93 replies to this topic

[steelsky]

Really tried to include them all. Have a go.

[rwac]

What about dopamine precursors ?

DLPA, Tyrosine

I suppose that falls under neurotransmitter precursors.

Edited by rwac, 05 January 2009 - 07:31 AM.

[ajnast4r]

deep sleep

[rwac]

deep sleep

I'll second that.

Although, It's semi-mythical at this point.

[Pike]

This is a surpisingly inclusive list for your poll. Well done, I'd say, good sir. Quite worthy of a golf-clap!


I want to mark down Sulbutiamine right now, however, I've heard nothing but terrific things about Huperzine A and will hold off on voting for now until it I try it.

EDIT: I just noticed a major component to your list here that's missing: the cerebral blood-flow enhancers! (i.e. Vinpocetine, Idebenone, Inositol, Pyritinol, etc.) I remembered them as I wondered why my order of Idebenone hasn't come in the mail.

Edited by Pike, 05 January 2009 - 04:24 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

You chose some really strange things to group together: desmopressin, amantadine, neurontin? They have nothing in common, at all. Nonetheless, good effort putting the poll together. I voted for tea, ALCAR, EFA's, and piracetam.

[steelsky]

You chose some really strange things to group together: desmopressin, amantadine, neurontin? They have nothing in common, at all. Nonetheless, good effort putting the poll together. I voted for tea, ALCAR, EFA's, and piracetam.

Correct, but since I didn't know much about those, and also didn't find many posts about them (suggesting they're not very popular), I've decided to group them together nonetheless.

And since a poll can only have 15 options, it was extremely hard to fit enough options for getting a good statistic "read-out". I'm sure others might have arranged the items differently, but hey - it's my poll

Anyway, I've marked Modafinil as it is the only one with which I could actually notice (albeit very slight) some cognitive improvements. These are circumstantial, but my intuition says they are real, and not imagined. Still, not a large nootropic boost, to say the least. I'm planning on starting Aniracetam in a few days. Also wanting to try out Deprenyl.
I should mention that Methylphenidate is a terrific productivity agent for me, but I wouldn't say it actually makes me smarter. Just more concentrated in each task. On second thought, maybe I should have marked it, as concentration IS a cognitive factor. Oh well, on the next poll I guess.

Pike - many of the listed items also effect blood-flow in the brain, and oxygen levels. Just mark the best fit, I guess. No other choice, really (and literally).
BTW, I've tried Huperzine A and didn't notice much. However, I tried just a 50mcg semi daily dose, and didn't actively try to notice any effects.

rwac - yeah, well, sadly I couldn't put EVERYTHING in. But I'm sure most members can find a good representation of theirs (for example, you mentioned tyrosine, which is also an amino acid as you pointed out).

Edited by steelsky, 05 January 2009 - 10:36 PM.

[Pike]

hey steelsky

I wanted to comment about your L-Huperzine A thing:

I have since tried L-Huperzine A, and WOW it worked. This is what I did:
Since I know that people remember the most right before they sleep and after they wake up...

- I took 100mcg L-Huperzine A before reading a book for a couple hours before going to sleep. (incidentally, I also had a lucid dream that night)
- Woke up today morning (after a nice full night's rest =D) around 6am and took another one along with my daily stack w/breakfast, then read my book again for about an hour Stopped after that. (which was about 7:45ish)
- Doing my best to space them out about 5 hours apart, doing good with that.


I will say that this one is AMAZING. WOW. It's about 1pm right now, and I still remember close to EVERYTHING that happened during the book I was reading last night and this morning. With a strange sort of "photographic imaginary memory." It's weird. The best way to describe it is that I can vividly remember the scenes and images that I was creating while I read the book! It's kind creepy, actually... but in a cool sort of way.

My theory is, which has thus far been pretty bang-on, that the key to an enjoyable and effective Nootropic experience is to responsibly make sure you have a consistent schedule of multiple administrations. I do my best to make sure I administer everything at least 4 times a day, even if that means I take a miniscule dose each time.

Hope that helps for the next time you want to try L-Hup!

-Pike

[pycnogenol]

None of the above. I much prefer the hallucinogenic version of Hydergine than anything else.

http://en.wikipedia..../Albert_Hofmann

http://en.wikipedia....id_diethylamide

Thank you, Albert Hofmann




(for all you young whippersnappers reading this, no, I'm am not kidding)

Edited by pycnogenol, 07 January 2009 - 12:14 AM.

[steelsky]

hey steelsky

I wanted to comment about your L-Huperzine A thing:

I have since tried L-Huperzine A, and WOW it worked. This is what I did:
Since I know that people remember the most right before they sleep and after they wake up...

- I took 100mcg L-Huperzine A before reading a book for a couple hours before going to sleep. (incidentally, I also had a lucid dream that night)
- Woke up today morning (after a nice full night's rest =D) around 6am and took another one along with my daily stack w/breakfast, then read my book again for about an hour Stopped after that. (which was about 7:45ish)
- Doing my best to space them out about 5 hours apart, doing good with that.


I will say that this one is AMAZING. WOW. It's about 1pm right now, and I still remember close to EVERYTHING that happened during the book I was reading last night and this morning. With a strange sort of "photographic imaginary memory." It's weird. The best way to describe it is that I can vividly remember the scenes and images that I was creating while I read the book! It's kind creepy, actually... but in a cool sort of way.

My theory is, which has thus far been pretty bang-on, that the key to an enjoyable and effective Nootropic experience is to responsibly make sure you have a consistent schedule of multiple administrations. I do my best to make sure I administer everything at least 4 times a day, even if that means I take a miniscule dose each time.

Hope that helps for the next time you want to try L-Hup!

-Pike

Interesting.
I never tried more than 50mcg daily... and it was Huperzine A without the "L-", which I reckon is meant to increase its bio-availability, meaning I got even less than 50mcg.
I still got some stuff to try out (Aniracetam and deprenyl), but I'll keep an eye for l-huperzine. If enough positive posts appear - I might try it. Still, the WOW effect you describe might be personal. From reading many threads (and from common sense), different drugs have different effects with different people, and it'd be wise to assume that it is because of the "interaction" between their specific physiologies - meaning that one might benefit from elevated dopamine levels because he's "low" on it at default, while another would benefit from acetylcholine because his brain might be less susceptible to it. Accordingly, for you, acetylcholine might be the right stuff, while for me, for example, Norepinephrine might be.
See "Your favorite noot?" thread

I agree about multiple administrations. But I trust users reach these naturally when they notice something to work.

[steelsky]

BTW, I thought deprenyl would get a much higher rating, as it is so talked about in this forum.

...might be because people taking deprenyl are too busy exploiting it than answering this poll

[Pike]

hey steelsky

I wanted to comment about your L-Huperzine A thing:

I have since tried L-Huperzine A, and WOW it worked. This is what I did:
Since I know that people remember the most right before they sleep and after they wake up...

- I took 100mcg L-Huperzine A before reading a book for a couple hours before going to sleep. (incidentally, I also had a lucid dream that night)
- Woke up today morning (after a nice full night's rest =D) around 6am and took another one along with my daily stack w/breakfast, then read my book again for about an hour Stopped after that. (which was about 7:45ish)
- Doing my best to space them out about 5 hours apart, doing good with that.


I will say that this one is AMAZING. WOW. It's about 1pm right now, and I still remember close to EVERYTHING that happened during the book I was reading last night and this morning. With a strange sort of "photographic imaginary memory." It's weird. The best way to describe it is that I can vividly remember the scenes and images that I was creating while I read the book! It's kind creepy, actually... but in a cool sort of way.

My theory is, which has thus far been pretty bang-on, that the key to an enjoyable and effective Nootropic experience is to responsibly make sure you have a consistent schedule of multiple administrations. I do my best to make sure I administer everything at least 4 times a day, even if that means I take a miniscule dose each time.

Hope that helps for the next time you want to try L-Hup!

-Pike

Interesting.
I never tried more than 50mcg daily... and it was Huperzine A without the "L-", which I reckon is meant to increase its bio-availability, meaning I got even less than 50mcg.
I still got some stuff to try out (Aniracetam and deprenyl), but I'll keep an eye for l-huperzine. If enough positive posts appear - I might try it. Still, the WOW effect you describe might be personal. From reading many threads (and from common sense), different drugs have different effects with different people, and it'd be wise to assume that it is because of the "interaction" between their specific physiologies - meaning that one might benefit from elevated dopamine levels because he's "low" on it at default, while another would benefit from acetylcholine because his brain might be less susceptible to it. Accordingly, for you, acetylcholine might be the right stuff, while for me, for example, Norepinephrine might be.
See "Your favorite noot?" thread

I agree about multiple administrations. But I trust users reach these naturally when they notice something to work.

Off the top of my head, I believe Huperzine A is just a synonym for L-Huperzine A, (just like people often refer to it as Hup). From the comparative shopping I did, Cognitive-Nutrition seems to have the best deal on L-Huperzine A... that is, until I can find a supplier of them in bulk.

I do agree with you on the note that different substances affect everyone in different ways. I'm just lucky in that I've responded remarkably well to all of the Noots I've taken so far. The huperzine might have had that "synergistic" effect on me, seeing as I had already taken a miniature stack of nootropics that day already.

Edited by Pike, 07 January 2009 - 02:26 AM.

[pycnogenol]

I take Huperzine-A ("HupA") infrequently and I gotta say from personal experience it definitely has a Pamelor* quality to it and with fewer side effects.


(*generic name: nortriptyline)

- pycnogenol

Edited by pycnogenol, 07 January 2009 - 04:08 PM.

[steelsky]

Off the top of my head, I believe Huperzine A is just a synonym for L-Huperzine A, (just like people often refer to it as Hup). From the comparative shopping I did, Cognitive-Nutrition seems to have the best deal on L-Huperzine A... that is, until I can find a supplier of them in bulk.

I do agree with you on the note that different substances affect everyone in different ways. I'm just lucky in that I've responded remarkably well to all of the Noots I've taken so far. The huperzine might have had that "synergistic" effect on me, seeing as I had already taken a miniature stack of nootropics that day already.

Could be. I've checked the bottle and it never mentions the "L-" part. So I'm not entirely sure. Anyone can verify the claim here?

[steelsky]

Surprisingly - Deprenyl and Modafinil got a pretty low score, but I guess it is reasonable considering that they are drugs, while the items that got the highest scores - herbs, coffee and tea and such - are just supplements, so are more "natural".
Are Racetams considered drugs or supplements?

[Ghostrider]

Surprisingly - Deprenyl and Modafinil got a pretty low score, but I guess it is reasonable considering that they are drugs, while the items that got the highest scores - herbs, coffee and tea and such - are just supplements, so are more "natural".
Are Racetams considered drugs or supplements?

Probably because Modafinil is schedule IV and hard to acquire (expensive). I would say that it is most effective (interpret as helpful, but not amazing -- caffeine like) nootropic that I have tried, although I consider it more of a stimulant than a nootropic. As I mentioned in my other post, Deprenyl is a bit dangerous to use because it can build up in your system.

[steelsky]

Surprisingly - Deprenyl and Modafinil got a pretty low score, but I guess it is reasonable considering that they are drugs, while the items that got the highest scores - herbs, coffee and tea and such - are just supplements, so are more "natural".
Are Racetams considered drugs or supplements?

Probably because Modafinil is schedule IV and hard to acquire (expensive). I would say that it is most effective (interpret as helpful, but not amazing -- caffeine like) nootropic that I have tried, although I consider it more of a stimulant than a nootropic. As I mentioned in my other post, Deprenyl is a bit dangerous to use because it can build up in your system.

Huh? Deprenyl being dangerous? I thought it was actually anti-agin.

[Pike]

Steelsky: I remember reading SEVERAL posts that have a laundry list of precautions to be aware of when taking Deprenyl. Majority of those posts also reccomend not taking them until you're way past 18yo (though, that may not necessarily apply to you).

Also, as someone with ADHD, I have (recreationally) tried Modafinil. The thing I enjoy about it most is that, though it may be a CNS stim, it's not a PNS stim, so it's generally just a good concentration supporter. Unfortuantely, Modafinil is extremely expensive, and the treatments for which it has been diagnosed for are also very specific. The good thing about Modafinil is that it comes in cheaply made precursors! Thus, Adrafinil to the rescue! Most people are turned off by Adrafinil, because they believe that all of it's "Modafinil" properties are gone in an hour, but this is terribly wrong. The 'half-life' of Adrafinil is simply the time that it's being metabolized into Modafinil! Careful, though, with both. They can be quite taxing on the liver.

Also, steelsky: I am pretty sure LifeMirage on BrainMeta was able to verify that claim, however, seeing as that is just anecdotal back-up from an internet source, I wouldn't be too sure.

NOW..... back on topic.

I've yet to update my Log (which there will be a GIANT one coming up), however, upon recent experimentation, I will say that WITHOUT A DOUBT, my favorite noot is a tie between IDEBENONE and VINPOCETINE. Seriously, Idebenone is such an underrated noot. It's effects are close to instantly noticeable, and since it's half-life in HUMANS is so amazingly long (18 hours), a responsible regimen of constant administrations only builds up the effects. So, since I'm torn between 2 noots now, I will wait until I can say which I find better.

[steelsky]

Steelsky: I remember reading SEVERAL posts that have a laundry list of precautions to be aware of when taking Deprenyl. Majority of those posts also reccomend not taking them until you're way past 18yo (though, that may not necessarily apply to you).

Also, as someone with ADHD, I have (recreationally) tried Modafinil. The thing I enjoy about it most is that, though it may be a CNS stim, it's not a PNS stim, so it's generally just a good concentration supporter. Unfortuantely, Modafinil is extremely expensive, and the treatments for which it has been diagnosed for are also very specific. The good thing about Modafinil is that it comes in cheaply made precursors! Thus, Adrafinil to the rescue! Most people are turned off by Adrafinil, because they believe that all of it's "Modafinil" properties are gone in an hour, but this is terribly wrong. The 'half-life' of Adrafinil is simply the time that it's being metabolized into Modafinil! Careful, though, with both. They can be quite taxing on the liver.

Also, steelsky: I am pretty sure LifeMirage on BrainMeta was able to verify that claim, however, seeing as that is just anecdotal back-up from an internet source, I wouldn't be too sure.

NOW..... back on topic.

I've yet to update my Log (which there will be a GIANT one coming up), however, upon recent experimentation, I will say that WITHOUT A DOUBT, my favorite noot is a tie between IDEBENONE and VINPOCETINE. Seriously, Idebenone is such an underrated noot. It's effects are close to instantly noticeable, and since it's half-life in HUMANS is so amazingly long (18 hours), a responsible regimen of constant administrations only builds up the effects. So, since I'm torn between 2 noots now, I will wait until I can say which I find better.

Nice comment. Modafinil IS extremely expensive, especially for those of us who require more than 200mg a day. If I was able to afford 2X200mg daily dose - that's be perfect. It's got all the advantages of Ritalin with less drawbacks (for stimulating), and then some more benefits on top of that (the nootropic effect). I like it very much, but I would like to try Deprenyl as it also receives good reviews. I figured that if I'm doing a low dose it'll be OK (and even beneficial for anti-aging), but now I'm not so sure. Do you think it's worth a try?
As for Adrafinil - indeed, much less expensive than its younger brother, but I've seen so many cautions for liver health that I'm still hesitant. Still, I might try combining it with Modafinil, if I find a good supplier. Speaking of which - any recommendations for a supplier of IDEBENONE and VINPOCETINE (I'll look into those and see if I care to try). Also, if Modafinil weren't so expensive - would it also tie with those two? Or do you think they are preferable anyway?

I'm 28 year old, btw.

It should be mentioned that while I didn't expect Modafinil to do anything for my mood, it really is a good agent. The combination of the boost in motivation and some dullness in "feeling" (for me, at least) makes me concentrate and enjoy it while being able to block out depressing events (which occur quite often for me).

Also - today was my first day with Aniracetam. I THINK it worked well, but too soon to tell.

Edited by steelsky, 11 January 2009 - 08:21 PM.

[steelsky]

Hey, notice how Modafinil started to catch up to Racetams and your run-of-the-mill Coffee and Tea.

[desperate788]

pricetam is my no1, all kinds of fruits work for me in the long run.

[steelsky]

pricetam is my no1, all kinds of fruits work for me in the long run.

Fruits
Now that's an original noot.

[desperate788]

yes it is.

[Evolutionary]

yes it is.

Coffee, although I hve a huge tolerance to it. I like uppers.

[vovin]

Polls like this IMHO can be misleading as opinion usually revolves around what somone has tried and has access to. It misleads people into thinking certain noots are more effective even tho modafinil is a very powerful noot many dont have access to it and wont order it online. thus it wont be found to be the favorite noot for many just die to the fact they havent tried it whereas caffine is freely available to everyone and thus would have it's results coloured as a result.

It's nice to see views and opinions on these subjects but you should not decide the effectiveness of a noot based on opinions such as this. I think it's been well established that certain noots have no effect on some people and vast effects on others. The only real way to find out is to try it and see how you are effected by it.

[steelsky]

Polls like this IMHO can be misleading as opinion usually revolves around what somone has tried and has access to. It misleads people into thinking certain noots are more effective even tho modafinil is a very powerful noot many dont have access to it and wont order it online. thus it wont be found to be the favorite noot for many just die to the fact they havent tried it whereas caffine is freely available to everyone and thus would have it's results coloured as a result.

It's nice to see views and opinions on these subjects but you should not decide the effectiveness of a noot based on opinions such as this. I think it's been well established that certain noots have no effect on some people and vast effects on others. The only real way to find out is to try it and see how you are effected by it.

Wouldn't say "misleading", but I've found (especially as the starter of the poll) that they aren't much informative either. They give a sort of general notion as to the general direction people are leaning to. For example, the peak of herb is interesting as it well above the others. Adding the popularity of EFA, amino acids, coffee and such - this means that the substantial majority of "nootropicats" prefer natural sources than experimenting with drugs.
Had a hard time finding any other conclusion, really.

[ksbalaji]

deep sleep

Yes! - works definitely and reliably for me at 51 years!

[steelsky]

deep sleep

Yes! - works definitely and reliably for me at 51 years!

I concur. Even while being an avid user of pharma solutions (lately for enhancement but always for curing some issues as depression), a good night's sleep when needed makes a world of difference.
Therein lies the catch - I'm searching for drugs to help my fight my excessive sleepiness (Modafinil and Ritalin are my current regimen), but all the while I never think as well as after a good 10 hours sleep. Problem is, it consumes a lot of time (10 hours), whereas I really wish to have 4 extra daily hours (of being awake) by reducing that to 6 (hours of sleep).

[yoyo]

I take Huperzine-A ("HupA") infrequently and I gotta say from personal experience it definitely has a Pamelor* quality to it and with fewer side effects.


(*generic name: nortriptyline)

- pycnogenol

huh. nort has some anticholinergic properties, so not expected.could you be more-specific?

[brokenportal]

Does anybody have any positive or negative experience with DMAE?

I voted external influences but I am still on the look out for good nootropic pills. The next things Im going to be ordering to try out are piracetam and modanafil.

I find that things like exercise, intense songs with meaning or feel to them thats in line with the cause, good intense meaningful thought provoking movies etc.. are what work the best for me. You are what you think, so if you are trying to think intensely and deeply and urgently and all that more then you are those things more.