11 replies to this topic

[Bruce Klein]

Society of Venturism :: David Pizer


David Pizer

Former Alcor Vice President, current owner of the Creekside Preserve/Ventureville, David Pizer graciously grants ImmInst an interview concerning physical immortality, cryonics and Venturism.

ImmInst: What's so bad about being dead forever?

David Pizer: You're kidding of course?

II: Not at all. I suspect many ImmInst members would be interested to know why you find death problematic.

DP: I guess I don't know enough about your group. I would think ImmInst members would find a desire to avoid death understandable without further discussion. What are the reasons they join your group?

II: ImmInst has a diverse membership base. While most members see death as bad, (oblivion) there are members who consider death a natural part of life. Not to mention, there are many individuals who wish to see better things in an afterlife.

DP: If one thinks there is an afterlife then they probably don't see as compelling need for cryonics as those who don't believe in an afterlife.

As far as death being a natural part of life so is pain and suffering. "Natural" does not automatically mean good. We need to change the bad parts of "natural."

II: Perhaps we can clarify... what would happen to you, your consciousness after death if your brain were not protected by cryonics?

DP: I believe consciousness is a product of the electrical and chemical activity of the brain. When your heart stops beating, your brain cells (without any protection) start to die. Not all of them at once. When a certain amount of your brain cells are irreversably dead, then you are dead. It is not a simple thing to explain.

There are two parts to a person as far as his/her brain is concerned. There is the part of the brain that "feels" consciousness & memories, and the part of the brain that retains memories. It is my belief that both parts are necessary for a complete person to continue on. Destructions of either one part, say that which holds memory, is only part of the destruction of a person.

It may be the case that it will be easier to rebuild (from death damaged debris) the part of the brain that feels consciousness. So a person might be revived with his/her original brain-meat that feels consciousness put back in similar (but not exact) working atomic position, and only part of his/her memories salvaged. This is something that a lot of cryonicists don't think about - being only partially revived as the original person. Does that count as having survived?

This leads to scenarios of only partial revival being available. What has to revived to say the original person has survived? 100% of my original "feeling" meat and 50% of my "memory" meat? or some other combination? If one accepts what I have said so far, then one would agree that reviving the original "feeling" meat is most important as memories can be infered and planted after revival from other material that was saved. (like a diary).

II: Could you describe the journey that has lead you to this point in your life?

DP: When I was a youngster (12 or 13 probably) I formed the opinion that death was the end of everything for me. When I first heard of cryonics I instantly thought of it as a rational gamble to try to avoid death.

The first time I heard about cryonics was around 1980 or so. I was a salesman calling on car dealers for business for our upholstery shop. Four or five salesmen from various companies (auto painter, tire shop, detail shop etc) were calling on this one auto dealer on a Monday morning for some business and one of the people had a local newspaper with a story about cryonics in it.

He said something like: "Those crazy people in California (Trans Time) are freezing people when they are dead so that someday science can unfreeze them and bring them back to life." All the other guys laughed and I said something like: "Can I have that article, please?"

I took it right back to my shop and looked up the number for Trans-Time and called them and told them I wanted to sign up at once. They mailed me some forms. In the meantime I purchase life insurance, got the forms and filled them out and mailed them back. Within a few days I was signed up.

Later I switched to Alcor.

II: What first attracted you the idea of physical immortality?

DP: For each individual, death is the end of everything (it's relative). If you enjoy life (as I do - even dealing with the problems), then you don't want it to end. The only way to not die someday, is to live forever - if that is
possible.

II: What prompted you to start the Society for Venturism?


DP: I met Mike Perry who had similar ideas as I did and the two of us worked it out and formed the Society. We want to proclaim our desire to avoid death.


Mike Perry - Alcor Patient Care Assistant
Author - "Forever For All: Moral Philosophy, Cryonics, and the Scientific Prospects for Immortality"


As a religion (and scientific and educational organization) our members have a legitimate defense when they state their religious objection to autopsy.

Speaking about cryonics and possible physical immortality from the position of an organization that does not take in any money when a person dies and gets frozen convince some people that we are not proclaiming our views to make money.


Society of Venturism

Some day all rational people will hold views similar to those of the Venturists. Someone has to be among the first.

II: Have you had the chance to use this defense yet?

DP: No.

Have you had the chance to marry a couple yet?

DP: Yes. Venturist ministers have performed several weddings.

II: Why the name change from "Church" of Venturism to "Society" For Venturism?

DP: It was thought that the word "Church" was too dominating. There are 3 ways to be approved by the feds for a non-profit status: religions, scientific and educational. We are approved under all 3.

We more consider ourselves an organization that is religious, scientific and educational then just one. Also "church" would best describe one place or a sub group. Venturism is a religion but there can be lots of churches of our members someday.

Anyhow, that was the thinking at the time of the change.

II: Could you tell us about your vision for Creekside Preserve Lodge and Venturville?

DP: At present, the Creekside Preserve Lodge is a resort open to the public. We have 15 cabins on the creek + four units in the lodge, other amenities and a conference room that holds about 100 people, all on 34 acres.

We hope to do more and more cryonics events and conferences. If and when the Creekside gets making a decent profit, we hope to purchase more land and subdivide into lots for homes and apartments where only cryonicists would live.


Creekside Preserve - Lodge & Guest Cabins
The Creekside Preserve Lodge and Guest Cabins features 15 cabins on Highway 69, Between Cordes Junction and Prescott, Arizona.

II: Why did you start the Physical Immortality magazine and how successful has this project been thus far?

DP: The magazine was started by Mike Perry (the editor - who does most of the work creating the magazine) and myself and the Venturist Board, (and a lot of hard in the marketing and distribution end work by John Grigg), as a way of trying to inform people about the prospect of physical immortality, in hopes of helping them to save their lives.

It has been a hard go. Finally we have a distributor that has about 300 small retail magazine stores who will handle the magazine and we are trying to get into one or more of the large bookstore chains.

In addition, we have about 100 people who regularly get the magazine in the mail and when we have extra copies we send them to some of our members who place them in public places, libraries and such.


John Grigg
General manager of the Creekside Preserve Lodge
Advisor and Secretary for The Society for Venturism

Our managing editor, John Grigg, recently sent out a few hundred copies to the most notable celebrities in the world in hopes of alerting some of them to the physical immortality movement. We are just now getting a few replies. (We can't mention who).

I estimate that it will take several more years of hard work and slow growing sales until we get the publicity to make our magasine a very popular one.



The Venturists have launched a new quarterly magazine called Physical Immortality designed to be sold from news stands, in order to educate a wider public about the opportunities offered by their philosophies and beliefs. More...

---

Related Article:

The Beginnings of a Cryonics Community in Arizona - By John Grigg

The Creekside Preserve Lodge, located in Mayer, Arizona, is the first step toward the creation of a permanent cryonics community to be called Ventureville. The lodge is open to the general public and will help generate the necessary revenue to make the cryonics enclave a reality.

The entire place is the brainchild of David Pizer, a former Alcor Vice President. He saw too many people fall by the wayside and never get suspended despite being signed-up cryonicists. He decided to do something about this problem. More...



David Pizer, Joe Hovey, Bill Hayworth, Hugh Hixon and Mike Perry

[Bruce Klein]

Message #24408
From: "David Pizer"
Subject: CREEKSIDE UPDATE
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:19:54 -0700

Hi Cryofriends

Things are really going well at the Creekside Lodge in Mayer Arizona. It has been raining the last few days and that really cools it off into the 70s and 80s in the day and real cool in the evenings. The desert has a lovely aroma after a rain and all the plants are green and beautiful. Lots of animals come out to play, deer, javalina, bunnies and we even saw a baby bobcat down by the creek a few weeks ago.

I have recently sold my two motels in the ski country in California and brought the manager, Mark Plus, over here from California to help John run the Creekside. It is really nice to have a little cryonics community budding. There have been several other cryonicists looking at property around here and are planning to move here soon.

We are going to be opening our restaurant and cantina next month. We will specialize in Mexican food. We have hired the great granddaughter of Pancho Villa, famous Mexican grommet and revolutionary. She has agreed to share long-thought-lost secret recipes. We will be featuring "Pancho's Food to Die For!" These are the meals Pancho's brave men partook of before charging the machine gun nests or throwing themselves on a grenade. Many people think Pancho fought for political reasons, but the real reason was to protect the secret rfamily es and now they shall be revealed for everyone to enjoy, even Federalies. Come by for some of our great food and wash it down with a big jug of ice cold Tequila and then a siesta in your own in-room jacuzzi.

We hope to double our business with the opening of the restaurant. Then in a year or so, we plan to triple the number of individual cabins. The new ones will be little log cabins with fireplaces and a Jacuzzi right in the middle of the bedroom.


Since we have a nucleus of cryonicists living and working here we all spend our spare time working on the world's fastest-growing cryonics magazine PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY. We have recently found some new distributors and we are now signing up special agents that sell subscriptions to waiting rooms like in doctors' offices and libraries and such. Mike Perry has done a splendid job as editor and the magazine gets better every quarter. We appreciate all the compliments and hope we can continue to please everyone. If you are not getting PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY you can sign up by sending $24 to The Venturists at 11255 State Route 69, Mayer Arizona 86333. you can also buy a full page advertisement in the magazine for $200 per quarter. What a great way to reach so many Immortalists. If you have a book or some other items to promote let us know. PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY makes a great gift for that friend of yours that you want to introduce to cryonics. Four quartes for $24 - what a bargain!

The BEST NEWS is that Trudy and I have also started another fabulous, new business here at the Creekside. We are raising, showing, breeding and selling the world's most beautiful animals, Friesian Horses. These are the large, black, beautiful horses that the knights galloped into battle on. They also pull(ed) the carriages for the Kings and Queens of Europe for centuries. These great steeds have the very very long manes and hair from above their hooves called "feathers." They sell for $25,000 to $100,000 for brood mares, and approved stallions (only a handful in the world) sell for over $1,000,000 each. Our goal is to reach 100 brood mares and have 100 babies each year. It is healthy for these horses to have one baby per year for 20 years. When you are visiting our facility please visit our equestrian center.

There is no more enjoyable way to make a living and experience a wonderful quality of life than to work at a facility .like the Creekside. The beautiful surroundings, the loving magnificent horses, the soon-to-be fun-filled evenings running the cantina. Those of us who live and work here thank our lucky stars each evening (and in the clear Mayer skies there are a lot of stars) for the opportunity to exist here in Mayer at the Creekside.

YOUR GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY AWAITS. The very best news is that with all the expansion and the prospect of even more expansion in a few years when we build the cryonics community, we need some more workers. We prefer to hire cryonicists who will become the core of an exciting intellectual cryonics community. We need cooks, waiters, wranglers, horse trainers and grooms. Sure there is some physical work involved, but that keeps the body in good shape. And there is a lot of mental challenging work and all those philosophical nights we will sit around the campfire and wax philosophically. It doesn't get any better than this folks.

If you would like to relocate to our high desert paradise which is just one hour north of Phoenix drop me a line. Tell me a little about yourself, what your dreams and desires are and what you would like to do. How much money you need to make to live on. Some of our employment opportunities include a lovely free place to live and all your meals.

Even if your plans to move here are in the future, drop me a line and introduce yourself.


Happy Trails to You, Forever.


David Pizer

[Bruce Klein]

Message #24415
From:
Subject: The Creekside Lodge & Society for Venturism, are shifting into
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:36:18 -0700

Dave Pizer wrote:

>> We need cooks, waiters, wranglers, horse trainers and grooms. Sure
>> there is some physical work involved, but that keeps the body in good
>> shape. And there is a lot of mental challenging work and all those
>> philosophical nights we will sit around the campfire and wax
>> philosophically. It doesn't get any better than this folks.


J. Corbally responded:
Crikey David, you should write a brochure! While I'll be making my way
to the U.S. to stay in the near future, I'll be a little further East, in
VA :( Still, it sounds divine over there!

>>


David has written many brochures and other pieces of advertising (not to mention the very popular Fitwell Auto
upholstery TV ads he did with Great Dane "Woofy" which made him a major Arizona celebrity). In the dictionary next to
the definition of "smooth" you will find a photograph of him! : ) He has taught me a great deal when it comes to
business, and especially in the area of marketing. Dave is one of the sharper tools you're likely to come across in
the workshed of life, and I am grateful to him for his patient mentoring of me. Dave had me put my personal sweat
equity into this place by having me actually help to build it, and it's wonderful to be able to be part of a great
project from the ground floor up. Dave is not always easy to work for, but he has done more for me than my own flesh
and blood father ever did (who I had to track down several years ago).

We certainly do have the beginnings of a cryonics community germinating here in Arizona. I enjoy my cryonics-related
conversations with Dave and Mark. When Mark and I are working together on some project one of us will sometimes make
a remark on something which not just anyone would quite understand. lol And it has been great to have several
different cryonicists visit for extended periods who were recently retired and now looking seriously at relocating
here. I enjoy picking their brain and learning about how they got into cryonics and what they have experienced (both
good and bad) within the movement.

One of my favorite people to come by and visit was Don Laughlin. I expected a huge entourage, but that was not the
case. He was very curious about the place and gave Dave a big hello. It turns out they have been friends for many
years, and Dave greatly looks up to him because of the way he took a ghost town and over decades of hard work
transformed it into what it is now. I went outside to take a photograph of them together and Dave introduced me. Don
very graciously included me in their conversation and I felt very welcome. He asked Dave if next time he could fly in
with his helicopter and he got the answer, "anytime!"

As Mark said in his post, this area is actually pretty dang civilized with a lot to offer in both country adventure
and citified comforts. In ten or twenty years people will look back on the area as it is now and say "things were so
quiet and sleepy back then!" The area between Prescott and Phoenix (at least where we are) is really growing by leaps
and bounds. When some of you come back from reanimation they will say "welcome to Presnix, citizen!"

Though Ventureville has not been built yet, we still have our share of local cryonicists close to Creekside (not even
counting Phoenix). Among these colorful characters are Mike Darwin and Charles Platt. In fact, Mike likes to
occasionally visit Charles because the two are so close to each other (in physical proximity). And so I think in time
Ventureville could be an ideal home for the both of them. Mike would not have to travel so far to visit Charles!

I'm very happy to have Mark "Aristos" Plus here. He is a reserved, yet friendly gentleman who is a voracious reader
of many different subjects (he wears out our poor local librarian with all his special orders). And believe me, it
shows in what he can discuss and write about. I realize many of you get the impression Mark is a very "doom and
gloom/the sky is falling!" kind of guy based on his Cryonet posts. But actually in "real life" he does not come
across that way. Mark's tabby/Louisiana coon cat, "Kahn" is the newest pet around here, and has become the new
unofficial Creekside Lodge greeter. Kahn is a very good-looking critter, and believe me; he gets told that day after
day by hosts of admiring women who lovingly pet him. Darn, lucky cat!

The restaurant project is going well and seems to be on schedule. I know from experience that a restaurant is A LOT
of work but I think with Dave's wise guidance we can succeed. Done right, the restaurant will really cause our cabin
occupancy rates to skyrocket! I thought Dave hiring the great granddaughter of Pancho Villa was a brilliant marketing
idea. She is a drop-dead gorgeous woman with a strong resemblance to Selma Hayak, the famous actress. Both Mark and
I are heart-broken though, because she refuses to date either of us! Of course I would be even more heart-broken if
she were to date Mark instead of me... Kahn, of course, gets all sorts of loving and food from her whenever he wants
it.

Dave's grand vision of this place has definitely caught my imagination. Tripling the number of cabins (if we can keep
the occupancy rates high) will turn this business into a money-generating monster for the Society for Venturism and
our cryonics community. All of our dreams of having a popular magazine known world-wide, an organization whose
members have the resources to get the word out & grab the ear of the mass media, a first-class museum "of the future"
(this is near and dear to my heart), a park with the sculptured likenesses of the greatest contributors to the
cryonics field (also an idea dear to my heart), plans and means to make sure all members get a quality suspension when
the time comes, a legal defense force for the cryonics movement, a big lodge-style headquarters/rec center to be the
center of Ventureville, an Olympic-sized indoor/outdoor swimming pool, and a top notch cryonics community we can shout
to the world about, and be damn proud of (as the news/documentary crews descend upon us and we become world famous).

We intend to be "the place" for cryonicist and transhumanist groups across the nation & world to hold conferences (at
very economical rates). The Society for Venturism (from its Ventureville HQ) will become one of the most preeminent
immortalist powers in the world, and a primary goal will be to build bridges with other religious organizations. In
cooperation with other major and minor transhumanist/cryonicist groups we will move toward the kind of world we all
want. The lodge business will be the financial engine to drive us forward in ways other transhumanist organizations
can only dream about.

To this end Dave is carrying out a major "in-house" public relations campaign to win over the local community. The
Mayer Fire Department, Sheriff's Dept., Chamber of Commerce, Realtor's Group, Senior Citizens organization, you name
it, get the red carpet rolled out for them and for very little, or for free get to hold their meetings here. With the
aesthetic power of this place, believe me, it is an invitation they heartily accept. And we have given out a large
number of (one night here on us!) gift certificates to local charities and government organizations. Our hope is that
these people and organizations will see us as the good people which we are, and worthy of their friendship and support
when the cryonics community question raises its head. We don't want a scene here straight out of a Frankenstein movie
where the local villagers, armed with pitch forks and flaming torches, burn us out for "playing God!" And in 21st
century Arizona, instead of pitch forks and torches, they use underhanded bills and dad-burned political scheming (ask
Alcor)! But I have a feeling Dave will have seduced with kindness, all the potential opposition long before anything
like that can actually stop us from our ultimate goals.

His plans for Ventureville are not a big secret by any means; in fact, there was a mention of it a number of months
ago in the Arizona Republic. People around here are aware of it, but they just shrug their shoulders and view it as
being simply the eccentric interest of the owner. After the first week-long Alcor standby training session here, I
overheard some housekeepers talking amongst each other and saying "those cryonics people were really nice."
Considering what they have said about some of our guests I can say I was very happily surprised. And believe me; what
those women see and hear gets out into the community at large.

I will tell you this much about David Pizer. There are "can-do" people and "can't-do" people in this world, and he
belongs to the former group, not the latter. I have seen so many posts and threads on Cryonet and the Extropy list
where people create all sorts of "pie in the sky" ideas, but of course nothing is done about making them a reality
because the determination, skills and money are just not there. Well, folks, this gentleman ain't like that. He
comes up with a "crazy" idea, sets it as a goal, and then actually does it. If only we could all follow his example.

Dave is just the sort of man you want at the head of an organization and community where there could be storms
brewing. This is a friendly and yet tough as titanium nails man, who will ferociously fight for what he views is
right and in his best interest. He is an extremely battle-hardened veteran of business and legal streetfights, and he
is willing to use his hard-won experience and skills on your behalf when you are a Venturist, and/or a Ventureville
community member. Dave has witnessed over the years many tragic occurrences where a person who had signed up for
cryonics, had their "friends" and relatives either stop them from being suspended, or ripped into their trusts and
wills to actually have them unfrozen. This horrified and enraged Dave to the point of him making it one of his life's
goals to protect others from such a terrible fate. One of these days I will get Dave a "Don't tread on me!" T-shirt,
because it would be very appropriate.

They say every "good man has a great woman behind him." And that is very true with Trudy, Dave's terrific wife. But
if you know her as well as I do, you would know she really isn't *behind" Dave all that much! lol She is a great
person and definitely an alpha female to Dave's alpha male. I would say without question Dave's best "business deal"
was getting married to her. Spending time talking to Trudy and seeing her with the animals is definitely one of the
reasons to come out here. And she happens to be one of the world's greatest cooks. Really!

I hope Dave is with us at least another twenty years, if not more, before he has to go "into the tank." We need him
to get everything established and going in the best way possible. If he dies within the next few years it would be
inconceivable (don't die Dave!). I have heard some of the stories of vicious infighting among /transhumanist/general
business boards of directors when the strong founding leader dies, and I do not want that there. But as long as we
have our original founding emperor, we will be just fine. I imagine Dave one day on his deathbed in a way like the
emperor skeksi in the film "The Dark Crystal." And as in the film, when the scepter goes to someone else (even the
board) the trouble will start. But Dave does his best (almost) to take care of himself and so I expect him to live a
long time. In fact, if advances progress as well as some among the knowledgeable claim, he might live just long
enough to have medical technology "boost him" into the realm of indefinite lifespan. We shall see.

We are extremely proud of PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY magazine. It got off to a fairly slow start, but now with our major
campaign to find new distributors I can tell things are beginning to really take off. Dr. Mike Perry, our editor-in-
chief, is to be commended for his efforts for not only editing but writing for us, too. Mike is a perfectionist and
it sure shows in the final product. Dr. Perry, I thank you.

I am tired as the managing editor of asking people to write articles and being turned down (but there are some great
exceptions out there). I realize we live in busy times, but please catch a glimpse of our vision. We are not doing
this to "preach to the choir" but instead to tell the world about what we have to offer! Every cryonicist should
subscribe to PI, not so much for him or herself, but so they can give away the issue to someone who they feel would be
open to our ideas. David Pizer is already a multi-millionaire, and he's doing this more than anything so he can help
the rest of you. He's offering the tool, but you have to be willing to pick it up.

The breeding program here (for the horses, not humans, though that would not be a bad idea, lol) with the Friesian
horses is going to be incredible. I realize some of you might not be familiar with the Friesian breed. They are
GORGEOUS (generally jet black) horses with the massive build of a draft horse. This is the same kind of horse
medieval knights rode on as they butchered each other (and the poor peasants) in the name of God and country! But
with the laid back attitude of these horses you would never know it. When we have beautiful foals prancing around the
arena the guests are going to be making special trips to the barn area just to see them. I really look forward to
eating Friesian foal steak sandwiches for lunch every day.

With the focus David and Trudy are putting on this, I expect conversations about cryonics to go something like this a
decade from now, "cryonics, oh, you mean those folks who love to breed those beautiful giant black horses, and also
want to be frozen in the hope they can be brought back?" Yep, it will be something like that. And I want it in my
contract that upon reanimation I will be given one Friesian Pegasus which can actually fly. Now, I don't want one
that just "looks good" but doesn't actually fly. Who wants that? Dave, please remember this!

We have a saddlebred horse here by the name of Reuben who if he were human would be the meanest bully in his
classroom. He would chase around the smallest of the three horses we have, to viciously bite and torment the poor
animal. To get this horse's respect I had to get into a staring contest with him (I won) so he would not try to
bully me. But the new alpha female horse we just got will not tolerate any of his misbehavior. She bit him back hard
and chased him around the arena to Reuben's shock and horror. It was nice seeing him get what he deserved. : )

Horses are not just the only animal Dave and Trudy love to have with them. They are dog lovers as well. Albert (my
unofficial little brother) is a jet-black Dane with the sweetest disposition you could ever imagine. If I'm having a
hard day he will put somehow sense this and put his big head in my lap. He's a laidback guy who loves a good nap and
will eat anything in sight. The newest Dane, Blaze, is just the opposite in disposition. She is a whirlwind of
hyperactive energy that can be overwhelmingly affectionate at times where that is not really desired. But she may
grow out of this stage (hopefully!). Much smaller in scale is Carlata, a very energetic and playful Pomeranian ball
of fur with two eyes. With a pole and some duct tape, you could turn her into a dust mop!

There are definite job opportunities here for cryonicists. All we ask from you is fanatical devotion and that you
take an oath of celibacy. That's all! Down the road we may also need an assortment of goons, thugs, hooligans, and
mercenaries, but only if civilization falls and we need to straighten everything out around here the "old-school
Chicago" way. So if you are a goon, thug, hooligan or mercenary, please hold off on sending us your resume until the
need clearly arises.

The Creekside Preserve property is something very special. Visitors are amazed when they go behind the lodge and
discover our "lost valley" creek bed which is full of tall trees and green bushes. Children, pets and parents love to
walk the creek and explore its many nooks and crannies. As one older citizen of Mayer said to me, "this is a very
special patch of God's Earth." I like to think there is just a touch of Middle Earth down there.

I encourage anyone curious about us to visit fairly soon, because if you wait several years, you won't realize all the
incredible changes it has gone through. And so if you are planning your future retirement/relocation, please come by
for the red-carpet tour. And if you have good-hearted, at least fairly good-looking daughters in their late twenties
to mid-thirties who are going to be living with you, *WELL, HEY*, Mark (my co-manager) and I will send you plane
tickets to come on over (but first we must get pictures of them and legal written agreements of intention to marry)!!
It's the very least we can do for you. : )

I don't bite, and as far as I know Mark isn't a vampire, either (but he could be a dhampire...), so don't be shy when
it comes to paying us a visit. I'm really looking forward to showing the the place off to Cryonet folks who
eventually visit us, not to mention my own friends and family currently back in Alaska.

Right before sunset or sunrise I will take you to the very top of the big hill overlooking our property, so you can
share with me one my favorite things about this place. If you remember anything else, you will remember that.


Happy trails to everyone,
whatever terrestrial or extra-terrestrial paths you may travel on,

John Grigg
Creekside Manager
Managing Editor, Physical Immortality magazine

P.S. (For Steve Bridge) I really did try to contain myself with my urge to put "!!! : ) !!! lol LOL!!! : ) !!!!"
everywhere!!!, err..., I mean everywhere. : )

[Bruce Klein]

Why Life Extension
Continuing Interview with David Pizer by Bruce Klein


David Pizer


Bruce Klein

Former Alcor Vice President, current owner of the Creekside Preserve/Ventureville (Mayer, AZ), David Pizer grants ImmInst a continuing (more above in this thread) interview about Life Extension and Physical Immortality

Klein What do you do?

Pizer: For a living??? I am age 63. Most of my life I was in the auto
upholstery business & I bought and sold real estate for myself. Also, I
have owned a few small resorts.

When and how did you come to focus on life extension?

Pizer: I heard about it around 1980 or so. I was calling on a customer and he read me (and several other guys in the group) an article from the newspaper about people who were freezing their members at legal death in hopes of being stored until science could unfreeze them and fix them to continue living. It was supposed to be presented as funny. The other guys in the group laughed, and I said "Can I have that article, please."

I took the article back to my office and called info for the number of the group and then called them and signed up over the phone right then. Hung up and called my agent and bought the insurance.



Creekside Preserve - Mayer, AZ


How long do you want to live and why?

Pizer: Forever. Because death is the negation of life and everything positive. (By "everything" I mean every thing anywhere, ever.)


What are you doing to promote longer life?

Pizer: Quit smoking 30 years ago. Try to eat in a healthy way. Exercise 30 minutes a day. Keep a happy outlook on live. Be careful in my life as in driving or where I go and how. Take supplements. Hired Mayo Clinic as my medical provider and have 4 minor check ups a year and 1 major one a year.

Does death equal oblivion?

Pizer: By definition. Since life is relevant. Everything for a person is relevant to him/her. If he/she doesn't exist, for him/her, nothing else does either.

Are you signed up for cryonics and why?

Pizer: Yes. To try to escape death.


Bruce Klein at David Pizer's Creekside Preserve (Lodge and Cabins) in Mayer, AZ (less than 1hr north of Alcor)

Have you had any problems in talking with friends/family about Immortalism?

I am a pretty determined guy. No one is going to confront me in a serious way as long as I am healthy.

Will life extension disrupt the 'natural' cycle of life?

Pizer: I hope so. "Natural" is often the same as "bad." We need to quit having so many offspring until we can get into other solar systems, and or start using some better type of energy on a regular basis.

Will genetic engineering lead to peril for civilization?

Pizer: Just the opposite.

Will there be developed a pill to stop aging?

Pizer: The will be a protocol. More complicated then just a pill. But it will have the same effect.



What happens after death?

Pizer: Nothing.

What inspired you to explore life extension?

Pizer: Desire to extend my life.

How would you define “physical immortality”?

Pizer: Living forever in the here and now.

Is physical immortality only for the rich?

Pizer: Being rich probably would make it easier. But a poor person (but determined) person could also do things.

1. Get rich.
2. If you can't get rich, the prioritize your spending and make immortality your number one
priority at the expense of most everything else if necessary.
3. Buy permanent life insurance while you are young.
4. Almost everyone (or moderate heath or better) living in the free world
can find a way to obtain the prospect of immortality.
5. When immortality becomes commonplace then the welfare system will make it available to
everyone.


Creekside Preserve - Mayer, AZ

Will there be an overpopulation problem?

Pizer: There is now. But "the problem" is caused by many things, not just too many people. We need more space. We need to use renewable forms of energy. We can develop that, we can populate to the size of the space we can develop and the energy we can develop. The universe is a big place.

Will there be boredom?

Pizer: There is boredom now. We are responsible for our own boredom and non-boredom (excitement). If we can create excitement in our lives now, we can continue to do that expanding on the things and reasons we use at present.

Are immortalist being selfish in wanting longer lifespans?

Pizer: No. Those of us who want to become immortal also are willing to make it available to all and to make the place where we live a better place, forever.

The only way it would be selfish would be if an immortal went out of the way to keep immortality from others.

Better questions = Are non-immortals being stupid in wanting to die?

What Causes aging?

Pizer: It's a natural process that is built into us. It came to be like that because it was better for the race as a whole to have the elders die off and create space in the ecosystem for new mutations. This system allows humans
to be dynamic and to evolve (as a race) in such a way that they can compete for space in the world with other evolving species of animals. Those who don't evolve and die off within their own race, insure that their race will eventually become inferior and then their race (and they within it) will eventually all die completely.

The only way to overcome this problem if we make ourselves immortal is to also take control of our own evolution. So that we are immortal, but we also are evolving and changing ourselves as we go. Before genetic engineering, this could only be done by mutations in offspring, coupled with death of the elders making room within the econitch for the offspring to replace the older and obsolete (as relevant to competing with other species) members of the race.

Can aging be cured?

Pizer: No question about it. It is merely an engineering problem.

Can people be talked into wanting life extension?

Pizer: Yes, in principle at least. You have to "talk" them into understanding the way things really are first. If you can do that, it falls into place. But some people cannot fact reality and so they won't let go of the notions about heavens that they hold. The just don't have the courage.

What books & organizations do you suggest?

Pizer: Venturists, ImmInst & suggest Ralph's Journey to those in the category in the above question. Also, Alcor, Cryonics Institute, and the PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY magazine.

When will nanotech arrive?

Pizer: It's starting now. I will come in little spurts every year. Full Blown nanotech, the kind that can bring physical immortality will take 100 years.

Describe the world in which you want to live.

Pizer: Like this one. Always changing and impossible to describe.

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The Venturists have launched a new quarterly magazine called Physical Immortality designed to be sold from news stands, in order to educate a wider public about the opportunities offered by their philosophies and beliefs. More...

More from David Pizer:

Since we have a nucleus of cryonicists living and working here we all spend our spare time working on the world's fastest-growing cryonics magazine PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY. We have recently found some new distributors and we are now signing up special agents that sell subscriptions to waiting rooms like in doctors' offices and libraries and such. Mike Perry has done a splendid job as editor and the magazine gets better every quarter. We appreciate all the compliments and hope we can continue to please everyone. If you are not getting PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY you can sign up by sending $24 to The Venturists at 11255 State Route 69, Mayer Arizona 86333. you can also buy a full page advertisement in the magazine for $200 per quarter. What a great way to reach so many Immortalists. If you have a book or some other items to promote let us know. PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY makes a great gift for that friend of yours that you want to introduce to cryonics. Four quartes for $24 - what a bargain!


Included at no extra charge with your stay at the Creekside Lodge, you can visit our beautiful Friesian horses at our stable on the east end of the property. With supervision you can groom the Friesians, feed them apples or carrots, and even ride them around the arena. They are available for riding from 8:30 to 10:30 AM, Wednesday through Sunday.


David & Trudy Pizer's Friesian

The BEST NEWS is that Trudy and I have also started another fabulous, new business here at the Creekside. We are raising, showing, breeding and selling the world's most beautiful animals, Friesian Horses. These are the large, black, beautiful horses that the knights galloped into battle on. They also pull(ed) the carriages for the Kings and Queens of Europe for centuries. These great steeds have the very very long manes and hair from above their hooves called "feathers." They sell for $25,000 to $100,000 for brood mares, and approved stallions (only a handful in the world) sell for over $1,000,000 each. Our goal is to reach 100 brood mares and have 100 babies each year. It is healthy for these horses to have one baby per year for 20 years. When you are visiting our facility please visit our equestrian center.

[Bruce Klein]

At Creekside, David Pizer and I walked over to pet the beautiful Friesian horses.. I can see why they will likely become very popular.



The bold majestic Friesian comes from and are of the Netherlands known as Friesland. This is an area rich in agriculture and has expansive grasslands. The country is an old one dating back to approximately 500bc, hence the history of the Friesian is long.

The Friesian horse is a descendent of the equus robustus ( meaning large horse). At approximately the 16th century Arabian blood was introduced and gave the Friesian the beautiful high action which is sought after. The Andalusian blood was also introduced.

The resulting horse was a very strong bold steed which carried many a soldier off to war...
http://www.sunshineh...es/history.html

[reason]

Larger contention for me - I can't help but see that as a Bad Idea.

Reason
Founder, Longevity Meme
reason@longevitymeme.org
http://www.longevitymeme.org

[Bruce Klein]

Creating Venturism as a religion sends confusing signals, I concur.

[thefirstimmortal]

Creating Venturism as a religion sends confusing signals, I concur.

Dissent, Legally speaking, the move was a stroke of genius.

[advancedatheist]

Here is the latest addition to the Pizer family, a colt born in the Creekside Preserve stable sometime between Monday night, April 18 and Tuesday morning, April 19:



The baby boy with his mother, the Friesian mare Fedska:



Both mother and son have been doing well as of Wednesday.

[Bruce Klein]

Beautiful.. thank you, Mark, for posting.