12 replies to this topic

[wilson777]

Hi all,

Just completed the Braverman nature assessment, results below:

Section 1A = Dopamine Nature - 27
Section 2A = Acetylcholine Nature - 27
Section 3A = GABA Nature - 31
Section 4A = Serotonin Nature - 15

Section 1B = Dopamine Nature - 12
Section 2B = Acetylcholine Nature - 11
Section 3B = GABA Nature - 11
Section 4B = Serotonin Nature - 6

Can anyone help with the interrpretation and possibly offer some advice on what I should do to normalise these levels.

Thanks,
Wilson.

[meursault]

Hi all,

Just completed the Braverman nature assessment, results below:

Section 1A = Dopamine Nature - 27
Section 2A = Acetylcholine Nature - 27
Section 3A = GABA Nature - 31
Section 4A = Serotonin Nature - 15

Section 1B = Dopamine Nature - 12
Section 2B = Acetylcholine Nature - 11
Section 3B = GABA Nature - 11
Section 4B = Serotonin Nature - 6

Can anyone help with the interrpretation and possibly offer some advice on what I should do to normalise these levels.

Thanks,
Wilson.

The Braverman test is an unscientific and useless assessment of neurotransmitter levels.

Edited by czukles, 21 June 2008 - 10:42 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

Hi all,

Just completed the Braverman nature assessment, results below:

Section 1A = Dopamine Nature - 27
Section 2A = Acetylcholine Nature - 27
Section 3A = GABA Nature - 31
Section 4A = Serotonin Nature - 15

Section 1B = Dopamine Nature - 12
Section 2B = Acetylcholine Nature - 11
Section 3B = GABA Nature - 11
Section 4B = Serotonin Nature - 6

Can anyone help with the interrpretation and possibly offer some advice on what I should do to normalise these levels.

Thanks,
Wilson.

Some people don't think Braverman is scientific because you can't dissect human brains after giving the diagnostic tests to determine if the tests reflect brain chemistry and you can't give the Braverman tests to mice. Anyway, I love the Braverman stuff. Thought it was extremely helpful and helped me better understand the supplement universe and myself.

Your score looks like you are gaba dominant and have fairly good base brain chemistry. Your GABA is not too bad -- which is good, as bad GABA can take a long time to fix.

Here are some supplements I usually take to aid the various neuro-transmitter levels:
Dopamine:
L-Phenylalanine
Ginko
Guarana

AcetylCholine:
Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Alpha GPC
Huperzine

Gaba:
GABA
B-Vitamins
L-Glutamine

Serotonin:
St. John's Wart
Tryptophan

If you stick with Braverman long enough, you'll be able to understand the relationship of various supplements to your brain chemistry. I have found many of these relationships. Some which have been confirmed by research studies and others which have not been studied. But... The attitude of some on this board is so negative regarding Braverman's approach that I'm not even going to share and instead just stick to the basics (see above).

Anyway. Stick with Braverman and take the test occasionally and adjust supplement regimen as needed. I'm sure it will be an interesting personal journey. You're brain chemistry is pretty good -- so I don't think it will be as dramatic for you as it was for me when I first stumbled upon all this stuff.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 23 June 2008 - 05:05 PM.

[Zoroaster]

Some people don't think Braverman is scientific because you can't dissect human brains after giving the diagnostic tests to determine if the tests reflect brain chemistry and you can't give the Braverman tests to mice.

That's part of it. But people also think its un-scientific because its based on a few subjective true/false questions that require some in-depth self-analysis, which studies show most people are unable to accurately perform. For this reason alone, no serious scientist in any discipline in the world would consider that a valid survey from which accurate data could be extracted. The nail in the coffin is the fact that the Braverman assessment is harmful about as often as its helpful. I took it quite a while back and decided to structure some elements of my supplement regimen around it because I really didn't have anything else to go on. Well it was totally and completely backwards. I just kept feeling worse and worse. I am now doing pretty much the opposite of what the Braverman assessment recommended and I'm doing better than ever. Look around on these boards and you'll find just as many, if not more, people who had an experience like mine as you will people who had success with this test.

Of course neurotransmitter levels can affect one's mood and cognition. That's well understood. But I think you're far better off figuring out what you need by yourself than relying on anything the Braverman assessment is going to give you.

[Leo]

I also just completed the Braverman nature assessment, here are my results:

Section 1A = Dopamine Nature - 28
Section 2A = Acetylcholine Nature - 12
Section 3A = GABA Nature - 20
Section 4A = Serotonin Nature - 17

Section 1B = Dopamine Nature - 11
Section 2B = Acetylcholine Nature - 12
Section 3B = GABA Nature - 18
Section 4B = Serotonin Nature - 10

What do you guys think? How do you interpret the results above?

[meursault]

I also just completed the Braverman nature assessment, here are my results:

Section 1A = Dopamine Nature - 28
Section 2A = Acetylcholine Nature - 12
Section 3A = GABA Nature - 20
Section 4A = Serotonin Nature - 17

Section 1B = Dopamine Nature - 11
Section 2B = Acetylcholine Nature - 12
Section 3B = GABA Nature - 18
Section 4B = Serotonin Nature - 10

What do you guys think? How do you interpret the results above?

Invalid. The Braverman assessment is useless.

[Leo]

What about Braverman's book and ideas? I'm new to this.

Invalid. The Braverman assessment is useless.

[4eva]

Some people don't think Braverman is scientific because you can't dissect human brains after giving the diagnostic tests to determine if the tests reflect brain chemistry and you can't give the Braverman tests to mice.

That's part of it. But people also think its un-scientific because its based on a few subjective true/false questions that require some in-depth self-analysis, which studies show most people are unable to accurately perform. For this reason alone, no serious scientist in any discipline in the world would consider that a valid survey from which accurate data could be extracted. The nail in the coffin is the fact that the Braverman assessment is harmful about as often as its helpful. I took it quite a while back and decided to structure some elements of my supplement regimen around it because I really didn't have anything else to go on. Well it was totally and completely backwards. I just kept feeling worse and worse. I am now doing pretty much the opposite of what the Braverman assessment recommended and I'm doing better than ever. Look around on these boards and you'll find just as many, if not more, people who had an experience like mine as you will people who had success with this test. Of course neurotransmitter levels can affect one's mood and cognition. That's well understood. But I think you're far better off figuring out what you need by yourself than relying on anything the Braverman assessment is going to give you.

Is the Minnesolat multiphasal personality inventory (MMPI)useless too?

That is a number of questions that may seem silly and trivial but can reveal a good deal about your emotional state. One question that may seem trivial is Do you read the editorials in the newspapers everyday.

There are ways of asking questions like the editorial one several tims throughtout the entire questionnaire to gauge how honest people are.

Braverman's incorporates that.so if you answer a question one way in the first part but answer it the other way later on then it is getting the person's own ambiquity about that particular issue. And that is why a questionnaire that is long and has repeating questions can be revealing. We can forget how we answered a question 10 minutes ago.(And tht at is why the questions are structured the way they are.)

So to say it can't accomplish much without indepth analysis is absolutely not supported by fact or reality (MMPI is one example).

The MMPI can get a real sense of how dysfunctional a family the tester came from.

Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it isn't valid.

[the_colossus]

I just took the test and my results were pretty much what I expected. Low GABA with high Dopamine, surprised that my GABA is still so low. Probably should try taking 2 pills instead of 1. Im not doing that because the test says so, but because it got me to think about it and realize that Im still more vulnerable to anger and irritability than I would like.

Thats the point of the test, to get you thinking about your amino acids. You don't buy amino acids because of a test, you should examine the characteristics of a deficiency to see if it applies to you for your long-term and than test it out.

Even if their was an accurate scientific test it wouldn't be perfect. Amino acids in your brain can change with your mood, for example tests show significant changes with Manic-Depressive people when their brains go from 1 extreme to the other. Even with normal people it would change a bit.

[Ben]

Hasn't this test been shown to be bunk a dozen times on this forum?

[abelard lindsay]

Hasn't this test been shown to be bunk a dozen times on this forum?

I have followed the program for a while and seen emperical evidence that it is a fairly good representation of neurochemistry. The techniques to alter neurochemistry work for me. Subtly manipulating your personality around with supplements is something you can entertain yourself with for years. You will find if you follow the program that many supplements not mentioned in Braverman's book have neurochemical effects.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 31 October 2008 - 02:32 PM.

[StrangeAeons]

So now, do people with Parkinson's disease score very high on Acetylcholine and very low on Dopamine?
I didn't think so.

Making these broad strokes of characterizing personality by neurotransmitter probably only yields positive results in supplementation because the brain adapts to the supplements, much like any other psychiatric medication. However, if somebody has a pathology; and this can arguably be stated about people with mental health issues that are pervasive developmental or characterized (in name) as "personality" disorders; well, trying to go this route would yield very little.
Aside from the fact that this appears to be simply a step up from asking a psychic to help you align your chi or whatnot, there is the total disregard of receptor subtypes and neurotransmitter pathways. Most of these neurotransmitters do drastically different things in different parts of the brain and/or at different receptor subtypes.

[abelard lindsay]

So now, do people with Parkinson's disease score very high on Acetylcholine and very low on Dopamine?
I didn't think so.

Making these broad strokes of characterizing personality by neurotransmitter probably only yields positive results in supplementation because the brain adapts to the supplements, much like any other psychiatric medication. However, if somebody has a pathology; and this can arguably be stated about people with mental health issues that are pervasive developmental or characterized (in name) as "personality" disorders; well, trying to go this route would yield very little.
Aside from the fact that this appears to be simply a step up from asking a psychic to help you align your chi or whatnot, there is the total disregard of receptor subtypes and neurotransmitter pathways. Most of these neurotransmitters do drastically different things in different parts of the brain and/or at different receptor subtypes.

I don't know anyone with Parkinsons and thus cannot evaluate your claims about Braverman capturing the dopamine deficiency in Parkinsons patients. The questions do ask about things such as tremor, motivation and physical coordination. There are no psychics or spiritualists involved in all this. You buy the book, you read it, you're done, you can use it for the rest of your life. I have given the Braverman tests to some people and their brain chemistry is fine. They don't need to even take anything! Though some have told me that at different points in their lives when they were going through crises they would have answered the questions very differently.

I don't really think you can say that SSRIs (Serotonin), Benzos (Gaba), ACH reuptake inhibitors (Choline) and Dopamine increasing drugs like Deprenyl are psychologically similar.

I haven't taken any of these (except huperzine which is an ACH reuptake inhibiting supplement) but milder forms of brain chemistry manipulation with the regimens I laid out in the above postings are psychologically different from each other and the difference is fairly real and obvious and IMHO roughly corresponds to the Braverman characterizations and tests. To put it in laymans terms... Most would agree that the effects of chocolate(dopamine), alcohol(Gaba + Serotonin) and Cigarrettes (Choline) are psychologically different from each other even though all can be said to temporarily alleviate depression.

The functional aspect of all this is I regularly take the test when something is "off" and then take the right combination of supplements to put me back on the right track without producing the production of neurotransmitters that are not out of balance. I have been doing this for 3 years now so I have the questions more or less memorized and can quiz myself whenever I feel like it. Of course, over the years, I have learned the normal tendencies of my brain pretty well and have settled into a regular regimen.

This is starting to enter mainstream science. For instance, the article at the economist below:

http://www.economist...ory_id=12415194

Serotonin is another neurotransmitter that is usually deficient in an addicted brain. This probably accounts for the depressive side of withdrawal symptoms (serotonin receptors in the brain are the target of antidepressant drugs such as Prozac). Serotonin is made from an amino acid called tryptophan, which is found in foods such as meat, brown rice, nuts, fish and milk. Philip Cowen, a psychiatrist at Oxford University, has found that reducing the amount of tryptophan in someone’s diet increases depressive symptoms and also that increasing it can induce a more optimistic outlook.

Anxiety and sleeplessness are common withdrawal symptoms. They happen because many addictive drugs reduce the supply of a chemical called glutamine, a precursor to GABA. One of GABA’s roles is to promote relaxation. (The molecular receptors for GABA are the target of tranquillisers such as Valium.) But glutamine levels can be restored, and production of GABA boosted, by the consumption of an amino acid called N-acetylcysteine (NAC) that is found in nuts and seeds.

This is not just theory. A controlled study published last year in the American Journal of Psychiatry by Steven LaRowe, of the Medical University of South Carolina, and his colleagues, found that giving NAC to cocaine addicts reduced their desire to use the drug sufficiently for it to be recommended as a treatment. A different study found that NAC reduced the desire to gamble in more than 80% of those addicted to this pastime, compared with 28% of those who were given a placebo.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 01 November 2008 - 03:43 PM.