180 replies to this topic

[lesstime]

http://www.vitacost....-oil-54-fl-oz-3
anyone tried or heard about this brand? its the cheapest ive seen so far and i got a $10 coupon too

[DAMI]

How is coconut oil, being saturated fat, so popular here? As far as I remember Michael actually mentioned that even Lauric Acid ist associated with higher CHD risk.

[Phoenicis]

Wanted to see what consensus is on this now. Would Darryl or Timar care to weigh in?

[timar]

I'm still not quite sure what to think of coconut oil, other than that it tastes yummy

 

It is obvious to me that coconut oil is currently hyped beyond any reason (particularly, of course, in the paleosphere). Yet there are, indeed, some interesting studies showing that virgin coconut oil does not only seem to be much more benign than to be expected by its content of saturated fatty acids but even to have some beneficial properties. There are similar or even more promising studies about red palm oil, which, in my opinion, is even more interesting as a health food because of its exceptionally high content of highly bioavailable carotenoids and tocotrienols (which is why I made it part of my Polypulp). Unfortunately, it tastes rather gross compared to coconut oil.

 

There is a fascinating study on red palm oil by Malaysian researchers showing that while refined palm oil promoted experimental atherosclerosis in rabbits, unrefined red palm oil had a protective effect. Intriguingly, when the researchers took the isolated tocol and carotenoid fraction from the oil (the same that is used to produce tocotrienol and carotenoid supplements) and mixed it with the refined oil in a ratio to match the virgin oil, that reconstituted red palm oil failed to excert the same beneficial effects as the virgin red palm oil, which was not only significantly less atherogenic than the reconstituted RPO but also than the polyunsaturated (omega-6) rice bran oil they used a a control, despite the significantly lower cholesterol level on the rice bran oil diet (an observation which is remarkably congruent with Ramsden's et al. recent meta-analysis and brilliant dissection of the Sydney Diet Heart Trial).

 

The Malaysian researchers also cite previous work of their own, showing that the predominant position of specific saturated fatty acids on the glycerol backbones has a highly significant effect with regard to its atherogenic properties (table 3), probably because the fatty acid on the second position (sn2) is particularly well absorbed and this difference may explain why plant derived saturated fats (but also those in cows milk) are considerably less artherogenic than those found in meat. So even something as simple as a triglyceride is obviously more than the sum of its parts. And yet neither the stereospecificity nor the absence or presence of the phytochemical fraction fully accounts for the observed difference between virgin and reconstituted red palm oil. Thus the authors are left to acknowledge that...

 

Perhaps we still have something to learn about nature's packaging.

 

I think it is very likely that the same holistic argument applies for coconot oil or any other unrefined plant oil. In nutrition there is a remarkable tendency to observe, that something which is perfectly healthy in its natural state becomes unhealthy as soon as it is processed and refined and, as this study exemplifies so intriguingly, these differences often can't be fully accounted for by a reductionist approach. Hence, even if I take a conservative stance and am not willing to simply abandon the vast amount of evidence on the atherogenic properties of saturated fats (partially) mediated through their effects cholesterol, it may well be that coconut oil proves beneficial despite its high level of saturated fatty acids. I just don't think that there is enough conclusive evidence right now for the "coconut oil miracle" proclaimed by some authors and to recommend coconut oil - or even red palm oil - as a main dietary staple.

 

I agree with cheezeweezel, however, that there is such evidence for the health benefits of virgin olive oil, which, moreover, is consistent with our knowledge on fatty acids. As I wrote elsewhere, I use olive oil, canola oil and pastured butter (for which - vegans beware! - there is increasing evidence for its lack of atherogenicity and beneficial effects as well) as my main dietary fats. And I use both coconut oil and red palm oil occasionally, as well as some unrefined seed oils (flax, pumpkin, hemp and sesame) both to add variety to the diet and for their nutritional properties.

Edited by timar, 27 April 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[Chupo]

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

 

 

 

[timar]

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

Actually, coconut oil is not ketogenic unless you eat an extremely low carb diet. Your liver doesn't produce any ketone bodies, even from MCT, if there are enough carbohydrates around. A ketogenic diet holds much promise for the treatment of epilepsy and cancer but I don't think that it is advisable for a healthy person to eat that way if he or she wants to stay healthy as long as possible

[Chupo]

 

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

Actually, coconut oil is not ketogenic unless you eat an extremely low carb diet. Your liver doesn't produce any ketone bodies, even from MCT, if there are enough carbohydrates around. A ketogenic diet holds much promise for the treatment of epilepsy and cancer but I don't think that it is advisable for a healthy person to eat that way if he or she wants to stay healthy as long as possible

 

 

Short and medium chain triglyceride are metabolized differently form from long chain fats. They are ketogenic even when glycogen stores are full.

[TheFountain]

 

 

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

Actually, coconut oil is not ketogenic unless you eat an extremely low carb diet. Your liver doesn't produce any ketone bodies, even from MCT, if there are enough carbohydrates around. A ketogenic diet holds much promise for the treatment of epilepsy and cancer but I don't think that it is advisable for a healthy person to eat that way if he or she wants to stay healthy as long as possible

 

 

Short and medium chain triglyceride are metabolized differently form from long chain fats. They are ketogenic even when glycogen stores are full.

 

If coconut oil was constantly ketogenic, wouldn't everyone who consumes it regularly be a very low body fat percentage? This is not what I am seeing. 

[Chupo]

 

 

 

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

Actually, coconut oil is not ketogenic unless you eat an extremely low carb diet. Your liver doesn't produce any ketone bodies, even from MCT, if there are enough carbohydrates around. A ketogenic diet holds much promise for the treatment of epilepsy and cancer but I don't think that it is advisable for a healthy person to eat that way if he or she wants to stay healthy as long as possible

 

 

Short and medium chain triglyceride are metabolized differently form from long chain fats. They are ketogenic even when glycogen stores are full.

 

If coconut oil was constantly ketogenic, wouldn't everyone who consumes it regularly be a very low body fat percentage? This is not what I am seeing. 

 

 

It's probably relative.  MCT oil does lead to greater fat loss than olive oil. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18326600

 

[timar]

They are ketogenic even when glycogen stores are full.

 

Can you provide any scientific references for that claim?

 

Edited by timar, 27 April 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Chupo]

OBJECTIVE:

In humans consuming a normal diet, we investigated 1) the capacity of a medium-chain triacylglycerol (MCT) supplement to stimulate and sustain ketonemia, 2) ¹³C-β-hydroxybutyrate and ¹³C-trioctanoate metabolism, and 3) the theoretical contribution of the degree of ketonemia achieved to brain energy metabolism.

 

METHODS:

Eight healthy adults (26 ± 1 y old) were given an MCT supplement for 4 wk (4 times/d; total of 20 g/d for 1 wk followed by 30 g/d for 3 wk). Ketones, glucose, triacylglycerols, cholesterol, free fatty acids, and insulin were measured over 8 h during two separate metabolic study days before and after MCT supplementation. Using isotope ratio mass spectroscopy, ¹³C-D-β-hydroxybutyrate and ¹³C-trioctanoate β-oxidation to ¹³CO₂ was measured over 12 h on the pre- and post-MCT metabolic study days.

 

RESULTS:

On the post-MCT metabolic study day, plasma ketones (β-hydroxybutyrate plus acetoacetate) peaked at 476 μM, with a mean value throughout the study day of 290 μM. Post-MCT, ¹³C-trioctanoate β-oxidation was significantly lower 1 to 8 h later but higher 10 to 12 h later. MCT supplementation did not significantly alter ¹³C-D-β-hydroxybutyrate oxidation.

 

CONCLUSIONS:

This MCT supplementation protocol was mildly and safely ketogenic and had no side effects in healthy humans on their regular diet. This degree of ketonemia is estimated to contribute up to 8% to 9% of brain energy metabolism.

 

 

Stimulation of mild, sustained ketonemia by medium-chain triacylglycerols in healthy humans: estimated potential contribution to brain energy metabolism.

Edited by Chupo, 27 April 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[TheFountain]

 

 

 

 

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

Actually, coconut oil is not ketogenic unless you eat an extremely low carb diet. Your liver doesn't produce any ketone bodies, even from MCT, if there are enough carbohydrates around. A ketogenic diet holds much promise for the treatment of epilepsy and cancer but I don't think that it is advisable for a healthy person to eat that way if he or she wants to stay healthy as long as possible

 

 

Short and medium chain triglyceride are metabolized differently form from long chain fats. They are ketogenic even when glycogen stores are full.

 

If coconut oil was constantly ketogenic, wouldn't everyone who consumes it regularly be a very low body fat percentage? This is not what I am seeing. 

 

 

It's probably relative.  MCT oil does lead to greater fat loss than olive oil. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18326600

 

 

 

 

What Apoliprotein phenotype was the sample group? 

[timar]

Interesting, thank you. I would have thought that such significant ketonemia requires fasting or a ketogenic diet. 30 g would roughly equal 50 g of coconut oil, which is quite a lot. Still the benefits are largely hypothetical and have to be weighted against possible detriments.

 

[TheFountain]

and have to be weighted against possible detriments.

 

Such as? 

[TheFountain]

has anybody tried coconut butter? I just bought some the other day. 

 

It is less conducive to nausea than coconut oil, at least for me. 

 

It is a bit drier and thicker too. Does not liquify at room temperature because of the pulp. Still has that lovely coconut flavor. 

 

I think this tastes better with chocolate than coconut oil for sure. 

 

Think nut butter but made of coconut instead of cashew or almond or peanuts. 

[TheFountain]

The only thing is, if you try Coconut butter, make sure it is not warm because it becomes sludgy when warm and can be very difficult to swallow due to its dryness. So you wanna eat it somewhat cooled. I almost choked on room temp coconut oil tonight. And I mean room temp before I put my A/C on. 

[Logic]

I have seen a bad case of flu clear up about an hour after taking a tablespoon full of EVCO on/in coffee,  much to the surprise of the host! 

 

This as proof that EVCO or some of its constituents (Lauric Carpic acid etc.) is effective at stripping the lipid layer off of at least one type of lipid coated virus.
The list of lipid coated virii includes AIDS and CMV (CMV is said to be the virus most responsible for wearing out everyone's immune system.

 

I have also experienced the start of a fever blister disappear after taking EVCO and applying it topically.

There is no doubt that the cooking oils one gets in the supermarket are far more unhealthy than EVCO so its an easy choice for me to use EVCO instead.

Olive oil is great on salads, but often adulterated with other oils and does not handle the heat of cooking well.

I have not been able to locate a source of red palm oil, but would like to try it.

[joelcairo]

I have seen a bad case of flu clear up about an hour after taking a tablespoon full of EVCO on/in coffee,  much to the surprise of the host! 

 

One hour? Maybe certain symptoms were alleviated that quickly, but even if the coconut oil had instantaneously killed every flu virus in the body, it would take longer than that for the cure to become apparent.

[Logic]

One hour? Maybe certain symptoms were alleviated that quickly, but even if the coconut oil had instantaneously killed every flu virus in the body, it would take longer than that for the cure to become apparent.

 

 

I can only report what I experienced.

This guy was very ill and feeling very sorry for himself; one hour later he was much improved and absolutely amazed.  I don't think he or I would call him completely cured and back to his old self, but very much better; as in well on the road to recovery.  He boarded a plane and went back to Durban about 2 hours after taking the oil.  He was still much better and clutching his bottle of EVCO to his heart last I saw him, but I cannot tell you what happened after that as I don't now.

 

My take on this is that the lipid layer disguises the virus as a nutrient, which serves a dual purpose:

Firstly ones immune system does not attack the virus and secondly cells, thinking the virus a nutrient, allow it to dock with and infect them. This turns said cell into a virus factory.  When you break this cycle; the infection is dead in the water: 

Even if it evades the immune system long enough to get to a cell, it cant dock with the cell and infect it.

 

Its important to be clear about the fact that EVCO does not kill the virus;  it simply exposes it for what it is to your immune system and gives the immune system ample time (unable to dock)  to come up with an antibody.

 

This is a very simplistic but easy to understand explanation.  I am sure someone here can add to and improve on it.

[rwac]

 

I have seen a bad case of flu clear up about an hour after taking a tablespoon full of EVCO on/in coffee,  much to the surprise of the host! 

 

One hour? Maybe certain symptoms were alleviated that quickly, but even if the coconut oil had instantaneously killed every flu virus in the body, it would take longer than that for the cure to become apparent.

 

 

There's one theory that says that cold/flus are actually due to endotoxin in the gut. Hitting the gut with a anti-microbial like coconut oil at the right time can help. There's also a study that claims antibiotics can shorten the duration of a flu(or was it a cold) in about half the people. So colds are more complicated than they appear.

[Logic]

There's one theory that says that cold/flus are actually due to endotoxin in the gut. Hitting the gut with a anti-microbial like coconut oil at the right time can help. There's also a study that claims antibiotics can shorten the duration of a flu(or was it a cold) in about half the people. So colds are more complicated than they appear.

 

 

The simple answer is that colds are not caused by a lipid coated virus; so EVCO wont work for them.
 

[Chupo]

Anyone who likes fried food, especially from restaurants where the oil is heated all day long, may want to eat virgin coconut oil along with it.  This study found that VCO prevented many of the negative effects of consuming palm oil that had been heated five times. 

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3687594/

[Darryl]

Phonecis: Coconut oil is 0.6 % caproic acid (C6:0), 7.5 % caprylic acid (C8:0), 6.0 % capric acid (C10:0), 44.6 % lauric acid (C12:0), 16.8 % myristic acid (C14:0), 8.2 % palmitic acid (C16:0), 2.8 % stearic acid (C18:0), 5.8 % oleic acid (C18:1)

 

The 14% C6-C10 medium chain fats may or may not be benign, but I believe the 72% C12-18 saturated fats definitely aren't. Mechanistic studies demonstrate these fats impair hepatic LDL receptor expression and increase LDL (C14 > C16 > C12), increase inflammation via Toll-like receptors directly, Coconut oil itelf interferes with anti-inflammatory properties of HDL and endothelial function, while increasing intestinal endotoxin transport and postprandial endotoxemia. Both direct TLR activation and ceramide metabolites (esp of C16-18) are implicated in insulin resistance. Adding coconut oil to animal diets efficiently induces atherosclerosis and insulin resistance. In humans, the dietary thresholds for adverse CVD effects are probably lower for those for insulin sensitivity and perhaps level off, as CVD effects are most significant comparing very low intakes of traditional or low-fat vegetarian diets (3-6% SFAs) against the Western range (8-15% SFAs), while insulin resistance effects are fairly significant even within the Western dietary range.

 

While I've removed coconut products from my diet (I miss clearing out my refrigerator with easy Thai curries), I think some good can come of all those experimenting with coconut oil supplementation should they be enlisted in a long-term prospective cohort.

[APBT]

FWIW, here is a (pro) write-up on coconut oil.

http://www.foundmyfi..._Oil_Report.pdf

Edited by APBT, 19 June 2014 - 12:14 AM.

[JohnD60]

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming this is correct, I think one could assume the same claim as to butter. It has a similar fatty acid profile to Coconut Oil, just lower in medium chain triglycerides. From memory... Coconut oil is 40% MCTs, Butter is 20% MCTs
 

[TheFountain]

 

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming this is correct, I think one could assume the same claim as to butter. It has a similar fatty acid profile to Coconut Oil, just lower in medium chain triglycerides. From memory... Coconut oil is 40% MCTs, Butter is 20% MCTs
 

 

But it's the MCT's that likely make coconut oil ketogenic, supposedly. 

 

Maybe the fact that here are twice as many has something to do with it. 

[aribadabar]

If coconut oil is antimicrobial, (how) is it beneficial for the good gut bacteria types? Is it only attacking the "bad guys"?

Edited by aribadabar, 20 September 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[Clacksberg]

Fascinating Thread this!

[niner]

 

Coconut oil is ketogenic. Ketones have recently been shown to slow cancer growth even on a high carb diet.

Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer

 

Assuming this is correct, I think one could assume the same claim as to butter. It has a similar fatty acid profile to Coconut Oil, just lower in medium chain triglycerides. From memory... Coconut oil is 40% MCTs, Butter is 20% MCTs

 

If you define MCT as 6-10 carbons in the fatty acid backbone, then coconut oil is 12-20% MCT.  If you include C12 (lauric acid) in the definition of MCT, then coconut oil is 56-72% MCT.  Data from here.

[Logic]

Phonecis: Coconut oil is 0.6 % caproic acid (C6:0), 7.5 % caprylic acid (C8:0), 6.0 % capric acid (C10:0), 44.6 % lauric acid (C12:0), 16.8 % myristic acid (C14:0), 8.2 % palmitic acid (C16:0), 2.8 % stearic acid (C18:0), 5.8 % oleic acid (C18:1)
 
The 14% C6-C10 medium chain fats may or may not be benign, but I believe the 72% C12-18 saturated fats definitely aren't. Mechanistic studies demonstrate these fats impair hepatic LDL receptor expression and increase LDL (C14 > C16 > C12), increase inflammation via Toll-like receptors directly, Coconut oil itelf interferes with anti-inflammatory properties of HDL and endothelial function, while increasing intestinal endotoxin transport and postprandial endotoxemia. Both direct TLR activation and ceramide metabolites (esp of C16-18) are implicated in insulin resistance. Adding coconut oil to animal diets efficiently induces atherosclerosis and insulin resistance. In humans, the dietary thresholds for adverse CVD effects are probably lower for those for insulin sensitivity and perhaps level off, as CVD effects are most significant comparing very low intakes of traditional or low-fat vegetarian diets (3-6% SFAs) against the Western range (8-15% SFAs), while insulin resistance effects are fairly significant even within the Western dietary range.
 
While I've removed coconut products from my diet (I miss clearing out my refrigerator with easy Thai curries), I think some good can come of all those experimenting with coconut oil supplementation should they be enlisted in a long-term prospective cohort.

The links provided don't go to specific studies?

Other things to consider:

• Is the CO in these studies EVCO?
• Have you considered the fact that EVCO contains almost no natural vitamin E, unlike Olive Oil and that most here supplement?
• Unlike other species, humans are known to heat oils for cooking purposes. Do any of these studies take this into consideration as EVCO is known to be one of the most stable oils when heated?

Here is a good argument on this:
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=686989