23 replies to this topic

[Phreak]

So how do people find this works in terms of motivation?

I've heard stories about it actually making people want to do work/study things they didn't want to before they took it. Is this true?

Also, it seems that the main function of this Nootropic/drug is for memory, but how does it go for concentration and attentiveness?

I'm going to do a broad search on these boards to find information - because I know it's there, I remember reading up on it a while ago - but any other new information, especially things like personal experiences etc... would be really great.

For the record: I take a stack of Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Centrophenoxine, Picamilon, Pyritinol, L-Huperzine A and Acetyl-L-Carnitine, which I cycle. I also occasionally use 100mg Modafinil when working and have previously used Desmopressin before tests (with little to no effects). This has worked wonders for general cognitive enhancement, but I still find it really hard to get the ball rolling; to sit down and actually start work. It takes me a good half hour of messing about, daydreaming, trying in vain to work before I actually start to get anything done, and I would be great if Deprenyl could help with that initial "kick"

Thanks in advance

[Pike]

I've never actually even heard of Selegiline before. However, the nootropic's that I've read which greatly help with motivation are:

Deprenyl
Adrafinil (essentially, Modafinil)
Galantamine

The only problem with them is that: 1) I've never once seen a reccomendation for Deprenyl without a laundry list of precautions, 2) There doesn't seem to be a very competitive market for Adrafinil, 3) Galantamine will make your wallet cry.

Still, if money isn't a terrible issue, then Adrafinil & Galantamine would be something to look into.

Again, I haven't personally tried any of these yet, and am quite a "rookie" when it comes to nootropics. So, don't take my word for it.

EDIT: Oh! But I have noticed that some of the noots that work as mood elevators DO have an effect on my motivation. Sometimes, just being in a good mood is enough to get that push in the right direction. The one's I've found to work (to some slight extent) are: L-Tyrosine, DL-Phenylalanine and Centrophenoxine. Hope that helps!

Edited by Pike, 05 January 2009 - 04:39 PM.

[stephen_b]

I've never actually even heard of Selegiline before. However, the nootropic's that I've read which greatly help with motivation are:

Deprenyl

Selegiline and deprenyl are the same thing.

StephenB

[steelsky]

So how do people find this works in terms of motivation?

I've heard stories about it actually making people want to do work/study things they didn't want to before they took it. Is this true?

Also, it seems that the main function of this Nootropic/drug is for memory, but how does it go for concentration and attentiveness?

I'm going to do a broad search on these boards to find information - because I know it's there, I remember reading up on it a while ago - but any other new information, especially things like personal experiences etc... would be really great.

For the record: I take a stack of Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Centrophenoxine, Picamilon, Pyritinol, L-Huperzine A and Acetyl-L-Carnitine, which I cycle. I also occasionally use 100mg Modafinil when working and have previously used Desmopressin before tests (with little to no effects). This has worked wonders for general cognitive enhancement, but I still find it really hard to get the ball rolling; to sit down and actually start work. It takes me a good half hour of messing about, daydreaming, trying in vain to work before I actually start to get anything done, and I would be great if Deprenyl could help with that initial "kick"

Thanks in advance

Best "initial kick" agent I've found is methylphenidate. It works both on motivation and energy-boost at the right dose.
I suffer from excessive sleepiness, which is why I gave it a try. Now I usually set an alarm clock before bed, wake up from it, take my dose of Ritalin LA (40mg) and go back to sleep. 45 minutes afterward - I wake up like a rocket, feeling like I'd rather be doing work than anything else. However, it works best if my work is something I like, of course. Having to do something you don't - there's still an inclination to avoid it... but Ritalin still forces me to sit and do it.

[stephen_b]

I have noticed an increase in motivation after a week on selegiline (1 mg/day). I took some l-phenylalanine this morning, and its effects seem to be enhanced by the selegiline compared to my experiences with it before taking selegiline.

What am I doing posting here? Off to balance my checkbook...

StephenB

[flatline]

I think it helps. Give it a try for a few weeks and see how it helps.

I recommend the liquid deprenyl since you can use a measured dose as low as 1mg, because it is 1mg per drop. I found it cheapest to get direct from the manufacturer Cytopharma.

The usual disclaimer: be careful to avoid combining it with stimulants, especially methylphenidate and amphetamine based ADD medications. Also, go easy with it because it's rather powerful stuff. At higher doses it tends to make me too anxious and OCD-like. I tend to do 1-2mg a day, and I am in my 20s (with ADD).

[stablemind]

I think it helps. Give it a try for a few weeks and see how it helps.

I recommend the liquid deprenyl since you can use a measured dose as low as 1mg, because it is 1mg per drop. I found it cheapest to get direct from the manufacturer Cytopharma.

The usual disclaimer: be careful to avoid combining it with stimulants, especially methylphenidate and amphetamine based ADD medications. Also, go easy with it because it's rather powerful stuff. At higher doses it tends to make me too anxious and OCD-like. I tend to do 1-2mg a day, and I am in my 20s (with ADD).

how has it helped you? what type of ADD are you?

[gray.bot]

I have found that pramiracetam increases goal seeking behaviour.

Modafinil is like a super weapon to get work done. Small problem is you've got to line it up before you blast it so a well defined plan for the day helps. If you don't you'll find you did so much stuff, but it was all the wrong stuff. Whoops!

It's probably worth you considering (gasp) natural ways of getting motivated, or more importantly inspired!

I've found the most powerful method to get motivated about anything, even if it's something you super don't want to do, is Cognitive Restructuring.

It's kind of like using a Nuclear Warhead to explode a wasps nest in your backyard, but boy does it get the job done!

[noos]

How do you do Cognitive Restructuring?

[anagram]

puzzles, exercise, listing things, planning, nootropics.

[jadamgo]

How do you do Cognitive Restructuring?

It's the "cognitive" part of Cognitive/Behavioral Therapy. The basic, core cognitive restructuring exercise is to write down your thoughts, attitudes, and beliefs about a situation, then check them with a reference sheet of very common thinking errors to see if you've made any mistakes in your understanding of the situation. Then you write down new replacement thoughts/attitudes that are based on a more realistic, less impulsive understanding. Finally, you make a quick rating of if you now feel the same as you did earlier, or a little better, a lot better, or completely relieved.

It takes at least 5 minutes to do a cognitive restructuring worksheet, and depending on how many extra elements you add (rating individual emotions, describing the situation like a neutral journalist, behavior-chain analysis...) it can take up to a half-hour. But it gets the job done like nothing else, as long as you're willing to consider the chance that your thoughts might be mistaken or distorted by strong emotions.

Given the time and effort spent on a typical cognitive restructuring worksheet, the nuking-a-wasps-nest comparison is pretty spot-on. CBT was originally developed as a treatment for clinical depression and anxiety disorders, and later expanded and reworked to treat everything from personality disorders to schizophrenia and even to help ordinary, normal people's struggles like procrastination and arguments with spouses.

So yeah, cognitive restructuring can be overkill sometimes, but given how many people on this board are struggling with motivation, trying scores of pharmaceuticals and herbs and stacks that often seem underpowered in the end, a little overkill can be a huge relief.

Edited by jadamgo, 01 February 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[noos]

Thanks jadamgo. I will search and see if I can find an example worksheet online.

Thanks jadamgo. I will search and see if I can find an example worksheet online.

[Adaptogen]

Let me know if you find a good one, I am interested in cognitive restructuring as well.

[anagram]

- negative restructuring?
https://www.youtube....h?v=OPugRnlP7Aw

Edited by anagram, 01 February 2013 - 08:56 PM.

[jadamgo]

The best way to teach yourself cognitive restructuring is from David Burns' Feeling Good Handbook, which most libraries have and is available really cheap from amazon. But for those interested in online resources:
http://www.morningli...ed_Thinking.pdf List of distortions of thought and attitude

I don't like any of the restructuring worksheets I found online. Here's one I made for myself, which can be used together with the above distortion list: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

[NeuroNootropic]

I want to try CBT for low motivation and anhedonia. Can it work for anhedonia? My problem isn't particularly negative thoughts, but not feeling like doing something. Also, I can get myself to exercise very easily and when I'm exercising I like to push myself beyond my limits, but whenever I have a task that I want to do which requires focus and concentration, I just can't get myself to do it. Which thinking error might you categorize that as? I'm guessing it's emotional reasoning.

[jadamgo]

I want to try CBT for low motivation and anhedonia. Can it work for anhedonia? My problem isn't particularly negative thoughts, but not feeling like doing something. Also, I can get myself to exercise very easily and when I'm exercising I like to push myself beyond my limits, but whenever I have a task that I want to do which requires focus and concentration, I just can't get myself to do it. Which thinking error might you categorize that as? I'm guessing it's emotional reasoning.

Yes, CBT is well equipped to deal with both of those problems. It was originally developed for depression, and anhedonia/low motivation are big parts of depression.

Usually, lack of motivation involves "fortune telling" because you're deciding ahead of time that you won't enjoy the activity. It also involves "all-or-nothing thinking" if you're seeing the activity as either good or bad, instead of including both pleasant and unpleasant feelings. And wherever there's all-or-nothing thinking, there's usually also "negative mental filter" and "discounting the positive."

Of course, you're also right to call it "emotional reasoning" because the mental process underlying procrastination is this: "I feel bad thinking about it, so doing it will feel even worse." Not that you're consciously, verbally thinking that -- notice how ridiculous it sounds to actually say those words! But it's an unconscious thought, and part of the magic of CBT is bringing all of these unconscious or barely-conscious thought processes out into the open so you can replace them with reasonable thoughts.

Anhedonia involves the same errors as lack of motivation, but is more likely to also include "overgeneralization."

[Babychris]

how the hell do you get selegiline ? Everybody here have a prescription huh ?

[leftside]

Get mine from an awesome research chemcial site in Canada.

[8bitmore]

Get mine from an awesome research chemcial site in Canada.

Yeees?

[gray.bot]

Get mine from an awesome research chemcial site in Canada.

Yeees?

You need to provide a bunch of proof of business, use of chemicals for research, proof of legality in your country etc... but it's legit.

I've PMed you a source that is a piece of cake to get from, cause I'm in a jooly mood this morning.

The best way to teach yourself cognitive restructuring is from David Burns' Feeling Good Handbook, which most libraries have and is available really cheap from amazon. But for those interested in online resources:
http://www.morningli...ed_Thinking.pdf List of distortions of thought and attitude

I don't like any of the restructuring worksheets I found online. Here's one I made for myself, which can be used together with the above distortion list: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

I want to try CBT for low motivation and anhedonia. Can it work for anhedonia? My problem isn't particularly negative thoughts, but not feeling like doing something. Also, I can get myself to exercise very easily and when I'm exercising I like to push myself beyond my limits, but whenever I have a task that I want to do which requires focus and concentration, I just can't get myself to do it. Which thinking error might you categorize that as? I'm guessing it's emotional reasoning.

Yes, CBT is well equipped to deal with both of those problems. It was originally developed for depression, and anhedonia/low motivation are big parts of depression.

Usually, lack of motivation involves "fortune telling" because you're deciding ahead of time that you won't enjoy the activity. It also involves "all-or-nothing thinking" if you're seeing the activity as either good or bad, instead of including both pleasant and unpleasant feelings. And wherever there's all-or-nothing thinking, there's usually also "negative mental filter" and "discounting the positive."

Of course, you're also right to call it "emotional reasoning" because the mental process underlying procrastination is this: "I feel bad thinking about it, so doing it will feel even worse." Not that you're consciously, verbally thinking that -- notice how ridiculous it sounds to actually say those words! But it's an unconscious thought, and part of the magic of CBT is bringing all of these unconscious or barely-conscious thought processes out into the open so you can replace them with reasonable thoughts.

Anhedonia involves the same errors as lack of motivation, but is more likely to also include "overgeneralization."

Can I just say that this stuff is the gold of gold of gold of info. Jadamgo everything you post seems to be lined with gold - you are the awesomest guy ever!

Peoples read this stuff because CBT has really changed my life and helped me - it's like taking a nuclear bomb to your problems/issues

[Babychris]

Thanks But I found it yesterday in 30 min of searching great website but I'll see your. Thanks ... If you have an Hydergine source I'm on :p (You say that you're in a great mood haha)

[Citrus Bolt]

Get mine from an awesome research chemcial site in Canada.

Yeees?

You need to provide a bunch of proof of business, use of chemicals for research, proof of legality in your country etc... but it's legit.

I've PMed you a source that is a piece of cake to get from, cause I'm in a jooly mood this morning.

The best way to teach yourself cognitive restructuring is from David Burns' Feeling Good Handbook, which most libraries have and is available really cheap from amazon. But for those interested in online resources:
http://www.morningli...ed_Thinking.pdf List of distortions of thought and attitude

I don't like any of the restructuring worksheets I found online. Here's one I made for myself, which can be used together with the above distortion list: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

I want to try CBT for low motivation and anhedonia. Can it work for anhedonia? My problem isn't particularly negative thoughts, but not feeling like doing something. Also, I can get myself to exercise very easily and when I'm exercising I like to push myself beyond my limits, but whenever I have a task that I want to do which requires focus and concentration, I just can't get myself to do it. Which thinking error might you categorize that as? I'm guessing it's emotional reasoning.

Yes, CBT is well equipped to deal with both of those problems. It was originally developed for depression, and anhedonia/low motivation are big parts of depression.

Usually, lack of motivation involves "fortune telling" because you're deciding ahead of time that you won't enjoy the activity. It also involves "all-or-nothing thinking" if you're seeing the activity as either good or bad, instead of including both pleasant and unpleasant feelings. And wherever there's all-or-nothing thinking, there's usually also "negative mental filter" and "discounting the positive."

Of course, you're also right to call it "emotional reasoning" because the mental process underlying procrastination is this: "I feel bad thinking about it, so doing it will feel even worse." Not that you're consciously, verbally thinking that -- notice how ridiculous it sounds to actually say those words! But it's an unconscious thought, and part of the magic of CBT is bringing all of these unconscious or barely-conscious thought processes out into the open so you can replace them with reasonable thoughts.

Anhedonia involves the same errors as lack of motivation, but is more likely to also include "overgeneralization."

Can I just say that this stuff is the gold of gold of gold of info. Jadamgo everything you post seems to be lined with gold - you are the awesomest guy ever!

Peoples read this stuff because CBT has really changed my life and helped me - it's like taking a nuclear bomb to your problems/issues

Could you send me your source as well? I've found a couple that seem good, but it would be great to have one tried and true.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 06 August 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[truboy]

bump