1229 replies to this topic

[ceridwen]

I have a bit of a movement disorder too plus the confusion and memory loss

[mag1]

Our loved one has some seizure activity.

This is somewhat common in dementia.

[ceridwen]

I suffered chronic memory loss all my life suddenly it became much more severe.
I keep thinking that I shall too but not yet. It hurts.

[mag1]

What is your MMSE score?

The test is available online.

[ceridwen]

Sorry about my response but chocolate having copper2 in it explains everything to me all my life I actually thought it was good for memory loss and ate some everyday. I didn't just eat a little either. Now I have cognitive decline. I did not know why but reading the links here has made perfect sense to me. I am afraid of dying because there is so much inflammation in my head over the last 2 years. Very frightening and don't seem to be able to switch it off.

[mag1]

Don't take it so bad.

Chocolate is probably not really overly horrible.

It actually has a lot of antioxidants.

 

As I said what they have really found is that it is a whole bunch of things that converge together.

If it was as simple as eating too much chocolate causes AD they would have known that years ago. 

[aribadabar]

Don't take it so bad.

Chocolate is probably not really overly horrible.

It actually has a lot of antioxidants.

 

As I said what they have really found is that it is a whole bunch of things that converge together.

If it was as simple as eating too much chocolate causes AD they would have known that years ago. 

 

Exactly !

At 1kg of dark chocolate per week, Madame Calment did pretty good mentally-wise so I think this "(dark) chocolate is bad" meme is a red herring and it should be ignored.

Now red meat is whole another matter.

 

You need a "perfect storm" of confluent factors (genetic, environmental and dietary, in that order) to get a full-blown early-onset AD pathology.

[ceridwen]

Well to be honest it is just a little lower than normal but I have difficulty remembering what happened the previous day and what was in my fridge.I have lost chunks of memory and can't remember where I've left anything. I do make many cognitive mistakes. The tinnitus inside my head hurts a lot.. The symptoms are the same as my Aunts who had everyone said was Alzheimer's and she ended up forgetting everything and died in an old people's home.I discuss ed her symptoms with her in the early stages. Now I have her symptoms but no diagnosis. I certainly feel my brain is dying because of intense pain,tinnitus and not being able to remember what I used to be able to remember.Perhaps it is an unusual form of Alzheimer's. Her husband could afford the best medical care for her when it started but she still ended up like your relative. With all my horrible symptoms though my I am expecting to go just like her because they are the same.

[ceridwen]

Madame Calment did not have the genetic defect maybe I do. I am begginning to find talking difficult and make more typos than I used to. Both I and my Aunt had terrible memories before dementia hit. She also went through an illness at menopause like I am doing now and told me that is when the dementia started for her. I wondered if it could be some sort of infection actually.

[ceridwen]

They probably put a lot more fat in milk chocolate in recent years I have been looking for sugar free but that was the chocolate I liked

[ceridwen]

Anyway copper seems very bad for a large proportion of the population and no one is warned. They are told this will stave off dementia when in fact in the wrong genotypes it causes it. I used to eat chocolate every day believing chocolate would help my memory problems. I now have what feels to me like massive inflammation in my head that I can't stop!

[ceridwen]

Sorry about the rant. I'm just so shocked to know the real cause

[Turnbuckle]

One doesn't need to consume all the calories of chocolate to get its benefits, as the active ingredients can be had from other sources--Acacia Catechu extract, for instance. I find that a couple of caps of the extract (Swanson, 580 mg each) goes very well with a few grams of piracetam. See Cocoa Flavanols Boost Memory.

[ceridwen]

You must have very good genes!

[ceridwen]

I suppose that I'd only sound a little crazier if I were to say I think we are up against a conscious living virus? I think this disease is intelligent

[aribadabar]

I suppose that I'd only sound a little crazier if I were to say I think we are up against a conscious living virus? I think this disease is intelligent

 

So what your doctor have said and prescribed about your symptoms?

For such serious complications, you have not reported much medical background.

[Logic]

Nilotinib for Alzheimer's?

 

...c-Abl activation is associated with many neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4007078/

 

...Abl inhibition enhances survival of DA neurons in PD models (14). Phosphorylated Abl is present in neuronal cell bodies in Alzheimer's disease...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3723316/

 

Some easier reading:

http://www.npr.org/s...se-and-dementia

 

These guys did the study:
...Study participants with earlier stage disease responded best, as did those diagnosed with Lewy body dementia, often described as a combination of Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s diseases,” Pagan says...

https://gumc.georget...-Clinical-Trial

 

 

It did wonders for Allan's, and others, Parkinson's:

 

Alan Hoffman, PhD, a retired professor of social science education at Georgia State University, was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease in 1997 and has participated in several clinical trials with no benefit, he says, until he enrolled in Pagan’s study.

“Before the nilotinib, I did almost nothing around the house. Now, I empty the garbage, unload the dishwasher, load the washer and the dryer, set the table, even take responsibility for grilling,” he says.

In the three weeks prior to enrolling in the study, Hoffman says he fell eight times, but only fell once during six months on the study. His speech has improved, as has his thinking. 

“My wife says it’s life-changing for her and for my children and grandchildren,” Hoffman says. “To say that nilotinib has made a change in our lives is a huge understatement.”

Hoffman and other patients in the clinical trial can continue taking nilotinib (provided by Novartis) as part of an expanded access study.

https://gumc.georget...-Clinical-Trial

 

 

Edited by Logic, 15 December 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[ceridwen]

I have been trying to get a diagnosis. The Drs are baffled. I even went up to London saw a Professor at Imperial college. He told me that it's migraines

[ceridwen]

but I did not believe him because my symptoms are identical to my Aunt's who had Alzheimer's and died in a nursing home not knowing her husband eventually. We used to talk about her symptoms at length. I think it is just a rare form. Anyway the copper toxicity makes perfect sense to me not that my Aunt ate chocolate she ate meat and fat amongst other things. I don't remember her ever being spoon fed but I do remember her repeating things forgetting where she was when she was at home and wanting to go home one evening when she was at home and eventually dieing in a nursing home when she forgot who her husband was. Even presymptom stage we were both untidy and forgetful.
The copper causation makes perfect sense to me but I also wondered if this is a low level infection that can stay dormant for decades as my Aunt looked after me when I was a baby.
I have raised copper,homocystine and cholesterol.

[ceridwen]

Now my daughter is pregnant and I fear I must have a serious talk with her. My Aunt's daughter did not get Alzheimer's. She died of cancer

[ceridwen]

I forgot the reason Alzheimer patients with copper toxicity should stay away from meat.

[ceridwen]

My Aunt's illness started when she was about the same age as I am now. Everyone said it was Alzheimer's though my Mother had doubts as she had a friend with Alzheimer's who went from MCI to death in 6 months and she said she didn't think it was the same disease. My Aunt declined slowly and took a long time to die. She was in the mild stage for a long time. Occasionally her tinnitus would stop though which mine hasn't done. She talked to me about it and in the earlier stages her earlier life. She recognized me the last time we met if fact she was anxious for me to visit again which I'm sorry I never did.

[ceridwen]

I thought chocolate was good for my memory problems and feel really shocked to read it could have been the cause

[mag1]

The article that started this recent topic greatly helped clarify the copper-2 connection to AD.

 

However, things usually are more complicated.

For instance, in this clinical trial in AD patients giving a copper-2 supplement did not have a negative effect on cognition versus placebo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/18587525/

 

This seems quite surprising.

If copper-2 is so bad, then why was there not a reduction in cognition?

 

Life is complex.

Researchers have been working on the metals hypothesis of AD for many years now without a successful product.

Some of the research that I read mentioned that in severe Alzhiemer`s there is actually a copper deficit.

 

It might be that causing the dementia pandemic with copper-2 over decades might be understandable enough.

Yet, creating a pharmaceutically profitable therapeutic intervention that for copper dementia once clinical symptoms have emerged

might be nearly impossible.

 

 

Edited by mag1, 16 December 2015 - 12:08 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

I sincerely doubt that the copper-2 content in dark chocolate is anything to be concerned about. It should be tightly bound to the epicatechins. Fundamentally, we should be looking at the epidemiology for clues here. How many dark chocolate addicts are coming down with dementia at any given age, as opposed to people who don't eat chocolate? I don't know, but I do know that cocoa powder assists the dentate gyrus in its function. And at her advanced age, I don't expect that any amount of good genes would have defended Jean Calment against a century of copper-2 insult, if it were truly free copper-2. Surely, some other person with equally good genes would have lived longer by avoiding chocolate.

 

That said, milk chocolate is another story entirely, because it's loaded with sugar and dairy protein, both of which are surely contributors to AD. Here in America, milk chocolate (and chocolate milk, and chocolate-covered potato chips, etc.) is a pillar of the SAD diet.

 

[mag1]

I was staying away from chocolate for some other reason that I cannot quite remember at this time.

It appears to be loaded with iron which might not be great.

I thought there must be something else.

 

 

This article gives some background on metals in chocolate.

They found no concern with aluminium nor copper.

Though they were talking about 25g of chocolate intake.

Let's face it,some people when they go on a chocoholic bender are going to go past 25g.

 

Even I in my weaker moments have went well past 25 g.

I see to recall buying one of those big delicious holiday chocolate boxes and eating them all!

The copper in chocolate apparently is sourced from the pesticides they use.

 

http://www.sciencedi...889157511000287

 

I would be so interested in knowing places besides Japan that have avoided copper plumbing.

Perhaps 10% of Americans do not have copper plumbing, I would love to know there dementia rates.

 

Wow, are you kidding chocolate covered potato chips?!

That simply seems too too nuts for me to believe.

Sure, it would be massively addictive, though just because we can invent such yummy treats, should we?

Edited by mag1, 17 December 2015 - 03:34 AM.

[mag1]

I am so disappointed that we are now facing this uncertainty about copper-2 and Alzheimer's!

 

How could we have been so reckless to have essentially a global consensus on copper plumbing when research had never

clearly established that it would not result in dementia? (Especially given the thousands of years of history related to other

dementogenic metals in plumbing systems.) Somewhere such as California could have chosen a different path and we would

already have a long term comparison group.

 

As it is, about all we have to look forward to is the potential for truly massive class action lawsuits, if this copper-2 Alzheimer

connection could be firmly established.  

Edited by mag1, 17 December 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[aribadabar]

I was staying away from chocolate for some other reason that I cannot quite remember at this time.

It appears to be loaded with iron which might not be great.

I thought there must be something else.

 

 

This article gives some background on metals in chocolate.

They found no concern with aluminium nor copper.

Though they were talking about 25g of chocolate intake.

Let's face it,some people when they go on a chocoholic bender are going to go past 25g.

 

Even I in my weaker moments have went well past 25 g.

I see to recall buying one of those big delicious holiday chocolate boxes and eating them all!

The copper in chocolate apparently is sourced from the pesticides they use.

 

http://www.sciencedi...889157511000287

 

I would be so interested in knowing places besides Japan that have avoided copper plumbing.

Perhaps 10% of Americans do not have copper plumbing, I would love to know there dementia rates.

 

Wow, are you kidding chocolate covered potato chips?!

That simply seems too too nuts for me to believe.

Sure, it would be massively addictive, though just because we can invent such yummy treats, should we?

 

I am also guilty as charged - just gobbled 50g+ of 90 % Lindt dark chocolate ...and 15ml of C60oo - to hypothetically counteract the iron ROS reactivity.

I am not worried about copper toxicity coming from chocolate, though.

 

My tap water is filtered through the Berkey filtration system so that should remove most of the copper coming from the plumbing here and it is a reasonably priced alternative to reverse osmosis systems..

 

 

Heavy Metals:  Greater than 95% reduction for most metals

Including:  Aluminum (> 75%). Antimony (>97.5%), Barium (>80%), Cadmium (>99.5%), Cobalt (>95%), Chromium (>95%), Chromium 6 (>99.85%), Copper (>95%), Lead (>97.5%), Mercury (>98%), Molybdenum (>90%), Nickel (>95%), Vanadium (>87.5%)

[resveratrol_guy]

"The copper in chocolate apparently is sourced from the pesticides they use." -- How do you conclude that? This is paywalled. That said, pesticides probably didn't even exist for most of Jean Calment's life. It also seems likely that her cacao would have been sourced from West Africa, which pretty much until her death in 1997 was not the polluted nightmare that it is today. There is also a second possibility: enhanced cerebral circulation which assists in the removal of brain plaque, even if the copper content causes some degree of accelerated aggregation. We know, based on a wealth of evidence at this point, that dark chocolate is broadly protective of the cardiovascular system for reasons other than merely its caffeine content. Remember, too, that she consumed enough olive oil for an elephant, which means that her HDL must have been fantastic, which again reinforces the vascular hypothesis. This would be consistent with the original c60oo study, showing that olive oil, moreso than c60 itself, was responsible for the observed life extension.

 

25 g isn't much. I think Jean was eating 100 g a day, which is a standard sized chocolate bar, and would jive with the approximation of "a quarter pound a day" in the anecdotes. Now that I think about it, I do not believe it was a kilogram a week. At her weight, 100 g might be like a man eating 140 g.

 

In any event, you've raised an important point about potential toxicity. I suggest moving to an organic brand, for example, Green and Black's. (Lindt is a chemical blob in fancy packaging; look at the ingredients.) You could also make hot chocolate from one of the many organic cacao powder brands available. (Personally, I find it overpowering and intolerable, given the absence of a lethicin buffer, but if you can take it, go for it.)

 

While I don't think there are many plumbed places in the world without ubiquitous copper pipes, there are obviously plenty of places with no plumbing. Rural India is a prime example, and as we've seen, it's also a model of low dementia rates. Likewise for the Inuit in Alaska, who historically had no plumbing, plenty of seafood, and essentially no dementia. I can't think of any place on Earth, for that matter, which has Western levels of dementia yet no significant plumbing installation, apart from war zones where the dementia is induced by severe stress. Can you?

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 17 December 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[mag1]

Yeah, that was the chocolate company I was thinking about.

I once ate a whole box of their yummy products.

Would that be about a kilo?

 

Good point about the caffeine.

Research has found that coffee drinking can have large anti-dementia effects.

Perhaps this is another anti-dementia aspect of chocolate.

 

I went behind the paywall on the article.

The article talked about the copper content of chocolate originating from copper pesticides.