302 replies to this topic

[Climactic]

I took the quantity of Mg from the Supplement Facts at the back of the bottle.
The prices are approximate (from iherb & Vitacost)

Good work! Swanson and Vitacost brands are almost always less expensive than the others.

[zenman]

Oops..
I just realise my previous post showing the table of price comparison of Mg Glycinate appeared squashed & I cant edit it.

Please see attached xls file comparing various brands of Mg Glycinate.

The price of Mg Glycinate from Albion ranges from 30.5c to 130c per 1000mg!

It is interesting to note that some of the reviewers were comparing the bioavailabilty etc of one brand against another even though they use the same product from Albion!!!!

Attached Files

•  magnesium glycinate.xls   17.5KB   31 downloads

[zenman]

I took the quantity of Mg from the Supplement Facts at the back of the bottle.
The prices are approximate (from iherb & Vitacost)

Good work! Swanson and Vitacost brands are almost always less expensive than the others.

House (no-frills) brands are always the cheapest compared to the big brands.
So prices may vary widely even for the same product.

If you meant the former, that's a lot of magnesium to be taking in the long-term, and I wonder if it will displace your calcium, so be careful.

There is the balance of calcium to magnesium to be kept in the range of 1:1 to 2:1. Most people are deficient in Mg, so I think this shouldnt be a problem unless one take a huge Mg supplement. Then again, its not the quantity of Elemental Mg but how much of that is actually bioavailable.

Bioavailabity
Magnesium oxide is the most dense magnesium compound and the one most often used in mineral supplements and multivitamins. It contains 300 mg of elemental magnesium per 500 mg tablet, but is extremely poorly absorbed. Only about 4% of its elemental magnesium is absorbed or about 12 mg out of a 500 mg tablet.

Magnesium carbonate contains 125 mg of elemental magnesium per 500 mg tablet, but is poorly absorbed.

Chelated magnesium (magnesium glycinate) is magnesium bound in a complex of glycine and lysine. It is easily absorbed and highly bioavailable. The magnesium (elemental) content per tablet or capsule is usually 100 mg.

Magnesium orotate contains only 31 mg of elemental magnesium per 500 mg tablet. However, it is well absorbed and has been found highly effective in daily intakes of 3000 mg (186 mg elemental).

Magnesium citrate contains 80 mg of elemental magnesium per 500 mg tablet. It is far better absorbed than is magnesium oxide. The water soluble form (Natural Calm) contains 205 mg of elemental magnesium per teaspoon, is totally soluble in hot water and is highly bioavailable.

Magnesium maleate contains 56 mg of elemental magnesium per 500 mg tablet.

Magnesium gluconate contains 27 mg of elemental magnesium per 500 mg tablet. It is easily absorbed and quick acting.

Source - http://www.afibbers.org/magnesium.htm

[shaggy]

Chelated magnesium (magnesium glycinate) is magnesium bound in a complex of glycine and lysine. It is easily absorbed and highly bioavailable. The magnesium (elemental) content per tablet or capsule is usually 100 mg.

I'm not convinced this is correct? From what I can see Doctor's Best is the only true dipeptide bonded amino acid chelate and the others in your list are straight magnesium glycine without lysine. I've checked Albions website which to me seems to confirm this and the fact that the dipeptide formula is better absorbed.

Knowing this I'll stick with the Doctor's Best formulation.

Good work though! ;-)

Edited by shaggy, 19 January 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[zenman]

Sorry, I cant verify that this is incorrect. This information was quoted from a source given above.

Although Dr Best gets its Mg from Albion, it seems their's contain an additional lysinate in addition to regular glycinate which the other brands dont have.

I looked up Mg Lysinate & found this...
3.1. Bioavailability
Magnesium L-lysinate, ... salts of L-lysine and, like other
salts of organic acids, soluble in water. No information was provided on the bioavailability of
magnesium,... from the L-lysinate sources however, their bioavailability is likely to
be similar to that of other soluble sources of these cations. The compounds are expected to
dissociate before absorption and to be absorbed in the intestine.

source - http://www.efsa.euro...f?ssbinary=true

[simplify]

I've found the mag glycinates (albion) reliable. One bit of info about the albion mags I found out is that the buffered versions (Carlson, Bluebonnet) use mag oxide as a buffering agent. I don't know if they include the mag oxide as part of the total elemental mag per capsule... hopefully they don't... but the albion folks wouldn't say.

What a great thread. I was hoping that someone might have more info about the above statement, that mag oxide is used as a buffering agent in the buffered versions of mag glycinate (like Bluebonnet). I have seen this statement echoed in various forums, but it's always vague like this with no attribution or citation to back it up.

I find it hard to believe, for a couple reasons: buffering of mag glycinate, as I understand it, is done to make it more acidic (which enhances absorption). Would mag oxide even do that? Secondly, wouldn't they have to list mag oxide as an ingredient? I would think that at least the more reputable companies would state that, since there may be people who are sensitive to the oxide form but not the glycinate, so truth-in-labeling would require them to say it's in there, no?

Does anyone know if this statement is actually true, or where it might have come from? TIA!

[rcol1441]

In 2010 I emailed Albion asking what "buffered" means, and they replied, "Unlike all of the other magnesium chelates, the buffered form does not provide all of its magnesium in chelate form. It is a mix of Magnesium Glycinate Chelate and the buffer, which is Magnesium Oxide." So there's your answer straight from the source.

Take a look at Swanson's "Albion Chelated Magnesium Glycinate," which the Supplement Facts describes as "Magnesium (from TRAACS®magnesium glycinate chelate buffered)." If you look at the "other ingredients list" you will see that -- at least as of this posting -- it does indeed list Mag Oxide second, after gelatin. (NOTE: if the link doesn't show because I am newly-registered, just look up the product at the Swanson Vitamins site.)

http://www.swansonvi...133-mg-180-caps

I've seen a couple other brands that are upfront about this, though I can't recall which at the moment.

In 2011 I emailed Doctor's Best and asked them what the "Not Buffered" on the label of their Albion Mag Glycinate/Lysinate product meant, and they replied that it means it is 100% fully reacted, and contains no Mag Oxide. They claimed that all the other "Buffered" Mag Glycinates are 50% Mag Oxide. (BTW, I don't know if that "50%" was for elemental or total mag, but if it was 50% total then the buffered products would actually be far more than half oxide in elemental terms.)

I sometimes think many Mag-product mfrs play games (profit-driven, of course). Many have "proprietary belnds" of multiple mag types. Country Life has a product blending 4 or 5 different types of mags. When I wrote them they said that the actual %'s that each contribute are proprietary, but that the amounts of each would be in the order listed on the label. I asked if this ordering is by total or elemental, and they said total. That means that even though oxide may be way down on the list, for all we know it could be the number one contributor to elemental mag, since elemental as a % of total is much higher for oxide than other types.

Edited by rcol1441, 11 February 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[nameless]

There is nothing necessarily wrong with using mag oxide as a buffering agent, or wrong with mag oxide by itself. But yeah, manufacturers in general tend to play games with their 'blends', not mentioning what percentage is what.

If you can tolerate mag oxide, it's actually fine (and really cheap too). A lot of the 'poor absorption' data overlooks the fact that it takes a while for mag oxide to absorb -- consider it like a slower release version.

[rcol1441]

There is nothing necessarily wrong with using mag oxide as a buffering agent, or wrong with mag oxide by itself. But yeah, manufacturers in general tend to play games with their 'blends', not mentioning what percentage is what.

If you can tolerate mag oxide, it's actually fine (and really cheap too). A lot of the 'poor absorption' data overlooks the fact that it takes a while for mag oxide to absorb -- consider it like a slower release version.

Agree that Mag Ox is fine if you can tolerate. What's *not* fine is people paying 5-10 times as much for it when they think they're paying that premium to get something else.

[Climactic]

A lot of the 'poor absorption' data overlooks the fact that it takes a while for mag oxide to absorb -- consider it like a slower release version.

In a fast mover like me, it will poop out before it has absorbed. No, thanks. I'd rather stick to a faster absorbing form.

[simplify]

Agree that Mag Ox is fine if you can tolerate. What's *not* fine is people paying 5-10 times as much for it when they think they're paying that premium to get something else.

Right, that's the issue. Makes it impossible to do a fair comparison when choosing a supplement mfr, for instance the Bluebonnet http://www.bluebonne...m_200_mg_Vcaps# which is an Albion fully reacted mag glycinate. It's buffered, but they don't list mag oxide in the ingredients, so there is no way to know if it's in there or not, or how much of the stated 200 mg elemental magnesium comes from it. It's just annoying.

I'd prefer a capsule form like Bluebonnet, but it seems like the Drs Best might be the only maker of a glycinate form who is really straightforward about the content.

[stephen_b]

I'll suggest what I've found to work well: Time released magnesium malate. Here's a link: http://www.jigsawhea...ments/magnesium

Interesting product. I wonder if it would help people like me who can't take even 400mg at once due to the laxative effect.

Edit: cheaper at amazon. There are a number of other time release Mg there too.

Edit 2: it seems like these time release magnesium products are magnesium chloride, which I think should be fine if the delivery system works as advertized.

Edited by stephen_b, 12 February 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[Climactic]

Drs Best might be the only maker of a glycinate form who is really straightforward about the content.

I went ahead and purchased the Doctor's Best unbuffered magnesium glycinate/lysinate form. I'll take it at night because of glycine's connection with sleep.

[Deckah]

For anyone interested, you can find magnesium glycinate(powdered) @ purebulk for a good price. They have 20% off blackfriday discounts as well and should have a 7% off facebook discount year-round.

I was going to purchase the swanson form of glycinate, didn't realize that oxide may be a secondary high % form of magnesium in the formula. Thanks for pointing that out. Still using the conventional wisdom on it. Not saying it's bad/good, but I can find oxide for MUCH cheaper if I actually wanted it, rather than it being sneaked in to something.

Edited by Deckah, 12 February 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[Climactic]

Here is set of dumb questions:

• What might be the reason for buffering anyway?
  
• How important is it to buffer the glycinate form?
  
• Is the oxide form a good buffer?

We've heard the money-saving and absorption-inhibiting arguments from the anti-bufferists, but is there an argument from the buffer advocacy group too?

Edited by Climactic, 13 February 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[rcol1441]

We've heard the money-saving and absorption-inhibiting arguments from the anti-bufferists, but is there an argument from the buffer advocacy group too?

I know this isn't exactly what you're seeking, but one user advantage of buffering with magnesium oxide is reduced tablet size for a given amount of elemental magnesium -- if that's a tradeoff one is willing to make. Also, I've seen numerous suggestions to take multiple different types of magnesium (or a multi-type supplement) to hedge one's bets.

[simplify]

In 2010 I emailed Albion asking what "buffered" means, and they replied, "Unlike all of the other magnesium chelates, the buffered form does not provide all of its magnesium in chelate form. It is a mix of Magnesium Glycinate Chelate and the buffer, which is Magnesium Oxide." So there's your answer straight from the source.
[...]
In 2011 I emailed Doctor's Best and asked them what the "Not Buffered" on the label of their Albion Mag Glycinate/Lysinate product meant, and they replied that it means it is 100% fully reacted, and contains no Mag Oxide. They claimed that all the other "Buffered" Mag Glycinates are 50% Mag Oxide. (BTW, I don't know if that "50%" was for elemental or total mag, but if it was 50% total then the buffered products would actually be far more than half oxide in elemental terms.)

I have some information from Bluebonnet, which sheds some light on a couple things we were discussing. Their Mg Glycinate is the buffered glycinate chelate that so many companies use in their supplements. I asked them about Albion's assertion, quoted above, that all buffered forms of the chelate include Mg Oxide. I asked if their stated 200 mg of elemental Mg would therefore be partly from Mg Oxide. Here's what they said:

"Yes, the Albion Chelated magnesium has to start with the base of magnesium which is oxide in order to properly be bound to the glycine, all other forms are salts of magnesium (citrate, aspartate etc.) and would not work. The end product is magnesium bisglycine which means the mg oxide (50%) is bound to 2 molecules of glycine the smallest amino acid derived from rice. The 200 mg elemental magnesium is 50/50 oxide/glycine."

I'm in the process of asking Albion to confirm this, and to confirm that the glycinate/lysinate chelate (used by Doctors Best) does not derive any part of its elemental Mg yield from the oxide form. I've read all the information I can find on their site, and also the impressively detailed description on the Doctors Best site (which can be found here in the form of a pdf): http://www.drbvitami...3/factsheet.pdf

Everything I've seen would imply that Doctors Best is correct, that their chelate is formed from elemental Mg. That chelate (lysyl glycinate) is listed on Albion's site, if you scroll down to Mg here:
http://www.albionmin...ts-trade/traacs
and does not say "buffered" so the assumption is that therefore it doesn't have Mg oxide, but I have put in an email request for more information to validate that, and will keep you posted.

I think the takeaway point so far is that it's not enough to compare just the stated elemental Mg yield on seemingly similar glycinate chelate supplements. The elemental yield from any that are using the buffered glycinate chelate is apparently 50% from Mg oxide, which is not nearly as well absorbed as a chelate that's all glycine/lysine. Perhaps those makers who use the buffered form feel no need to list Mg oxide as an ingredient, because they're buying the product from Albion, not adding Mg oxide themselves. In their minds, that buffered chelate is probably one single ingredient. I still feel it's misleading to not clarify on their labels that half of the stated elemental Mg is from oxide.

[rcol1441]

Very interesting, simplify. I completely agree with your concern about the misleading product labeling, whether intentional or not. I'll be curious to hear the latest from Albion.

[zenman]

Swanson Chelated Magnesium Glycinate , Doctor's Best Chelated Magnesium & Bluebonnet Chelated Magnesium
all get their Mg Glycinate Chelate from Albion. Swanson's & Bluebonnet's are buffered which means the contents (except for the capsules) should be identical, but Swanson listed Mg Oxide in its ingredients.
DrBest's is not buffered and also use the lysinate chelate.

Does this mean Albion manufactures different types of Mg Glycinate for different brands or that the different brands market their Mg Glycinate (which are essentially identical) differently?

In terms of prices (per 1000mg elemental Mg), Swanson's 30c, Bluebonnet's 64c & DrBest's 71c. (see attached file above)

Edited by zenman, 14 February 2013 - 04:26 AM.

[Zwergpirat]

Always those recurring magnesium topics.. ;-)

Still sure, that mag oxide is dirt cheap and bioavailable..

http://www.longecity...nesium-citrate/

[niner]

It's a myth that mag oxide is poorly absorbed. The source of the myth was a 2001 paper by Firoz and Graber, which used very short-term urine collection, and came to the erroneous conclusion that the fractional absorption of the oxide form was 4%. Coudray et al. in 2005 published a study that used long term collection, and found that the oxide bioavailability was quite good. Better even than some of the organic forms. Gluconate was the best, in their study. Looking at Plasma Mg, RBC Mg, and Bone Mg at the end of the experiment, no significant difference was found from any form. The Coudray paper has free text, but the headings are buggy in their HTML tables, so be sure to take note of that if you read it. This post may also be interesting.

The bottom line is that there isn't much point in looking for the "best" form of magnesium, because they are all pretty similar in the end. Look at the RBC and Bone magnesium- that's what counts. Oxide has the highest magnesium density of any form by far, so it doesn't require multiple pills, or even a large one. It's also one of the least expensive, and it's quite well tolerated. You should find a form that agrees with your digestive tract and your wallet, and don't bother obsessing over it. If you are looking for special effects like increasing brain Mg, then you will probably want to consider exotic forms like threonate, but be prepared to take a lot of caps.

The supplement industry owes a huge debt to Firoz and Graber, since their erroneous conclusion created an entire market segment.

Edited by niner, 14 February 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[simplify]

It's a myth that mag oxide is poorly absorbed. The source of the myth was a 2001 paper by Firoz and Graber, which used very short-term urine collection, and came to the erroneous conclusion that the fractional absorption of the oxide form was 4%. Coudray et al. in 2005 published a study that used long term collection, and found that the oxide bioavailability was quite good. Better even than some of the organic forms. Gluconate was the best, in their study. Looking at Plasma Mg, RBC Mg, and Bone Mg at the end of the experiment, no significant difference was found from any form. The Coudray paper has free text, but the headings are buggy in their HTML tables, so be sure to take note of that if you read it.
The supplement industry owes a huge debt to Firoz and Graber, since their erroneous conclusion created an entire market segment.

Okay, two things. First, the Firoz/Graber study was done in humans, the Coudray study was done in rats.

Secondly, and this is the major point of all this discussion, it's an issue of getting whatever you choose to pay for. I choose to pay a premium for a glycinate/lysinate chelate, NOT mag oxide. If I wanted mag oxide, I would not be willing to pay anywhere near what it costs to buy the chelate. So if I'm paying for glycinate chelate, I do not want 50% oxide. It's as simple as that. It's all about truth in labeling.

[simplify]

Does this mean Albion manufactures different types of Mg Glycinate for different brands or that the different brands market their Mg Glycinate (which are essentially identical) differently?

They are different chelates, apparently only one is buffered. See the link I posted above, on Albion's site. Doctors Best uses an unbuffered chelate.

[niner]

It's a myth that mag oxide is poorly absorbed. The source of the myth was a 2001 paper by Firoz and Graber, which used very short-term urine collection, and came to the erroneous conclusion that the fractional absorption of the oxide form was 4%. Coudray et al. in 2005 published a study that used long term collection, and found that the oxide bioavailability was quite good. Better even than some of the organic forms. Gluconate was the best, in their study. Looking at Plasma Mg, RBC Mg, and Bone Mg at the end of the experiment, no significant difference was found from any form. The Coudray paper has free text, but the headings are buggy in their HTML tables, so be sure to take note of that if you read it.
The supplement industry owes a huge debt to Firoz and Graber, since their erroneous conclusion created an entire market segment.

Okay, two things. First, the Firoz/Graber study was done in humans, the Coudray study was done in rats.

Secondly, and this is the major point of all this discussion, it's an issue of getting whatever you choose to pay for. I choose to pay a premium for a glycinate/lysinate chelate, NOT mag oxide. If I wanted mag oxide, I would not be willing to pay anywhere near what it costs to buy the chelate. So if I'm paying for glycinate chelate, I do not want 50% oxide. It's as simple as that. It's all about truth in labeling.

Good point, but in this case, a study done correctly in rats is more useful than a study done incorrectly in humans. Unless there is some evidence (using correct methodology) that the organic forms are notably better in humans, all we really have to go on is Coudray's rat data, which doesn't give us any reason to believe that oxide is bad.

I completely agree with you that there is a truth in labeling issue here. Would a pure chelate cost twice as much?

[Luminosity]

Nameless is smart his or her recommendations are something to consider. Someone was weighing Source Naturals vs. Country Life? Sources Naturals is a good brand. Country Life, not so much.

I'm so confused right now. Maybe I'll try magnesium glycinate by Albion or the Source Naturals or whatever one had all the types in it. Or Ororate? What are these things made of anyway? Are the mined or made in a lab?

[nameless]

I suggest avoiding mag orotate. Orotic acid has been linked with increased tumor growth -- in ratties, but still, why risk it?

Just go with whatever your digestive system can tolerate. If you don't spend all of your time in the bathroom due to oxide, it's fine. And it's rather cheap.

And if people are curious about the buffer/non-buffer thing with Albion, it is best to contact them directly. If they don't reply, then... well, bend the truth a bit. Pretend you are part of a company that wishes to use their product in your own multivitamin and want info on the difference in forms. I have done that (accidentally) by simply contacting some source material manufacturers in the past with questions -- they assume I am a company and want to buy their product in bulk.

[Luminosity]

Thanks. Where do you buy Albion vitamins? Do you buy them in capsules or are they raw materials?

Regular magnesium can cause digestive upsets for me. I had already ordered some Vitacost brand citrate because it is highly rated by consumers on their polls and I liked another of their brand name supplements. I haven't received it yet. I'll avoid oxide because it would probably affect me that way.

[nameless]

Thanks. Where do you buy Albion vitamins? Do you buy them in capsules or are they raw materials?

Regular magnesium can cause digestive upsets for me. I had already ordered some Vitacost brand citrate because it is highly rated by consumers on their polls and I liked another of their brand name supplements. I haven't received it yet. I'll avoid oxide because it would probably affect me that way.

As others have mentioned above, you can get albion glycinate in several brands. I think Doctor's Best is one here that some have used. Bluebonnet has another (which I think is the buffered variety). When I used to take albion mag glycinate, I just got it from Vitamin Shoppe, Amino-Mag from 'Health Yourself', if I recall correctly -- I know that sounds like a no-name brand, but it's actually just a label from Douglas Labs.

If a company uses Albion mag, they should list it on the label. It's a selling point for them.

Make sure you use low doses to start with, if it causes digestive issues. There are also one or two time release versions that I am aware of, if all else fails.

And I am not fond of Vitacost supplements, especially their house brand. It may be cheap, but you can get better brands for cheap too.

Edited by nameless, 15 February 2013 - 04:38 AM.

[Luminosity]

Their Boswellian is the best around and cheap. Haven't tried their other products. Thanks for the info.

[zenman]

I suggest avoiding mag orotate. Orotic acid has been linked with increased tumor growth -- in ratties, but still, why risk it?

Just go with whatever your digestive system can tolerate. If you don't spend all of your time in the bathroom due to oxide, it's fine. And it's rather cheap.

And if people are curious about the buffer/non-buffer thing with Albion, it is best to contact them directly. If they don't reply, then... well, bend the truth a bit. Pretend you are part of a company that wishes to use their product in your own multivitamin and want info on the difference in forms. I have done that (accidentally) by simply contacting some source material manufacturers in the past with questions -- they assume I am a company and want to buy their product in bulk.

Uh! I used Magnesium Orotate specifically for its efficacy in CHF patients, as well as to raise a low Mg level in the bloodtest. Previously I was using Magnesium Orotate from Nutrient Carriers Incorporated, but their customer service is terrible. No replies to my 2 enquiries!

I was looking for a replacement and thankfully I discovered AOR Cardio-Mag from this discussion.

AOR Cardio-Mag 2.0
I suppose the benefits outweighs the risks in this situation.

Research - http://www.aor.ca/pr...0/#research_tab

Edited by zenman, 16 February 2013 - 10:20 AM.