Manager of the Creekside Preserve Lodge and Advisor and Secretary for The Society for Venturism, ImmInst member John Grigg helpfully answers questions about his life, cryonics and physical immortality.
John Grigg
IMMINST: What inspired your interest in life extension and physical immortality?
JOHN GRIGG: An early seed was planted when I was around eight and reading my illustrated children's bible in my favorite spot underneath the dining room table. I was in the Old Testament and became fascinated by the story of how people before the flood lived for centuries. I went over to my mother and asked her if she wished she could have lived for such a long span of time and she readily replied yes.
Later I would rush home from school with my bestfriend to view the classic Star Trek series. As I was entertained by the courage of Kirk and the logic of Spock while they explored the galaxy I would sometimes think to myself "why did I have to be born too early to travel the universe in a starship?"
Then as I grew older I saw the vast inequalities of health, intelligence, looks and other key qualities among the people around me and I just could not ever get over this. I am still deeply frustrated when I see people who are homely looking, mentally dull or chronically sick. I want to see them raised up almost as much as I do the physically deformed, the mentally retarded and the seriously ill. I know we cannot all be equal in every way (this would not be good to say the least) but I do want a much more level playing field and say this unapologetically.
But we live in a world where such very basic things as adequate food, education, shelter and medicine are not available for so many, so I realize the fairer world I desire will be awhile in coming.
What got me actually thinking about cryonics was when Charles Platt presided over the cryonics contest in Omni magazine, which was the Wired magazine of its time. Later I actually called up Cryocare and spoke to Charles for about a half-hour long distance and he thoughtfully listened to my thoughts and concerns.
IMMINST: Why did you decided to move to AZ and Creekside?
JG: I had wanted to move out of my home state of Alaska to explore the "big wide world." I love Alaska very much for its natural beauty and people but I felt isolated.
When I received the opportunity to become the general manager of the Creekside Preserve Lodge I jumped on it because it would be an adventure in a new place which would be combined with my interest in cryonics. And it has since proven to be the right decision! Seeing the lodge business develop has been very exciting and the best is yet to come with Ventureville, our future cryonics community which will get under way in roughly three to five years. We will take "small steps" to get there but we will do it.
IMMINST: What suggestion would you give someone interested in helping the immortalist movement?
JG: Run away while you still can!! ; ) Seriously, I think it just depends on what that particular person's talents and abilities are. Each of us in our own small or large way can reach out to others who may appear potentially receptive and share with them our beliefs.
My personal suggestion would be to keep your sense of humor as you try to further things along. Because if you don't keep your perspective and sense of humor you will probably burn out! This happens quite a bit to people who in the beginning were "on fire" with enthusiasm for the cause.
IMMINST: What's the greatest problem and hurdle for the immortalist movement at this time?
JG: I see the lack of major grassroots activism/agitation as compared to other movements (like the environmentalists) as a definite problem. The Immortality Institute and the Society for Venturism are both trying to solve this problem.
IMMINST: Has the current controversies with organizations such as Alcor and CI, helped or hurt in terms of membership gain. Will we see more intrusion by governments and could a state or even the federal government shut down cryonics altogether?
JG: I think the current controversies have boosted our membership numbers. I sense immortalists having a "circle the wagons" attitude about things now with the government agencies meddling in our affairs.
State and Federal governments I don't think will actually shut down cryonics organizations but they probably will start closely regulating them and this will not be ending any time soon. And this could actually be a dark cloud with a silver lining because by the very act of regulating us they will be saying we have the right to exist and carry out our function. At times in the past government agencies have said cryonics companies did not have such basic rights.
IMMINST: What are your predictions and thoughts on the prospect for a the creation of smarter than human intelligence, a point in time Vernor Vinge termed as the Singularity?
JG: Based on what I have read we will see a singularity (A.I. with totally off the charts intellectual power which will utterly transform the planet) take place by 2035 if Moore's Law holds up. And I think with alternative technologies in the pipeline that it will.
Despite having just watched Terminator 3 & Matrix: Revolutions I still think the singularity is something to look forward to! lol I do worry that a "computing power arms race" could be generated between the west and east resulting in a very ugly and out of control singularity if we are not careful.
I hope Eliezer Yudkowsky's "friendly A.I." theory or those similar to it will be taken into account as humanity actually approaches creating self-upgrading A.I. which will in time may outstrip our best minds ten-thousandfold. I am certainly not an expert in this complex subject matter but I feel the first aliens humanity may publicly encounter will be our very own "mind children."
IMMINST How is your current work progressing to create The Society For Venturism's Physical Immortality magazine?
JG: Issue number two of Physical Immortality just came out! We are very proud of it and already working on issue number three. Each issue is accessible to a unfamiliar reader and yet has something to offer the more jaded transhumanist. To get a free sample copy email me at starman2050@lycos.com but I ask that anyone who does this please seriously consider signing up for a subscription.
My article for it reviews "Zardoz," the classic John Boorman film which stars Sean Connery. The plot has everything but the kitchen sink thrown in and I consider it one of the greatest science fiction "sleeper" films around because it has quite a following. But it does feature very strong deathist themes which are disturbing and I explore that in my review.
The latest issue has as cover art an oil painting done by my mother when I was only two years-old. It shows a young mother and her boy holding hands while walking a narrow dirt path which cuts through a war ravaged forest. You can see the heavenly mansion at the top of the painting which is their final destination.
Though it is a religiously themed painting it can be seen through an immortalist lens, too. And since I am both a cryonicist and a Christian I really enjoyed seeing it on the cover of Physical Immortality. : )
We want to not only "preach to the immortalist choir" but to a worldwide audience and that is the big goal. I am proud of our title which does not mince words about what the purpose of the magazine is!
IMMINST: Any word on www.timeship.com and their latest?
JG: Supposedly the Timeship project is still in the works but I really don't know about any new developments. I did hear the original pricetag to build which was originally $200,000,000 has ballooned to a very scary $2,000,000,000 which would seem nearly impossible to raise. Perhaps this story is not true but we will see. If Bill Gates is reading this I hope he will consider getting out his checkbook. lol
I love the idea of the Timeship in terms of a magnificent Jerusalem temple-like cryonics building for the world to see but I am just afraid it will become too juicy of a target for domestic/foreign terrorists to resist. Despite all the security precautions planned there will be no way (in the real world) to make it fully safe. I sure would not want my body put in long-term storage there.
IMMINST: Do you think Suspended Animation will be successful in getting a licenses to operate in Florida?
JG: Initially I thought they would have no problem but I am now having my doubts. I would have to know about the personalities on the city council there to really give a decent guess. If they have to SA can relocate to another area but that would be rough.
What really worries me is that the subject of Suspended Animation animal research will register on the "radar screens" of radical animal rights groups. This could result in a criminal break-in where the SA labs are destroyed. And it could even result in all cryonics facilities being targeted and the bodies in long-term storage being destroyed. These are I admit very scary thoughts but they need to be considered.
IMMINST: Do you ever look in the mirror and think, damn, I'm just a primate.. I need an upload!
JG: No. I don't like the idea of uploading because I see it as a perfect copy and not truly ME. Of course this is an ancient argument as anyone would know who has looked at the extropian archives. LOL
What I think when I look in the mirror is..., I am seeing the first signs of aging in my face and I am not anywhere as intelligent, athletic, good-looking and healthy as I would like to be! I want to have a full nanomed overhaul to make my body the way I have always dreamed of it being.
I love the Primo body which Natasha Vita-More has envisioned lovingly on her website. Natasha's concept of a nano-enhanced body is well beyond mine but I envision nanomed upgrade 1.0 while she is more along the lines of 3.0!
IMMINST: Would you agree with general assumption that nothing happens after death, therefore one must preserve consciousness from the oblivion of death and discontinuity?
JG: I personally believe there is the continuity of the mind/personality after biological death in the form of an afterlife. But I deeply value the life I now have and feel it is a gift from God and that I should treasure it by trying to improve and greatly extend it.
In time God can "claim" me when he wants to. Even with a body, which grants me indefinite lifespan, immunity to disease and incredible healing powers I will not be immune from the "slings and arrows of fate." My spacecraft going into a blackhole or a hostile combatant shooting me with his plasma rifle would end things for me pretty quickly.
Besides my own interest in my biological survival I have two other reasons why I support cryonics so much and these need to be explained.
First, I am honestly worried about the standing many transhumanists/cryonicists would have should they die and face God. I realize this may sound amusing to some but it is how I strongly feel. With cryonics I see these people as having extra time to learn about the true nature of the universe and make peace with the divine. I realize this is not one of the usual arguments for cryonics you hear from people who are signed up.
And coming back they may have some incredible near death experiences to tell the rest of us! Of course my good friend Mike Perry (computer Phd who works at Alcor) would have his own take on this...
Secondly, I believe a man or women's last wishes on how their remains should be treated is a sacred thing. It enrages me when I hear stories of vulture-like relatives, friends and lawyers ripping apart trusts and wills so they can get their greedy paws on money which should have paid for a loved one's cryonic suspension. At Ventureville we intend to be a fortress to protect cryonicists from such piracy.
I hope to spend the rest of my life working to promote immortalism and cryonics in my own small way and look forward to seeing Ventureville germinate and finally blossom into a thriving cryonics community. This will not happen overnight but it will happen.
Thank you
(John in Alaska)
John Grigg
Creekside Preserve Lodge General Manager
The Society for Venturism Advisor and Secretary
Alcor Member
Weird Al Yankovic Fan Club member
www.creeksidepreserve.com
www.venturist.org
www.alcor.org
www.weirdal.com
