180 replies to this topic

[Brainbox]

I heard the same interview I guess (BNR?)
However, it seems to me that his opinion was based only on the fact that coconut oil is a saturated fat that raises cholesterol, ignoring other possible (or probable?) benefits.
But I must agree that there is still a big inconsistency between some specific coconut studies and cohort studies that indicate (or deliver proof?) that saturated fats in general are unhealthy. It's difficult to decide between these elementary different study types that both have their shortcomings in interpolation towards human individuals.

[drmz]

Yeah it was on BNR.
I used the contact form on his blog to give a reaction on his interview.Maybe he gives a reaction with the reason for his "advice". Maybe he just doesn't want to speak out on something that hasn't been studied in great detail yet.

[health_nutty]

What do you take from this article which used coconut oil for source of saturated fat:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14229538/

In the study, at The Heart Research Institute in Sydney, Australia, 14 people, ages 18-40, ate two meals of carrot cake and a milkshake one month apart. One meal was high in saturated fat — using coconut oil — and the other was high in polyunsaturated fat — using safflower oil.

Saturated fat has long been linked to the buildup of plaque that can lead to heart attacks and strokes. HDL, the “good” cholesterol, protects arteries from the inflammation that leads to artery-clogging plaques. And plaque hurts the ability of arteries to expand to carry blood to tissues and organs.

Effect seen in 3 hours
The researchers, led by Dr. Stephen Nicholls, a cardiologist now at the Cleveland Clinic, found that three hours after eating the saturated-fat cake and shake, the lining of the arteries was hindered from expanding to increase blood flow. And after six hours, the anti-inflammatory qualities of the good cholesterol were reduced.

But the polyunsaturated meal seemed to improve those anti-inflammatory qualities. Also, fewer inflammatory agents were found in the arteries than before the meal.

[drmz]

What do you take from this article which used coconut oil for source of saturated fat:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14229538/

In the study, at The Heart Research Institute in Sydney, Australia, 14 people, ages 18-40, ate two meals of carrot cake and a milkshake one month apart. One meal was high in saturated fat — using coconut oil — and the other was high in polyunsaturated fat — using safflower oil.

Saturated fat has long been linked to the buildup of plaque that can lead to heart attacks and strokes. HDL, the “good” cholesterol, protects arteries from the inflammation that leads to artery-clogging plaques. And plaque hurts the ability of arteries to expand to carry blood to tissues and organs.

Effect seen in 3 hours
The researchers, led by Dr. Stephen Nicholls, a cardiologist now at the Cleveland Clinic, found that three hours after eating the saturated-fat cake and shake, the lining of the arteries was hindered from expanding to increase blood flow. And after six hours, the anti-inflammatory qualities of the good cholesterol were reduced.

But the polyunsaturated meal seemed to improve those anti-inflammatory qualities. Also, fewer inflammatory agents were found in the arteries than before the meal.

I believe there were some comments made on this trial on Imminst but i can't find them now.Something about the wrong kind of cocunut oil --> not cold pressed & biological

[stephen_b]

And of course if the coconut oil were hydrogenated, then the study would be worthless, except to recommend avoiding hydrogenation.

StephenB

[drmz]

Got my answer from Prof Dr Katan.
'
better safe then sorry --> overlooking all human data he comes to the conclusion that it's better to use oils that already proved themselves (where more data is available)

[tomnook]

I've some anecdotal evidence with regard to coconut oil and Alzheimer's disease.

My mother is 82 years old and has been in decline with Alzheimer's disease for several years - she is presently cared for at a nursing home (which I co-own) having moved there from a residential care home six months ago after her mental capacity had deteriorated significantly to the stage where she could no longer understand how to eat or swallow. Her consultant now classifies her as having severe Alzhheimer's and believes that there are no drugs which will help her condition.

At the time of her move six months ago my mum was unable to say more than the odd word, was unable to recognise family or friends, couldn't feed herself or "remember" how to eat or swallow food and was unable to walk at all.

She has received no medication other than a fentanyl patch for pain relief in an arthitic shoulder for the past six months.

I asked the consultant to consider my mother for one of a number of recent clinical trials but the reply was in the negative. I also presented him with a number of alternative therapies (Huperzine A, Niacinamide and others) in which he also showed no interest. I'm unable to self-prescribe on behalf of my mother as the nursing home would be liable for any negative response from a non-prescribed vitamin or supplement.

I read this posting by FunkOdyssey about a doctor who'd given her husband virgin coconut oil as a last resort to try and help with his Alzheimer's and decided to try a similar approach with my mum.

Last November I took a 54oz tub of virgin coconut oil with me and gave my mum several teaspoons of it whilst feeding her lunch. Within just a few minutes she gave me a sensible reply to a question for the first time in months - Q: Do you like it? It's good for you. A: Yes, it's nice.

Since that time, my mother's "recovery" has been remarked on by everyone who's seen her - including her psychiatric nurse who can't believe it's the same woman she assessed three or four months ago. The psychiatric nurse has visited my mum monthly since she moved home and says that the change is remarkable in that my mum is now trying to make conversation with her, is alert, interested in her surroundings and also far more mobile. Mum also now recognises my brother, sister and friends as people she knows but can't quite put a name to whereas previously she simply looked at them with a vacant expression.

One of the nurses told me that she is now feeding herself again and that she also walked to the toilet unaided a few days ago - something she hasn't been able to do for several months.

I left the tub of coconut oil with the cook along with instructions to give my mum at least a tablespoon full each day.

Whilst it's not possible to say for certain that these changes are solely due to taking the coconut oil, with no other dietary or medicinal changes, personally, I think it is very likely that they are.

I've substituted coconut oil for butter with my oatmeal each morning!

Edited by tomnook, 11 February 2009 - 07:51 PM.

[JLL]

That's incredible. Anyone know of any studies out there that would explain the results?

[tomnook]

That's incredible. Anyone know of any studies out there that would explain the results?

DukeNukem's post earlier in this thread referred to MCT's given to aged dogs :

>>
Aged dogs receiving MCTs, as compared to
age-matched controls, showed dramatically improved mitochondrial
function, as evidenced by increased active respiration rates. This
effect was most prominent in the parietal lobe.
>>

Several portions of the parietal lobe are responsible for language processing and my mother is now able to construct short but meaningful sentences which she had been unable to do for several months.

The changes really are, as you say, incredible.

A friend's mother is also suffering from severe Alzheimer's and I've suggested that he give coconut oil a try with her too - I'll post any feedback from him.

[niner]

What do you take from this article which used coconut oil for source of saturated fat:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14229538/

In the study, at The Heart Research Institute in Sydney, Australia, 14 people, ages 18-40, ate two meals of carrot cake and a milkshake one month apart. One meal was high in saturated fat — using coconut oil — and the other was high in polyunsaturated fat — using safflower oil.

Saturated fat has long been linked to the buildup of plaque that can lead to heart attacks and strokes. HDL, the “good” cholesterol, protects arteries from the inflammation that leads to artery-clogging plaques. And plaque hurts the ability of arteries to expand to carry blood to tissues and organs.

Effect seen in 3 hours
The researchers, led by Dr. Stephen Nicholls, a cardiologist now at the Cleveland Clinic, found that three hours after eating the saturated-fat cake and shake, the lining of the arteries was hindered from expanding to increase blood flow. And after six hours, the anti-inflammatory qualities of the good cholesterol were reduced.

But the polyunsaturated meal seemed to improve those anti-inflammatory qualities. Also, fewer inflammatory agents were found in the arteries than before the meal.

It doesn't feel like the data is all in on coconut oil. I love the taste of it, and it is a minor, but not major component of my diet for the time being. This study strikes me as a little weak. Two meals, a month apart. I presume that the dose of each oil was rather huge. So they saw an acute effect on flow-mediated dilation, but how does that relate to long term effects of normal amounts of MCTs in the diet? Might mean something, might mean nothing...

[niner]

And of course if the coconut oil were hydrogenated, then the study would be worthless, except to recommend avoiding hydrogenation.

I don't think coconut oil gets hydrogenated, because it's almost all saturated anyway. If you fully hydrogenate an unsaturated oil, it gets turned into a saturated oil.

[rwac]

And of course if the coconut oil were hydrogenated, then the study would be worthless, except to recommend avoiding hydrogenation.

I don't think coconut oil gets hydrogenated, because it's almost all saturated anyway. If you fully hydrogenate an unsaturated oil, it gets turned into a saturated oil.

Good point. What the heck is hydrogenated coconut oil ?
We do see references to this stuff all over the place.

[niner]

And of course if the coconut oil were hydrogenated, then the study would be worthless, except to recommend avoiding hydrogenation.

I don't think coconut oil gets hydrogenated, because it's almost all saturated anyway. If you fully hydrogenate an unsaturated oil, it gets turned into a saturated oil.

Good point. What the heck is hydrogenated coconut oil ?
We do see references to this stuff all over the place.

You're right, it is available in a hydrogenated form. Apparently the 8% of unsaturated fatty acids is enough to make people want to hydrogenate it. This is done to raise the melting temperature, according to Wikipedia. Not sure why anyone would want that, but then I live in a cold climate. So there's another thing to watch out for...

[Forever21]

Artisana RAW Coconut Oil is tasteless compared to Alpha DME. I can hardly taste any flavour.

Edited by Forever21, 12 February 2009 - 06:32 AM.

[stephen_b]

Another good reason to take coconut oil is that it has anti-fungal properties.

"In vitro antimicrobial properties of coconut oil on Candida species in Ibadan, Nigeria", J Med Food. 2007 Jun, PMID 17651080:

It is noteworthy that coconut oil was active against species of Candida at 100% concentration compared to fluconazole. Coconut oil should be used in the treatment of fungal infections in view of emerging drug-resistant Candida species.

StephenB

Edited by stephen_b, 12 February 2009 - 08:41 PM.

[niner]

Another good reason to take coconut oil is that it has anti-fungal properties.

"In vitro antimicrobial properties of coconut oil on Candida species in Ibadan, Nigeria", J Med Food. 2007 Jun, PMID 17651080:

It is noteworthy that coconut oil was active against species of Candida at 100% concentration compared to fluconazole. Coconut oil should be used in the treatment of fungal infections in view of emerging drug-resistant Candida species.

I'm not sure how to interpret this. In the abstract, it says:

C. albicans had the highest susceptibility to coconut oil (100%), with a minimum inhibitory concentration (MIC) of 25% (1:4 dilution), while fluconazole had 100% susceptibility at an MIC of 64 microg/mL (1:2 dilution). C. krusei showed the highest resistance to coconut oil with an MIC of 100% (undiluted), while fluconazole had an MIC of > 128 microg/mL. It is noteworthy that coconut oil was active against species of Candida at 100% concentration compared to fluconazole. Coconut oil should be used in the treatment of fungal infections in view of emerging drug-resistant Candida species.

Note the difference in concentrations used to obtain the MIC: 64ug/ml for fluconazole, and 25%, or 175,000ug/ml for coconut oil. Given the wild differences in potency, you certainly couldn't expect coconut oil to be active orally. Maybe if you had a superficial fungal infection, you could could treat it topically with pure coconut oil.

[stephen_b]

Another good reason to take coconut oil is that it has anti-fungal properties.

"In vitro antimicrobial properties of coconut oil on Candida species in Ibadan, Nigeria", J Med Food. 2007 Jun, PMID 17651080:

It is noteworthy that coconut oil was active against species of Candida at 100% concentration compared to fluconazole. Coconut oil should be used in the treatment of fungal infections in view of emerging drug-resistant Candida species.

I'm not sure how to interpret this. In the abstract, it says:

C. albicans had the highest susceptibility to coconut oil (100%), with a minimum inhibitory concentration (MIC) of 25% (1:4 dilution), while fluconazole had 100% susceptibility at an MIC of 64 microg/mL (1:2 dilution). C. krusei showed the highest resistance to coconut oil with an MIC of 100% (undiluted), while fluconazole had an MIC of > 128 microg/mL. It is noteworthy that coconut oil was active against species of Candida at 100% concentration compared to fluconazole. Coconut oil should be used in the treatment of fungal infections in view of emerging drug-resistant Candida species.

Note the difference in concentrations used to obtain the MIC: 64ug/ml for fluconazole, and 25%, or 175,000ug/ml for coconut oil. Given the wild differences in potency, you certainly couldn't expect coconut oil to be active orally. Maybe if you had a superficial fungal infection, you could could treat it topically with pure coconut oil.

The article is saying that C. albicans is hugely susceptible to coconut oil.

The highest concentration possible of coconut oil is of course 100% undiluted. A minimum inhibitory concentration "is the lowest concentration of an antimicrobial that will inhibit the visible growth of a microorganism after overnight incubation". In a solution of 1 part coconut oil to 4 parts something else, coconut oil prevents C. albicans from growing. This is big news given that candida can be so hard to get rid of for many. C. krusei on the other hand survived straight coconut oil. It was present in the least number of samples though; hopefully it is fairly rare.

The take-away for me is that occasional straight coconut oil on an empty stomach could have a positive impact on gut health.

StephenB

(I wonder what they were using to dilute the coconut oil.)

Edited by stephen_b, 13 February 2009 - 05:08 PM.

[Mind]

Coconut Lowers LDL, VLDL and Triglycerides, Raises HDL

This study investigated the effect of coconut flakes on serum cholesterol levels of humans with moderately raised serum cholesterol in 21 subjects. The test foods were as follows: corn flakes as the control food, oat bran flakes as the reference food, and corn flakes with 15% and 25% dietary fiber from coconut flakes (made from coconut flour production).

Results showed a significant percent reduction in serum total and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (in mg/dL) for all test foods, except for corn flakes, as follows: oat bran flakes, 8.4 ± 1.4 and 8.8 ± 6.0, respectively; 15% coconut flakes, 6.9 ± 1.1 and 11.0 ± 4.0, respectively; and 25% coconut flakes, 10.8 ± 1.3 and 9.2 ± 5.4, respectively. Serum triglycerides were significantly reduced for all test foods: corn flakes, 14.5 ± 6.3%; oat bran flakes, 22.7 ± 2.9%; 15% coconut flakes, 19.3 ± 5.7%; and 25% coconut flakes, 21.8 ± 6.0%.

In conclusion, both 15% and 25% coconut flakes reduced serum total and LDL cholesterol and serum triglycerides of humans with moderately raised serum cholesterol levels. Coconut flour is a good source of both soluble and insoluble dietary fiber, and both types of fiber may have significant role in the reduction of the above lipid biomarker.

[niner]

The highest concentration possible of coconut oil is of course 100% undiluted. A minimum inhibitory concentration "is the lowest concentration of an antimicrobial that will inhibit the visible growth of a microorganism after overnight incubation". In a solution of 1 part coconut oil to 4 parts something else, coconut oil prevents C. albicans from growing. This is big news given that candida can be so hard to get rid of for many. C. krusei on the other hand survived straight coconut oil. It was present in the least number of samples though; hopefully it is fairly rare.

The take-away for me is that occasional straight coconut oil on an empty stomach could have a positive impact on gut health.

I don't think this would work, since it would be just about impossible to maintain a 25% concentration of coconut oil in the gut. It would be too diluted, and probably at least partially hydrolyzed. Also, if you have a fungal infection in the gut, aren't you kind of in trouble? Sounds serious... I think you might have some luck with straight coconut oil against athlete's foot or jock itch. I heard an anecdotal report that a person cured a case of toenail fungus by rubbing tea tree oil on it daily for a long time. Of course, I had a case of toenail fungus spontaneously disappear without treatment, so such anecdotes don't mean all that much.

[woly]

Coconut Lowers LDL, VLDL and Triglycerides, Raises HDL

This study investigated the effect of coconut flakes on serum cholesterol levels of humans with moderately raised serum cholesterol in 21 subjects. The test foods were as follows: corn flakes as the control food, oat bran flakes as the reference food, and corn flakes with 15% and 25% dietary fiber from coconut flakes (made from coconut flour production).

Results showed a significant percent reduction in serum total and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (in mg/dL) for all test foods, except for corn flakes, as follows: oat bran flakes, 8.4 ± 1.4 and 8.8 ± 6.0, respectively; 15% coconut flakes, 6.9 ± 1.1 and 11.0 ± 4.0, respectively; and 25% coconut flakes, 10.8 ± 1.3 and 9.2 ± 5.4, respectively. Serum triglycerides were significantly reduced for all test foods: corn flakes, 14.5 ± 6.3%; oat bran flakes, 22.7 ± 2.9%; 15% coconut flakes, 19.3 ± 5.7%; and 25% coconut flakes, 21.8 ± 6.0%.

In conclusion, both 15% and 25% coconut flakes reduced serum total and LDL cholesterol and serum triglycerides of humans with moderately raised serum cholesterol levels. Coconut flour is a good source of both soluble and insoluble dietary fiber, and both types of fiber may have significant role in the reduction of the above lipid biomarker.

I posted this in zoolanders morning shake thread

"1) in the Trinidad et al study, they used coconut flour. coconut flour has a huge fiber content with a relatively small MCT content, this may have accounted for some/all of the effect it had on cholesterol levels. Coconut flour contains ~14% oil AFAIK so if they were supplementing the meals with 15% and 25% coconut flour then that would have made for a pretty small oil content right?"

[CobaltThoriumG]

Is there any particular brand of coconut oil people here prefer?

Nutiva is the least expensive I have seen. I prefer the taste of Jarrow. Those are the only two I have tried. I wonder how consistent the taste is, though. Perhaps depending on growing conditions, I would prefer the next batch of Nutiva to Jarrow. I don't know.

And so it turns out, the latest batch of Jarrow I bought is inferior to the last batch of Nutiva I had.

[yoyo]

it would be nice if individual fatty acids were tested by themselves. even then, something like lauric may have good properties in some situations and be harmful in others. i'm mostly of the opinion that w-6 and palmitic are the main fats to avoid, and that other than w-3 its kind of unclear what the others do, although w-9 and stearic look pretty 'neutral' overall

[tpower]

What if the increase in metabolism that comes from ingesting coconut oil decreases lifespan?!

[VespeneGas]

What if the increase in metabolism that comes from ingesting coconut oil decreases lifespan?!

probably not

[WyaienWyaeengee]

And so it turns out, the latest batch of Jarrow I bought is inferior to the last batch of Nutiva I had.

Okay, I'm curious

In what way?

What if the increase in metabolism that comes from ingesting coconut oil decreases lifespan?!

probably not

Damn, now that is just cool

Edited by WyaienWyaeengee, 25 March 2009 - 12:24 AM.

[tpower]

What if the increase in metabolism that comes from ingesting coconut oil decreases lifespan?!

probably not

Sorry, but to say that the same phenomenon would hold in general is hard to believe...I wouldn't bet my life on just one paper. Thanks for the input though. Studies have shown the body temperature is inversely related to lifespan, and coconut oil has been ingested to promote body warmth. I'm going to venture to say that coconut oil may not be good for life extensionists, despite what that paper said.

Edited by tpower, 28 March 2009 - 12:03 AM.

[4eva]

I don't think coconut oil gets hydrogenated, because it's almost all saturated anyway. If you fully hydrogenate an unsaturated oil, it gets turned into a saturated oil.

Virgin coconut oil is not processed. Organic and virgin may be the labels indicating non-hydrogenation, I think.

But coconut oil can be processed and that processing means it is hydrogenated.

[Dmitri]

With all that positive research I wonder why my father's Doctor told him not to use coconut oil (He has high cholesterol). Strangely enough, she recommended the South Beach Diet which is a high fat, low carb diet.

Anyway, I don’t understand the mechanism of coconut oils health properties, isn’t saturated fat supposed to be bad for your health? Coconut oil is 92% saturated fat is it not?

[4eva]

There is still confusion about cholesterol and saturated fat. They are not the same thing.

Plant based fats do no contain cholesterol. Coconut oil is 85% saturated fat. But it has no cholesterol.

Saturated fat just means it is solid at room temperature.

And part of the confusion may have to do with trans fats (like margarine) being solid at room temperature.

Trans fats should be avoid but (solid or) saturated vegatable-based fats (coconut and palm oils) are fine.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fatty_acid

Edited by 4eva, 28 March 2009 - 01:45 AM.

[Mind]

Well my wife went to the doctor today and when she got to discussing diet, she mentioned she used olive oil and coconut oil in some food preparations. When he heard she was using coconut oil he practically flipped his lid - suggesting it was the worst thing she could possibly eat. He said he has read "recent studies". Knowing how pervasive the anti-fat myths are among health professionals, I think he was just being reactionary (and "following" the crowd). Any ideas why he would go ballistic? Any recent studies?

What I have seen from many studies regarding coconut oil and fat in general is that they don't control for sugar/carbs or other ingredients. With regards to the milk shake and carrot cake experiment - why didn't they just have the people consume straight oil?