50 replies to this topic

[Benae]

Over in the Supplementation section lots of members are talking about avoiding niacinamide/nicotinamide like the plague as, and I quote, "it has been proven to be a potent INHIBITOR or SIRT1, one of the key genes related to aging". Yet, I am seeing niacinamide in a lot of skin care products. Also, Dr. Leslie Baumann author of The Skin Type Solution and chief of the Division of Cosmetic Dermatology at the University of Miami School of Medicine states:

"There aren't a lot of ingredients that I unequivocally recommend to just about every skin type - but topical niacinamide is one of 'em!"

Also:

D. L. Bissett, K. Miyamoto, P. Sun, J. Li, C. A. Berge (2004) Topical niacinamide reduces yellowing, wrinkling, red blotchiness, and hyperpigmented spots in aging facial skin¹
International Journal of Cosmetic Science 26 (5) , 231–238 doi:10.1111/j.1467-2494.2004.00228.x
Previous clinical testing of topical niacinamide (vitamin B3) has revealed a broad array of improvements in the appearance of aging facial skin. The study reported here was done to confirm some of those previous observations and to evaluate additional end points such as skin anti-yellowing. Caucasian female subjects (n = 50, aged 40–60 years) participated in a 12-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled, split-face, left–right randomized clinical study assessing two topical products: moisturizer control product versus the same moisturizer product containing 5% niacinamide. Niacinamide was well tolerated by the skin and provided significant improvements versus control in end points evaluated previously: fine lines/wrinkles, hyperpigmentation spots, texture, and red blotchiness. In addition, skin yellowing (sallowness) versus control was significantly improved. The mechanism by which this array of benefits is achieved with niacinamide is discussed.

Sirtuins or niacinamide? Comments?

[Marcsandi]

I certainly hope the topical use of niacinamide is beneficial. I've been using a sunscreen by Nia24 that contains fat-soluble niacin (myristyl nicotinate) in the hope of having a stronger skin barrier while using retin-A Micro (per a study the inventors conducted showing better tolerance while using products containing this ingredient). I have only read positive things about the ingredient (except for here of course). So I'm interested in reading, as well, what the thoughts are on this subject.

[Fredrik]

I certainly hope the topical use of niacinamide is beneficial. I've been using a sunscreen by Nia24 that contains fat-soluble niacin (myristyl nicotinate) in the hope of having a stronger skin barrier while using retin-A Micro (per a study the inventors conducted showing better tolerance while using products containing this ingredient). I have only read positive things about the ingredient (except for here of course). So I'm interested in reading, as well, what the thoughts are on this subject.

I think you should keep using Nia24, it´s not the same thing as niacinamide...it contains niacin which apparently don´t inhibit SIRT1 (but what SIRT1 means with regard to skin health is just hypothesis at this stage). There´s a PDF-paper on their site that explains the difference between their fat-soluble niacin and, for example, Procter & Gambles (Olay) niacinamide.

[Gerald W. Gaston]

I certainly hope the topical use of niacinamide is beneficial. I've been using a sunscreen by Nia24 that contains fat-soluble niacin (myristyl nicotinate) in the hope of having a stronger skin barrier while using retin-A Micro (per a study the inventors conducted showing better tolerance while using products containing this ingredient). I have only read positive things about the ingredient (except for here of course). So I'm interested in reading, as well, what the thoughts are on this subject.

Here is one from Dr. Myron K. Jacobson and Dr. Elaine L. Jacobson (as you mentioned done by the founders of Nia 24) on pubmed:

PMID: 17927576 - Effect of myristyl nicotinate on retinoic acid therapy for facial photodamage

[Marcsandi]

I certainly hope the topical use of niacinamide is beneficial. I've been using a sunscreen by Nia24 that contains fat-soluble niacin (myristyl nicotinate) in the hope of having a stronger skin barrier while using retin-A Micro (per a study the inventors conducted showing better tolerance while using products containing this ingredient). I have only read positive things about the ingredient (except for here of course). So I'm interested in reading, as well, what the thoughts are on this subject.

Here is one from Dr. Myron K. Jacobson and Dr. Elaine L. Jacobson (as you mentioned done by the founders of Nia 24) on pubmed:

PMID: 17927576 - Effect of myristyl nicotinate on retinoic acid therapy for facial photodamage

Thank you, that's the one I don't necessarily love the sunscreen, as it's a bit whitening for me and though it goes on matte, my oily skin eats through all of that, but I was hoping to pack a two-in-one punch with the MN and sunscreen protection. I can't say whether it's helped with my tolerance to RAM, as I use it every other night and use the sunscreen/MN product only 2-3 times per week. I suppose I'm not a very good test subject, haha. I juggle sunscreens based on how I'm feeling or what I'm trying to use up. But I digress

[edward]

I avoid topical Niacinamide, just like dietary. It will be absorbed and will inhibit SIRT1 in surrounding tissues by altering the NAD/NAD+ ratio. It may have other positive effects like mitigating sun damage or what have you but that will not change the bottom line of inhibiting SIRT1. Your skin may look fine in the short run but in the long term its a pro aging nutrient.

[Kingston]

hmm I use products with niacinamide bc of all the great benefits (barrier function, increase elasticity and moisture levels in skin, stimulate collagen production, decrease hyperpigmentation and inflammation etc),After learning that it inhibits SIRT1 and may be proaging I looked up some info via Pubmed and articles on the internet and found some interesting information.

On pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

Article: "Nicotinamide extends replicative lifespan of human cells"

"We found that an ongoing application of nicotinamide to normal human fibroblasts not only attenuated expression of the aging phenotype but also increased their replicative lifespan, causing a greater than 1.6-fold increase in the number of population doublings. Although nicotinamide by itself does not act as an antioxidant, the cells cultured in the presence of nicotinamide exhibited reduced levels of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and oxidative damage products associated with cellular senescence, and a decelerated telomere shortening rate without a detectable increase in telomerase activity. Furthermore, in the treated cells growing beyond the original Hayflick limit, the levels of p53, p21WAF1, and phospho-Rb proteins were similar to those in actively proliferating cells. The nicotinamide treatment caused a decrease in ATP levels, which was stably maintained until the delayed senescence point. Nicotinamide-treated cells also maintained high mitochondrial membrane potential but a lower respiration rate and superoxide anion level. Taken together, in contrast to its demonstrated pro-aging effect in yeast, nicotinamide extends the lifespan of human fibroblasts, possibly through reduction in mitochondrial activity and ROS production."

In addition in the article: Niacinamide: Silencing the Aging Gene ( http://www.vrp.com/a...=art397&zTYPE=2 )

They state that Niacinamde as a nutrient enhances Sir2p to slow and reverse the aging process.

"Recent research has identified genes that influence longevity. In particular, a gene labeled, Sir2, for silent information regulator 2, has been shown to produce a protein, Sir2p, that extends cell life. Recent research has shown that Sir2p is a NAD-dependent histone deacetylase that connects metabolism, gene silencing, and cellular life extension (Imai, et.al. 2000). Niacinamide, by increasing NAD, enhances Sir2p activity.

Caloric restricted diets have long been known for their ability to extend the lifespan by slowing metabolism. NAD is essential in cellular metabolism. It was proposed by
MIT researchers that by slowing metabolism NAD is spared, thereby enhancing Sir2p activity. Increasing intracellular NAD not only mimics the metabolic benefits of calorie restricted diets, but also helps maintain a balance of silent and active genes. Nutritional supplementation with niacinamide, as mentioned earlier, is an effective way to increase intracellular NAD levels."

Thoughts???

[missminni]

I avoid topical Niacinamide, just like dietary. It will be absorbed and will inhibit SIRT1 in surrounding tissues by altering the NAD/NAD+ ratio. It may have other positive effects like mitigating sun damage or what have you but that will not change the bottom line of inhibiting SIRT1. Your skin may look fine in the short run but in the long term its a pro aging nutrient.

I have a huge container of Niacinmide that I haven't taken because of the conflict with resveratrol. I had no idea it
was used topically for skin. I would love to make use of it and putting it in a skin preparation would be a great way to use it.
Are you saying that absorption through the skin will counteract Resveratrol taken internally?

[Kingston]

missminni,

I think it would be a good idea to use niacinamide for your skin. Niacinamide is a clinically proven ingredient that has legit research to back up many of its claims. IMO a moisturizer with niacinamde along with sunscreen, retinoids, and antioxidants comprise the best anti-aging skin care regimen. I too am also curious to learn more about the inhibition of sirtuins by niacinamide, but in the mean time I've listed all the reasons why niacinamide is beneficial and a favorite of mine.

1) Effective moisturizer

2) Treats inflammation

3) Helps repair DNA damage caused by UVR and can lessen UVR-induced erythema (E. Jacobson, et al: Optimizing the energy status of skin cells during solar radiation:J. Photochem.
Photobiol.:2001: 63: pp 141-147)

4) Improves skin firmness, skin tone, fine lines, and wrinkles (P.K. Farris, MD: Cosmeceuticals. A Review of the Science Behind the Claims: Cosmetic
Dermatology: March 2003: Vol. 16: No 3: pp 59-66)

5) It helps skin resist photodamage and delays onset of certain types of photodamage

6) Reduces yellowing, wrinkling, red blotchiness, and hyperpigmentation (Bissett DL, Miyamoto K, Sun P, Li J, Berge CA.)

7) Stimulates synthesis of collagen, involoucrin, filigrn and keratin (in vitro) (British Journal of Dermatology:

2000: 143: pp 524 -531)

8) Increases biosynthesis of ceramides and other strateum corneum lipids to improve skin barrier (in vivo) (British Journal of Dermatology:

2000: 143: pp 524 -531)

9) Decrease hyperpigmentation and increase skin lightness (T. Hakozaki, et al: The effect of niacinamide on reducing cutaneous pigmentation and suppression

of melanosome transfer: British Journal of Dermatology:2002:147:pp 20-31)

10) enhances cutaneous exfoliation of the skin (P .K. Farris, MD: Cosmeceuticals. A Review of the Science Behind the Claims: Cosmetic
Dermatology: March 2003: Vol. 16: No 3: pp 59-66)

Its a favorite ingredient of Dr. Baumann and is on Paula Begoun's A-list of anti-aging ingredients.

Hope this helps!

Edited by Kingston, 17 June 2008 - 04:06 AM.

[missminni]

[quote name='Kingston' date='16-Jun 2008, 10:59 PM' post='245931']
[font="Times New Roman"]missminni,

I think it would be a good idea to use niacinamide for your skin. Niacinamide is a clinically proven ingredient that has legit research to back up many of its claims. IMO a moisturizer with niacinamde along with sunscreen, retinoids, and antioxidants comprise the best anti-aging skin care regimen. I too am also curious to learn more about the inhibition of sirtuins by niacinamide, but in the mean time I've listed all the reasons why niacinamide is beneficial and a favorite of mine.

Thanks! I actually put it in my skin oil last night. I use a vit E oil as a base and add pregnenolone, dhea and
seakelp...and now niacinamide. How much do you use? I can't imagine that it will negate the benefits of taking Resveratrol
internally....would it?

[edward49]

[font="Times New Roman"]missminni,

I think it would be a good idea to use niacinamide for your skin. Niacinamide is a clinically proven ingredient that has legit research to back up many of its claims. IMO a moisturizer with niacinamde along with sunscreen, retinoids, and antioxidants comprise the best anti-aging skin care regimen. I too am also curious to learn more about the inhibition of sirtuins by niacinamide, but in the mean time I've listed all the reasons why niacinamide is beneficial and a favorite of mine.

Thanks! I actually put it in my skin oil last night. I use a vit E oil as a base and add pregnenolone, dhea and
seakelp...and now niacinamide. How much do you use? I can't imagine that it will negate the benefits of taking Resveratrol
internally....would it?

In reply to how much niacinamide to use, Uni studies have shown that 4-5% concentration of niacinamide used topically will get rid of acne and blemishes, reduce inflammation and redness, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, reduce yellowing and hyperpigmentation, moisturize, repair UVR damaged DNA, lighten skin and generally give the skin a younger "glow". Niacinamide is readily soluble in water so you can mix about 1.1 grams of your Niacinamide powder per ounce of aloe vera gel or cream base which will give you approximately 4% Niacinamide.

If you want an easier, less messy solution, you can just buy an already made up 4% niacinamide cream

(edited by Matthias: link removed)

Edited by Matthias, 26 February 2009 - 11:59 AM.

[Eva Victoria]

Here is the study from P&G.

Attached Files

•  PG_Niancinamide_FINAL_090105.pdf   377.38KB   1560 downloads

[JLL]

So... is there a way to make a homemade topical from niacinamide tablets (not gelcaps)?

[immortali457]

So... is there a way to make a homemade topical from niacinamide tablets (not gelcaps)?

It would most likely have fillers which would not be good.

Edited by immortali457, 10 March 2009 - 12:24 AM.

[JLL]

So... is there a way to make a homemade topical from niacinamide tablets (not gelcaps)?

It would most likely have fillers which would not be good.

Mine have got dibasic calcium phosphate, microcrystalline cellulose, stearic acid, and colloidal silicon dioxide. Any of them bad for the skin?

[sdxl]

Why don't you get some pure niacinamide?

[missminni]

Why don't you get some pure niacinamide?

You can get it very inexpensively as a powder from Beyond A Century and mix it in a moisturzer cream.

[JLL]

Because I have bottle of 100mg niacinamide tablets that I don't know what to do with. After reading the thread on niacinamide, I'm not sure whether taking it orally is a good idea.

[Eva Victoria]

So... is there a way to make a homemade topical from niacinamide tablets (not gelcaps)?

It would most likely have fillers which would not be good.

Mine have got dibasic calcium phosphate, microcrystalline cellulose, stearic acid, and colloidal silicon dioxide. Any of them bad for the skin?

Nope. But it might propose a challenge how to incorporate it into existing products. Good luck with that!

[JLL]

So... is there a way to make a homemade topical from niacinamide tablets (not gelcaps)?

It would most likely have fillers which would not be good.

Mine have got dibasic calcium phosphate, microcrystalline cellulose, stearic acid, and colloidal silicon dioxide. Any of them bad for the skin?

Nope. But it might propose a challenge how to incorporate it into existing products. Good luck with that!

Thanks. I read that niacinamide is the only water-soluble substance in the tablet, so I crushed 10 tablets into 2 cl of water and let them dissolve. I then filtered it through a coffee filter, and now I have something that is possibly 5% niacinamide water. If I just splash it on my face, will the niacinamide be absorbed? I don't really have a grasp of what kind of molecules can penetrate the skin and what can't. Is it possible to mix the water with skin creams or gels?

[FunkOdyssey]

I wouldn't want to mess around with something homemade here. Does anyone know of any good niacinamide containing creams or moisturizers, that preferably incorporate other antioxidants / useful ingredients?

[JLL]

I wouldn't want to mess around with something homemade here. Does anyone know of any good niacinamide containing creams or moisturizers, that preferably incorporate other antioxidants / useful ingredients?

A lot of people seem to like Metazene. Haven't tried it myself.

[Eva Victoria]

So... is there a way to make a homemade topical from niacinamide tablets (not gelcaps)?

It would most likely have fillers which would not be good.

Mine have got dibasic calcium phosphate, microcrystalline cellulose, stearic acid, and colloidal silicon dioxide. Any of them bad for the skin?

Nope. But it might propose a challenge how to incorporate it into existing products. Good luck with that!

Thanks. I read that niacinamide is the only water-soluble substance in the tablet, so I crushed 10 tablets into 2 cl of water and let them dissolve. I then filtered it through a coffee filter, and now I have something that is possibly 5% niacinamide water. If I just splash it on my face, will the niacinamide be absorbed? I don't really have a grasp of what kind of molecules can penetrate the skin and what can't. Is it possible to mix the water with skin creams or gels?

It cannot penetrate into your skin without any carrier agent.

If you mix water into any cream the following happens:
1. Water is not sterile: cream can be abase bacterial growth that can lead to infection on the skin.
2. You will only dillute your existing cream destroying its carefully proportioned balance.

What I would do:
I would get hold of Niacinamide powder (USP grade) and mix that directly into your creme 8which is water based) at 2% concentration and after 2-3 weeks increase it to 4%.

[FunkOdyssey]

Eva: do you consider metazene to be a good niacinamide product? Aloe vera gel is used as the carrier for the niacinamide, I assume this is an effective delivery method?

[Eva Victoria]

I wouldn't want to mess around with something homemade here. Does anyone know of any good niacinamide containing creams or moisturizers, that preferably incorporate other antioxidants / useful ingredients?

Olay of Ulay has a line: Regenerist that is based on Niacinamide in higher concentration (please see the previously attached document from P&G). The serum also contains: Di-Peptide 3, Sodium Ascorbic Acid, Vit.E.
It is light and does not contain much fragrance. In the US it is possible to buy the day creme (Spf15) without fragrance.

http://www.olay.com/...rand=regenerist

[JLL]

It cannot penetrate into your skin without any carrier agent.

If you mix water into any cream the following happens:
1. Water is not sterile: cream can be abase bacterial growth that can lead to infection on the skin.
2. You will only dillute your existing cream destroying its carefully proportioned balance.

What I would do:
I would get hold of Niacinamide powder (USP grade) and mix that directly into your creme 8which is water based) at 2% concentration and after 2-3 weeks increase it to 4%.

Thanks for the reply. Just as an experiment, I mixed a small amount of carrageenan into the liquid and it turned into a very appliable gel. Would it still need some kind of carrier agent? Would something like sesame oil or emu oil work?

What about mixing niacinamide water with skinceuticals ce + ferulic acid?

Niacinamide powder is of course a good idea, but I'm just trying to find a use for the tablets that I so foolishly purchased

[Eva Victoria]

Eva: do you consider metazene to be a good niacinamide product? Aloe vera gel is used as the carrier for the niacinamide, I assume this is an effective delivery method?

I don't know much about this product since it is only available in the US (as far as I know).
Aloe Vera gel is most likely used in this product for its anti-inflammatory ability. Niacinamide in so high concentration can make the skin dry, flaky and irritated esp. in the beginning of the treatment.

If you can send me the exact ingredient list I'll be able to answer your question more precisely.

[Eva Victoria]

Jill, please see my answer in blue:
quote name='JLL' date='12-Mar 2009, 05:35 PM' post='306803'
quote name='Eva Victoria' post='306789' date='12-Mar 2009, 10:39 AM'It cannot penetrate into your skin without any carrier agent.

If you mix water into any cream the following happens:
1. Water is not sterile: cream can be abase bacterial growth that can lead to infection on the skin.
2. You will only dillute your existing cream destroying its carefully proportioned balance.

What I would do:
I would get hold of Niacinamide powder (USP grade) and mix that directly into your creme 8which is water based) at 2% concentration and after 2-3 weeks increase it to 4%.

Thanks for the reply. Just as an experiment, I mixed a small amount of carrageenan into the liquid and it turned into a very appliable gel. Would it still need some kind of carrier agent? Would something like sesame oil or emu oil work?

Oils are moisturizing agents. Not carriers of actives. They have too large molecules to be able to penetrate into the skin.

What about mixing niacinamide water with skinceuticals ce + ferulic acid?

As I wrote before:
If you mix water into any cream/ready product the following happens:
1. Water is not sterile: product can be a base for bacterial growth that can lead to infection on the skin.
2. You will only dilute your existing cream destroying its carefully proportioned balance.

And if you don't have a preservative you'll definitely going to destroy the existing product plus your skin.
Besides you should only use fresh sterile water and a broad specter preservative system that is effective against bacteria and fungi.

Niacinamide powder is of course a good idea, but I'm just trying to find a use for the tablets that I so foolishly purchased

[JLL]

So all this talk about "carrier oils" is false? What kind of carrier agents have small enough molecules to penetrate into the skin?

[Eva Victoria]

So all this talk about "carrier oils" is false? What kind of carrier agents have small enough molecules to penetrate into the skin?

There are different ways to ensure that the active ingredient reaches its target (skin cells in deeper layers of the Epidermis). It can be different encapsulation techniques of the active ingredient and also using carriers for actives like Propylene Glycol (which is also a good humectant).

Oils can be good agents for film-forming on the surface of the skin. Hence protecting the skin's inner moisture (mineral-oil, vegetable oils etc). Or also silicone oils that form a protecting film on the surface of the skin for protection of moisture, or more importantly for good film-forming for better distribution of sunscreen agents on the surface of the skin.

These oils (esp. silicone) are often used to have delayed delivery of actives in the case of possibility of irritation. (Like Retinol or Niacinamide over 2% concentration or chemical sunscreens).