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Folic Acid: Stick to the RDA


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#31 Kevnzworld

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

Just bumping this up to check if there is any new thinking re folic acid supplementation to lower homocysteine.

I experimented few years ago with the typical supplementation (was 1450 mcg B12 (o/w 1000 mcg metylcobalamin), 85 mg B6, 1600 mcg of folic acid, 2000 mg of TMG) and succeeded to lower homocysteine of about 23% (13-->10 mcmol/l with ref range <16). Since I stopped (for the very reasons given in this thread) I have been ranging 13.0-13.5 (ref. range <16 or <15)

Btw, is there an optimum value for homocysteine you should strive for? I recollect some, I guess quite arbitrarily, set it to 7.5 or 8 (when range is 0-15).


I found that 1000 mcg of 5- methyl folate and sublingual methylcobalamin was effective in lowering my homocysteine levels from 12 to 8. The B12 is necessary because I take metformin.
I avoid folic acid for the reasons stated in this thread, which is one of the reasons I don't take a multi vitamin.
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#32 albedo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

Thank you Kenzworld for your last post. I also used 5- methyl folate and sublingual methylcobalamin w/o much success. Still thinking how to reduce my homocysteine, now up to 14 (<16). If you are interested I just reactivated an interesting thread HERE which you might know already.

Incidentally, I also found interesting the following article clarifying the different forms of folate we often encounter:

L-Methylfolate, Methylfolate, 5-MTHF,L-5-MTHF. What is the Difference!?
http://mthfr.net/l-m...thf/2012/04/05/

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#33 kismet

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:37 PM

All:

[...]

-Michael


Simply put: no risk, no benefit in recent analyses (1, 2). An earlier (now outdated?) meta-analysis suggested increased risk of cancer, I'll post it later.

Almost the same holds true for CVD. Folic acid's useless.

1. Lancet. 2013 Mar 23;381(9871):1029-36.
Effects of folic acid supplementation on overall and site-specific cancer incidence during the randomised trials: meta-analyses of data on 50,000 individuals.
Vollset et al.

2.
Int J Cancer. 2013 Sep 1;133(5):1033-41. doi: 10.1002/ijc.28038. Epub 2013 Feb 15.
Folic acid supplementation and cancer risk: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.
Qin X, Cui Y, Shen L, Sun N, Zhang Y, Li J, Xu X, Wang B, Xu X, Huo Y, Wang X.

Edited by kismet, 28 October 2013 - 09:39 PM.

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#34 mikeinnaples

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:21 PM

Folic acid is useless and can be dangerous....

5- methyl folate on the other hand has its uses.

#35 kismet

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:36 PM

Perhaps some time I can read the full papers:

"Our analyses suggest that cancer incidences were higher in the folic acid-supplemented groups than the non-folic acid-supplemented groups (relative risk=1.21 [95% confidence interval: 1.05-1.39]). Folic acid-supplementation trials should be performed with careful monitoring of cancer incidence"

Cancer Epidemiol. 2012 Feb;36(1):78-81. doi: 10.1016/j.canep.2011.05.003. Epub 2011 Oct 21.
Meta-analysis of cancer risk in folic acid supplementation trials.
Baggott JE, Oster RA, Tamura T.

#36 albedo

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:16 AM

I found this abstract and I would like to have access to the full study. It looks interesting and maybe points to the necessity to regularly blood test for the folate status.

 

Folate intake and the risk of prostate cancer: a systematic review and meta-analysis.

 

Abstract

There is conflicting evidence regarding the role of folate on the risk of developing prostate cancer. We performed a systematic review and quantitative meta-analysis of folate blood levels and folate intake, and the risk of prostate cancer. Four electronic databases (Medline, PubMed, Embase and Current Contents Connect) were searched to 11 October 2013, with no language restrictions for observational studies that measured folate intake or blood levels and the risk of prostate cancer. Pooled odds ratios (ORs) and 95% confidence intervals (95% CIs) were calculated using a random effects model. The dietary folate meta-analysis comprising 11 studies with 15 336 cases and a total sample size of 146 782 found no statistically significant association with prostate cancer, with an OR of 0.97 (95% CI 0.89-1.06). The total folate meta-analysis comprising of 5 studies with 7114 cases and a total sample size of 93 781 also found no statistically significant association with prostate cancer, with an OR of 0.99 (95% CI 0.82-1.19). The blood folate meta-analysis comprising of seven studies with 6122 cases and a total sample size of 10 232 found an increased risk of prostate cancer with high blood folate levels, with an OR of 1.43 (95% CI 1.06-1.93). There was significant heterogeneity (I(2)=79.5%, P<0.01). Removal of an outlier study removed the heterogeneity (I(2)=0.0%, P=0.54) and the association remained significant with an OR of 1.14 (95% CI 1.02-1.28). Dietary and total folate intake do not appear to be significantly associated with the risk of prostate cancer. High blood folate levels are associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer. These conclusions are limited by the predominance of included studies originating from developed countries with mostly Caucasian populations. Further research in populations with a high prevalence of non-Caucasian backgrounds is needed.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....act&holding=npg

 

 



#37 Darryl

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 07:51 PM

There is some interesting work on 5-methyltetrahydrofolate as a potent quencher of peroxynitrite, which plays a major role in the ischemia/reperfusion injury of strokes & heart attacks. The most remarkable thing about the Moens et al study below was that if rats were injected with high dose folic acid 10 minutes after the onset of experimental ischemia, their hearts were largely protected. While humans don't convert folic acid to THF efficiently, I'd love to see a trial in which emergency medical personnel were issued autoinjectors with follinic acid, to see if disability & mortality from strokes & heart attacks could be reduced.

 

Rezk, B. M., Haenen, G. R., van der Vijgh, W. J., & Bast, A. (2003). Tetrahydrofolate and 5-methyltetrahydrofolate are folates with high antioxidant activity. Identification of the antioxidant pharmacophoreFEBS letters555(3), 601-605.

Szabó, C., Ischiropoulos, H., & Radi, R. (2007). Peroxynitrite: biochemistry, pathophysiology and development of therapeuticsNature Reviews Drug Discovery6(8), 662-680.

Moens, A. L., Champion, H. C., Claeys, M. J., Tavazzi, B., Kaminski, P. M., Wolin, M. S., ... & Kass, D. A. (2008). High-dose folic acid pretreatment blunts cardiac dysfunction during ischemia coupled to maintenance of high-energy phosphates and reduces postreperfusion injuryCirculation117(14), 1810-

Tian, R., & Ingwall, J. S. (2008). How does folic acid cure heart attacks?.Circulation117(14), 1772-1774.

Bailey, S. W., & Ayling, J. E. (2009). The extremely slow and variable activity of dihydrofolate reductase in human liver and its implications for high folic acid intakeProceedings of the National Academy of Sciences106(36), 15424-15429.

 

Meanwhile, homocysteine modulation appears mostly futile. Much of the association of elevated homocysteine with cardiovascular disease may be a coincident marker of too much high-methionine protein (in many animal products) and not enough folate containing plant foods in the diet. Genetic predispositions to lifelong moderately higher homocysteine have little or no effect on cardiovascular risk, indicating that moderately increased homocysteine doesn't play a large causal role. Moreover, trials of homocysteine lowering interventions (combinations of B12, B6, folic acid, betaine and/or choline supplements) have failed to reduce risk. In animal studies, high methionine intake increases homocysteine, but is also sufficient to increase atherosclerosis even in the absence of elevated homocysteine. And in a study of the MTHFR C677T polymorphism, which lowers levels of methyl-THF and elevates homocysteine, the authors suggest that elevated homocysteine may just be a marker of low methyl-THF status, which has the more direct role in atherosclerosis.

 

Clarke, R., Bennett, D. A., Parish, S., Verhoef, P., Dötsch-Klerk, M., Lathrop, M., ... & MTHFR Studies Collaborative Group. (2012). Homocysteine and coronary heart disease: meta-analysis of MTHFR case-control studies, avoiding publication biasPLoS medicine9(2), e1001177.

Wierzbicki, A. S. (2007). Homocysteine and cardiovascular disease: a review of the evidenceDiabetes and Vascular Disease Research4(2), 143-149.

Troen, A. M., Lutgens, E., Smith, D. E., Rosenberg, I. H., & Selhub, J. (2003). The atherogenic effect of excess methionine intakeProceedings of the National Academy of Sciences100(25), 15089-15094.

Antoniades, C., Shirodaria, C., Leeson, P., Baarholm, O. A., Van-Assche, T., Cunnington, C., ... & Channon, K. M. (2009). MTHFR 677 C> T Polymorphism reveals functional importance for 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, not homocysteine, in regulation of vascular redox state and endothelial function in human atherosclerosisCirculation119(18), 2507-2515.

 

Albedo, check your personal messages.


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#38 Area-1255

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 08:12 PM

folate is a potent copper antagonist, and it also raises nitric oxide and histamine levels...which can be beneficial.

Interestingly , the form you guys and the Imminist institute are advocating is a beautiful way of doing this.

 

J Nutr Biochem. 2004 Feb;15(2):64-79.

Folate, homocysteine, endothelial function and cardiovascular disease.
Abstract

Evidence reported from numerous clinical studies over the past decade has revealed an association between increased plasma total homocysteine (tHcy) concentrations and cardiovascular disease (CVD). In addition, epidemiological studies have identified an inverse association between blood folate concentrations, folate intake and cardiovascular endpoints, that are independent of homocysteine. Folic acid supplementation can lower plasma tHcy concentrations safely and inexpensively. Furthermore, folic acid can reverse endothelial dysfunction observed in patients with CVD. This reversal in endothelial dysfunction with folic acid has been shown to be independent of plasma tHcy lowering, suggesting that folate has pleiotropic effects on the vasculature other than homocysteine lowering. In vitro evidence demonstrates that 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (5MeTHF) the main circulating metabolite of folate, can increase nitric oxide production and can directly scavenge superoxide radicals. The potential beneficial role of folic acid supplements on vascular disease are currently being tested in randomized placebo controlled studies.

PMID:   14972346   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 



#39 albedo

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 10:31 AM

This study, looks to me a recent, large, relatively long term (5.5 years, but not longer!), meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials finding no relevant incidence, generally and on specific cancers risks, in particular, prostate cancer. For what concerns me, it reassures but does not support megadosing in long term and for homocysteine modulation (tend to agree with Darryl's last post) and, if supplementing, the form should be methyl-folate:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3836669/

 

Background

Some countries fortify flour with folic acid to prevent neural tube defects but others do not, partly because of concerns about cancer risks. We aimed to assess the effects of folic acid supplementation on site-specific cancer rates in the randomised trials.

 

Methods

Meta-analyses of data on each individual in all placebo-controlled trials of folic acid for prevention of cardiovascular disease (10 trials, n=46,969) or colorectal adenoma (3 trials, n=2652) that recorded cancer incidence and recruited >500 participants. All trials were evenly randomised. Risk ratios (RRs) compare those allocated folic acid vs those allocated placebo, giving cancer incidence rate ratios (among those still free of cancer) during, but not after the scheduled treatment period.

 

Findings

During a weighted mean follow-up duration of 5.5 years, allocation to folic acid quadrupled plasma folate, but had no statistically significant effect on overall cancer incidence (1904 vs 1809 cancers, RR=1.06 [95%CI 0.99–1.13], p=0.10; trend with duration of treatment p=0.46). There was no significant heterogeneity between the results of individual trials (p=0.23), or between the cadiovascular prevention trials and the adenoma prevention trials (p=0.13). Moreover, there was no significant effect of folic acid supplementation on the incidence of cancer of the large intestine, prostate, lung, breast or any other specific site.

 

Interpretation

Folic acid supplementation does not substantially increase or decrease site-specific cancer incidence during the first 5 years of treatment.



#40 caruga

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:49 PM

I wouldn't touch folinic acid (or unbranded 5-mthf), it's a racemic mix that gets sequestered and displaces natural folates.  It caused me issues with my liver.

 

I think folic acid is fine as long as you don't saturate your body's ability to convert it and cosupplement with other b-vitamins that support the conversation.  5-mthf is interesting since it can't be polyglutamylated and has little to no activity in mitochondria, so while it helps address conversion of homocysteine it is several conversion steps away from becoming other useful forms of folate.  Although that's true of folic acid too.  Subjectively it feels different when I take it, I think folic acid might react differently in the gut or possibly 'push' folate turnover (whereas 5-mthf just sits restores folate levels at a rate limited by methionine synthase) but can't find any research to support that, I'm just basing it on patterns I've observed.


Edited by caruga, 31 December 2014 - 07:50 PM.


#41 Darryl

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 09:14 PM

I wouldn't touch folinic acid

 

That suggestion was based mostly on the present existence of generic leucovorin (racemic folinic acid), a shelf-stable form that bypasses hepatic dihydrofolate reductase. Despite recent shortages, its on the WHO's list of essential medicines (its mostly used to rescue bone marrow after methotrexate chemo)Its obviously too expensive for for chronic oral supplementation, but the rat study suggests emergency injection in the minutes after a stroke or heart attack may prevent damage, and by a different mechanism from the clot busters like Activase. There's so few side effects (for those not on chemotherapy) that one could imagine emergency medical technicians routinely injecting it during resuscitation or enroute to the hospital. And even individuals at high-risk keeping autoinjectors at hand.


Edited by Darryl, 31 December 2014 - 09:14 PM.


#42 Dude_Abides

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 09:15 PM

Regardless of the current status of this thread's debate, would any of the potential harms of excess folate be mitigated or even obviated by the simultaneous ingestion of a potent green tea extract (e.g., Life Extension's Mega Green Tea Extract) due to EGCG's role as an antifolate and its ability to significantly inhibit the absorption of folic acid? I currently take 150% of the RDA every morning in the form of folate from lemon peel extract through a multivitamin and a b-complex vitamin, both of which are from Life Extension.


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#43 Darryl

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 12:08 AM

A recent study which demonstrated a benefit of 0.8 mg folic acid in stroke prevention.

 

Huo Y et al. 2015. Efficacy of folic acid therapy in primary prevention of stroke among adults with hypertension in China: the CSPPT randomized clinical trialJAMA,313(13), 1325-1335.

A total of 20 702 adults with hypertension without history of stroke or myocardial infarction (MI) participated in the study. Eligible participants, stratified by MTHFR C677T genotypes (CC, CT, and TT), were randomly assigned to receive double-blind daily treatment with a single-pill combination containing enalapril, 10 mg, and folic acid, 0.8 mg (n = 10 348) or a tablet containing enalapril, 10 mg, alone (n = 10 354).
 
During a median treatment duration of 4.5 years, compared with the enalapril alone group, the enalapril–folic acid group had a significant risk reduction in first stroke (2.7% of participants in the enalapril–folic acid group vs 3.4% in the enalapril alone group; hazard ratio HR, 0.79; 95% CI, 0.68-0.93), first ischemic stroke (2.2% with enalapril–folic acid vs 2.8% with enalapril alone; HR, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.64-0.91), and composite cardiovascular events consisting of cardiovascular death, MI, and stroke (3.1% with enalapril–folic acid vs 3.9% with enalapril alone; HR, 0.80; 95% CI, 0.69-0.92). The risks of hemorrhagic stroke (HR, 0.93; 95% CI, 0.65-1.34), MI (HR, 1.04; 95% CI, 0.60-1.82), and all-cause deaths (HR, 0.94; 95% CI, 0.81-1.10) did not differ significantly between the 2 treatment groups. 
 
Among adults with hypertension in China without a history of stroke or MI, the combined use of enalapril and folic acid, compared with enalapril alone, significantly reduced the risk of first stroke. These findings are consistent with benefits from folate use among adults with hypertension and low baseline folate levels.

 


Edited by Darryl, 10 July 2015 - 12:10 AM.


#44 kurdishfella

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 03:30 PM

Also 1mg of b12 vs 5 ug both will get excreted out of the body at same speed and your body wont use more thann it needs incase of diseases. So waste of money and kidney filtriation. Also high dose takes up space so other nutrients dont get abaorbed as well.
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#45 osris

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Posted 03 February 2022 - 02:21 PM

"Folic Acid Does Not Cause Cancer. So Who Made the Mistake?"

by Andrew W. Saul

"Science is a great servant but a poor master. Not infrequently, it can exemplify what Harvard math professor Tom Lehrer satirized as where "the important thing is to understand what you're doing, rather than to get the right answer." Just because a published study suggests something does not make it true.

I never liked math very much, and I still don't. But I am indebted to dedicated math teachers who taught me in spite of myself. Decades ago, one such teacher gave me wise advice that spans all disciplines: "Look at your answer. Does your answer make sense?"

So when research suggests that the vitamin folic acid somehow causes lung or colon cancer, it is time to hit the books. It may even occasionally be necessary to hit them right out of the way, and use common sense instead.

Folate, once known as vitamin B-9, is named after the dark green leafy vegetables it was first extracted from. "Folium" is Latin for leaf. Leaves and greens are high in folate. Herbivorous animals get plenty of folate because they eat plenty of foliage. Carnivorous animals also get plenty of folate, because they consume herbivorous animals. In the wild, this means the entire animal, including its abdominal organs full of the prey's last meal of partially digested vegetation. Indeed, the viscera are typically the first thing a predator eats.

If folate caused cancer, the whole animal kingdom would have a lot of it. And while wild animals have their own problems, cancer is rarely one of them.

If you look at the research suggesting a human cancer connection (1,2), it does not say that folate in food causes cancer. The research only points to folic acid, as specifically as found in supplements, as the bogey man.

But there is virtually no difference whatsoever between the two forms of this nutrient. Folate and folic acid are different only in whether the carboxylic acid groups have dissociated or not. Folic acid's molecular formula is C19, H19, N7, O6. Folate is C19, H18, N7, O6. The difference? Folate has one less hydrogen cation (H+). A hydrogen cation is a proton. A single proton. I have never seen evidence that protons cause cancer.

If folate/folic acid somehow caused cancer, it would have to be the rest of the molecule that is the problem. But most research shows that folic acid/folate prevents cancer. It is well-known that persons eating plant-based diets have a significantly lower risk of cancer. In addition to providing nutrients, eating more vegetation means more fiber and less constipation, valuable for preventing colon cancer. Herbivorous animals are definitely not constipated. Ask any dairy farmer, and you can start with me: many years ago, I used to milk 120 cows twice daily. When you walk behind Bossy, look out.

As for lung cancer, the research accusing folic acid also happens to show that 94% of the study subjects who developed lung cancer were either current or former smokers. Smoking causes cancer. Animals do not smoke. But they do eat a lot of foliage, either by grazing on greens or gorging on guts.

Both studies claiming that folic acid causes cancer were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, which also contains a large amount of pharmaceutical advertising. JAMA is among the journals that peer-reviewed research has shown to be biased against vitamins due to vested interests. (3)

What is more likely: that a small group of scientists made an error or two, or that all of Nature did? On this one, I am backing the animals. 1.8 million species can't be all wrong."

(Andrew W. Saul taught biology, nutrition, and health science at the college level. He is the author of Doctor Yourself and Fire Your Doctor! and, with Dr. Abram Hoffer, co-author of Orthomolecular Medicine for Everyone and The Vitamin Cure for Alcoholism. Saul is featured in the documentary film Food Matters. He is on the Editorial Board of the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine.)


References:

(1) Folic acid, B12 may increase cancer risk.
http://www.webmd.com...ase-cancer-risk
Original study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19920236

(2) High doses of folic acid may increase colon cancer risk.
http://www.foxnews.c...,278237,00.html
Original study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17551129

(3) Pharmaceutical advertising biases journals against vitamin supplements.
http://orthomolecula...ns/v05n02.shtml
Original study: Kemper KJ, Hood KL. Does pharmaceutical advertising affect journal publication about dietary supplements? BMC Complement Altern Med. 2008 Apr 9;8:11. Full text at http://www.biomedcen.../1472-6882/8/11 or http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=18400092

http://orthomolecula...ns/v06n17.shtml
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#46 kurdishfella

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 06:50 PM

Are the RDA taking into account the form of the folic acid and how much of it gets absorbed competing with other nutrients? an injectable can be take orally of injected but an supplement only works orally

Edited by kurdishfella, 06 February 2023 - 06:57 PM.


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#47 ironfistx

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 08:53 PM

Hey, does this apply to folate, or just folic acid?


Edited by ironfistx, 06 February 2023 - 08:55 PM.





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