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Chronic Bacterial Infection


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#31 Mixter

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 11:17 PM

So that makes for two out of our 200-1000 active members of whom only xx% took quinolones and who get those "extremely rare" (as they are described by most physicians) side-effects?


Oh, probably lots more. I had cipro fun four years ago, tendonitis and at least two months of heavy chronic fatigue, attributed it to strep throat
instead of the cipro back then. Tendonitis responded well to daily stretching, glucosamine, msm. Oh and a strange benign
lymph tumor that required biopsy... never ever had strange stuff like that before or after... and I never reacted bad to any antibiotic
before good thing at least I megadosed dozens of stuff during the strep, so no neuro symptoms... also worth mentioning I got
put on heavy ibuprofen during that time which I found out was a huge contraindication.

#32 Matt

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 11:29 PM

I should say though that whatever I went through doesn't mean you will so please don't worry!. My kind of reaction could be like 1 in a million, I have no idea... and I dare not to speculate much further.

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#33 stephen_b

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 12:51 AM

I was on cipro for three days before a hive reaction caused me to stop. No lingering issues, I hope.

StephenB

#34 VespeneGas

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 04:07 AM

So I hope the pain has stopped proliferating. It's now been noted in my mid back, both shoulders, both wrists, right hand, both feet, left achilles, hamstring tendons in both legs, forearm muscles/tendons, knees, and hip. Heh. God, I've practically forgotten about the prostatitis. I'm just praying for no neurological symptoms (other than the transient tinnitus). Hopefully the boatload of supplements I took mitigated the damage.

Hey Matt, any recommendations for the next couple weeks? Is tylenol ok to help with sleep? Is supplemental manganese necessary?
Thanks for all the help. For the love of god stay away from these godawful drugs.

I am disgusted that with great exercise, diet, and supplementation, I now feel like I'm 75yo getting out of bed.

#35 Matt

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 04:18 PM

How are you now, has the prostatitis gone? Thought I should post these 3 useful studies. I guess there are other compounds which would also be synergistic.

Anti-inflammatory and antimicrobial effects of garlic and synergistic effect between garlic and ciprofloxacin in a chronic bacterial prostatitis rat model

Chronic bacterial prostatitis (CBP), which is characterised by recurrent urinary tract infection (UTI) and persistence of pathogenic bacteria and evidence of inflammation in the prostatic secretions, is one of the most common causes of relapsing UTI in men. In this study, we evaluated the antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory effects of garlic as well as the synergistic effect of garlic with ciprofloxacin on the treatment of CBP in an animal model. An experimental CBP model was induced in 60 adult male Sprague–Dawley rats by instillation of 0.2 mL of bacterial suspension (Escherichia coli Z17, O2:K1:H-) containing 1 × 108 colony-forming units/mL into the prostatic urethra. Microbiologically and histologically proven CBP was demonstrated in 68.3% (41/60) of the rats after 4 weeks of bacterial instillation. The 41 rats demonstrating CBP were randomly divided into four treatment groups: control; garlic; ciprofloxacin; and garlic plus ciprofloxacin. After 3 weeks of treatment, microbiological cultures of the urine and prostate samples as well as histological findings of the prostate were analysed. Microbiological cultures and histological findings of the prostate samples demonstrated reduced bacterial growth and improved inflammatory responses in all three experimental groups compared with the control group. The garlic group showed a statistically significant decrease in bacterial growth and improvement in prostatic inflammation compared with the control group. The garlic plus ciprofloxacin group showed a statistically significant decrease in bacterial growth and improvement in prostatic inflammation compared with the ciprofloxacin group. These results suggest that garlic may have anti-inflammatory and antimicrobial effects as well as a synergistic effect with ciprofloxacin. We therefore suggest that the combination of garlic and ciprofloxacin may be effective in treating CBP with a higher success rate.

Synergistic effect between catechin and ciprofloxacin on chronic bacterial prostatitis rat model
http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0

Background: Chronic bacterial prostatitis (CBP) is the most common urological disease in adult men. Antibiotic therapy is the gold standard of treatment. However, long-term therapy resulted in many side-effects and bacterial resistance. Because of these reasons, we need new treatment modality that could replace traditional antibiotic therapy. Catechin, an extract of green tea, has antimicrobial effect against various bacteria and synergy effect to antibiotics. We evaluate the synergistic effects of catechin on the treatment of CBP in an animal model.

Methods: An experimental CBP model was induced in 70 male Wistar rats by instillation of 0.2 mL bacterial suspension (E-coli Z17, O2:K1:H-) containing 1 × 108 CFU/mL into the prostatic urethra. Microbiologically and histologically proven CBP model was demonstrated in 58.6% (41 of 70) of the rats after 4 weeks of bacterial instillation. The 41 rats demonstrating CBP were randomly divided into four groups; the control, catechin, ciprofloxacin and catechin with ciprofloxacin groups. All drug treatments were conducted over a period of 2 weeks. After treatment, the results were analyzed with microbiological cultures and histological findings of the prostate and urine samples to compare each group.

Results: Microbiological cultures and histological findings of the prostate and urine samples demonstrated reduced bacterial growth and improved inflammatory responses in all three experimental groups compared with the control group. The catechin group showed coherent trends of decrease in bacterial growth and improvements in prostatic inflammation compared with the control group, but not to a statistically significant degree (P > 0.05). However, the ciprofloxacin and catechin with ciprofloxacin groups showed statistically significant decreases in bacterial growth and improvements in prostatic inflammation compared with the control group (P < 0.05). The catechin with ciprofloxacin group showed a statistically significant decrease in bacterial growth and improvements in prostatic inflammation compared with the ciprofloxacin group (P < 0.05).

Conclusions: These results suggest that catechin may be an effective material in CBP treatment. Particularly, combination treatment of catechin and ciprofloxacin has synergistic effect. Therefore, we suggest that the combination of catechin and ciprofloxacin may be effective in treating CBP with a higher success rate.

Synergistic effect between lycopene and ciprofloxacin on a chronic bacterial prostatitis rat model.
Traditionally, long-term antibiotic therapy has been the gold standard treatment for chronic bacterial prostatitis (CBP). However, the treatment outcome is not ideal and long-term administration of antibiotics can result in adverse effects and bacterial resistance. For these reasons, both patients and physicians are dissatisfied with the management of this disease and there is interest in phytotherapy and other alternative therapies. Lycopene, an extract of tomatoes, has been reported to have an anti-inflammatory effect via an antioxidative function. To evaluate the therapeutic effect of lycopene on CBP, we developed a CBP rat model treated with ciprofloxacin or lycopene, or both. After 2 weeks of treatment, results of microbiological cultures of the prostate and urine as well as histological findings of the prostate were analysed. The ciprofloxacin group and the lycopene/ciprofloxacin group showed a statistically significant decrease in bacterial growth and improvement in prostatic inflammation compared with the control group. The lycopene/ciprofloxacin group also showed a statistically significant decrease in bacterial growth and improvement in prostatic inflammation compared with the ciprofloxacin group. These results suggest that lycopene may have an additional (synergistic) effect with ciprofloxacin in the treatment of CBP.

#36 VespeneGas

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:18 PM

Turned out that my doctors were idiots (surprise surprise). Turned out that I have interstitial cystitis, for which there are no real treatments, but which I have under control by avoiding cayenne, chocolate, and high-dose vitamin C supplements. I had to figure all this out on my own, mind you. The months of antibiotics, not to mention the cipro toxicity, were for nothing.

As far as the cipro goes, I keep thinking I'm getting better, then get a bit worse again. Still need trazodone to sleep enough to function, feel anhedonic all the time, can't walk very far or use my hands or arms for much of anything. Joint pain might be improving, might be cycling, can't tell.

Thanks for checking up! Are your floxing symptoms still in remission?

#37 k10

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:31 PM

I was prescribed cipro for prostatitis a couple of days ago, tried one dose and felt like I was having a seizure so stopped. I demanded my doctor switch me to different antibiotics.

#38 VespeneGas

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 06:21 AM

I was prescribed cipro for prostatitis a couple of days ago, tried one dose and felt like I was having a seizure so stopped. I demanded my doctor switch me to different antibiotics.


You may have been having a seizure, cipro is a powerful GABA(a) antagonist.

#39 Centurion

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 08:01 AM

Is there any way of combating this cipro damage?
I have read (anecdotally) that boron may help?
I was on Cipro for 6 doses and I definitely noticed pain, ankles were swollen the size of my calfs and I damaged something in my back near the spine (back is constantly stiff now)
If there's a way to knock this in the head and stop it from escalating over time, I wouldn't mind giving it a go!

I'm taking cissus right now, but I'm not sure the mechanisms of action would tally up.

#40 Matt

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 09:36 AM

It's taken me about 18 months so that I can walk longer distance without any sesnation of pain or stiffness, or just uncomfort feeling. About the first 13 months I had so many different injuries all over the place. So make sure you're careful.... when the swelling goes down just wait a little while then go for some light stretching, and try this a few times a week
http://www.belmarpt....cise-series.jpg

I don't know what supplements help tendons, but maybe whey protein powder would be a good addition to your diet now. I was taking 3 x 25g of whey a day, I now take 2 servings. Although I think my tendons are almost back to normal I don't really know because I haven't had a chance or willing to really push myself like I did before. Everytime I did this I injured myself, I developed 4 or 5 tendon and ligment injuries just from simple stretching back in January, aswell as a 3 month long neck injury caused by taking off my jumper. I have played footall a few times recently, done a lot of garden work and other general work.... I walk without pain now. I have clearly progressed and don't feel any symtpoms lately with my achilles, but the left achilles still is clearly not normal because it goes quite dark red and purple colour near the tendon insertion point.

Unfortunately depending on how bad tendons are damaged. Recovery times vary, some take 1 year, 2 years, 4 years and sometimes never.

Which dose did the symptoms start? Have you stopped taking it? What supplements were you taking with your cipro?

We already have a few people who got tendon problems from cipro and its related drugs on this forum alone. Kind of odd considering the reaction is suppsed to be 'rare'.

Edited by Matt, 02 June 2009 - 09:38 AM.


#41 Centurion

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 12:41 PM

It's taken me about 18 months so that I can walk longer distance without any sesnation of pain or stiffness, or just uncomfort feeling. About the first 13 months I had so many different injuries all over the place. So make sure you're careful.... when the swelling goes down just wait a little while then go for some light stretching, and try this a few times a week
http://www.belmarpt....cise-series.jpg

I don't know what supplements help tendons, but maybe whey protein powder would be a good addition to your diet now. I was taking 3 x 25g of whey a day, I now take 2 servings. Although I think my tendons are almost back to normal I don't really know because I haven't had a chance or willing to really push myself like I did before. Everytime I did this I injured myself, I developed 4 or 5 tendon and ligment injuries just from simple stretching back in January, aswell as a 3 month long neck injury caused by taking off my jumper. I have played footall a few times recently, done a lot of garden work and other general work.... I walk without pain now. I have clearly progressed and don't feel any symtpoms lately with my achilles, but the left achilles still is clearly not normal because it goes quite dark red and purple colour near the tendon insertion point.

Unfortunately depending on how bad tendons are damaged. Recovery times vary, some take 1 year, 2 years, 4 years and sometimes never.

Which dose did the symptoms start? Have you stopped taking it? What supplements were you taking with your cipro?

We already have a few people who got tendon problems from cipro and its related drugs on this forum alone. Kind of odd considering the reaction is suppsed to be 'rare'.



Matt, while it isn't helpful in terms of your recovery, you really do have my deepest sympathy (and frankly anger on the matter, that this can happen)
I don't think my reaction was severe by any means, its now been a week since I took any pills and even at the time I was walking fine, just with a bit of a limp thanks to the swelling. As for my back, I had some odd tension along the spine, I kinda stretched and pushed my back forward with my hands and heard a loud snap, back has been spasmodic and tense since. I did however have previous back issues, the cipro probably just compounded them.

I took six doses of cipro in two separate sessions of 2 days and 1 day. In day 2 of the first session I noticed extreme swelling of the ankles after a rowing machine session. On the day following the second session I noticed back stiffness after an incline bench pressing session. After the second session I stopped fully. At the same time I was taking some antiinflammatories and some painkillers, also some cissus.

Right now other than an odd rippling sensation in my back muscles I notice no symptoms. This whole delayed reaction thing, though, that things can get worse over time has me worried and looking for ways to combat it. They say magnesium inhibits its absorption, I wonder does it aid in its excretion from tissue?

Ed

Edited by Centurion, 02 June 2009 - 01:06 PM.


#42 Matt

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:06 PM

I started drinking huge amounts of green tea because I found some studies showing purely from a mechanistic stand point, EGCG blocks or attenuates the rise of the same cytokines, mmp enzyhmes that cipro seemed to increase. Hence this could help prevent osteoarthritis from quin damage (which is why quins not supposed to be used in children). I think theres two things you can look at here. Tendinitis caused by a quinolone and then being 'floxed', which seesm to be a systemic problems affecting peripheral nerves, tendons, CNS, eyes, ears etc etc... Hopefully your only real issue is the tendon problem, that way you wont be limited in ways you can help recover from it.

On the downside, and I don't know if my CR played a part in this... my tendinitis was 'mild', no swelling, just a little red, and some pain when walking upstairs and standing for more than 10 minutes for the first month or two. Despite being mild it has been very persistent. Each time I made an effort to recover from stretching and exercise the problem would get worse not better, even if I went extremely slow with the stretching or exercise. It's insane to think that I never had a tendon injury in my life from playing football almost everyday since I was 5 or something, done karate, boxing, judo, skateboarding, climbing, weight lifting, yoga etc etc etc... never injured a tendon. 1st dose of cipro 250mg and I get tendon problems all over lol.

Ive noticed that people who tend to get affected by tendinitis are mostly active people, vegetarians, people who eat healthy and took supplements... the majority were non smokers and non drinkers too. They also tend to be very lean because of their lifestyle. To me these are the people that probably dont go to clinical trials or frequently get prescribed abx. It's difficult to figure out the dietary changes, CR, supplements, environmental factors and everything else on how these interact with drugs. I guess if its just tendons that are your problems and no obvious signs of neuropathy then you shouldnt worry :-D

If anyone has any soltions for floaters though, let me know :) A few people *predicted*, told me straight out that I would develop floaters within 9 months. I developed them around 6 months out. =/

Edit; one thing that people should never take with a quinolone also is NSAID's or steroids for inflammation. These both make tendon and CNS effects much more likely.

Edited by Matt, 02 June 2009 - 01:07 PM.


#43 Matt

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:24 PM

The main thing I would advise you to try and block is neuropathy, This doesn't mean you'll get it, but best to take supplements that help support and regenerate nerves. My real neuropathy symptoms didn't start until 3 months after I took cipro. Somehow I managed to block its progression significantly because mine only lasted for 2 weeks first time, then cycled for over 12 months. There used to be a large forum on quin toxicity and it seemed like I was one of the fastest recovered they've seen in 10 years.... So I personally think supplements definitely can help.


sorry you got side effects from cipro, did you not read my posts on this forum warning people to be careful with quinolones ?

Edited by Matt, 02 June 2009 - 01:26 PM.


#44 Centurion

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 02:04 PM

The main thing I would advise you to try and block is neuropathy, This doesn't mean you'll get it, but best to take supplements that help support and regenerate nerves. My real neuropathy symptoms didn't start until 3 months after I took cipro. Somehow I managed to block its progression significantly because mine only lasted for 2 weeks first time, then cycled for over 12 months. There used to be a large forum on quin toxicity and it seemed like I was one of the fastest recovered they've seen in 10 years.... So I personally think supplements definitely can help.


sorry you got side effects from cipro, did you not read my posts on this forum warning people to be careful with quinolones ?


ouch! I was on two different NSAIDs at the time :S I suspect in my case the swelling was due to the exercise I had been doing while taking them. Im currently taking ibuprofen, should I stop? I have bought some milk of magnesia as I am told it may help with the excretion of this stuff from tissue. Did your research about green tea focus on the polyphenols or on the tea itself, as I have been told green tea is very high in flouride which may exacerbate the issue.

Noticing today some neck tension up near the base of the skull, I really hope this isn't the start of a recurring string of random and strange problems, I only took 6 pills!

Ed

#45 Matt

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 02:13 PM

dude, read up on NSAIDs like Ibuprofen + ciprofloxacin. It dramatically increases the risk, especially for affecting the GABAa system. Yes I would stop taking it, but I don't know if it matters now if you've already stopped the cipro. I guess the drug would have left your system by now?

Check out this documetnary when you can

http://www.youtube.c...inAdverseEvents ( six parts ). The interviews mostly start at the end of the second video of people who got damaged, but try watch fromt he start.

also check out this news report that was on air al little while ago



Hope everythign settles down for you quickly.

Edited by Matt, 02 June 2009 - 02:24 PM.


#46 Centurion

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 03:14 PM

dude, read up on NSAIDs like Ibuprofen + ciprofloxacin. It dramatically increases the risk, especially for affecting the GABAa system. Yes I would stop taking it, but I don't know if it matters now if you've already stopped the cipro. I guess the drug would have left your system by now?

Check out this documetnary when you can

http://www.youtube.c...inAdverseEvents ( six parts ). The interviews mostly start at the end of the second video of people who got damaged, but try watch fromt he start.

also check out this news report that was on air al little while ago



Hope everythign settles down for you quickly.


I'll do some reading on this later. Hopefully I'll have been one of the lucky ones!

#47 Lufega

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:25 PM

I must say, this is an A+ thread. After researching prostatitis thoroughly, I found this thread and saw that everything was already covered. I also developed prostatitis recently and I tried everything out there in order to avoid using Cipro. This included metronidazole, ceftriaxone, amoxicilin, doxycycline, buchu extract, couch grass, prunella vugaris, D-mannose, cranberry extract and nothing worked ! I finally decided to try cipro under pressure from my Urologist and went on 2 7-day courses. I felt immediate relief after the first dose but when I stopped, all the symptoms came back. I felt frustrated..

After the first course of Cipro, I added Allimax and was using 360 mg, 3 times a day. Again I saw no difference. You have no idea how frustrated I felt. I thought this was the end of me as the length of the infection was causing sexual dysfunction as well. Anyways, I finished the last course of Cipro and the problem persisted. Not to mention, I got FLOXED terribly but I wont go into that.

Then, out of desperation, I decided to up the dose of Allimax and took 6 capsules of 180 mg allicin each totalling 1.08 grams. This stuff is worth its weight in gold. Within 30 minutes, all of my symptoms got better. My inguinal lymph nodes were so swollen I could not sit without feeling pain and even this improved ! I took the same dose again that night and almost one week later I am still symptom free. I believe Allimax cured my prostatitis and it did so in one day. It is simply amazing.

I went ahead and ordered two more bottles of their extra strength version (360 mg per capsule) and will supplement for a few weeks just in case. I will never, ever, ever use antibiotics again when this stuff is so effective. I was truly humbled by this experience. If this resolved a hard to reach prostate infection, I can only imagine what it will do for Lyme disease sufferers.

Oh, and the allimax and also the garlic oil gives me a rock hard erection. Who says you can't get a free lunch ??

Edited by Lufega, 29 October 2010 - 09:31 PM.


#48 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:55 PM

Wow, that is awesome. Thanks for sharing that Lufega.

#49 markymark

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:30 AM

great, that the Allimax did the trick....
Although not being affected by Prostatitis, I read the whoe therat too and would like to throw another option, maybee combined with Allimax..:

wild Oregano Oil 4-5 time/day 4-5 drops under the tongue, or with a sip of water...
The carvachol in Oregano is a strong in-vitro anti-biotic, anti-fungal anti-? thing...
maybe a good probiotic would be agood idea to combine with...
MM

#50 Lufega

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 04:04 AM

MM,

I actually bought some enteric coated oreganol and was going to add this to my arsenal. By the time it got there though, I believe to have been cured so I'll just keep it around for a rainy day. : )

#51 markymark

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 08:41 AM

MM,

I actually bought some enteric coated oreganol and was going to add this to my arsenal. By the time it got there though, I believe to have been cured so I'll just keep it around for a rainy day. : )


Good luck!!

#52 Ark

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:13 PM

maybe sulfazine

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#53 Strangelove

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:49 PM

I am having issues myself, I am looking into it and maybe EDTA could make a difference?

http://www.longecity...-health-issues/




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