114 replies to this topic

[cronnie]

Hi all,

I am considering to supplemet witj Astragalus. I would like to hear
the experiences (be it placebo or real) from people alraedy using the
suppelement

Thanks!

[Anthony_Loera]

Astragalus or Astragaloside IV?

Just wondering ...



A

[cronnie]

Astragalus or Astragaloside IV or Astral Fruit ...

I am wondering what the noticeable effects of lengthening telomerase is.

Will we see hair regrowth, skin improvements, energy-effects? What are the mental effects?
That kind of thing

[simon007]

Astragalus or Astragaloside IV or Astral Fruit ...

I am wondering what the noticeable effects of lengthening telomerase is.

Will we see hair regrowth, skin improvements, energy-effects? What are the mental effects?
That kind of thing

Hi Cronnie,

I've been using astragalus root extract (gaia) for 5 months now, I use 16 ml/day(aprox. 8 fl ounces/2 week).
I rotate it in a 2 week schedule(2 weeks on, 2 weeks off).

I've lowered my fat percentage from 18 % to 12 %, I've lost 4 kg total weight.
It's a bit difficult for me to determine whether I look beter or not(I think I do :-) and a still have all my hair ), I feel good, and I never noticed any side effects.

I'm training for a 10 mile run and plan on finishing it in around an hour.

If you wan't I can post my entire regime.

Best regards,

Simon

[Anthony_Loera]

Cronnie,

as soon as I have my telomere results back from Canada, I will post them. This is the initial test for Telomere's, and I will post the results each 6 month intervals to discuss to see if Astral Fruit is working.

cheers
A

[saxiephon]

Cronnie,

as soon as I have my telomere results back from Canada, I will post them. This is the initial test for Telomere's, and I will post the results each 6 month intervals to discuss to see if Astral Fruit is working.

cheers
A

Hi Anthony,

What do you make of the following posted on the web by Eliecer Velasco and what do you expect would be the pulse timing for Astral Fruit is needed?

Two weeks using telomerase activation with astragalosides, This procedure is expected to produce telomere elongations of less than 38 base pairs per month, that is, less than 456 base pairs/year. About 50-200 telomere base pairs are typically lost per cell division, although antioxidants may reduce the loss rate. Humans have about 50 cell divisions available from the embryonic stage of development, so this procedure may outdistance the aging process, although treatment should continue for years. TA Sciences does as well as the maximum here in blood granulocytes, 230 base pairs during each 3-month telomerase-on pulse in the Patton protocol using TA-65, which is probably cycloastragenol. This corresponds to a rejuvenation rate of about 9 years backwards in time per year. GAIA Extra Strength Astragalaus Extract, 77 drops/5 mg of, 5 mg/day, or regular GAIA Astragalaus extract, 150 drops/5 mg of astrogalosides, 5 mg/day. Furthermore, it has been noted that Astragaloside IV bioavailability is improved by the addition of some powdered astragalus membranaceus root, so that an astragalus root powder capsule may be a useful supplement to our program. I might add that astragalus extract also contains Astragaloside VII, which markedly boosts the levels of Interleukin-2, also a useful telomerase activator for immune system T-cell lymphocytes. GAIA makes other astragaloside-specific astragalus extracts that may be used, including their standard Astragalus Extract and astragalus extract in glycerin. Available astragalus extract pills typically feature 1 mg astragalosides per 250 mg of extract. ( TA Sciences: A six-month cycle time using TA-65 (probably cycloastragenol 5 mg) for this procedure is called the Patton protocol, and is probably superior to the first procedure using commercially available concentrated astragalus extract taken at maximum recommended dosage equivilant to about 30 g of astragalus root. According to Geron's European patent, astragaloside IV may also be used at 50-100 mg/day. Note that astragaloside IV is more bioavailable in astragalus extract, however. Obviously, the 3-month initial ON pulse of the Patton protocol gets results more quickly. TA Sciences runs activation/deactivation for a year. It may be possible to specify effective skin treatment with astragalus root extract in glycerin or in glycerin mixed with olive oil to be used on a similar cyclic basis to reconstruct telomeres in skin or scalp cells in a way that opposes both hair greying and wrinkles. Perhaps a gensenoside-oriented telomerase activation procedure could be defined Also, note that anti-cataract eyedrops similar to carnosine eyedrops for cataracts may be fashioned from astragalosides in glycerin. Ocular keratocyte senescence would be opposed by such eyedrops. See also on telomerase expression in human hair follicles . "Intuition suggests that telomerase intervention might effectively restore hair growth in elderly males." - Michael Fossel, Cells, Aging, and Human Disease, p.160. Fossel also notes that among progerics, whose fibroblasts exhibit short telomeres, baldness is almost universal. My impression today is that telomerase activation is crucial for long-range life extension and that many other solutions are palatives by comparison. Rejuvenation Rates with Astragalus Extracts and TA-5 In treatment with telomerase activators, skin constitution is restored to young skin after about 20 population doublings are added. Note that TA Science's TA-65 (probably cycloastragenol) can add 230 base pairs to blood granulocyte telomeres in vivo in just 3 months. For typical cells on the average, 20 doubling x 50(bp/doubling) = 1000 base pairs, so that a couple of years would be typically required, since telomerase is turned on for just two 3-month periods in a year using the TA Sciences Patton Protocol. That is, they get 460 bp/year, so that 1000/460 = 2.174 > 2 years should be required to thoroughly rejuvenate typical cells with TA-65. Furthermore, we loose about 50 bp per year to normal attrition as our cells divide year by year, so over 2 years of treatment we need to tack on 100 bp just to keep up with aging. Thus about 11000/460 = 2.3913 > 2 years is a rough guide to what to expect. After 3 or 4 years of plenty of astragaloside application, we should probably expect to have achieved serious rejuvenation effects. Since 460 >> 50, we may seem to feel the second hand of the clock running backwards with TA-65 at about 9 years per year. Initial measurements seem to show that good results can be achieved with commercially available astragalus extracts in alcohol and glycerine. A chart of the count of grey hairs on the head was used, as the greying is regarded by Geron as a sign of stem cell dysfunction reversible with telomerase activation, and may follow the death rate curve mirroring the general level of the senescent cell population. On the average, 50% of persons have 50% grey hair by age 50 [Hisama, Chromosomal Instability and Aging, p.565]. Make your life extension project record book more valuable: "Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. You've got something even without that big government lab. For more measurements you can do at home, or with a little help from your friends, see Vincent Giampapa, Ronald Pero, Marcia Zimmerman, The Anti-Aging Solution, Wiley, 2004, and the blood tests and all tests available from The Life Extension Foundation, and don't miss my own LifeXLabs test descriptions. According to Geron, those grey hairs may not stay grey, although Wikipedia contends that they are due to the death of cells, which if this were true would mean grey hair is irreversible. However, melanin pill results seem to contradict this picture of non-recoverable cells. Since carnosine can change the cellular phenotype from senescent to normal, perhaps carnosine should be used together with astragaloside treatments for lengthening telomeres. Our objective is to rejuvenate senescent cells.

[cronnie]

wow saxiephon that is an awesome post. 9 years rejuvenation per year use... We ll have to stop in time XD


Anthony: cant wait for the results. When are they due?


Simon: do you feel that the astralagus helped you losing weight?

[saxiephon]

wow saxiephon that is an awesome post. 9 years rejuvenation per year use... We ll have to stop in time XD


Anthony: cant wait for the results. When are they due?


Simon: do you feel that the astralagus helped you losing weight?

Hi Cronnie,

I've been on Astral Fruit for one week but have not felt a flush of youth as yet. Hopefully by the 3-month point I'll have gotten that feeling.

FYI- I take 3 grams 99% resveratrol upon wakening and an AF capsule about 12 hours later. I know that the RV has helped over the last two years in terms of increased stamina and much less generalized discomfort when standing for long periods. Now if ASTR IV can make me younger then all is well with the world!


SAX

[ajnast4r]

I've been using astragalus root extract (gaia) for 5 months now, I use 16 ml/day(aprox. 8 fl ounces/2 week).
I rotate it in a 2 week schedule(2 weeks on, 2 weeks off)

is there a reason youre doing 2 weeks on 2 weeks off? i started taking astragalus today to help me recover from reactivated mono/epstein-barr, and i had planned on taking it continuously for the next 2 months. i had planned on taking 2 caps 2x per day of natures answer astragalus extract (250mg std astragalus @ 0.3% astragalosides + 250mg astragalus root powder) which totals about 3mg per day astragalosides.

Edited by ajnast4r, 04 September 2008 - 11:04 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Cronnie,

as soon as I have my telomere results back from Canada, I will post them. This is the initial test for Telomere's, and I will post the results each 6 month intervals to discuss to see if Astral Fruit is working.

cheers
A

Hi Anthony,

What do you make of the following posted on the web by Eliecer Velasco and what do you expect would be the pulse timing for Astral Fruit is needed?

I think Mr. Velasco has researched this quite a bit, he appears to get his information from Geron's patent, and I believe is correct regarding the amount TA Sciences uses, and the 3 month on/off procedure they use at those dosages. The only thing I would verify is how much Astragaloside IV / cycloastragenol is in GIAI astragalus extract. Might as well spend a few hundred dollars to be sure, than to simply hope it has enough.

I have spoken to the folks in Canada, and they tell me that telomere changes usually take 1 year, but sometimes 6 months can provide information into how someone is aging.



A

[saxiephon]

Cronnie,

as soon as I have my telomere results back from Canada, I will post them. This is the initial test for Telomere's, and I will post the results each 6 month intervals to discuss to see if Astral Fruit is working.

cheers
A

Hi Anthony,

What do you make of the following posted on the web by Eliecer Velasco and what do you expect would be the pulse timing for Astral Fruit is needed?

I think Mr. Velasco has researched this quite a bit, he appears to get his information from Geron's patent, and I believe is correct regarding the amount TA Sciences uses, and the 3 month on/off procedure they use at those dosages. The only thing I would verify is how much Astragaloside IV / cycloastragenol is in GIAI astragalus extract. Might as well spend a few hundred dollars to be sure, than to simply hope it has enough.

I have spoken to the folks in Canada, and they tell me that telomere changes usually take 1 year, but sometimes 6 months can provide information into how someone is aging.



A

Anthony:

So how long would you recommend staying on Astral Fruit before a break and how long should the break be before resuming?


Thanks,
SAX

[Anthony_Loera]

Currently TA uses a 3 month on/ 3 month off approach.

Astral fruit is 33mg. Because of it's lower dose and because we believe it will only activate telomerase for only part of the day, we don't have a break suggested. Although if you do want a break I would suggest a maximum of a 2 week break every 3 months. If you are taking chelators (including resveratrol) 3 hours or more after Astral Fruit, we don't think a break would be necessary.

I have mentioned a purer form of Astral Fruit in the future, and we do suggest to have a break for higher dosages. For now, if you take 1 capsule, there should be no problems.

But what is the reason for the break?
My friend (when he was in UCLA) introduced a gene in a healthy cell that should have immortalized it, but the problem is that somehow, the healthy cell "found a way" to stop growing even though telomerase was permanently activated. At higher doses (100mg or more), we believe we would want to avoid our regular healthy cells from "Finding a way" to cancel out the health benefits of Astral Fruit over a long period of time. Taking a break is a simple method to give them a rest to avoid a situation where Astral Fruit may decline in effectiveness during the course of a year.

Again, 33mg is the lowest dosage we suggest, and it should only activate the enzyme for part of the day. Chelators or Resveratrol taken 3 hours or more after Astral Fruit can also contribute and effectively help stop Astral Fruit from working for a long period of time. With this in mind, we don't think a rest is necessary at this dose.


A

[simon007]

wow saxiephon that is an awesome post. 9 years rejuvenation per year use... We ll have to stop in time XD


Anthony: cant wait for the results. When are they due?


Simon: do you feel that the astralagus helped you losing weight?

Hi Cronnie

In my regime I try to balance my insuline usage, promote HGH and telomerase.
I started with metformin and acarbose, I lost about 4 kg. Then I started with Astastragalus(been using it for 5 months), I lost 3 kg more.
A month ago I started with arginine to promote HGH, I lost 5 kg more.

I also exercise 4/5 times a week, but I was doing that long before I started the supplements

So it's the combination that did this for me, I'm 37 years old, but I feel 18 again :-))

As far as I can tell lower your blood sugar and promoting HGH and telomerase induces different repair mechanism's, but I'm not a bio scientist.

Cheers,

Simon

[simon007]

I've been using astragalus root extract (gaia) for 5 months now, I use 16 ml/day(aprox. 8 fl ounces/2 week).
I rotate it in a 2 week schedule(2 weeks on, 2 weeks off)

is there a reason youre doing 2 weeks on 2 weeks off? i started taking astragalus today to help me recover from reactivated mono/epstein-barr, and i had planned on taking it continuously for the next 2 months. i had planned on taking 2 caps 2x per day of natures answer astragalus extract (250mg std astragalus @ 0.3% astragalosides + 250mg astragalus root powder) which totals about 3mg per day astragalosides.

Hi Ajnast4r,

I'm using the approach described by James Green on his website http://greenwoodstor...ERASEACTIVATORS

I'm using omega 3 and resveratrol during the 2 weeks I'm not using astragalus(see list below)

This is what I use during the first two weeks

Astragalus
Aminoguanidine
Deprenyl
Acarbose
Metformin
carnosine
L-arginine
Chlorella
L-Theanine

And this is what I use during the second 2 weeks

Super Omega-3
Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer
500 mg resveratrol
Astragalus
Aminoguanidine
Deprenyl
Acarbose
Metformin
carnosine
L-arginine
Chlorella
L-Theanine

I also exercise 4/5 times a week, my personal record on 1/2 marathon is 1:27 even though I restrict my carbohydrates



Cheers,

Simon

ps. sorry for the poor lay-out, I have it in a spreadsheet but couldn't get it in the post

[krillin]

Again, 33mg is the lowest dosage we suggest, and it should only activate the enzyme for part of the day. Chelators or Resveratrol taken 3 hours or more after Astral Fruit can also contribute and effectively help stop Astral Fruit from working for a long period of time. With this in mind, we don't think a rest is necessary at this dose.

Why do you refer to the telomerase inhibitors as chelators?

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Krillin,

It's something I picked up, as chelators allow for the body to excrete it (astragaloside iv) without any benefits to the body, I believe If you take both resveratrol and astral fruit at the same time, resveratrol could move (but not necessarily bind) most of the astragaloside iv out of your body, or make it ready to be excreted without allowing it to do it's job. Astral Fruit already has a low bioavailability, so anything that may cause this issue, before any telomerase is activated, I would consider a chelator.

A

[Anthony_Loera]

Hmm... chelators also make a substance chemically inert, I think it still fits...

Although I may start changing this to inhibitor/activator as we move to consider some new ideas for grouping daily supplements.
I spent sometime reading over James Green information at his website. I have to say, he has gathered alot of good information regarding this subject.

It has also sparked some interesting conversations with my wife.

A

[cesium]

Agree that James Green's website has lots of interesting info and links, though I wish he wouldn't use such an annoying background for his web page. Too busy and distracting to me.

[stephen_b]

Yes, and separating sentences into paragraphs does wonders for readability.

[scottrobb1982]

***

With regards to "astrag fruit" these guys dfont know the full score yet, as they reccommend to use resveratrol with!!!?? Resveratrol is strong telomerase inhibitor, and stays in the blood for 24 hours! There using "astrag fruit" would be meaningless!

I used astragaloside for the first time about 6 months ago, and noticed looking more young within just 2 weeks, im only 26 and very healthy so this is difficult! Nothing more since, but I still look the same so I reckon at the least I aint aging anymore.

(edited by Matthias: no commercial advertisement, please. Welcome to ImmInst.)

Edited by Matthias, 26 September 2008 - 12:59 PM.

[DJ Stately]

Total non-scientist here, so please forgive my ignorance etc, but I would like to know about the long term effects of taking Astral Fruit/Astragalus etc and what happens when one stops taking it. From what I've observed with other drugs, usually if you take them for long enough and then stop, whatever effect it was giving/mimicing, your body stops producing for a while. eg a withdrawing heroin addict produces a much lower amount of endorphins for some time. Could it be that the body would suddenly start ageing more rapidly after taking it for a long period?
I'm also curious about something I read to do with Calorie Restriction (because it was used as part of the basis to Dr Sinclair's theories on ageing.) He said CR activated 'immortality' genes (or something to that effect.) I thought CR worked because in the absence of nutrients the body scavenged from where it could, thereby cleaning out a lot of toxins/free radicals, rather like de-scaling a kettle periodically. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Edited by DJ Stately, 01 December 2008 - 11:28 PM.

[niner]

Total non-scientist here, so please forgive my ignorance etc, but I would like to know about the long term effects of taking Astral Fruit/Astragalus etc and what happens when one stops taking it. From what I've observed with other drugs, usually if you take them for long enough and then stop, whatever effect it was giving/mimicing, your body stops producing for a while. eg a withdrawing heroin addict produces a much lower amount of endorphins for some time. Could it be that the body would suddenly start ageing more rapidly after taking it for a long period?
I'm also curious about something I read to do with Calorie Restriction (because it was used as part of the basis to Dr Sinclair's theories on ageing.) He said CR activated 'immortality' genes (or something to that effect.) I thought CR worked because in the absence of nutrients the body scavenged from where it could, thereby cleaning out a lot of toxins/free radicals, rather like de-scaling a kettle periodically. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Good questions, DJ. Since Astragalus supposedly revs up telomerase that is otherwise inactive, I'm not sure what the body's mechanism for adapting to this would be. Even if the body had a system to tamp down the overactive telomerase, when you stopped taking the Astragalus, the telomerase would just return to its normal inactive state. This all assumes that Astragalus will do anything, of course.

CR probably does work something like you imagine. It's not getting rid of toxins or free radicals as we normally think of them. It ramps up autophagy, so the cell is consuming old protein and other macromolecules which would subsequently be replaced by new copies. This is very good as it gets rid of glycated, oxidized, or misfolded junk.

[maxwatt]

http://pmid.us/16715776 -- The study apparently reports that 0.1% chitosan
increases absorption of astragalus by over 60 fold.

Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet. 2006 Jan-Mar;31(1):5-10.Links
Absorption enhancement study of astragaloside IV based on its transport mechanism in caco-2 cells.
Huang CR, Wang GJ, Wu XL, Li H, Xie HT, Lv H, Sun JG.

Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetic Research Center, China Pharmaceutical University, Nanjing, People's Republic of China.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the transport characteristics and mechanisms for discovering the possible causes of the low bioavailability of astragaloside IV and to develop an absorption enhancement strategy. Caco-2 cells used as the in vitro model. Results showed a low permeability coefficient (3.7 x 10(-8)cm/s for transport from the AP to BL direction), which remained unchanged throughout the concentration range studied, indicating that the transport of astragaloside IV was predominantly via a passive route. The AP to BL transport of astragaloside IV was found to be highly sensitive to the extracellular Ca2+ concentration, which suggested that its transport may be via a paracellular route. Both chitosan and sodium deoxycholate can increase the permeation efficiency of astragaloside IV. This study indicated that astragaloside IV having a low fraction dose absorbed in humans mainly due to its poor intestinal permeability, high molecular weight, low lipophilicity as well as its paracelluar transport may directly result in the low permeability through its passive transport. Meanwhile, chitosan and sodium deoxycholate can be used as absorption enhancers based on its transport mechanism.

PMID: 16715776

Edited by maxwatt, 05 December 2008 - 02:56 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

Simon007 - Your cycling of supplements is very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to make your posts.

[tintinet]

http://pmid.us/16715776 -- The study apparently reports that 0.1% chitosan
increases absorption of astragalus by over 60 fold.

Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet. 2006 Jan-Mar;31(1):5-10.Links
Absorption enhancement study of astragaloside IV based on its transport mechanism in caco-2 cells.
Huang CR, Wang GJ, Wu XL, Li H, Xie HT, Lv H, Sun JG.

Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetic Research Center, China Pharmaceutical University, Nanjing, People's Republic of China.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the transport characteristics and mechanisms for discovering the possible causes of the low bioavailability of astragaloside IV and to develop an absorption enhancement strategy. Caco-2 cells used as the in vitro model. Results showed a low permeability coefficient (3.7 x 10(-8)cm/s for transport from the AP to BL direction), which remained unchanged throughout the concentration range studied, indicating that the transport of astragaloside IV was predominantly via a passive route. The AP to BL transport of astragaloside IV was found to be highly sensitive to the extracellular Ca2+ concentration, which suggested that its transport may be via a paracellular route. Both chitosan and sodium deoxycholate can increase the permeation efficiency of astragaloside IV. This study indicated that astragaloside IV having a low fraction dose absorbed in humans mainly due to its poor intestinal permeability, high molecular weight, low lipophilicity as well as its paracelluar transport may directly result in the low permeability through its passive transport. Meanwhile, chitosan and sodium deoxycholate can be used as absorption enhancers based on its transport mechanism.

PMID: 16715776

So, if one takes Astralfruit with chitosan, is that too much?

[flakca]

I'm 51 years of age and have a receding hairline and thinning gray/white hair, or did prior to two 90 day sessions of astragalus supplementation.

The 1st time I used an astragalus extract that was 12 times potency. Over time it made me feel a bit funny, slightly sick, like when I take an iron vitamin. Hard to describe, but I would say that my body was telling me that it was saited. Enough already. I waited 90 days and did another session with a normal dosage, but did not complete the full 90 days. I did not log exact durations.

That regimen started in January of 2008, and I stopped by the end of August. The first thing I noticed was the growth of a few dark hairs in my thinning white hair on top. That effect probably started in mid summer of 2008. It is still increasing. As of this writing I now have more dark hairs, than white on top of my head. The effect does not seem to extend as much down into the thicker hair on the sides of my head. Also the new hair shafts are quite thin. Some of the white hairs have dark roots, which will occasionally cause people to comment, if they happen to look at my hair line. It is an odd effect.

My hair line seems to now be extending down instead of receding. My skin also seems to slowly slowly changing and becoming thicker, versus the thinning of age.

I intend to get some of type IV and do another 90 days in the not to distant future.

[Roses]

encouraging anecdote

[2tender]

Thanks for bumping this thread, it has been sometime now and Im wondering if any one else is using this and Resveratrol currently. Anthony, any comments? Can I take this with my Nitro?

[tintinet]

Thanks for bumping this thread, it has been sometime now and Im wondering if any one else is using this and Resveratrol currently. Anthony, any comments? Can I take this with my Nitro?

I take 2 Astral Fruit caps with chitosan in the AM and I take about 3 grams of 99% purity t-resveratrol at other times of the day, separate from the Astral Fruit. Per usual, I've noticed nothing in the way of effects from either. I've been taking Astral Fruit for several months (8?) and t-resveratrol for years.

[edward]

I noticed nothing from high doses of standardized bulk Astragalus powder other than during that time I never got sick, not even a sniffle, then again I was taking other immune boosting supps and in general I rarely get sick... so basically no tangible results other than placebo enhanced perception of a positive effect on the immune system.

Edited by edward, 10 April 2009 - 08:01 PM.