1229 replies to this topic

[mag1]

Sorry how does this relate to Alzheimer's?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20171955

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/26537817

[mag1]

2Al +  Ca (OH)₂ +  6H₂O  →  Ca [Al (OH)₄]₂ +  3H₂.

 

Is it really that easy?

 

A plastic pop bottle, aluminum powder and calcium hydroxide?

(It was 0.49 g Aluminum and .16g calcium hydroxide?)

 

Any ideas on a gas permeable film or non-woven fabric?

 

Aluminum powder and calcium hydroxide?

Where might they be sold?

[mag1]

Is there not a simpler and safer way of making hydrogen water?

 

Simply electrolysis of water?

[mag1]

This is interesting.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3309943/

 

This method shows how to measure the hydrogen content of water.

They do this by reducing methylene blue to leucomethylene blue.

Wasn't there something about leuco earlier in this thread?

[Bryan_S]

Experimental drug targeting Alzheimer's disease shows anti-aging effects

http://medicalxpress...anti-aging.html

 

This article was very vague so I did some digging.

 

http://www.impactagi.../pdf/100838.pdf Wow they are really keeping a hat on this.

 

I went back a few years and found this: http://onlinelibrary...cel.12185/full 

 

So I'll just say these guys have been looking at neuroprotective compounds for some time.

 

http://www.researchg...._Tom_e_Prncipe

 

Maybe they're on to something guys, we'll know after the human trials.

[mag1]

Has the Alzheimer epidemic just ended?

We already know enough of the genetics of Alzheimer's to prevent it, if only we could do some gene editting.

 

http://www.nature.co...ature11283.html

 

APOE epsilon 4 also springs to mind

 

Could always gene edit to delay onset by 10 years

http://medicalxpress...er-disease.html

 

https://www.indiegog...ence-by-doing#/

 

[mag1]

Remember this one?

 

http://alzheimersnew...isease-in-mice/

 

Idea might be gaining ground

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/26577926

 

DFMO. Hirsutism?

https://en.wikipedia...sease_treatment

[resveratrol_guy]

Experimental drug targeting Alzheimer's disease shows anti-aging effects

http://medicalxpress...anti-aging.html

 

This article was very vague so I did some digging.

 

http://www.impactagi.../pdf/100838.pdf Wow they are really keeping a hat on this.

 

I went back a few years and found this: http://onlinelibrary...cel.12185/full 

 

So I'll just say these guys have been looking at neuroprotective compounds for some time.

 

http://www.researchg...._Tom_e_Prncipe

 

Maybe they're on to something guys, we'll know after the human trials.

 

 

So this is our beloved J147. It seems to be a curcumin derivative. Not surprisingly, given the article you cited above and the night-and-day mouse comparison, this substance may have antiaging effects of a systemic nature beyond the brain itself because, frankly, that's what lipidated curcumin already does in rodent studies. I took about 20 grams of Longvida curcumin for 40 days in a row (a whole bottle of Curcubrain a day). Now, while I don't go that high anymore, I still eat the stuff like candy, especially when I notice any headache or mental incompetence. Personally, it ranks with nicotinamide riboside and organic eggs for providing a cognitive boost within digestive time.

 

Back to J147. Why should we expect it to be much better than curcumin? Maybe it's more efficient in the sense that less is more, but I have no reason to believe that it's fundamentally different, e.g. it targets mTOR instead of SIRT2. I expect that eating sufficiently much lipidated curcumin will produce the same effect for less money than this stuff will cost when the FDA approves it and locks it aaway from everyone but those too sick to benefit.

 

But I certainly don't think this news about J147 is moot or irrelevant. I just think that's it's better read through the eyes of a curcumin enthusiast, i.e. this is what we should reasonably expect, given sufficient dosing of lipdidated curcumin. That much is inspiring if in fact the mouse results map well to humans. Based on my own experience, I would expect so, at least with respect to cognition.
 

Now, there is always Pascal's wager. Perhaps J147 is radically different in the pathways it targets. But I see no evidence either way.

 

BTW your third link is invalid. I think you meant this article. But it's about fisetin. I don't see the connection. Which means it's time for another Longvida...

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 22 November 2015 - 04:12 AM.

[mag1]

Hey, res, I am getting all ready for some early New Year's Resolutions.

Is it legal to make New Year's Resolutions in November?

 

I am thinking of finally getting around to making some of that liposomal curcumin.

I want to feel what you are talking about with the cognitive effect.

When I snorted curcumin a while back I just got a bad headache.

 

So, have you any suggestions on making the liposomal curcumin?

Jeweler polishers?

[resveratrol_guy]

Hey, res, I am getting all ready for some early New Year's Resolutions.

Is it legal to make New Year's Resolutions in November?

 

I am thinking of finally getting around to making some of that liposomal curcumin.

I want to feel what you are talking about with the cognitive effect.

When I snorted curcumin a while back I just got a bad headache.

 

So, have you any suggestions on making the liposomal curcumin?

Jeweler polishers?

 

Well, while you can certainly sonicate some other substances in lipophilic media, creating an emulsion, the process of lipidating curcumin to biological effect is much more difficult (or at least, I've been suckered into believing that). See this video, which has some information on this as applies to Longvida. Revgenetics' Metacurcumin, which is lipidated using a different process, is worth a look as well.

 

I wouldn't snort curcumin because it's not likely to pass through the olfactory bulb and into the brain without proper lipidation. That, and your curcumin might contain crytalline silica (thanks, Bryan_S) which should not be inhaled.

 

I should note that somewhere on the order of 10-100 uM concentration in the brain, curcumin starts to destroy neurons. But this is probably 10-100X the concentration I reached by consuming an entire bottle. I'm just saying. Don't make a 99% curcumin milk shake!

 

So, no, I have no advice for you, unless you can figure out a better way to lipidate it than the existing relatively affordable products offer. But to prove that would require lots of expensive blood tests.

[Bryan_S]

DNA repair protein BRCA1 implicated in cognitive function and dementia

 

http://medicalxpress...-cognitive.html

 

BRCA1 is another NAD dependent enzyme.

 

Reduced levels of BRCA1 (red) in neurons (blue). Amyloid-beta plaques in the brain can deplete neurons of BRCA1, potentially contributing to cognitive deficits in Alzheimer's disease. Credit: Elsa Suberbielle

[resveratrol_guy]

It's cool to think that we might reduce the risk of cancer and Alzheimer's alike by buttressing BCRA1 production. This sounds like a job for BioViva, if in fact the group's current attempt to do just that in rodents pans out. (As of now, they've only shown that defficiency is associated with disease.)

 

As a cheaper and more direct approach, I wonder if we can just eat or inject this stuff. Again, I'm waiting for the next rodent trial.

[mag1]

I was surprised how many BRCA variants are loved one with dementia has in their exome file.

Many of these are rare.

Strangely, cancer has not been much of a problem for our family member.

 

Here is one of them from the VCF file.

 

chr17    41223094    rs1799966    T    C    1862.34    PASS    BaseQRankSum=0.451;DP=73;Dels=0.00;FS=4.162;HRun=1;HaplotypeScore=1.6648;MQ=59;MQ0=0;MQRankSum=-0.356;QD=25.51;ReadPosRankSum=-0.973;SB=-1020.42;AF=0.33;EVS=0|140.0|6503;GMAF=C|0.3274;clinvar=unknown:non-pathogenic;CSQT=BRCA1|NM_007300.3|missense_variant    GT:AD:DP:GQ:PL:MQ:GQX:VF    1/1:1,72:73:99:1895,101,0:59:99:0.986
 

Edited by mag1, 30 November 2015 - 11:10 PM.

[ceridwen]

I can't afford to wait

[Yeshe Rabsal]

Edit: I just found (through Google not LongeCity search) a post from 2013 on this chemical, so perhaps disregard this post.

 

Here is a link to the earlier post: 

 

http://www.longecity...rcumin-extract/

 

 

Has anyone heard about this new potential Alzheimer treatment, J147?  

 

I thought y'all might find this of interest.

 

Personally, beyond wanting something like this to help people with the disease, I am interested in trying something like this for enhancement. 

 

Here is the link to the article  (full text is included below): 

 

http://www.scienceal...rticleReadMore 

 

Experimental Alzheimer’s drug shows anti-ageing effects, surprising researchers

Human trials to begin next year.

 

PETER DOCKRILL

14 NOV 2015

9.7k 

We know that Alzheimer’s disease is linked to ageing, in that the elderly are most susceptible to experiencing the disorder, but just how deep are the ties?

A new study by researchers in the US explains more about the relationship between ageing and Alzheimer’s, with continued testing of an experimental drug candidate called J147 revealing unforeseen benefits in the latest research. In testing on rodents, the drug surprised researchers by showing unexpected anti-ageing effects on mice.

 

When the animals were treated with J147 they showed better memory and cognition, healthier blood vessels in the brain, and other improved physiological features.

“Initially, the impetus was to test this drug in a novel animal model that was more similar to 99 percent of Alzheimer’s cases,” said Antonio Currais, a researcher in the Cellular Neurobiology Laboratory at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in California. “We did not predict we’d see this sort of anti-ageing effect, but J147 made old mice look like they were young, based upon a number of physiological parameters.”

J147 takes a different approach to many other drugs developed to combat Alzheimer’s disease. “While most drugs developed in the past 20 years target the amyloid plaque deposits in the brain (which are a hallmark of the disease), none have proven effective in the clinic,” said David Schubert, senior author of the study. Instead, the treatment focuses on what the researchers say is the most obvious major risk factor for the disease: old age.

J147 was initially synthesised by using cell-based screens against old-age-associated brain toxicities. In the latest study, the researchers tested the efficacy of the treatment by tracking the progression of three groups of rapidly ageing mice. One group were young mice, one were old mice, and the final group were old mice on a diet which included J147.

In a set of experiments designed to test the animals’ memory, cognition and motor movements, the old mice fed J147 showed better performance and also displayed fewer pathological signs of Alzheimer’s disease in their brains. Further, many aspects of the J147-fed mice’s gene expression and metabolism – including increased energy metabolism, reduced brain inflammation and reduced levels of oxidised fatty acids in the brain – were similar to that of the younger mice.

Less leakage of blood from the microvessels in the brain was another bonus stemming from the drug. “Damaged blood vessels are a common feature of ageing in general, and in Alzheimer’s, it is frequently much worse,” said Currais.

The research, which is published in Aging, is set to continue in 2016, with the first human trials hoped to replicate these exciting effects so far seen in rodents. “If proven safe and effective for Alzheimer’s, the apparent anti-ageing effect of J147 would be a welcome benefit,” said Schubert.

 

Edited by Yeshe Rabsal, 02 December 2015 - 07:22 PM.

[aribadabar]

 

Has anyone heard about this new potential Alzheimer treatment, J147?  

 

 

 

No, just here, here, and here 

 

Google searching works within Longecity topics too.

[Yeshe Rabsal]

Yeah I edited my post and added a link to one of those, I originally used the LongeCity search function for "J147" which threw back zero hits, after posting I found one of the previous posts through Google. 

[Logic]

Yeah I edited my post and added a link to one of those, I originally used the LongeCity search function for "J147" which threw back zero hits, after posting I found one of the previous posts through Google. 

 

One of the choices if you click search in the top (right) menu is GoogleSiteSearch.  Invaluable IMHO.

NB:
http://www.longecity...nium-from-body/

"...preliminary evidence that over 12 weeks of silicon-rich mineral water therapy the body burden of aluminum fell in individuals with Alzheimer's disease and, concomitantly, cognitive performance showed clinically relevant improvements in at least 3 out of 15 individuals..."

[mag1]

http://www.mdpi.com/...3/7/12/5513/htm

[resveratrol_guy]

http://www.mdpi.com/...3/7/12/5513/htm

 

Next time please add keywords (copper) so people can find this via local search.

 

I don't think that this emerging science is getting enough press. Frankly, if the epidemiology translates to causation, copper-2 ions could be the next transfat. The lawyers must be salivating...

 

The notion that AD is correlated to increased fat intake, while probably true, is certainly misleading, as the study seems to conflate all forms of fat, saturated and polyunsaturated, cooked and uncooked, and the protein, acrylamide, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons to which it is usually attached in the SAD diet. But otherwise this is a bombshell paper.

 

Wow: "(1) The blood free copper pool in AD patients is significantly increased in size compared to age-matched controls [1]; (2) The size of the blood free copper pool in AD patients correlates with measures of cognition, that is, the higher the blood free copper pool, the poorer the cognition [2]; (3) The blood free copper pool predicts the rate of cognition loss over time, that is, the higher the blood free copper cool the greater the rate of cognition loss [3]; (4) The size of the blood free copper pool predicts the risk for the conversion of mild cognitively impaired (MCI) patients, the precursor state to AD, to full AD, that is, the greater the free copper pool, the higher the risk of conversion [4]." Note that "blood free copper" actually refers to copper loosely bound to proteins which is substantially bioavailable, but not actually free aqueous ions.

 

Anecdotally, I've noticed many times how 50 mg of zinc gluconate seemed to boost my cognition for about a day. One possible explanation is competition with copper-2 in my previous multivitamin. Now that I've switched to copper-free (but zincful) multivitamins, the effect seems to have disappeared, leaving me feeling happily "zincy" pretty much all the time. Evolutionarily, all this makes sense from the standpoint of much richer seafood (especially oyster) consumption paleolithically, which would have overridden copper toxicity with zincfulness, not to mention the absence of multivitamins and plumbing.

 

That said, let me underscore that copper-1 is a necessary nutrient; defficiency can lead to arrythmia and death. So eat your veggies (without copper sulphate pesticide).

 

This all makes me wonder about the role of manganese and iron from multivitamins and plumbing, as well. And while we're at it, those of you who have titanium implants should be aware that they leach into the bloodstream and might contribute to a host of medical conditions over time.

 

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck...

 

[mag1]

The rabbit study using high fat and copper that came out about 10 years ago gave me the chills.

These rabbits developed dementing illness which at the time seemed surprising.

This article explained how even a small amount of copper-2 could result in dementia.

 

I remember at the time asking for a copper free multivitamin, the pharmacy thought this was weird.

I think you are right about going the legal route with this one: if the FDA and others pretend they do not 

what the risks of copper are now that they research has evolved over all these years, it is time to escalate the 

activism. A class action suit launched against the supplement makers might bring about change.

 

The research has already gotten me worried. Our loved one with severe dementia is double homozygous for the two

major risk SNPs in ATP7B (i.e. 472 GG, 774 AA). Anyone know anything about reverse osmosis filters. It is either that

or ripping out our copper plumbing.

 

I was trying to think through the zinc angle. We have zinc on hand, though I am sure whether it is as simple as zinc good

copper bad.  Low copper levels seen in Menkes disease results in neurological impairments.

 

Look at the haplotypes in Table 3.

All 4 of these SNPs are on 23andme.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3582274/

 

The article I originally cited did not have much issue with copper-1. The article noted that lab animals are typically fed 3-6 ppm

chow which has no influence on dementia risk. It was only when they added in 0.12 ppm copper-2 in the water that dementia

appeared. So, I am fairly freaked out by this research and it seems this has been understood by the research community for many

years. It is possibly all about how to cash out on this. It would save a massive amount of money if people picked up on this research

and outlawed copper-2 in supplements and mandated osmosis filters in houses.

[mag1]

Just tore the house apart to find a bottle of zinc citrate 50mg.

 

The caution on the bottle offers more a sense of relief than warning:

"Zinc supplementation many cause a copper deficiency."

 

Though caution is warranted:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21660014

 

Edited by mag1, 13 December 2015 - 02:43 AM.

[mag1]

This has been out there in the AD research community for quite a while.

http://www.jbc.org/c...4/52/37111.long

 

It would be very interesting if there were some strange place somewhere that for whatever reason was outside of the copper-2 context that

exhibited very low rates of dementia. The article noted that Japan avoided copper plumbing. Wonder whether there might be other places in Western

nations.

[ceridwen]

You've put me right off my Christmas dinner!My copper levels were raised by half as much as they should be on my last blood test in the early summer. I dread to think what my levels are like now. My homocystine was raised too. After reading this I have no doubt my copper levels are rising. My disease is worsening fast I feel particularly ill and stupid today. There is a lot of pain in my head right now.

I don't take copper supplements nor do I have copper pipes. I'll become vegetarian and take zinc! How much zinc would be necessary to reduce my copper levels as rapidly as possible? I do eat fruit without washing it sometimes and chocolate has been a staple food.

Then get back to you I hope.

I fear however that your analysis is not correct for don't vegetarians also get AD? Hoping it is correct though. Desperate but happy to help.

Could someone put up a copper food index please?

[ceridwen]

@mag1 I just did that too. It took me quiet a while to find. I can't remember where I've left anything. I don't think 1 tab has done anything. I suppose it will take a long time to even recoop some of the damage. It would be such a massive relief if it works.

[ceridwen]

Maybe we could sue the big chocolate factories for millions in damages?

[ceridwen]

I ate so much chocolate!!!!!! Oh my God. How awful

[mag1]

The first article that was cited noted that the real breakthrough in thinking concerns copper-2. Overall copper levels might not be that 

informative. I am not quite sure what test you would need to determine the copper-2 levels. It is not entirely clear to me whether this is

a test that is typically done in a lab.

 

Some of the research has referred to this as Copper AD. There are a whole bunch of different ways of winding up with an Alzheimer type

dementia - for instance AIDS, prion disease etc. So, vegetarians and others might still develop dementia from a route apart from copper.

Also would be good to consider different genetic risk factors. In one of the articles I cited above they noted that there was a haplotype of 4 

SNPs all on the 23andme v3 gene chip that appeared to relate to quite a bit of risk for AD.

 

Also the LRP1 gene.

http://www.scienceda...30819171636.htm

 

I think part of the problem is that the FDA only allows monotherapy approaches in clinical trials.

If you could include very specific genotypes in trials with multiple interventions, you might see truly large effects.

So, if you could find those with certain haplotypes in the ATP7B gene possibly combined with other synergistically risk increasing genotypes in 

the LRP1 gene etc., add in reverse osmosis water filtration, no copper supplementation, also reducing other possibly damaging metal exposures

such as iron etc. there could be some very interesting results.

 

Well, I guess we should warn about taking the zinc,as there can be dangers with that as well, though I think I have noticed what resguy was talking about  with the zincy happy brain feel. I am still not totally sure whether simply taking zinc is the way to go. An article I cited above noted that people who consumed a lot of zinc through their denture creams actually ran into troubles.

 

 

ceridwen, you said that you do not have copper pipes! That is very interesting. From what I have been reading on the internet virtually everyone now has copper plumbing.It would be very interesting to know the dementia rates in your community. There might not be that many places in the world aside from the so called undeveloped world where people have not modernized with copper pipes. I wonder how you still have high copper levels, though there are probably a whole lot of other sources. It would be interesting to know whether you have been exposed to copper-2.

 

Edited by mag1, 13 December 2015 - 04:06 AM.

[ceridwen]

Alcohol coffee and sugar all deplete zinc.

[ceridwen]

I think the pipes for the main water supply are plastic. There are some copper pipes in connection with the boiler used for heating.