302 replies to this topic

[balance]

Any other form of magnesium you think is better health wise?

[rcol1441]

rcol1441 was apparently NOT on the right track.

Actually, I was spot on, in post 227 where I cautioned, "Unfortunately -- unless you're luckier than me -- I wouldn't count on an informative answer. I've asked several makers of mixed-magnesium-type products what proportion is supplied by each type, and I'm always told that that's proprietary information."

Despite Swanson's spin, I'm fairly sure "proprietary" here really means "we don't want you to know that the elemental magnesium is dominated by the cheap stuff, not the one we tout on the label." (BTW, until a few years ago Swanson used the same Albion glycinate/lysinate chelate that Doctor's Best still uses, but with a few added ingredients they touted as absorption enhancers. Also BTW, per a helpful email from Doctor's Best, the non-buffered product is "Magnesium Lysyl Glycinate Chelate containing 6.65% lysine and 64.97% glycine w/w.")

If indeed 18% of the active product (not counting fillers and binders) is elemental magnesium, and if this is correct, I think this is all you need to know to ascertain the ratio of magnesium as glycinate to magnesium as oxide in the product. Use the molecular weights of magnesium, magnesium glycinate, and magnesium oxide to do the math. There is just one configuration in which this can happen.

That ratio has always netted me a "sorry, proprietary information" response as well. As I said in post 227, they will happily give you the order, but not the actual ratios (and not even the order for elemental). One example was when I was trying to find out the actual elemental composition of Country Life Magnesium Potassium Aspartate . It also contains several other types of magnesium per the label, including of course oxide. "Aspartate" is the one in the product name, and the one that is supposedly predominate in terms of total magnesium, but I was trying -- unsuccessfully -- to find out if it was also predominate in the elemental mix.

Edited by rcol1441, 30 July 2013 - 11:22 PM.

[Luddist]

Their new reply:

"We will be glad to explain further. After speaking with several Product Specialists and Albion, they informed us that the elemental Magnesium is 200 milligrams. The remaining amount is Albion’s proprietary blend and is not provided to consumers. The reason for a proprietary blend to be put on a supplementary food is to keep the amount and ratio of each ingredient in the formula as a 'trade secret' to prevent copying of the formula by other competitors. Unfortunately, we do not have the specific amount for each ingredient in this supplement. We hope this information is helpful. Please contact us if you have further questions.
Our quality, value and customer service have made Swanson Health Products a trusted source of nutritional supplements since 1969. To help us build this privileged relationship with you, we welcome your comments and suggestions, as it is our pleasure to serve you at any time.
Have a Blessed Day!
Kari D."


Basically, useless answer.

Yeah because every competitor is chomping at the bit to get their hands on Swanson's world-famous magnesium glycinate blend formula. What rcol1441 said above is a better answer. Makes me doubt if any of the buffered products are worth a damn.

Most magnesium supplements help people who suffer from constipation...lets just say that I have the opposite problem and certainly don't want any of magnesium's "help". In other words, any magnesium supplements that will not result in me dropping massive liquid poody pies in my toilet? Thanks.

Magnesium malate and magnesium glycinate (at least the non-buffered one that only Doctor's Best seems to offer for some reason) are the cheapest non-pee-out-your-butt varieties. Malate is the more cost effective. I've found Thompson or Nature's Life brand (same parent company, probably exact same thing) to be the cheapest Mg malate available.

Edited by Luddist, 30 July 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[balance]

About the constipation/diarrhea topic, I used to get diarrhea from even a single pill of Magnesium from every source I could imagine. I have ordered a couple of bottles from the Doctor's Best one and have been extremely surprised that I have not had any digestive upset even when taking 4 a day (spread out and with meals). I'm not exactly too keen on pushing my luck until I hit the mark, however, it may be a wise thing to do to reach optimal levels (vitamin C bowel titration idea).

However ACU cell makes the point that even water soluble can do a lot of damage in their short stay in the body, and that taking high doses of something can cause massive imbalance. He claims it's not an indication of tissue saturation but sensitivity to the particular form the vitamin/mineral in question. See more here:

http://www.acu-cell.com/vitc.html

[Luddist]

Although I've read you can slowly gain tolerance to the diarrhea-causing ones, there's an actual difference between the glycinate, malate, and probably a few other forms vs. oxide and citrate as far as bowel tolerance goes. Glycinate or malate were recommended to me by my doctor to avoid the effect.

[nameless]

As stated, citrate and oxide are probably the most likely to cause diarrhea issues. Glycinate or Lactate should be a bit better. I personally found mag lactate to be the easiest on the digestive system overall.

You can go time released too, if the gentler ones even cause an issue. There is a time released mag malate and lactate availabe. Or just dose small, and break up the doses 2-3 times daily, rather than gobble it all up in one large dose.

[penots]

I have a Q regarding your Magnesium Glycinate. Is it 100% glycinate? Meaning that it is not ''buffered'' with any other forms of magnesium (oxide being common among other manufactures). Thanks.

Thank you for your interest in our company and this product.

In regards to the question for Mag Glycinate..... Yes -- it is 100% fully-reacted magnesium glycinate.

Hope that helps.
Thank you
Heather Ebright
Information Specialist/Inside Sales Rep.
Metabolic Maintenance Products

Just wanted to share a reply I got from Metabolic Maintenance.
Being that it's a bit expensive it might not be a day to day alternative comapred to doctor's.
Good to know at least.

Anyway, new member here, hi.

[niner]

There's nothing wrong with oxide. Its "poor bioavailability" is a myth.

[balance]

There's nothing wrong with oxide. Its "poor bioavailability" is a myth.

Says the well conducted rat study...

Any new human studies which confirm that?

[DbCooper]

I take this stuff, http://www.k18encapsulations.com its got some research on its research tab. Nothing great but I know I probably need Mg but even more so Id rather not lose my hair, thats the main reason I like the Threonate form.

[Luddist]

I take this stuff, k18encapsulations.com its got some research on its research tab. Nothing great but I know I probably need Mg but even more so Id rather not lose my hair, thats the main reason I like the Threonate form.

Never heard of these guys and I'm automatically wary of a company that advertises a supplement online but doesn't post its actual supplement facts and ingredients. Their price isn't astronomical, assuming the capsules have about 50mg magnesium each, but there are cheaper, more well-known brands selling Magtein out there for about $10 less per bottle.

The research they link to wasn't conducted by them, they're just linking to it.

Edit: tried adding to cart to see if it'd show me product details, just takes me to a Paypal page where they add 2.25 for "sales tax." Nowhere on the site do they list their address. They have no business charging "sales tax" and I think they're just fleecing people. Shady as hell.

Edited by Luddist, 09 August 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[zenman]

I googled k18encapsulations & found no results!
I googled Magnesium L-Threonate and couldnt find this company of the 1st 4 pages.

I am curious how you found this website.

[DbCooper]

I googled k18encapsulations & found no results!
I googled Magnesium L-Threonate and couldnt find this company of the 1st 4 pages.

I am curious how you found this website.

The local CF gym owner peddles that stuff, thats the only place Ive seen it. How I found it was the web address was on the bottle, I copied and pasted a link to this thread onto their website, haven't heard back yet.

Ive used the MagMind and the LEF (cant tell a difference between any of them) brand and all the labels and dosages seem exactly the same plus they all even have that same"Magtein" thing on the bottle.

Anybody taken magnesium glycinate and compared it to the Threonate? Any noticeable cognitive differences?

Ive been through 2 or 3 bottles of this stuff as well http://www.lef.org/V...-Threonate.html

[Climactic]

Ive been through 2 or 3 bottles of this stuff as well http://www.lef.org/V...-Threonate.html

For MgT, on Amazon, Jarrow's is cheaper than LEF.

[Luddist]

Ive been through 2 or 3 bottles of this stuff as well http://www.lef.org/V...-Threonate.html

For MgT, on Amazon, Jarrow's is cheaper than LEF.

Best price on MgT is Source Naturals on Swanson or Vitacost for a 90 cap bottle and on Vitacost or iHerb for a 180 cap bottle.

[balance]

Doctor's Best has a threonate that is more concentrated per capsule, meaning only 2 for 150mg instead of 3 for 144mg

[DbCooper]

Doctor's Best has a threonate that is more concentrated per capsule, meaning only 2 for 150mg instead of 3 for 144mg

Good find, are the capsules big?

[balance]

They are about the same size as Swanson's Acetyl l Carnitine Arginate. It's definitely larger than standard 800mg capsules but no problem for swallowing. However Natural Factors Calcium Citrate 350mg elemental per tablet is a different story, those are tough!

[Colour]

Magnesium L-Threonate is the best form.

Magnesium Glycinate is the best form on a budget. Warning: Magnesium, like many supplements could be a marketing gimmick, I will post here again after my shipment arrives.

WARNING: Albion makes tabs that do not cause your skin to smell bad, etc. Other brands can do weird things, Albion is the best (Buying sources below).

Sources: Here

Buying Sources: Here and Here for Amazon

If anyone knows a bulk supplier of the powder L-Threonate I will carry it in my nootropic store. The powder form is not being sold anywhere.

Albion is the best: Quote: "I have tried other brands of chelated magnesium and this is the only one I have been able to tolerate."

[Atropy]

I take the Source Naturals brand which contains magnesium citrate, taurinate, glycinate and succinate. Supposedly, it has good bioavailability and absorption.

I'm thinking about switching to Country Life, Magnesium/Potassium Aspartate just to try it out:

Target-Mins™ Magnesium (as magnesium aspartate, oxide, citrate, taurinate, alpha-ketoglutarate)
Target-Mins™ Potassium (as potassium aspartate, citrate, alpha-ketoglutarate)

 

How do you find the Source naturals brand?It has great ratings.My only  reason for not trying it is because of the long list of fillers.

 

I currently use Now Magnesium Citrate powder,and I dont really feel any effects from it.

I am considering Thorne Magnesium citramate or Source Naturals Ultra-mag.

[Barley Singer]

I use Magnesium Malate. I know there are more absorbale forms but I have Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrom and Multiple Chemical Sensitivy (and lots of other nasty stuff).

In FMS/CFS, Magnesium and Malic Acid are STRONGLY recomended (and I dislike the combinations they have out there as nearly all of them have added garbag in in them ... and/or cost way too much). I add in Taurine as well as it is one of the 6 that are low in FMS and the taurine makes the Mag absorb better.

Overall this helps to reduce pain, reduce cellular hypoxia issues from exercise and increase mood as well.

Also most people are unaware that many of the common forms of MAG sold are not very bioavailable and just give you the trots.

I could get Citrate, as ir is more bioavailable that malate. However if I did that then I would have to have some other form of Malic acid, and both the Mag and Malic absorb well enough for me as magnesium malate (especiall with the added Taurine).
 

[goosestl]

I was wondering if anyone has found anything recent on the "oxide" issues and the glycinate/oxide "buffering" situation. I have a sensitive GI system so want to avoid magnesium oxide and get a mag supplement with minimal laxative effect (I take the mag as it as historically helped me sleep better). I see the Doctor's Best is not buffered and apparently 100% chelated - but it has lysine and glycine. I tried it and it didn't hit me right and I didn't feel well on it. I tried BulkSupplements mag glycinate bulk powder and had a laxative effect even with smaller amounts. I asked them and they sent me a data sheet showing it was pure mag glycinate so not sure what the issue was there. Has anyone found a mag glycinate that does not have oxide as a buffer? I saw Nutrigold Magnesium Gold (not available on Amazon) which is apparently chelated mag glycinate with dimagnesium malate. Has anyone tried this and does anyone know if this does not have any oxide in it? I've tried citrate forms (and malate/citrate combos) but I think the citrate part was also giving me the runs.  Great site - thanks!

[niner]

If oxide isn't listed in the Supplement Facts box, then it shouldn't be in the product.  Figuring out which formulations do or don't contain oxide should just amount to reading the label.  In theory, anyway.  It's possible that it isn't the oxide that's giving you a problem, but rather one of the additives, excipients, flow agents or binders that might be present.  Those are generally benign, but if you were allergic to magnesium stearate, for example, which is present in many (probably the majority of) capped supplements, it wouldn't be the first case I'd heard of.  (It would be the second, so it's rare, but at least there's precedent.)

[goosestl]

Thanks, Niner, appreciate the response.  I have been following the threads around the web on whether or not oxide is listed or not - and now I am starting to see it listed.  I read there were lawsuits against Albion/BlueBonnet and that much of the glycinate chelates were being derived from Albion so likely many of the other supplements had these issues too.  I didn't think of the other fillers/additives - that is something for me to definitely check into.  I've also been reading about oral mag chloride but haven't read enough to see how that works and whether it would be effective.  My digestion is not great and some of the claims with mag chloride are that in can help gastric acids.  I have to do more research on all of this but really appreciate your reply.

[blood]

I read there were lawsuits against Albion/BlueBonnet and that much of the glycinate chelates were being derived from Albion so likely many of the other supplements had these issues too...

 
Interesting.

From truthinadvertising.org:
 

BLUEBONNET CHELATED MAGNESIUM

In April 2014, a class-action lawsuit was filed against Bluebonnet Nutrition for allegedly deceptively marketing Bluebonnet Chelated Magnesium, a magnesium supplement containing a blend of glycinate and oxide. Specifically, the complaint alleges that the company misleadingly labels the product because it does not list oxide as an ingredient on the product label, in violation of FDA regulations. (Hoffman et al v. Bluebonnet Nutrition Corp. and Albion Laboratories, Inc., Case No. 14-cv-00773, M. D. FL.).

Here is the complaint - Albion doesn't come out of this looking good:
 

 Hoffman-v.-Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Corp.-complaint-.pdf   940.4KB   3 downloads

... Plaintiff Andrew Hoffman, by and through his counsel, respectfully files this Class Action Complaint on behalf of himself and a class or similarly-situated individuals who purchased Magnesium Bisglycinate Chelate Buffered (the -Product-) from Bluebonnet Nutrition Corp., and Albion Laboratories. Inc...

... In order to navigate the vast array of vitamin and mineral products available on the market today,consumers rely on honest and accurate labels. Unfortunately, some companies attempt to maximize their profits by mislabeling their supplements in order to trick consumers into paying a price premium for an inferior product. Defendants are two such companies...

... In an effort to cut costs while maintaining demand, Defendants blend Glycinate with Oxide but do not list Oxide as an ingredient anywhere on the Product label. They do, however, list Glycinate as an ingredient on the "Supplement Facts" panel. This enables Defendants to charge a price premium for the Product by charging the same price for the Product as would be charged for Glycinate...

Under the false impression that Defendants' Product is Glycinate, tens of thousands of consumers have paid a price premium for an inferior form of Magnesium, thereby padding Defendants' pockets with undeserved profits. This suit seeks redress on behalf of consumers who paid a price premium for the Product under the reasonable but mistaken belief that it was Magnesium Glycinate....

... Plaintiff Andrew Hoffman resides in Clearwater Florida. In or around December 2013, Mr. Hoffman purchased a bottle of Defendants' Product. Were it not for Defendants' unfair and deceptive practices, Plaintiff and the Class would not have purchased Defendants' Product or paid a price premium to purchase it. If Defendants' Product did in fact provide Magnesium Glycinate as promised rather than also containing Magnesium Oxide, Plaintiff would likely continue to purchase the Product and pay the price premium to purchase it...

... Defendant Bluebonnet Nutrition Corp. ("Bluebonnet") is a Texas corporation headquartered at 12915 Dairy Ashford, Sugar Land, TX 77478. Bluebonnet markets and sells nutrition supplements, including the Product, worldwide...

... Defendant Albion Laboratories, Inc. ("Albion") is a Utah corporation headquartered at 101 N. Main Street, Clearfield, Utah 84015. Albion manufactures and supplies mineral amino acid chelate nutrition to industries worldwide. Pursuant to an agreement with Bluebonnet, Albion was able to control the nature and content of the Product's label...

... Unsurprisingly, consumers believe Glycinate is superior to Oxide....

... In addition to increased consumer demand, Glycinateis also more expensive because it is more costly to manufacture. Glycinate is a "chelated" form of Magnesium, which means it is combined with another substance to increase absorption. To chelate its Magnesium Glycinate, Albion uses a six-stage chelation process described in a promotional video on Albion's homepage. The machinery and expertise required to manufacture Glycinate is very expensive. Oxide is not chelated, and is therefore far less costly to manufacture...

... To reduce these costs while maintaining consumer demand, Albion blended Oxide with Glycinate. Albion's Product Data Sheet lists Magnesium Glycinate and Magnesium Oxide as ingredients. Yet the labelingon Bluebonnet's final product, a label that is at least in part controlled by Albion, lists Glycinate but entirely omits Oxide

... To reduce these costs while maintaining consumer demand, Albion blended Oxide with Glycinate. Albion's Product Data Sheet lists Magnesium Glycinate and Magnesium Oxide as ingredients. Yet the labelingbon Bluebonnet's final product, a label that is at least in part controlled by Albion, lists Glycinate but entirely omits Oxide...

... Defendants therefore earn a substantial additional profit by knowingly and intentionally misleading consumers into believing that the Product is Glycinate ...

... Moreover, Defendants' deceptive labeling practice defies the FDA's explicit instructions... Defendants must abide by the labeling requirements set forth in 21 C.F.R. 101.36...

... Although Defendants do list Magnesium, they only list Magnesium Glycinate, not Magnesium Oxide. This violates Section 101.36(d), which requires "source ingredients" to be disclosed either in the nutrition label or "outside and immediately below the nutrition label"...

... Even if Defendants' Product were deemed a "proprietary blend", pursuant to Section 101.36©(2), each ingredient must nevertheless be listed in descending order of predominance by weight, in accordance with Section 101.36(b)(3). Thus, Defendants may not circumvent the FDA's disclosure requirements by simply calling the Product "proprietary." In fact, Albion must be aware of this disclosure requirement, as it discloses all of the ingredients of a proprietary blend contained in prostate health supplement called Natural Prostate Health, for which Albion supplies some of the underlying ingredients...

... Defendants therefore knowingly and intentionally hide the fact that the Product contains Oxide so they can turn an additional profit at the consumer's expense...

... Plaintiff conducted additional research on the Product and discovered that Swanson was the only company that discloses the fact that its similar product contains Magnesium Oxide, and only in the "other ingredients" section below the more prominent "Supplement Facts" label, which lists Magnesium Glycinate. See Swanson Ultra Albion Chelated Magnesium Glycinate Supplement Facts below...

... Through his inquiries, Plaintiff discovered that Albion dictates the labeling to its suppliers by way of a licensing agreement. A representative from one of Albion's retailers told Plaintiff that they were following Albion's guidelines by not listing Magnesium Oxide as an ingredient, stating "Albion did review, direct, and approve the current content of our label." Moreover, the representative stated that Albion's review was pursuant to "contractual agreements." It is therefore apparent that Albion exercises control over the Product's labeling, and either explicitly or implicitly instructs its retailers not to disclose Magnesium Oxide...

... In fact, another magnesium retailer has acknowledged that Magnesium Oxide should have been listed as an ingredient in its products, and apologized for the mislabeling... , Nuvari further stated in an email to Plaintiff's counsel that "[w]e've contacted and spoken with Albion more than once about their Buffered Magnesium Bisglycinate Chelate and how it should be labeled. They clearly told us that the labeling is fine the way it is; that it doesn't need to mention Magnesium Oxide; and that it's been sold that way for 20 years"...

... Defendants' labeling and pricing scheme constitutes a deceptive act because it is a representation, omission, or practice that that is likely to mislead a consumer acting reasonably under the circumstances, to the consumer's detriment. Defendants represent that the Product contains Magnesium Glycinate but omit the fact that it also contains Magnesium Oxide. This mislabeling practice is likely to mislead a consumer acting reasonably under the circumstances into believing that the Product is Magnesium Glycinate. As a result of this reasonable but erroneous belief,tens of thousands of consumers have paid and continue to pay an unjustified price premium for Defendants' Product...

... Defendants' labeling and pricing scheme constitutes an unfair practice because it offends established public policy and is immoral,unethical,oppressive,unscrupulous or substantially injurious to consumers. By representing that the Product contains Magnesium Glycinate without Magnesium Oxide, Defendants charge an immoral, unethical, oppressive, and unscrupulous price premium that is substantially injurious to consumers...

... DEMAND FOR TRIAL BY JURY...

Edited by blood, 02 November 2014 - 10:04 AM.

[rcol1441]

Good Lord, I can't believe someone would file a lawsuit over this, let alone a $5,000,000 suit.  Other than the key fact that Bluebonnet did not list Mag Oxide on the label, the document is full of opinion, e.g., regarding the poor absorbability of Mag Oxide or the benefits of chelation.  The fact that I tend to personally believe much of it doesn't change the fact that it's mostly opinion. Heck, if huge US Medical Associations can't come to a consensus on the implications of numerous *gigantic* multi-national, long-term RCTs of hypertension and cholesterol treatments, and the guidelines that should come out of these, how is any court (a jury??) supposed to draw conclusions based on the findings and assertions of small-scale magnesium absorption studies or "expert advice" in the Huffington Post (the same people who give expert advice on, say, what cologne will have women begging you to make love to you)?

 

Heck, it's now been over 4 years since I emailed Albion asking what "buffered" meant, and they quickly replied that it meant Magnesium Oxide was mixed in with the Glycinate as a "buffer."  That's hardly trying to keep it under tight wraps.  (Bluebonnet never replied to my queries, and I checked the spam folder just in case...)

 

Make no mistake, I was, and am, quite ticked off about the fact that oxide wasn't listed on the label.  But IMO the lawsuit is beyond the pale.  I'm just glad they started listing it.  Now, what I *could* see is something like a class action against Teva, the large generic drug manufacturer, for continuing to manufacture a non-equivalent version of the antidepressant Wellbutrin XL for years after ConsumerLab demonstrated the non-equivalence.  THAT could have led to substantial hardships, maybe even suicide.

Edited by rcol1441, 03 November 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[goosestl]

For me the issue was two-fold - one was the issue with non-disclosure but the other just as important one was that I was using mag for sleep and digestive issues and glycinate was supposed to be the easiest on the GI system if you know what i mean.  The capsules were working but over the past year I noticed GI issues - not sure if there was a fluctuation in the formula (more oxide?). i just started with liquid "ionic" zinc and am starting with a very low amount (5-10) drops and building up from there.  it definitely works as i can tell the effect on my sleep - we'll see how it progresses as I up the dosage.  Also started liquid zinc as well as I was never able to tolerate the zinc capsules even if I emptied some out (just made me irritable).  Hopefully with these liquid forms I can get them assimilated more easily and get their benefits.

[Transcender]

 

I have a Q regarding your Magnesium Glycinate. Is it 100% glycinate? Meaning that it is not ''buffered'' with any other forms of magnesium (oxide being common among other manufactures). Thanks.

Thank you for your interest in our company and this product.

In regards to the question for Mag Glycinate..... Yes -- it is 100% fully-reacted magnesium glycinate.

Hope that helps.
Thank you
Heather Ebright
Information Specialist/Inside Sales Rep.
Metabolic Maintenance Products

Just wanted to share a reply I got from Metabolic Maintenance.
Being that it's a bit expensive it might not be a day to day alternative comapred to doctor's.
Good to know at least.

Anyway, new member here, hi.

 

 

I had decided to buy Pure Encapsulations Magnesium Glycinate, but to my surprise I discovered that it can't be shipped to my country neither from iHerb, Vitacost nor Amazon. I sent en email to Pure Encapsulations and they replied that they sell only directly to health practitioners and don't want mass marketers to sell their products. They said they can't point me to any distributor. So, since my money is not as good as anyone else's, I tried to find another magnesium glycinate product with as little fillers as possible.

 

I found Metabolic Maintenance Magnesium Glycinate to be very similar to Pure Encapsulation's product - vegetarian cellulose capsule, gluten and excipient-free, magnesium (as magnesium glycinate) 125 mg, vitamin C (as ascorbyl palmitate) 10 mg - as opposed to PE MG's magnesium (as magnesium glycinate) 120 mg, ascorbyl palmitate (fat-soluble vitamin C) 10 mg per capsule. MM is even slightly more expensive on iHerb (35.00 $) than PE (31.30 $) for 180 capsules.

 

Can anyone confirm Metabolic Maintenance's magnesium glycinate is a good product and a decent substitute to Pure Encapsulations MG as it doesn't have many reviews on iHerb and Amazon? Or is there a better alternative?

Edited by Transcender, 09 November 2014 - 11:08 AM.

[neuralis]

I'm currently getting good results from Mag. Citrate. It's almost as effective as L-Threonate, which is the best Mag supplement IME, tho not even half as pricey. Haven't had any laxative issues either, even with doses of 5 grams and above.

[message]

Any consensus on what exact product to buy and how much to take daily?

Looking for something in pill form for an older family member....