52 replies to this topic

[VespeneGas]

So it appears that I'll be battling chronic bacterial prostatitis, which means about 6-12 weeks of antibiotics (yikes! maybe even quinolones/fluoroquinolones!) and even then it doesn't get cured in some cases. So, a couple questions:

Has anyone dealt with this disease before and if so, what worked?
What supplements show the best efficacy in chronic bacterial infections (maybe you know this, funk?) and which protect the body from antibiotic induced damage?

I'm currently taking (immune wise) 200 mg of 1-3/1-6 beta glucans, 3g astragalus, 1.2g quercetin, 15g glutamine, and 800mg green/white tea polyphenols per day in divided doses.

Thanks, I'm really determined to get rid of this thing for good.

[Matt]

This is a very difficult one to get cleared up. First before even thinking about a 12 weeks course of quins you should get a definite diagnoses? Have you? Do you know the organism involved? Have you had cultures done from the prostate? If this is yes then you should try something called "D MANNOSE". You can research this because the information is easily available on the net. What it is very effect at is preventing and even curing bladder infections caused by E coli. It has to be E coli for it to work... this will decrease some symptoms with your condition and help you a great deal! A lot of the symptoms from chronic prostatitis are caused by the frequent low grade bladder infections. Now does it get to the prostate? I don't know... but you could try the method described here http://news.bigg.net..._Sufferers.html It's cheap, 100% safe, and worth a shot to reduce your symptoms. If the organism is not E coli then it wont do anything... 90% of UTI's are caused by E coli though! You can buy D mannose from AOR. http://www.d-mannoseworks.com/ (information on the sugar)

Now one thing I tried (and I know it sounds lol) is broccoli broth, yes, I brought 300-500g of broccoli to boil and then simmered for 5-6 minutes and drank the broccoli water (300ml or so), about 20 minutes later ate the broccoli. This works incredibly fast if one twice a day, and I found that it worked for many other people too when talking to them. This is one of the compounds in broccoli http://www.activamun...data_center.htm and apparently in-vivo studies it's found to dramatically increase immune response in the short term. There was a report about Broccoli and immune system here ; http://www.medicalne...icles/80274.php


and here is that suggested the procotol.
http://www.chronicpr...m/broccoli.html

I know it sounds weird, but it seems to work.

Now because this is very hard to cure, and quinolones are by far the best treatment possible from medicine... you might end up requiring it. But have you considered either;

- Trimethoprim (alone)
- Trimethoprim and sulfamethoxazole
- Doxycycline

These 3 do get to the prostate gland but the cure rate is much lower, around 30-50% I think. Apparently in some studies on mice using Green Tea extract they were able to combine it with an antibiotic for better success. There was also a recent study suggesting that green tea enhances all antibiotics tested.
http://www.scienceda...80330200640.htm

If you really have to then take a quinolone then make sure you're NOT deficient in magnesium because it predisposes you to connective tissue problems with tendons and ligaments among other problems including neurological. Make sure you're taking high dose Vitamin E at the time of the therapy because it helps prevent the achilles tendinitis associated with quins. Any symptoms like insomnia, tendon pains, joint pains you should stop taking it right away. Personally I can't ever take a quinolone again because it caused long term neurological damage (CNS/PNS), vision and hearing damage, tendon/ligament damage, skin issues,and a bunch of other nasty stuff affecting my whole body. I was screwed up for over a year, and still recovering from more minor issues. So good luck

Edited by Matt, 06 January 2009 - 12:10 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

The main concern with extended courses of antibiotics is liver protection. I take a hefty dose of silymarin for this purpose and have not seen any elevation of liver enzymes after six months of high doses of multiple antibiotics. Additional considerations and precautions may depend on the particular drug you are prescribed.

D-Mannose is only active against e-coli (specifically binds to the adhesion proteins on that bacteria only) on surfaces that come in direct contact with urine (bladder, urethra). It may be worth trying, because it might be effective if e-coli has infected the prostate and the adjoining urinary tract is acting as a reservoir or "home base" for it. Otherwise I don't think it will be useful in your case.

It is preferable in this case to eliminate the infection primarily with antibiotics and depend on the immune system to mop up any stragglers. To defeat the infection with the immune system alone, you would need massive infiltration of white cells into the prostate, which would be very uncomfortable and destructive to the tissue (inflammation). This is already happening to some degree and is responsible for your symptoms. You can try something harmless like doxycycline first and see if it helps, but if it doesn't, you will have to bite the bullet and use a quinolone.

[rwac]

The main concern with extended courses of antibiotics is liver protection. I take a hefty dose of silymarin for this purpose and have not seen any elevation of liver enzymes after six months of high doses of multiple antibiotics. Additional considerations and precautions may depend on the particular drug you are prescribed.

D-Mannose is only active against e-coli (specifically binds to the adhesion proteins on that bacteria only) on surfaces that come in direct contact with urine (bladder, urethra). It may be worth trying, because it might be effective if e-coli has infected the prostate and the adjoining urinary tract is acting as a reservoir or "home base" for it. Otherwise I don't think it will be useful in your case.

It is preferable in this case to eliminate the infection primarily with antibiotics and depend on the immune system to mop up any stragglers. To defeat the infection with the immune system alone, you would need massive infiltration of white cells into the prostate, which would be very uncomfortable and destructive to the tissue (inflammation). This is already happening to some degree and is responsible for your symptoms. You can try something harmless like doxycycline first and see if it helps, but if it doesn't, you will have to bite the bullet and use a quinolone.

Funk, How much silymarin do you take ?

[FunkOdyssey]

480mg of silymarin daily using 2 capsules of this:

http://www.iherb.com...px?pid=802&at=0

[Matt]

Have you considered trying high dose vitamin D3 for a few days?

You might want to check out these links. Vitamin D3 seems to be very important in part of the innate immune system and protection from UTI's by up regulating expression of LL37 peptides which kill bacteria. I'm talking pretty high doses here, it has been done before and some experimentation using higher doses... but something like 100,000 IU a day for 3 days. It might be worth looking at your current blood levels of 25(OH)D3 first though, and then monitoring blood work after... but it should be safe.

By the way, I don't have any prostate symptoms anymore and I have done upto 50,000IU per day for 3 days. No side effects. Though I can't claim anything about whether D3 helped or not.

See;

http://www.medwire-n..._infection.html

and

http://www.rosacea-r....php/Vitamin_D3 (this has a lot of good links to studies and reports).

Even if you do try go a more natural route, it's probably likely there will still be bacteria surviving and cause a relapse at a later date. I can't see that having a low grade chronic inflammation in the prostate is good either. Hoe you manage to beat it!

Edited by Matt, 06 January 2009 - 06:50 PM.

[stephen_b]

This post talks about potassium iodide being "100% effective" against bladder infections, FWIW.

StephenB

[VespeneGas]

So I saw a urologist this morning. After a couple highly, er, uncomfortable procedures, it turns out it IS in fact prostatitis, enterococcus (which surprised me) bacterial prostatitis to be exact. So that rules out D mannos. However, I'm planning on taking a multi-pronged approach. I still have some diindolylmethane sitting around from my bodybuilding days, and a crap-ton of vitamin d pills, so I'll be taking both to try to kick the innate immune system into high gear as an adjunct to the - gasp! - ciprofloxacin. I'm only scheduled for a short course (21 days) right now, and because I've taken it before without drastic complications, I think I'm gonna give it a shot

Anything I should know about protecting myself from quinolones other than taking magnesium and milk thistle? Also, anyone know how much a 25(OH) level check costs?

Thanks so much for your helpful suggestions!

[FunkOdyssey]

That's actually not that surprising, some enterococcus species are regular gut inhabitants. Most UTI's (and thereby prostate infections) are caused by normally harmless gut flora that make it to the urinary tract as a consequence of innocent mistakes in hygiene.

[Matt]

Although you can take magneisum during the quin therapy, you need to avoid taking it around the same time as the medication because it prevents the absorption.

Cytotoxicity in ciprofloxacin-treated human fibroblast cells and protection by vitamin E
http://het.sagepub.c...tract/21/12/635

Effects of Ciprofloxacin and Magnesium Deficiency on the Extracellular Matrix Proteins and Integrins of Tendons in Immature Dogs.
http://gateway.nlm.n...=102244628.html

Synergistic effect between catechin and ciprofloxacin on chronic bacterial prostatitis rat model
http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=16910723

Synergistic effect between lycopene and ciprofloxacin on a chronic bacterial prostatitis rat model
http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=20223795

Good luck man, let us know how it goes!

Edited by Matt, 06 January 2009 - 10:37 PM.

[zorba990]

This post talks about potassium iodide being "100% effective" against bladder infections, FWIW.

StephenB

<sigh> I know I will be in the minority here but I'd like to weigh in with an alternate opinion.

Fighting bacterial infections (that are non life threatening) with antibiotics is a losing battle.
A much better course of action is to introduce more benign competing organisms. EM (Effective
Microorganisms) and or Genestra's HMF would be my choice. Orally would take some time so
I would go straight for the other end.

[niner]

Since no one's mentioned it, I'll throw in a plug for probiotics. Any long course of antibiotics, and 21 days is getting up there, can weird out your normal gut flora. I don't know if it's helpful to take them during the antibiotic treatment, although it might be. If doing that, you would probably want to take the probiotics several hours before or after the antibiotic, if not longer. Probably the biggest single danger of a long course of antibiotics is the development of a Clostridium difficile colitis. C. difficile is a common bacterium, and exists in spore form in many people's intestines. If the rest of the gut flora are killed, it opens up a niche. I had this once toward the end of a month of penicillin due to (a possibly false) diagnosis of Lyme disease. The only symptom in my case was a weird diarrhea which I had only off-handedly mentioned to my doctor because it didn't seem that bad. It was confirmed via stool culture (now there's a ton of fun...) and cleared up easily with a short course of metronidazole. The problem with it is that it can get really nasty and could kill you within days in a worst-case scenario. At the very least you should be suspicious of any diarrhea, abdominal pain, or fever that develops during an antibiotic course. Ciprofloxacin is not the worst offender in terms of C. difficile induction, but that's an occasional problem with it.

As Matt mentioned, it would be sensible to make sure your magnesium and E is topped up, and your D3 as well. This is a good idea for anyone, really, but if it's helpful in avoiding quinolone complications, so much the better.

Edited by niner, 07 January 2009 - 04:32 AM.

[niner]

<sigh> I know I will be in the minority here but I'd like to weigh in with an alternate opinion.

Fighting bacterial infections (that are non life threatening) with antibiotics is a losing battle.
A much better course of action is to introduce more benign competing organisms. EM (Effective
Microorganisms) and or Genestra's HMF would be my choice. Orally would take some time so
I would go straight for the other end.

If the infection were in the nose or gut, it seems like the competing organism idea would be good. Of course, even there, sometimes you can get a really nasty bug where the best course of action is to kill it before it does too much damage. In the case of prostatitis, wouldn't that be a place where you don't normally find microorganisms? I don't know, but it doesn't sound like the kind of place that would be swarming with little guys. At any rate, the "other end" in this case would be, umm, interesting.

[FunkOdyssey]

Probiotics are a really good idea to prevent negative consequences from the antibiotics. You aren't going to cure prostatitis with them though, you need the antibiotics.

Fighting bacterial infections (that are non life threatening) with antibiotics is a losing battle.

Chronic prostatitis is not immediately life-threatening but I would expect a substantially increased risk of prostate cancer as a result of all the inflammation. You want to nip this in the bud, not let it smolder for months while experimenting with urinary probiotic douches or whatever you are talking about here.

[mike250]

i don't want to hijack the poster's thread but what if it was non-bacterial prostatitis. I imagine antibiotics wouldn't help much.

[kenj]

>>> i don't want to hijack the poster's thread but what if it was non-bacterial prostatitis. I imagine antibiotics wouldn't help much.

Go easy with the red steak, and give the prostate a break in sexual activities (ejaculating). Eat/supplement compounds from plants, fruits.

[Mixter]

What supplements show the best efficacy in chronic bacterial infections

Garlic, green tea (google "green tea fights superbugs"), lactoferrin, olive leaf extract, elderberry, cranberry
200mg DHEA at morning (with a LARGE dose of saw palmetto which you should take anyhow to prevent benign prostate hyperplasia due to the inflammation)

and which protect the body from antibiotic induced damage?

B12 and multivit., daily probiotics (this will also protect you from opportunistic infections!), Vit C, whey protein to boost white blood cells

IMO nobody should take (fluoro)quinolones unless as a last resort, too much risk of neurotoxicity if not by the original substance, then by fluroide metabolites!

Apparently, you can resort to a combo of macrolides and sulfonamide antibiotics against prostatitis:

http://en.wikipedia....ial_prostatitis

Treatment requires prolonged courses (4-8 weeks) of antibiotics that penetrate the prostate well (β-lactams and nitrofurantoin are ineffective). These include quinolones (ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin), sulfas (Bactrim, Septra) and macrolides (erythromycin, clarithromycin). Persistent infections may be helped in 80% of patients by the use of alpha blockers (tamsulosin (Flomax), alfuzosin), or long term low dose antibiotic therapy.[3] Recurrent infections may be caused by inefficient urination (benign prostatic hypertrophy, neurogenic bladder), prostatic stones or a structural abnormality that acts as a reservoir for infection.

PS: As a critical step, please also be sure to construct additional pylons :-P

Edited by mixter, 07 January 2009 - 09:07 AM.

[david ellis]

>>> i don't want to hijack the poster's thread but what if it was non-bacterial prostatitis. I imagine antibiotics wouldn't help much.

Go easy with the red steak, and give the prostate a break in sexual activities (ejaculating). Eat/supplement compounds from plants, fruits.

I was just thinking the opposite advice. It has been called "priest's disease" as it can be brought on by sexual abstinence. It seems not enough or too much are possible causes.

[Brainbox]

Regarding vitamin D and immunity.

Vitamin D and the immune system: role in protection against bacterial infection.
Bikle DD.

Veterans Affairs Medical Center, San Francisco, California 94121, USA. Daniel.bikle@ucsf.edu

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: The role of vitamin D extends well beyond that of regulating calcium homeostasis. One of these areas is immune function. Immunity is both adaptive and innate, and vitamin D signaling is operative in both. This review will examine these actions of vitamin D, in particular the role of vitamin D in host defense against infection. RECENT FINDINGS: This review will consider two examples of vitamin D-regulated innate immunity that have been recently explored: the role of vitamin D signaling within macrophages to enable them to respond to and kill Mycobacterium tuberculosis organisms, and the role of vitamin D signaling in the keratinocytes of the epidermis to enable them to respond to disruption of their barrier function. Potential application to periodontal disease will then be considered. SUMMARY: Both adaptive and innate immune processes are two edged: beneficial and harmful. Although suppression of adaptive immunity may be beneficial in a number of self-destructive diseases, such suppression may predispose to infection. Enhancement of innate immunity is clearly beneficial in diseases like tuberculosis, but potentiation of proinflammatory processes can increase tissue destruction as in bone loss in periodontal disease. The balance, however, favors adequate vitamin D nutrition in host defense against infection.

PMID: 18660668 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[VespeneGas]

Season's greetings and a very mixed update -

After 3 doses of the Cipro, I've noticed 2 things.

1. immediate reduction in UT symptoms

2. I am being floxed.

Some transient ringing in my left ear, tendon pain in left leg, inexplicable muscle pain in left forearm. Now I understand my mysterious tendon inflammation which sprung up after my last round of cipro (before I knew about quinolones). Sigh. Well, I'm gonna try to stick it out, and discontinue treatment if my symptoms worsen or new ones crop up. In the mean time, I've got zinc for the prostate, vitamin c/copper for callogen, magnesium and plenty of protein for the tendons, nettle for the inflammation, E complex for the cytotoxicity, DIM and vitamin d3 for immune activation, and yogurt for the gut. Among others. Jesus christ!

Thanks for the suggestions; I may not adopt them (I don't think there's any bacteria I'd like inhabiting my prostate ) but I appreciate them.

[niner]

2. I am being floxed.

Some transient ringing in my left ear, tendon pain in left leg, inexplicable muscle pain in left forearm. Now I understand my mysterious tendon inflammation which sprung up after my last round of cipro (before I knew about quinolones). Sigh. Well, I'm gonna try to stick it out, and discontinue treatment if my symptoms worsen or new ones crop up.

Oh, that blows. Considering what a mess this can make of a person, I'd consider switching to trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (bactrim), a macrolide (e.g. biaxin) , or anything else that would be likely to work. It's worth a call to the urologist. It's very unlikely that quinolones are the only thing that will work here.

Oh Matt... Paging Dr. Matt...

[NDM]

why you don't try pygeum? It's cheap & safe (+ in Europe is just as known as saw palmetto). Maybe the two do not have fully overlapping mechanisms of action.

Pygeum africanum for the treatment of patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia: a systematic review and quantitative meta-analysis.

Am J Med. 2000 Dec 1;109(8):654-64.

PURPOSE: To conduct a systematic review and quantitative meta-analysis of the therapeutic efficacy and tolerability of Pygeum africanum in men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia. METHODS: Studies were identified through the search of Medline (1966 to 2000), Embase, Phytodok, the Cochrane Library, bibliographies of identified trials and review articles, and contact with relevant authors and drug companies. Randomized trials were included if participants had symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia, the intervention was a preparation of P. africanum alone or in combination with other phytotherapeutic agents, a control group received placebo or other pharmacologic therapies for benign prostatic hyperplasia, and treatment duration was at least 30 days. Two investigators independently extracted key data on design features, subject characteristics, and therapy allocation.RESULTS: A total of 18 randomized controlled trials involving 1,562 men met the inclusion criteria and were analyzed. Many studies did not report results in a method that permitted meta-analysis. Only 1 of the studies reported a method of treatment allocation concealment, although 17 were double-blinded. The mean study duration was 64 days (range 30 to 122). Compared with placebo in 6 studies, P. africanum provided a moderately large improvement in the combined outcome of urologic symptoms and flow measures as assessed by an effect size defined by the difference of the mean change for each outcome divided by the pooled standard deviation for each outcome (-0.8 SD [95% confidence interval (CI): -1.4 to -0.3]). Summary estimates of individual outcomes were also improved by P. africanum. Men were more than twice as likely to report an improvement in overall symptoms (risk ratio = 2.1, 95% CI: 1.40 to 3.1). Nocturia was reduced by 19% and residual urine volume by 24%; peak urine flow was increased by 23%. Adverse effects due to P. africanum were mild and similar to placebo. The overall dropout rate was 12% and was similar for P. africanum (13%), placebo (11%), and other controls (8%; P = 0.4 versus placebo and P = 0.5 versus other controls).CONCLUSIONS: The literature on P. africanum for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia is limited by the short duration of studies and the variability in study design, the use of phytotherapeutic preparations, and the types of reported outcomes. However, the evidence suggests that P. africanum modestly, but significantly, improves urologic symptoms and flow measures. Further research is needed using standardized preparations of P. africanum to determine its long-term effectiveness and ability to prevent complications associated with benign prostatic hyperplasia.


see also this study on Epilobium parviflorum

doi:10.1016/j.jep.2005.07.007

[Mixter]

After 3 doses of the Cipro, I've noticed 2 things.

1. immediate reduction in UT symptoms

So you take an antibiotic and have immediate reduction in symptoms,
that would speak 100% for the bacterial infection, not against, no?

2. I am being floxed.

After 3 doses! Then you belong to the lucky group of people who have
intense adverse reactions to cipro. Google "death by cipro" for an inspiration.
I would immediately get the other 2 classes of antibiotics for UT/prostatitis
I mentioned instead of a quinolone.

[kenj]

>>> i don't want to hijack the poster's thread but what if it was non-bacterial prostatitis. I imagine antibiotics wouldn't help much.

Go easy with the red steak, and give the prostate a break in sexual activities (ejaculating). Eat/supplement compounds from plants, fruits.

I was just thinking the opposite advice. It has been called "priest's disease" as it can be brought on by sexual abstinence. It seems not enough or too much are possible causes.

Ya, balance is key; -- but sex is all about pleasure, and having chronic prostatitis during is NOT pleasurable........
AFAIK the inflammatory PGE2 is elevated in the prostate fluid in men with prostate trouble, - so everytime one ejaculates the concentrated PGE2 you get more irritation to the prostate and urethra. But total abstinence I wouldn't recommend, thou' as long as one has symptoms, it's probably helpful to take a break.

[Matt]

I've deleted this post about 5 times already lol.. because I don't want to try blow anything out of proportion and don't want to scare you.

If you're being serious and have tendon issues now, then I think you're insane to carry on. The unfortunate thing for me is that the majority of my symptoms kept escalating until peaking around 6-9 months after I stopped taking cipro. Even the moderate peripheral neuropathy didn't show up until exactly 3 1/2 months after stopping the drug. Though this is frequently observed in cancer chemotherapy drugs too (delayed neuropathy). As for the tendon thing, quinolone induced tendinitis (which frequently leads to tendonosis) isn't like a normal injury which heals quickly for most people and it can show up even a year after stopping the drug because the cipro prevents healing of the tendons as well as altering the tissue at the cellular level. The tinnitus is probably related to the NMDA receptor excitation from the cipro.

Profile of a floxie before being 'floxed'
What I did forget to say is that I built up a fairly solid profile of the persons who are called 'floxies'. They tend to be very active and athletic type, a big majority of them eat very healthy diets and very little if any junk food, most are vegetarian/vegan, most are lean. A lot of them never drank alcohol or smoked prior to the quinolone. To me they seemed like a very differerent set of people than the average person who might be more likely to take a quinolone antibiotic.

Edited by Matt, 08 January 2009 - 02:49 PM.

[VespeneGas]

The unfortunate thing for me is that the majority of my symptoms kept escalating until peaking around 6-9 months after I stopped taking cipro. Even the moderate peripheral neuropathy didn't show up until exactly 3 1/2 months after stopping the drug. Though this is frequently observed in cancer chemotherapy drugs too (delayed neuropathy).

No, I'm not kidding about the tendon pain. Ok, you've finally convinced me, I don't think this is a 'no pain, no gain' situation, it's probably a little gain, serious long-term pain one. I'm calling the urologist this morning and gettin' me some bactrim/doxy... ANYTHING but the poison I was prescribed this time. Thank you for being insistent in this matter, as I would certainly despise myself later if I knew the risk/harm and floxed myself up anyway. As for your profile of a floxie, it's a bit mixed in my case, as I'm lean, athletic, eat very clean, but I used to drink recreationally and smoke cigarettes! hmmm...

Don't worry mixter, I've been building pylons (taking the appropriate supplements) ever since the hive cluster came under attack (starting a quinolone) so hopefully that will mitigate some of the damage.

sigh.

[zorba990]

The unfortunate thing for me is that the majority of my symptoms kept escalating until peaking around 6-9 months after I stopped taking cipro. Even the moderate peripheral neuropathy didn't show up until exactly 3 1/2 months after stopping the drug. Though this is frequently observed in cancer chemotherapy drugs too (delayed neuropathy).

No, I'm not kidding about the tendon pain. Ok, you've finally convinced me, I don't think this is a 'no pain, no gain' situation, it's probably a little gain, serious long-term pain one. I'm calling the urologist this morning and gettin' me some bactrim/doxy... ANYTHING but the poison I was prescribed this time. Thank you for being insistent in this matter, as I would certainly despise myself later if I knew the risk/harm and floxed myself up anyway. As for your profile of a floxie, it's a bit mixed in my case, as I'm lean, athletic, eat very clean, but I used to drink recreationally and smoke cigarettes! hmmm...

Don't worry mixter, I've been building pylons (taking the appropriate supplements) ever since the hive cluster came under attack (starting a quinolone) so hopefully that will mitigate some of the damage.

sigh.

Don't forget manganese , zinc and vitamin C are also needed for tendons.
There's always this: (ouch!) http://www.chiroprac...enlargement.php

[VespeneGas]

Pain has officially spread to right hand, shoulder, left achilles, and feet. I've switched to Bactrim DS, and did the cartoon-character-gulping-fear-reaction while reading more lit on quinolones.

[kismet]

Pain has officially spread to right hand, shoulder, left achilles, and feet. I've switched to Bactrim DS, and did the cartoon-character-gulping-fear-reaction while reading more lit on quinolones.

So that makes for two out of our 200-1000 active members of whom only xx% took quinolones and who get those "extremely rare" (as they are described by most physicians) side-effects?
Do not take fluoroquinolones if your life doesn't depend on it, a truer word has not been spoken, huh?
I am constantly telling people on other boards to avoid quinolones as first line treatment (if others are available), but they never listen, it's really sad.

[Matt]

In personal communication with others, there are more than 2 of us on imminst that have had connective tissue problems related with quinolones. I won't name them unless speak out about it... The statistics on quinolone induced tendinitis is likely wrong and hugely under reported because even when patients have reported it their doctors dismiss it and its not getting reported. In other cases people do not associate any ligament damage, muscle or tendon damage with an antibiotic. I only took around 1175mg in total (3 doses) because I adjusted the dose for body weight. My first dose was was 250mg and that was the very first sign of bilateral achilles tendinitis and arthritic symptoms. Consider I've played football for 12 years+, karate, judo, boxing, ice skating, skateboarding, roller hockey, weight lifting, running, bike riding among other things and never had a tendon injury... I was completely shocked that just 1 dose could destroy my tendons...

I had ligaments, tendons and muscles affected. Two achilles tendons, two wrist tendons, sprained 3 of my fingers, sprained my two big toes, sprained ligament behind my knee, bilateral plantar fasciitis, lower back sprain, bilateral shoulder damage and a right groin injury, whiplash (sprained neck) by taking off my jumper... all since cipro, all since 3 doses... and considering the fact I was super fit all my life and never had any sort of sports related injury that didn't heal within days... this was a nightmare for me I'm still after 15 months trying to work my strength back up, I have a nodule on my left achilles tendon insertion point... No idea if I'll need surgery!

You're welcome to read my quinolone survivor story. There are many there you can read too
http://health.groups...ors/message/117

And I'm not crazy. I did not have any anxiety feelings at any point. 98% of the symptoms came and then went away in time, and they're pretty much identical to almost everyone else that gets floxed. And I'm not talking a few spots of tendinitis, floxed is much different. Even the very minor details that you don't even take much notice of show up. I was saying to them in month 3 that I won't get the eye floaters... they kept telling me that I would, maybe 6-9 months after I stopped the cipro. What the hell happened? month 6 my eyes are filled with floaters all over... I thought I had escaped them but nope haha. At least they're only 1 of my very few injuries left over as a reminder! Pretty much harmless in itself.

Quinolone are such a bad medication in that symptoms won't show up until months later. Much of the symptoms probably can be related to general nerve damage, including autonomic nerve damage, and connective tissue issues, and GABAa disruption and NMDA excitation are just a few things that could cause almost all the symptoms.

Edited by Matt, 09 January 2009 - 11:51 PM.