48 replies to this topic

[rwac]

I'll let you know. I also plan to try it with curcumin - assuming that the oil and curcumin will mix well enough for it to work.

I'm thinking of trying the PEG, but I'm not sure how to tell if any vit C is being absorbed at all.
The only reliable method I guess is to start taking it and see if I get a cold or something like that.

[ppp]

I'll let you know. I also plan to try it with curcumin - assuming that the oil and curcumin will mix well enough for it to work.

I'm thinking of trying the PEG, but I'm not sure how to tell if any vit C is being absorbed at all.
The only reliable method I guess is to start taking it and see if I get a cold or something like that.

What about getting bloods done?

[ppp]

I'll let you know. I also plan to try it with curcumin - assuming that the oil and curcumin will mix well enough for it to work.

I'm thinking of trying the PEG, but I'm not sure how to tell if any vit C is being absorbed at all.
The only reliable method I guess is to start taking it and see if I get a cold or something like that.

Well my first attempts were a dismal fail. I can't even get the soya lecithin to completely dissolve. I've got half a tablespoon of lecitin granules and a good cup of warm water but I'm still left with blobs of lecithin rather than a solution. What ratio of water to lecithin are you using?

[rwac]

What about getting bloods done?

Is there even a serum vitamin C blood test available ? Would it detect encapsulated forms ?

Well my first attempts were a dismal fail. I can't even get the soya lecithin to completely dissolve. I've got half a tablespoon of lecitin granules and a good cup of warm water but I'm still left with blobs of lecithin rather than a solution. What ratio of water to lecithin are you using?

It's actually 3 tbsp of granules/cup of water. You use a blender to initially mix it.
Then mix the lecithin solution with the ascorbate solution (1tbsp in 0.5cup of water), blend and then use the ultrasonic cleaner.
That's how I do it anyway.

[ppp]

What about getting bloods done?

Is there even a serum vitamin C blood test available ? Would it detect encapsulated forms ?

Well my first attempts were a dismal fail. I can't even get the soya lecithin to completely dissolve. I've got half a tablespoon of lecitin granules and a good cup of warm water but I'm still left with blobs of lecithin rather than a solution. What ratio of water to lecithin are you using?

It's actually 3 tbsp of granules/cup of water. You use a blender to initially mix it.
Then mix the lecithin solution with the ascorbate solution (1tbsp in 0.5cup of water), blend and then use the ultrasonic cleaner.
That's how I do it anyway.

After you've blended the lecithin/water mixture, is it still 'lumpy' or a milky solution with no bits?

[ppp]

Is there even a serum vitamin C blood test available ? Would it detect encapsulated forms ?

Well Steve Hickey used a plasma ascorbate test in his paper that showed that liposomal C gives much higher bioavailability than other oral forms.

[rwac]

After you've blended the lecithin/water mixture, is it still 'lumpy' or a milky solution with no bits?

It's milky. I also soak the lecithin in the water for a bit before I blend it.

[ppp]

After you've blended the lecithin/water mixture, is it still 'lumpy' or a milky solution with no bits?

It's milky. I also soak the lecithin in the water for a bit before I blend it.

OK, I'll try that.

[chrono]

Love this idea. rwac, what kind of batch sizes do you do, and how long does it keep for?

Circumin, on the other hand, is fat soluble, so you want to dissolve it in monounsaturated fat (olive oil, etc), and this will bypass the stomach acid. It will be emulsified and absorbed along with the fat.

A little off-topic, but I'm very curious about this. Does dissolving a fat-soluble drug in an oil (or maybe milk?) and drinking it result in better absorption than swallowing it separately (say, in a capsule) with a meal?

[rwac]

Love this idea. rwac, what kind of batch sizes do you do, and how long does it keep for?

Circumin, on the other hand, is fat soluble, so you want to dissolve it in monounsaturated fat (olive oil, etc), and this will bypass the stomach acid. It will be emulsified and absorbed along with the fat.

A little off-topic, but I'm very curious about this. Does dissolving a fat-soluble drug in an oil (or maybe milk?) and drinking it result in better absorption than swallowing it separately (say, in a capsule) with a meal?

I use 22g of Na-Ascorbate in ~700ml water. I haven't had a batch go bad in 10-15 days I leave it in the fridge.

Fat soluble substances should definitely be better absorbed in oil or milk than dry.
Many people (including me) have trouble absorbing dry vitamin D for instance.

[bocadillodelomo]

Does anyone know the exact biochemical reason for why lecithin causes the encapsulation of water soluble molecules, such as vitamin C or glutathione? Is it because when you "mix" or ultrasonic it, it causes the water soluble molecules to pass through the phospholipid membrane?

I'm wondering what else can be used to make liposomal vitamin C as an alternative to lecithin because many people are allergic to soy.

And does it have to be in granule form or can it be those gel caps that you just bust open and mix with water? From what i read/saw, the lecithin first must be mixed with water by blending before it's mixed with the vitamin C solution.

[chrono]

And does it have to be in granule form or can it be those gel caps that you just bust open and mix with water? From what i read/saw, the lecithin first must be mixed with water by blending before it's mixed with the vitamin C solution.

Most commercial gel caps have some kind of filler(s) along with the active ingredients. Plus it's a lot more expensive per unit to buy it this way. Not recommended.

[rwac]

Stabilizing Liposomes.

If you're making Liposomal vitamin C, you might have noticed that after a day or two some of the lecithin collects at the bottom.
I've been having this problem for a while too.

So one day I read a post that suggests that sucrose/trehalose stabilizes liposomes.
Well, sugar is a cryoprotectant, that's used to protect liposomes against freezing and drying.

http://books.google....posomes&f=false

http://www.google.co...sugar liposomes

I just put a couple of tsp of sugar into the lecithin before mixing and it seems to make the solution nicer to handle and the containers easier to clean, less of a remnant of lecithin at the bottom. So far so good. I just prepared the liposomal vitamin C last night, Lets see how long it lasts. Next time I will try trehalose instead, it's supposed to work better at a lower concentration.

[zorba990]

Interesting. I've been using Ribose but for other reasons.

[EMP]

I've just learnt about liposomal vitamin C and would be interested to give it a try myself. I'm just curious if there's anyone who has tried retail liposomal vitamin C versus home-made... Is there any research on the absorption rate of home-made liposomal vitamin C and could it be mixed with resveratrol?

[zorba990]

Thought I would add an update here. Recently I switched to a slightly different method. Instead of trying to dissolve the TRes in water using the lecithin and ultrasonic cleaner, I first dissolve the TRes in warm coconut oil. Then I add the lecithin, then stir until the mixture is even (no lumps). Then I start adding water and keep stirring. Once enough water has been added I then start the sonificication. Subjectively, I seem to feel a stronger impact from the same dose (1TSP 99% TRes or approx 1 gram). But I am also swishing the mixture in my mouth quite a bit to test for bitterness (there is none) and lumps (sometimes - probably from the undissolved lecithin). So there may be some effect from buccal absorption that I wasn't getting before. Digestively this seems to be even smoother than with just the water, so I may even drop the butyrate (which I take separately to mitigate loose stool from the high dose TRes), and see how that goes.

The only part that is cumbersome is melting the coconut oil. I don't want to overheat anything and damage the oil or the TRes. I will probably try something like sesame oil at the week-end. I'd also eventually like to switch to sunflower lecithin since it looks to be more solvent free.

[zorba990]

Thought I would add an update here. Recently I switched to a slightly different method. Instead of trying to dissolve the TRes in water using the lecithin and ultrasonic cleaner, I first dissolve the TRes in warm coconut oil. Then I add the lecithin, then stir until the mixture is even (no lumps). Then I start adding water and keep stirring. Once enough water has been added I then start the sonificication. Subjectively, I seem to feel a stronger impact from the same dose (1TSP 99% TRes or approx 1 gram). But I am also swishing the mixture in my mouth quite a bit to test for bitterness (there is none) and lumps (sometimes - probably from the undissolved lecithin). So there may be some effect from buccal absorption that I wasn't getting before. Digestively this seems to be even smoother than with just the water, so I may even drop the butyrate (which I take separately to mitigate loose stool from the high dose TRes), and see how that goes.

The only part that is cumbersome is melting the coconut oil. I don't want to overheat anything and damage the oil or the TRes. I will probably try something like sesame oil at the week-end. I'd also eventually like to switch to sunflower lecithin since it looks to be more solvent free.

Another quick update. Tried the above with Udo's DHA oil blend using 1T Udo's, iT lecithin, 1 t TRes and 2 T water. Seemed to work well. I'm a little concerned about potential oxidation of the Udo's during the process since I'm not sure how the sonification affects some of the more sensitive oils in the blend. I'm not a big fan of flax so I probably won't continue to use it -- but it was available so I thought I would try it.

[YOLF]

So can someone make a table of what lipids can be used to encapsulate what kinds of things?

[Phoenicis]

This technique actually seems to be legit:

 

Huang et al., Ultrasound-enhanced Microfluidic Synthesis of Liposomes, ANTICANCERRESEARCH30: 463-466 (2010).

 

It could likely be used for glutathione and can also be used to create liposomes and phytosomes containing a variety of polar phytochemicals.

Edited by Phoenicis, 14 August 2014 - 04:55 AM.