate with Taurine....

Which is the better form to take? Malate, citrate, asparate? Are the malate and asparate worth the extra cost over the citrate? Which one would be superior between malate and aspartate?

Or am I over-analyzing this, and would be just as well off getting the cheap, NOW brand Magnesium Caps with a blend of oxide, citrate, and aspartate?

I am wanting to increase my mag supplementation to help me sleep at night and hopefully get rid of the "shaky leg syndrome" and I also hear it's good for depression. I know that when I take on the nights I take an epsom salt bath, I wake up feeling like a million bucks. I'd like the same feeling in the morning without having to bathe in it heh. Thanks all!

Hi,

I'm in pursuit of a good magnesium complex myself, relaxes muscles among so many other things. Epsom salt baths are one of the best things you can do for yourself though ... it's purported to literally pull toxins out of the body as well as relaxing your entire body, no wonder you feel so great during sleep and in the morning (I do too).

Dr. Weil recommends magnesium citrate. Dr. Stephen Sinatra, a nutrition and research oriented cardiologist recommends either singly or a complex of magnesium glycinate, taurinate or orotate.

Don't forget that almonds, bananas, leafy greens, cashews, pumpkin seeds (yummy when lightly pan roasted with a little tamari and sesame seed oil), beans and apricots are all rich in very bio-available magnesium.

[Lufega]

magnesium 2-AEP felt a lot like magnesium threonate the first time I used it. Unfortunately, I did get that effect again. Maybe placebo ? However, the effects of magnesium threonate are consistent.

[Wondherb]

Does anyone know why no one seems to sell magnesium lysinate capsules or tablets? I believe that both magnesium and lysine are good for anxiety and bone health(lysine improves calcium uptake) and anti-herpes as well so it seems like a great combo...

[pycnogenol]

Does anyone know why no one seems to sell magnesium lysinate capsules or tablets?

The Doctor's Best brand sells magnesium glycinate/lysinate.

http://www.iherb.com...lets/16567?at=0

I currently take Solaray brand Magnesium Asporotate capsules.

Edited by pycnogenol, 21 May 2011 - 01:13 PM.

[Wondherb]

yea i dont claim to know the answer. i spent like a day or two looking at orotic acid, malic acid, etc. i never really came to any firm conclusions. albion is probably the safest. bluebonnet makes some good stuff.

[Wondherb]

Yes but all the magnesium glycinate/lysinate pills are mostly glycinate

[Estrogen]

Hi guys, I have a question. Is KAL brand any good? I'm thinking about ordering their magnesium glycinate http://www.swansonvi.../ItemDetail?n=0

It's kinda pricey, but there are 180 caps [not bad].

ANd btw. what is the difference between caps and tabs?

[nameless]

If going for a glycinate, I'd suggest an Albion mag glycinate. I wouldn't consider KAL a top-tier brand myself.

Swanson probably has several albion products (check the label) that are relatively cheap. Carlson, Bluebonnet, etc. all make albion mag glycinates too.

Difference between a cap and tablet is simply preference, I'd think. Capsule may be a little smaller with material inside of it, while a tablet is solid. No difference in absorption that I am aware of.

[Estrogen]

If going for a glycinate, I'd suggest an Albion mag glycinate. I wouldn't consider KAL a top-tier brand myself.

Swanson probably has several albion products (check the label) that are relatively cheap. Carlson, Bluebonnet, etc. all make albion mag glycinates too.

Difference between a cap and tablet is simply preference, I'd think. Capsule may be a little smaller with material inside of it, while a tablet is solid. No difference in absorption that I am aware of.

Yeah Swanson got albion minerals chelate, but the only downside is that there is only 133 mg of magnesium per capsule.

http://www.swansonvi...U074/ItemDetail

Edited by Estrogen, 23 May 2011 - 10:53 AM.

[Wolf]

With reading through this entire thread and few others on these forums I think I will go with Magnesium Glycinate from Albion Labs. Which I've found the cheapest of those on iHerb/Amazon to be either Carlson or Bluebonnet. Solgar and Swanson's have less than 200 mg per tablet.

Last year I started with Magnesium Oxide before I started doing much more in-depth research on what I take. I've been doing Magnesium Citrate for quite awhile now. I haven't had any stomach problems with it but I've only been taking two 200 mg tablets a day. I haven't really felt any benefits at that dosage though I know I'm probably not getting much magnesium at that dosage. So that's why I thought I should either start upping the dosage of Magnesium Citrate to bowel tolerance or find a more bioavailable form.

The Magnesium Orotate does sound pretty interesting. I'm all for extra heart benefits. But the price is usually much more as well. I did find Nutrient Carriers Incorporated Magnesium Orotate on iHerb/Amazon around $25 for 100 tablets at 500 mg. Does anyone know the quality of NCI? Would it be worth doing 500 mg of Orotate a day vs. doing 400 mg of Glycinate? Or would it be smarter just to stick with an Albion Labs Glycinate?

[niner]

The Magnesium Orotate does sound pretty interesting. I'm all for extra heart benefits. But the price is usually much more as well. I did find Nutrient Carriers Incorporated Magnesium Orotate on iHerb/Amazon around $25 for 100 tablets at 500 mg. Does anyone know the quality of NCI? Would it be worth doing 500 mg of Orotate a day vs. doing 400 mg of Glycinate? Or would it be smarter just to stick with an Albion Labs Glycinate?

Go with the glycinate. NCI has been known to state the total weight of the compound, which includes the heavy orotate counterion, instead of the elemental weight of the magnesium which is what most people quote. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. If it's 500mg elemental, then the capsule will weigh 6.88grams(!) I think NCI is bullshitting us. I recall some sort of possible toxicity with the orotate anion, though I've flakily forgotten what the problem was. I do remember deciding not to use it in large quantities any more. I still take a very small amount of lithium orotate. As for a source of magnesium, I've used many. I probably get all I need from my diet, but I take 200mg elemental as the citrate these days. It's very cheap and I've never had a problem with it.

[Ark]

I've been taking a bit of MLT, it is by far the best of the choices IMHO.

Magnesium L-threonate is a magnesium salt of L-threonic acid having the formula Mg(C₄H₇O₅)₂.^[1]

One study reported that magnesium L-threonate administered to rats significantly boosts their cognitive abilities^{[2] [3]}, and suggest that the same effect may occur in humans, although this remains to be tested. Another study suggests that because L-threonate inhibited DKK-1 expression, it may have application as a treatment for the prevention of androgen-driven balding^[4]

[Wolf]

Thanks for the advice niner. And I did read some on here about Magnesium Threonate. But it sounded like it was pretty new without much testing yet. Though maybe the thread was a bit older and newer information and products out. But I'm guessing the price would still be more than I could reasonably afford at the moment.

[tomakin]

Probably someone posted it already, but it's always worth mentioning - there is NO difference between the magnesium salts, Once they dissociate, it's magnesium ion free to be absorbed, and our body can't see the difference between ion from magnesium gluconate and - for example - chloride. Only exception is the magnesium oxide, as it's not salt.

Some of the magnesium salts, like the citrate or glutonate, can increse the excrection of digestive fluids, but it only matters when you take them on an empty stomach (and all the studies about their "better avaliability" are made this way). Some magnesium salts are beneficial because they have a valuable cation, i.e. magnesium ascorbate - salt of magnesium and vitamin C - grants same properties as the vitamin C taken in separated dose, citrate - same as the citric acid and so on. But for the magnesium bioavaliability they are just the same.

I'm using the magnesium chloride right now, which cost around 1 euro / kg (or one dollar per pound), Epsom salts baths mentioned earlier are also excellent and cheap source of magnesium.

Edited by tomakin, 19 December 2011 - 04:39 AM.

[Wolf]

I haven't taken a bath since I was a kid, but epsom salts does make me a bit curious. How long would you need to stay in an epsom salt bath to get a decent amount of magnesium? Would it really be any better than taking a tablet/capsule of magnesium instead?

[tomakin]

Why instead? Use them both, the Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate - and the sulfur does at least as much good as magnesium in this case. Use as hot water as you can stand, this will increase absorption, get a good book and enjoy :D Hot water increase absorption of the heavy metals / fluoride if you have some in your local tapwater, so use this with caution.

[nameless]

. I recall some sort of possible toxicity with the orotate anion, though I've flakily forgotten what the problem was. I do remember deciding not to use it in large quantities any more.

It had to do with orotic acid increasing tumor/cancer rates in animals.

http://www.efsa.euro...f?ssbinary=true

[Wolf]

I ended up buying Carlson Magnesium Glycinate. I recently came across Doctors Best High Absorption Magnesium. It says it has 100 mg of elemental magnesium per tablet from 1000 mg magnesium glycinate/lysinate chelate. It says it uses Albion minerals as well. Could this be true or are they trying to trick you somehow? I was considering going with this brand next unless someone here thinks it's bad.

By the way, how much elemental magnesium would I be getting out of 400 mg of the Carlson Magnesium Glycinate?

[brokenportal]

Here is a discussion about how much magnesium to put into the new Longecity community (that's you) designed multi-vitamin: http://www.longecity...gnesium-amount/

[Anewlife]

I havent tried many magnesium suppliments, just a magnesium mix and ZMA, but recently tried one that I think I will now stick to.
Its Natures way high strength Magnesium 600mg with vit D3. It also has 50mg b6 and 40mg (4mg equiv) manganese.
The D3 is a low dose 100IU.

It makes me sleepy which I think means my body is absorbing it, the other magnesium suppliments I do not really feel.
It says on the label the D3 and B6 are cofactors so I would assume these are whats helping me to absorb the magnesium.
The ele equiv of magnesium is 321mg in the tablet.

Edited by Anewlife, 25 December 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[Strelok]

I'll suggest what I've found to work well: Time released magnesium malate. Here's a link: http://www.jigsawhea...ments/magnesium

If you get it when they have one of their 25% off sales, it matches or beats the prices of my prior Mg supplement, Magnesium Calm, which is in citrate form.

[zenman]

Hi Guys!

Thank you for the detailed discussion. I learn so much from this thread!

My mum has a CHF and I read that Mag Orotate is cardio-protective. At the next visit to the cardio, I requested for bloodtest for magnesium which came back as 0.6, which is below the 0.7-1.0 reference range.
The hospital does not dispense magnesium supplements & the range of over-the-counter Mg supplements from pharmacies were rather limited. I found that Mg Orotate (attributed to Hans Nieper) was used in studies on Cardiac patients with some success.
I bought NCI Magnesium Orotate and my mum's MG level imprved to 0.9 and stayed there!

Recently, I purchased a new bottle of NCI MG Oro and found issues with the packaging. It has no expiry date (Batch #202332) & the bottle is not sealed inside. The seal (the one that says "Sealed for your Protection") is stuck to the cap & does not have any adhesive around the lip of the bottle. Furthermore, the tablet is slightly smaller. My previous stock (Batch #10104) is powdery compared to the new one which is glazed.. I wrote to NCI, the manufacturer 2x in the last 3 weeks and have to receive any response! Suddenly I do not feel comfortable with NCI's products!

Its not easy to find another Mg Orotate and my search brought me here! I found that AOR has Mg Orotate as well and much cheaper than NCI.

Thank you guys!

Edited by zenman, 16 January 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[Climactic]

I bought NCI Magnesium Orotate

Orotic acid is mutagenic. Just see Google Scholar. It may be ok for short term consumption. I cannot advocate it for long term consumption.

[zenman]

I bought NCI Magnesium Orotate

Orotic acid is mutagenic. Just see Google Scholar. It may be ok for short term consumption. I cannot advocate it for long term consumption.

Thank you for the info. I did not realize that longterm use of orotic acid can be so risky.
The advantage of Mg Orotate is that it is cardio-protective as it has been demonstrated in so many studies but none seem to talk about orotic acid being mutagenic.

Does this means I should settle for 2nd best, ie chelated Mg Glycinate, for a chronic heart failure patient with diabetes?
My aim is to maintain MG within the reference range in the bloodtest.

From this discussion, I gather that Albion is the reliable manufacturer for Mg Glysinate supplements for these:
Companies & these companies

I found these brands using Albion's : Swanson, Carlson, Bluebonnet, Dr Best and Solgar (ranking in ascending order from the cheapest price per 1000mg chelated Mg Glycinate)

Looking forward to your input. :-)

Edited by zenman, 16 January 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Climactic]

I found these brands using Albion's : Swanson, Carlson, Bluebonnet, Dr Best and Solgar (ranking in ascending order from the cheapest price per 1000mg chelated Mg Glycinate)

Vitacost sells magnesium glycinate as well, but not the chelated Albion brand as far as I know - this probably makes the Vitacost brand cheaper. Frankly, I don't know how much of a difference the chelation really makes for the glycinate form. In any case, did you mean 1000 mg of elemental magnesium (from magnesium glycinate), or did you mean 1000 mg of magnesium glycinate itself? It helps to be very specific here. If you meant the former, that's a lot of magnesium to be taking in the long-term, and I wonder if it will displace your calcium, so be careful. For mere maintenance, much less elemental magnesium may be adequate. I assume you meant the later.

If you're going to be taking > ~200 mg elemental supplemental magnesium daily, it might be a good idea to take more than one type. For example, 200 as glycinate and 200 as citrate - this is only an example is not a recommendation.

Up to 3g glycine is known to help with sleep. If you're going to take the glycinate form only once daily, I suggest doing this before sleep.

Edited by Climactic, 16 January 2013 - 04:58 PM.

[zenman]

Hi,

I took the quantity of Mg from the Supplement Facts at the back of the bottle.
The prices are approximate (from iherb & Vitacost)

Brand # caps px servings price
p.bottle # Amount p.1000mg
Swanson 180 7.29 180 133 0.305 glycinate albion
Vitacost 180 14.99 90 400 0.416 glycinate
KAL 180 16.29 90 400 0.453 glycinate
Carlson 180 21.39 180 200 0.594 glycinate
Bbonnet 180 23.13 180 200 0.643 glycinate albion
SNatural 120 8.54 60 200 0.712 bis-glycinate
Dr Best 240 17.17 120 200 0.715 glycinate/lysinate albion
Solgar 250 20.78 62 400 0.838 glycinate albion
Carlson 180 22.04 180 100 1.224 glycinate
Solaray 120 18.09 30 400 1.508 glycinate

Those from Albion are indicated above.